Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Zalardis on March 08, 2008, 04:06:56 am
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JUST Because of its totally emerged beam cannon. :ick: :ick:
If GTVA could develop a good battle strategy，such as post many small battle groups consist of bomber,fighter and light class cruiser to cover the bomber to take the turret down.Sathanas is only a huge target……
Also because all beam at the forward,Sathanas must always change its shipbow to focus the fire power on the cruiser direction with its poor maneuverability
:no: :no: :no:
What i want to say is Sathanas is really limited if it facing a mass battle
If the colossus can hold its fire opening in a high rate with a long time, I believe that colossus is able to defeat serval Destoryers at the same time，eg:the SD Ravana,while the Sathanas would be decimated :yes: :yes:
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If you attack it from the back, it will turn around. :P
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The Sathanas is a microcosm of the Shivan war machine in a lot of ways. Recall that there is essentially no purpose to a defensive Shivan warship: they have nothing to defend. It is designed to make full use of their main advantages: superior subspace technologies and devestating, rapid-fire beam cannon. The Sathanas is blitzkrieg and manuver warfare on a vast scale. It will not be attacked. It will do the attacking. It cannot be pinned down: its many engine systems and superior subspace drive ensure it will be difficult to stop or keep up with, and its massive firepower ensures that you cannot block its way out for long or trap it in an engagement with another craft.
Yet when all else fails, as it did in A Monster In The Mist, it can have real difficulty dealing with a single inconveniently placed opponent not a twentith of its size.
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Theoretically, you could destroy a Sath through good tactics or deployment of forces. However, in practice, the Shivans are more than likely going to summon a few Demons or Ravanas to take out your taskforce.
Sathanas jugs may be a bad juggernaut on its own, but in the actual battlefield, filled with hundreds of thousands of Shivan fighters, bombers, and a multitude of support warships, there is no sure way of taking one down.
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Sathanas jugs may be a bad juggernaut on its own, but in the actual battlefield, filled with hundreds of thousands of Shivan fighters, bombers, and a multitude of support warships, there is no sure way of taking one down.
Unless you sneek up on one...
let's say a few wings of stealth fighters armed with Trebuchets to disarm the monster (concentrating on AAA and Flak), and once that's done, a conventional Ursa/Boanerges/Sekhmet raid against the main beams.
As soon as the beams are down, the Phoenicia could hold it back* :p
*I cannot guarantee that the Sath won't launch 250 Nahemas and Seraphims, with endless fighter escort to pwn the Hecate.
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ppor hecate... :(
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:( Yeah...
(The following is for the Universe, not the game)
I think that some Infyrnos, fired into its fighterbay (Damn, that hole is huge, make it at least 20) could incapacitate it.
Or you could take a risk and fly into it yourself. How far would you get? Think Death Star II :drevil:
The only problem will be the hundreds of fighters on your tail. Maximize your rear shields.
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And the thousands of Shivans with integral plasma weapons inside.
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The weapons used in fighter-to-fighter combat in FS are tac-nuke grade according to FS1. The Shivan equivalent of small arms wouldn't do **** to a fighter.
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You're probably right. It would, however, be really cool.
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The weapons used in fighter-to-fighter combat in FS are tac-nuke grade according to FS1. The Shivan equivalent of small arms wouldn't do **** to a fighter.
Maybe they have nukes inside too. :P
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Maybe they have nukes inside too. :P
Nah... I don't think the innards of the ship would be that strong.
Perhaps someone could try and make a model of the inside of a ship. Start off with a Moloch and go to larger ships as you gain experience.
I would do it myself, but it's probably too complicated for a first try at modelling.
EDIT: Colonol Dekker's title (http://youtube.com/watch?v=RthZgszykLs) looks like a good place to start gathering inspiration.
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Derek Smart wanted to do that.
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?? Huh? I can't see it on this cWap browser. What's it say?
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I'm willing to bet that the Sathi has 5 times the fighter compliment that the collosus does, and if GTVA command was smart enough to send a massive bomber wave at the sath, then the shivans would be smart enough to sortie an intercept flight of say... 200 dragons.
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I'm willing to bet that the Sathi has 5 times the fighter compliment that the collosus does, and if GTVA command was smart enough to send a massive bomber wave at the sath, then the shivans would be smart enough to sortie an intercept flight of say... 200 dragans.
You'd think the Shivans could have come up with some more fighters in Bearbaiting.
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I'm willing to bet that the Sathi has 5 times the fighter compliment that the collosus does, and if GTVA command was smart enough to send a massive bomber wave at the sath, then the shivans would be smart enough to sortie an intercept flight of say... 200 dragans.
You'd think the Shivans could have come up with some more fighters in Bearbaiting.
You'd also think the GTVA could've came up with more ships to escort their 20 year, several billion dollar, 30000 people investment, aka the Colossus.
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I'm willing to bet that the Sathi has 5 times the fighter compliment that the collosus does, and if GTVA command was smart enough to send a massive bomber wave at the sath, then the shivans would be smart enough to sortie an intercept flight of say... 200 dragans.
You'd think the Shivans could have come up with some more fighters in Bearbaiting.
You'd also think the GTVA could've came up with more ships to escort their 20 year, several billion dollar, 30000 people investment.
Or someone really trusts Alpha 1.
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I'm willing to bet that the Sathi has 5 times the fighter compliment that the collosus does, and if GTVA command was smart enough to send a massive bomber wave at the sath, then the shivans would be smart enough to sortie an intercept flight of say... 200 dragans.
You'd think the Shivans could have come up with some more fighters in Bearbaiting.
You'd also think the GTVA could've came up with more ships to escort their 20 year, several billion dollar, 30000 people investment.
Or someone really trusts Alpha 1.
