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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Akalabeth Angel on March 12, 2008, 07:01:18 pm

Title: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 12, 2008, 07:01:18 pm
    I read one person mention he'd like to do a Battletech MOD, has anyone seriously considered this out of curiosity? I thought about it for a few minutes, but the problem in my mind would be the missions. And basically that any campaign would likely be pretty damn boring. Most Aerotech missions are "escort dropship to the planet".

   The battletech universe really focuses on ground combat, not spacecombat. And while there are cool warships, etcetera . . . the frequency of their meeting is fairly small and further most aerospace combat likely occurs around a jump point or near a planet. There's not really anything like contesting a system or what have you. The only era which seems like it might be interesting is the Star League era and the campaign by Kerensky against Amaris.

   The one benefit to such a mod is that there'd be a fairly large fanbase for potential players . . . but beyond that, meh.
   Just wondering what other people's thoughts were. This is not something I'm seriously entertaining, so everyone can save their "help other MODs first before starting new ones" schpeal.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on March 13, 2008, 12:49:37 am
Well.. there is the 'reborn Star League beating the s**t out of a Clan' event.

Reason why there aren't really any space combat in the space apart from the jump points or L-points and in the orbit over the planet is simply that the game (AFAIK) used roughly realistic space travel system. And due that it is almost impossible to engage the approaching ships except for single split-second firing pass.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 13, 2008, 02:37:43 am
Well.. there is the 'reborn Star League beating the s**t out of a Clan' event.

Reason why there aren't really any space combat in the space apart from the jump points or L-points and in the orbit over the planet is simply that the game (AFAIK) used roughly realistic space travel system. And due that it is almost impossible to engage the approaching ships except for single split-second firing pass.

   Yeah, for a game about giant Robots with minimal weapons ranges, Battletech tries to be pretty realistic.
   But even operation serpent, against the Smoke Jaguars, could be summed up in about 5 missions total. Let's see I think they fought pirates, then they fought Ghost Bear, then Smoke Jags 2-3 times and that's it. A person could extend it more of course . .. but these sorts of battles are pretty darn rare.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: nvsblmnc on March 13, 2008, 02:42:22 am
There have been mentions of space battles, though.  There are several references to WarShips and their weaponry, and in MW4 we heard about a skirmish between two DropShips.

In terms of IS ships, the Talon DropShip in particular looks to have been designed as a blockade runner to punch through system defenses as it's weapons are all fore- or aft-facing, unlike the Hrothgar or Overlords, which have near 360 firing arcs.

I think there's an opporunity here, but the universe would have to be twisted to allow for any really impressive battles.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: MT on March 14, 2008, 02:18:14 am
I've read a few BT novels myself and a few contain accounts on space engagements. The engagements are small since the Succession Wars saw much devastation on the industries that the building of warp capable ships became nearly impossible that such ships were practically off-limits for engaging. However, by the time of the Fedcom Civil War, Warship production started picking up and space engagements involving things bigger than dropships start to happen.

The ships mount (naval grade) lasers, gauss rifles/ railguns, LRMs and maybe PPCs. The dropships (Overlord, Talon, Hrothgar) are mounted ON these Warships are also heavily armed. Those weapons are not as powerful as beam cannons and they will probably provide a more FS1 type of combat. Since shields do not exist in BT, the game will be very FS1-ish.

The Clan war aside, there are many possible scenarios.
1) Pre-Star League Era (little info)
2) uprising by Amaris,
3) Succession Wars (1-3),
4) 4th Succession War,
5) Clan incursion,
6) Fedcom Civil War,
7) WoB Jihad.

The most promising ones are probably 2, 3 and 6 in terms of space combat, simply due to the availability of Warship type combatants. Otherwise it is limited to fighters and egg-shaped ships.


Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on March 14, 2008, 04:26:31 am
The most promising ones are probably 2, 3 and 6 in terms of space combat, simply due to the availability of Warship type combatants. Otherwise it is limited to fighters and egg-shaped ships.
Not really... IIRC (been ages since i read those books) but there were masses of 'aerodyne' dropships too (ie. basically normal shaped). And several classes (both spherical and aerydyne) of 'assault dropships' which were like miniature warships - smaller and without jump drive - and later on used to escort the real WarShips. Not to mention fighter carrier dropships etc. Basically there was a taboo was to attack the unarmed JumpShip which had almost irreplaceable jump drives in them. DropShips and fighters of all types were free game.

