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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dysko on February 23, 2008, 05:00:31 am

Title: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Dysko on February 23, 2008, 05:00:31 am
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23302483/

One of the 21 B-2 stealth bombers crashed on take-off from Guam. Both pilots ejected safely.

Each of that planes costs 1,2 billions $.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 23, 2008, 05:15:10 am
I reckon the pilots should work off the debt in the acid mines.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 23, 2008, 06:28:32 am
's not clear why, yet, but the B-2 is a difficult aircraft to crash due to pilot error: the onboard fly-by-wire systems have limiters that prevent "overflying" the aircraft, and the B-2's limiters, unlike those of more high-performance planes like the B-1B or fighters, are very nearly ironclad. You can't push them, they don't work that way, because due to its flying wing shape a B-2 without positive control is something no sane pilot contemplates. You don't do spin or stall recovery in this plane, you eject.

On the other hand, the B-2 is an extremely difficult aircraft to fly without the extensive computer support. A total electrical shutdown is a major problem, again, due to the flying wing shape. The computers make a multitude of minor adjustments every minute to keep it stable and flying well, and with them, the aircraft is very stable, easy to fly, and actually quite agile for its size and speed. Without the computers it becomes inherently unstable and extremely demanding.

Because it crashed on takeoff, the possiblity exists of FOD being at fault, and I don't really know how well the B-2 responds to a lost engine situation, but it does have several of them, and it is rated to be able to fly with only half.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 23, 2008, 06:40:27 am
John Travolta played a part in this i reckon. How many computers does the eurofighter have? It's flight profile is so unstable it would just fall out of the sky if they failed. :) 
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Mefustae on February 23, 2008, 07:42:52 am
John Travolta played a part in this i reckon.
Nah, man. It's Christian ****ing Slater. He lost it!
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: BloodEagle on February 23, 2008, 10:58:37 am
 :wtf:

4.76%

--------------------

On a side note, how in the living Hell does a 1.2 billion dollar bomber just not work!?
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: G0atmaster on February 23, 2008, 11:09:28 am
It was running Windows.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Dysko on February 23, 2008, 11:31:18 am
4.76%
But 5% looks cooler :P

On a side note, how in the living Hell does a 1.2 billion dollar bomber just not work!?
It was running Windows.
It was running Windows Vista to be precise :lol:

Some time ago, at uni I was talking with a friend about the F-22's avionic-related problems. When I returned home, I photoshopped this (I know, I'm crappy at Photoshop :nervous:):
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd9/DDySkO/avionicaf22.jpg)

BTW, it could have been FOD (Foreign Object Digestion, when something is sucked in by the engine), electric failure... causes of the accident are still unknown.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: FS2_playa613 on February 23, 2008, 11:38:31 am
John Travolta played a part in this i reckon. How many computers does the eurofighter have? It's flight profile is so unstable it would just fall out of the sky if they failed. :) 


the Typhoon has 75 computers onboard
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: haloboy100 on February 23, 2008, 11:39:39 am
It was running Windows.
LOL!

Seriously though, why put stealth bombers all the way out there anyway? It sounds like America is looking for a fight.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 23, 2008, 11:48:18 am
On a side note, how in the living Hell does a 1.2 billion dollar bomber just not work!?

When you have something as obscenely complicated and intricate as a B-2 Spirit, something will break eventually. Someone's going to have to bend over for the brass in this incident. The pilots, the maintenance workers, an engineer, someone is going down.

Not only that, but the B-2 fleet will almost certainly be grounded until the USAF is absolutely sure this won't happen again. We don't have the tooling to build any more, and it's almost as bad as long a Space Shuttle. We're going to have to settle for other bombers as the entire B-2 program is scrutinized from top to bottom.

@DySkO: That blue screen is a Windows 9x one. I'm not even sure if Vista has blue screens (Windows XP did, but under default settings it would instantly reboot instead of displaying the screen).
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on February 23, 2008, 11:49:55 am
BTW, it could have been FOD (Foreign Object Digestion, when something is sucked in by the engine), electric failure... causes of the accident are still unknown.
The causes could be known, but classified... Most things regarding the B2 are level Omega, just like those damn Comm Nodes.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 23, 2008, 12:12:54 pm
Broken Arrow, or no fuel? You can vote, Right Now! :)
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: haloboy100 on February 23, 2008, 12:43:03 pm
Isn't a broken arrow a crashed nuclear bomber? Cause It says that b-2 wasn't carrying munitions, let alone nukes.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 23, 2008, 12:58:25 pm
<conspiracy>or was it ;) ?</conspiracy>
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 23, 2008, 01:06:22 pm
<conspiracy>or was it ;) ?</conspiracy>

"Now, I'm going to go over this again, pilots. You MUST wear your tinfoil helmet linings. That's an order."
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Dysko on February 23, 2008, 01:12:09 pm
Not only that, but the B-2 fleet will almost certainly be grounded until the USAF is absolutely sure this won't happen again. We don't have the tooling to build any more, and it's almost as bad as long a Space Shuttle. We're going to have to settle for other bombers as the entire B-2 program is scrutinized from top to bottom.
That's what will surely happen, the whole F-15 fleet has been recently grounded due to a F-15 breaking apart in flight.

@DySkO: That blue screen is a Windows 9x one. I'm not even sure if Vista has blue screens (Windows XP did, but under default settings it would instantly reboot instead of displaying the screen).
I just googled "blue screen death", and I used the first high resolution image I found :p But probably you are right, before I formatted my laptop, I had Vista on it. It had lots of problems, but I never saw a blue screen of death.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Nuclear1 on February 23, 2008, 01:21:20 pm
1) Yes the B2 fleet will get grounded, just like the F15 fleet was a few months ago.
2) Given how dependant the B2 is on electronics for flight, an electrical failure may be the most likely culprit. In that case the crew chief and the ground crew will catch a hell of a lot of flak for not finding the problem beforehand.
3) FOD. We lost an E3 to a flock of Canadian geese in Alaska, and single sparrows are more than capable of brining down most fighters. If it was wildlife, BASH will take the flak.