Which is why neither the GTVA nor Shivans are smart enough to deploy escorts proportionate to a ship's importance.
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That's down to game engine limitations.
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Or someone really trusts Alpha 1.
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Yeah, they should just clone Alpha 1 ten thousand times! :D
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Thats what i hate about :v:. They don't pay attention to small stuff that matters. Like escorting a 6-kilometer long super soaker with one ****ing wing of bombers, even though the C has it's own fighter compliment that wasn't even launched at all
I actually wouldn't be surprised if the engine could handle that.
*sigh* i guess you can't be perfect at everything :rolleyes:. And at least they didn't try and make too much stuff and ruin the game.
Mouse over "Too much" and you'll see what i mean...
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Haloboy, I would say that there are almost certainly gameplay considerations which led V to make the decision to place Alpha 1 and his three fellow bombers in the starring role.
I'm sure they paid attention to the small stuff that matters (take note of the level of detail they put into the universe), but it's always going to come second to fun. Going the other route causes Battle of Endor syndrome where the player really just doesn't make a difference.
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I like it when the player doesn't make a difference. I'd rather BOE syndrome then invincible mob syndrome :P
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I like it when combat is almost balanced without the player, and you need to do is turn the tide slightly in favor of your allies.
BOE Missions are OK once in a while when they're necessary for plot purposes etc, but not every mission should be a BOE mission.
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You know the shivans and theyr ships and tactics really remind me of the WW2 German armies and Panzergroups and its blitzkrieg tactics. I mean there you have an army that was designed for one thing in mind rapid conquest of the enemies teritories. When it came down to actualy defending they kinda sucked really bad right up untilll 1942 or 43 can remember exactly when theyr armed forces were beginning to go onto a defensive battle stile. But by this time it was too late for them. Anyway to be more to the point the Sath is one huge monster.
While i do agree that it must have at least the fighter/bommbver complement of the big C i do not believe it to have a decive numerical advanteage from thios regard. Maybe another 40 or 50 ships but that is it.
Also The sath is really a superb fighting machine when it comed down to what it does and that is smash through enemy defence lines . And that is it. It was not designed with "go hunt that ship down" type of thinking. Whant to know why??? Cuz with all those engines and fighter/bommber complement that thing need at least an equal amount of fuel as the Collie needs if not more.
So it is not a long range tipe of ship . So to answear the raised question the Sath is a bad SD when it comes down to engaging and destroyng multiple ships at once. But because of its ovewhealming beams it doesnt have much of a problem with that. Not unless you have destroyers armed with at least 2 beams of similar calliber. Then the Sath is well its in a whole world of hurt. Cuz 3 destroyers comming at it form different vectors could in theory take it out before the sath has a chance to take them out.
But since the only other regional power that have proven to be a inconvinience and a small one at that is the GTVA with they super weak beams they dont have much to worry. Not for a while anyway.
There is only so much that the shivans can do to prevent a civ. or another power to rise up to theyr level and surpass them. And since the shivans seems to have been really stagnant during the past 8k years at least they must realize of course that the only thing keeping them allive is no longer they tech. superiority but rather they sheer numbers.
Think of the sath as a battering ram that smashed the enemies gates to allow soldiers to come in (in this case its massive fighter/bommber complement ) and cause panic in the enemi lines thus allowing the rest of the forces in this case Ravanas and Demens to come in and kill off the enemy and take the sistems.
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Also because all beam at the forward,Sathanas must always change its shipbow to focus the fire power on the cruiser direction with its poor maneuverability
:no: :no: :no:
True. But then again, which Shivan or GTVA ship could win a whole war alone? I think Sath is a tool made for one purpose: to get rid of anything that stands in front of it, be it a cruiser, a destroyer, or the Himalayas. There are plenty of other ship classes that cannot do this, but are fine for the other jobs at hand.
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I don't think the Sath is designed as a warship.
It's designed to get somewhere and roll over anything which tries to stop it. IMO, that's the most plausible explanation for both its design (and its shortcomings) and its actions.
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About no escorts. If you fail to disable the Sath's beam cannons in Bearbaiting, in the briefing of High Noon it tells you that the Sathanas destroyed their entire blockade with only ONE functional beam cannon.
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that is absolute bulls*** ! Not even the Sath can take out an entire blocade fleet with just one beam cannon . I mean come on there must have been dozens if not hundreds of bommbers at the blocade and they are telling me that not even on bommber managed to shoot of 2 helios at the blasted thing?? That is ridiculous. I mean it is clear that the whole thing doesnt go acording to common sense logic . but nevertheless....
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Maybe the Sath used almost all of its fighter and bomber complement on the blockade. Which could explain why it only deployed 8 Basilisks against the Collie.
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About no escorts. If you fail to disable the Sath's beam cannons in Bearbaiting, in the briefing of High Noon it tells you that the Sathanas destroyed their entire blockade with only ONE functional beam cannon.
I like how when you destroy all the Sath's beam cannons, the Colossus in the next mission still proclaims how hard she's got fighting against it. :lol:
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Canon is as canon does. You need to remember that the Shivans you fight and kill in nearly every single mission have to come from somewhere.
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They come from your mom.
JK, couldn't resist :D
I think we should all be thankful that things turned out the way they did or else :v: would develop the Darek Smart syndrome...
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Shh! Quiet down, already. The unspeakable name has already been mentioned too many times during the past few days. We're tempting fate. Don't push your luck.
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I think the worst that could happen is if he manages to [gasp]make a decent game[/gasp].
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Maybe the sath was just a HUGE expiremental jump drive housing... :doubt:
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I'd have to agree that the Sath was built primarily to do whatever it was the Shivans did to Capella and go wherever they went afterward, and as an uber-wtf-beam-kill-everything-in-its-path warship second.