So from what i understood and remember...
1) No idea
2) (loads of) WarShips and fighters (essentially no assault DropShips)
3) 1st war.. WarShips, DropShips, fighters - High tech. In the rest the amount of WarShips steadily decreased to nil before 3rd and same was with high tech.
4) Pretty much the same as 3rd succession war - perhaps minimum amounts of new high tech..
5) For inner sphere... same as 4th war but with loads of high tech weapons.. no WarShips until the very end. Clans.. Ultra tech with pretty much all kinds of ships - though there was in the beginning sorta 'fair game' rule not to use WarShips as long as inner sphere didnt use/have them.
6) Everything with high tech.
7) No idea

And also if i'm not entirely wrong the naval grade weapons were strictly limited to true warships. All the rest (dropships, jumpships) fought with 'standard' issue weapons - same as the fighters that is.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 14, 2008, 04:56:29 am
7) No idea

And also if i'm not entirely wrong the naval grade weapons were strictly limited to true warships. All the rest (dropships, jumpships) fought with 'standard' issue weapons - same as the fighters that is.

       That's true except for the missiles . . . in the so-called Jihad era, some dropships have been outfitted with warship class missiles with nukes to basically take out a warship in dastardly sneak attacks (Q-ship type of thing).

       And yes, there are all sorts of dropships, aerodyne and spheroid. Though  my concern would be that most battles would not be more than a few missions per system. I mean, a person could stretch it out a little . .. . but for your average mission, planetary assault or raid or what not it's going to be pretty much the same every time. The challenging thing would be for the campaign designer to make it interesting imo.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 15, 2008, 12:45:59 am
From a fighter pilot's point of view, things can last a lot longer than you seem to think. On Tukkayid there was nearly continous air combat from Day Two until the end. Similarly in a lot of cases during the FedCom Civil War air and aerospace superiority was fiercely contested from beginning to end. During the Clan Invasion, those units that had aerospace fighters available operated them nearly nonstop, because for all the efforts the Clans put into their genetically engineered fighter pilots, the Inner Sphere's superior training programs and usually (much) greater combat experience gives them a hard edge that Clan pilots struggle to match even with their advanced fighters. It was common practice during the Clan Invasion for defending Inner Sphere forces to put guns on anything that could fly for ground-attack purposes, since usually an Inner Sphere force with a decent aerospace fighter component could gain local air superiority over a battlefield.

DropShips and WarShips rarely enter combat, and when they do, they have a clear mission to complete. This is entirely natural, as they are large, valuable, and difficult to replace. But for a fighter pilot, particularly an Inner Sphere one, while facing a hostile WarShip or DropShip may be rare, they see as much as action as any MechWarrior.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 15, 2008, 01:17:51 am
     Oh I'm sure Aerospace fighters see a lot of combat, but I think ground attack missions will be a little difficult to pull off. I get the impression from various posts that you can't for instance simulate a mech walking (model articulation). .. . so unless the pilot's attacking a bunch of station mech/turrets and tank/turrets. And/or random buildings here and there. But I think not having the mechs move would be a big limitation. A better game from FASA to simulate might be Starlord's idea, Renegade Legion where the main ground combatants would be anti-grav tanks. Much easier to simulate I think.

    Aerotech would certainly be cool, but without the mechs it's not really aerotech I think :).
    With the mechs . . . and atmospheric combat, the mission potential is a lot greater.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 15, 2008, 09:19:41 am
If you can simulate a mech punching, why can't you simulate it walking???
(search is your friend, unless it's still bonked?). Shadow0000 did it with my namesake Getter Robo.

I just think it's a huge amount of work for all those animations and what not. unless every unit could use the same set but I think not. Every unit would need to be articulated etc...

My idea is less attractive but more feasible. I was going to have all the units hover barely over teh ground and not walk just glide. Problem was 2-3 mods WERE working on gravity and ground stuff (158th, twisted infinity, etc) and you all know how that's going...

Regardless, I was going to make the upper part of the mech a turret and the lower part a base. The torso twist would be the Z axis left right turning and the arms would be the Y axis up/down so at lest they would appear to track targets. The key would be to bind the movement only to the ground plane so they don't go floating off in random directions like fighters. Again a feature that was being worked on with no word or release of such features...