Anything on the flightline is a hazard. In which case, somebody has been doing their Foreign Object Detection walks right.
4) Pilot error. The pilots lose their situational awareness and don't notice something wrong on their instruments. We lost either a Galaxy or a Globemaster at Dover for that exact reason.
5) ****ing Batman
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: karajorma on February 23, 2008, 01:23:22 pm
Not only that, but the B-2 fleet will almost certainly be grounded until the USAF is absolutely sure this won't happen again. We don't have the tooling to build any more, and it's almost as bad as long a Space Shuttle. We're going to have to settle for other bombers as the entire B-2 program is scrutinized from top to bottom.
That's what will surely happen, the whole F-15 fleet has been recently grounded due to a F-15 breaking apart in flight.

The time to invade is now! :p
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: DeepSpace9er on February 23, 2008, 06:30:10 pm
The 1.2billion dollar price tag takes into account R&D and not the actual unit cost minus the development costs.. we need moar!
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Kosh on February 23, 2008, 07:46:56 pm
All this talk of how dependant modern fighters/bombers are on their electronics packages reminds me of the Viper Mk. VII...........
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: NGTM-1R on February 23, 2008, 07:54:05 pm
The Viper Mk VII would have been perfectly safe if the damn fools hadn't connected the comms to the critical systems.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2008, 09:23:01 pm
As evidenced by the fact that they're in widespread use after some brief retrofits.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Kosh on February 23, 2008, 09:29:08 pm
I thought it was because they ripped out the nav program that had the security hole....
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Polpolion on February 23, 2008, 09:36:38 pm
4.76%
But 5% looks cooler :P

On a side note, how in the living Hell does a 1.2 billion dollar bomber just not work!?
It was running Windows.
It was running Windows Vista to be precise :lol:

Some time ago, at uni I was talking with a friend about the F-22's avionic-related problems. When I returned home, I photoshopped this (I know, I'm crappy at Photoshop :nervous:):
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd9/DDySkO/avionicaf22.jpg)

BTW, it could have been FOD (Foreign Object Digestion, when something is sucked in by the engine), electric failure... causes of the accident are still unknown.

Minus the obvious, is that really what the F-22 cockpit looks like? :wtf:
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: General Battuta on February 23, 2008, 09:43:44 pm
I thought it was because they ripped out the nav program that had the security hole....

Well, thus the retrofits. Presumably they also de-networked some of the flight systems, since the Cylons can apparently get into networked systems very easily.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Dysko on February 24, 2008, 03:55:17 am
Minus the obvious, is that really what the F-22 cockpit looks like? :wtf:
No, only what you can see in MFDs and in the HUD is from the real Raptor cockpit, and I cut and pasted them in another generic cockpit :lol:

Seriously talking, I just googled "f-22 cockpit", and again I chose the highest resolution image available. I think that the real F-22 cockpit is still classified due to the high tech involved.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 24, 2008, 04:07:40 am
All of the sims i've played over the years with  the f22 as flyable all have really similar cockpit setups. From ace combat to the original f22 sim worth about £2 [incidentally my first ever online deathmatch] so i don't see how it could be classified. :yes: 
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Mobius on February 24, 2008, 04:18:42 am
All of the sims i've played over the years with  the f22 as flyable all have really similar cockpit setups. From ace combat to the original f22 sim worth about £2 [incidentally my first ever online deathmatch] so i don't see how it could be classified. :yes: 

But in Ace Combat you can see only the part of the cockpit that is close to the HUD.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 24, 2008, 04:33:00 am
The mfd layout etc is nigh on identical to the other games. And ace combat series has more endorsements from manufacturers than any other i can think of off the top of my head :) anyone been to an air show? Or maybe a tour of the production facility? That would be cool.   
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Mobius on February 24, 2008, 05:02:49 am
Uhm...Dysko :nod:
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Dysko on February 24, 2008, 05:06:39 am
The mfd layout etc is nigh on identical to the other games. And ace combat series has more endorsements from manufacturers than any other i can think of off the top of my head :) anyone been to an air show? Or maybe a tour of the production facility? That would be cool.   
I highly doubt Ace Combat can be considered a reliable source :P Also the other F-22 sims (especially Novalogic's ones) cannot be considered very reliable.

I'll look on my airplane magazines if I can find a photo of the real cockpit.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Mobius on February 24, 2008, 05:38:52 am
The models of Ace Combat(starting from AC04) are reliable.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 24, 2008, 06:04:43 am
I thought as much. Did you take your title from 04 Mobius?
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Mobius on February 24, 2008, 07:29:20 am
You mean my nickname...yeah I did.

Lt.Gen. came from Ace Combat 2.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 24, 2008, 07:44:17 am
Yellow squadron god bless' em. They knew how to party! Any ideas on the level of reprimand the b2 pilots will get?
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Nuke on February 24, 2008, 08:31:03 am
3) FOD. We lost an E3 to a flock of Canadian geese in Alaska, and single sparrows are more than capable of brining down most fighters. If it was wildlife, BASH will take the flak.

i saw the smoke from that crash, i was living in anchorage at the time and didnt live to far from the base.
Title: Re: 5% of the B-2 fleet has been lost
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 24, 2008, 10:40:11 am
I think the equipment needed to make the B-2 has been destroyed, so no more will be built.