See you on the ground pilots! (yeah my drop ship is an ISD got a problem with that?) :p
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Star-Dragon/imperialwalker.jpg)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Sarafan on March 15, 2008, 12:31:38 pm
If a BT mod were to be made, one thing I'd like to know is would it be possible to mount all those weapons fighters have?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on March 15, 2008, 12:55:15 pm
If a BT mod were to be made, one thing I'd like to know is would it be possible to mount all those weapons fighters have?
Err?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Shade on March 15, 2008, 01:16:33 pm
I don't see the problem. You've got at least two primary banks and three secondary banks to work with. So something like a large laser/medium laser + SRM/LRM combo would fit just fine, and you'd even have a secondary bank to spare. Plus any turrets.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 15, 2008, 02:11:38 pm
I just think it's a huge amount of work for all those animations and what not. unless every unit could use the same set but I think not. Every unit would need to be articulated etc...

    Depending on what exactly is entailed, a walk cycle for a mech isn't exactly that difficult. Normally anyway, I don't know if a person has to move them in an unusual way. (ie what software if any is used to animate??)

 
    As for the fighters, well . . . most fighters circa 3025 only has like 2-4 different types of weaponry. Try to use the biggest two weapons say . . . so most have like LLs, and MLs. Then the rear MLs would be a turret or some such. LRMs and SRMs become missile launchers of some variety. ACs become some sort of ammo dependent weapon. (dunno how you do that).

    With newer clan fighters etcetear, I think they go crazy with the number of weapons but a person just has to simplify it a little. If it's not exact whatever.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Shade on March 15, 2008, 02:15:23 pm
Quote
ACs become some sort of ammo dependent weapon. (dunno how you do that).
Ballistic primaries. Been possible for years. Check the BtRL demo if you want to see them in action.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 15, 2008, 02:49:05 pm
I don't see the problem. You've got at least two primary banks and three secondary banks to work with. So something like a large laser/medium laser + SRM/LRM combo would fit just fine, and you'd even have a secondary bank to spare. Plus any turrets.

He's got a point, unfortunately. It's common for an ASF to mount more than two kinds of what FS would consider primaries.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on March 15, 2008, 03:13:56 pm
First of all three primaries is not a problem... Or haven't you tried Wing Commander Saga...

Also... Its common for light and medium fighters to have just very few weapons. Heavies are a different story but even there you will find fighter variants that have 'suitable loadout'. Also i couldn't even find an example where there would have been four different kinds of 'primaries' mounted to a ship apart from fan made stuff...

Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Shade on March 15, 2008, 03:22:25 pm
Not to mention that often one set is pointed backwards, meaning you can hand those off to a turret instead of taking up a primary slot.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 16, 2008, 12:03:33 am
You do have control over subsystem rotation via scripting. If attached subsystems rotate with their parent subsystem, you could make a walking anim.

As far as Aerotech goes - I imported a couple of fighters awhile back; I don't know what happened to them. You can't simulate criticals, but you could treat banks of weapons as a group of criticals. So you could swap out four medium lasers for four AC-5s, for instance.

For Freespace 2, you wouldn't even want more than four weapons. It hasn't got the ability to group things like Mechwarrior 2. Three banks of weapons to deal with is plenty.

No one's mentioned the Clan Wars after Aleksandr Kerensky died; that's another possible point for naval combat. You could take the role of one of Nicholas Kerensky's loyal followers and work your way up as he establishes the Clans. Or you could take part in the decimation of the Unnamed Clan. Or just participate in several Trials of Possession. It would take away from the alien feel of the Clans, but it would add some texture to the campaign, quiaff?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: General Battuta on March 16, 2008, 12:12:46 am
Mechwarrior 2 was probably the best of the series, and it was from a Clan POV.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on March 16, 2008, 01:29:58 am
The whole weapon swapping idea doesn't really even belong to the AeroTech or BattleTech - apart from modular omnitech. That is its just mainly just the computer games where this happens as i seem to recall that when customizing anything there was always a huge risk of ruining the existing design. People shouldnt really have any choice in selecting primary weapon loadout except from possibly ammo types selected for certain autocannons - same goes with LRMs/SRMs and other secondaries. With weapon bank specific loadouts this would be really simple to do.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 16, 2008, 01:54:50 am
The whole weapon swapping idea doesn't really even belong to the AeroTech or BattleTech - apart from modular omnitech. That is its just mainly just the computer games where this happens as i seem to recall that when customizing anything there was always a huge risk of ruining the existing design. People shouldnt really have any choice in selecting primary weapon loadout except from possibly ammo types selected for certain autocannons - same goes with LRMs/SRMs and other secondaries. With weapon bank specific loadouts this would be really simple to do.

  Yeah, that we be my thoughts also. People would get a ship and would fly whatever weapons it had. Maybe a few choices of ships but they shouldnt have interchangeable weaponry. Might get boring for some people . .. but that's part of the flavour of the universe. Also makes omnifighters more important in that respect.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Steel Prophet on March 18, 2008, 08:27:37 am
Oh well what should i say... we're working on this for some time now. Fighters weapons for example are already done. But progress is slow right now because we only have one modeler and even the best (mission)ideas have to wait until you have ships to test them :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 20, 2008, 07:32:35 pm
Keep at it! I'd really be curious in seeing what you guys turn out later on...
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Steel Prophet on March 22, 2008, 06:48:14 pm
you'll need a lot of patience then :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Nuke on March 23, 2008, 12:40:48 am
i actually thought about making an ik system of sorts through scripting which would make walking mechs sorta possible, but as with thje fsrts mod i think id hit a roadblock eventually.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 23, 2008, 12:05:57 pm
Steel, so you're actually committed to this???

  If so then I might have some resources for you (note not permission so for references or internal testing at best, show no screens.)

In my travels I've become quite the packrat even on things that will never be used...

On a side note: Are you aiming for a particular age? IF you include classic Inner sphere, then some RT mecha can be used as well. (Warhammer, Rifleman, LAMs) etc...

Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 23, 2008, 05:42:00 pm
On a side note: Are you aiming for a particular age? IF you include classic Inner sphere, then some RT mecha can be used as well. (Warhammer, Rifleman, LAMs) etc...

       I'm trying to help them with a few fighter models.
       What he told me is that eventually they hope to have everything. Not sure if mechs fit into "everything" but they probably wouldn't hurt.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Steel Prophet on March 23, 2008, 06:13:21 pm
If mechs are possible we might think about it but our main focus is right now on Aerospace fighters, followed by dropships, warships and so on...
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 23, 2008, 09:29:25 pm
Let me know if you need a canon nazi. :P
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 24, 2008, 09:01:41 am
Right I got 4-5 really LOW poly ones from HW them. Maybe a crude Union also. Possible Mckenna? I'll look around my drives if I can still find them (New comp I got 2 drives pulled from old I cant access without  bother).

If I find them I will package them up for you on your say like around fridayish? (note on restrictions I mentioned previously)...



Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 24, 2008, 09:07:24 am
Check the BTModArchive for their Homeworld mod, tbh. I asked once if they minded the work being used, they said no.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Steel Prophet on March 24, 2008, 09:51:55 am
Let me know if you need a canon nazi. :P

I think we have enough of those ;)

Right I got 4-5 really LOW poly ones from HW them. Maybe a crude Union also. Possible Mckenna? I'll look around my drives if I can still find them (New comp I got 2 drives pulled from old I cant access without  bother).

If I find them I will package them up for you on your say like around fridayish? (note on restrictions I mentioned previously)...





friday is ok thank you :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Nuke on March 29, 2008, 01:46:39 pm
now that we have matrix interpolation in scripting it might be possible to write that ik system that would be needed for proper mech animation.we would have to do some other stuff, like disable collision damage/effectsa/pspews. we would also need a traceline routine (trace a vector untill it intersects a polygon and report the vector location) to determine step placement. then the ik code would calculate the subobject rotations. better multiweapon handeling would be needed too. heat behavior could be scripted. if somone wants to provide a mech model (with jointed extremities (each section as a sub model) with a hierarchical structure). then i might possibly be ablt to do some experiments with ik in scripting.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on March 29, 2008, 01:53:38 pm
Err? BattleMechs? I thought this about the space aspect of the battletech? Besides IIRC stuff like infantry and armor units should be much more common than mechs (as ground targets that is)..

Though i wouldnt mind seeing walking mechs in FS  :nod:
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: NGTM-1R on March 29, 2008, 03:37:00 pm
Err? BattleMechs? I thought this about the space aspect of the battletech? Besides IIRC stuff like infantry and armor units should be much more common than mechs (as ground targets that is)..

Though i wouldnt mind seeing walking mechs in FS  :nod:

The assumption is that the normal AeroJock's day is consumed in hunting for "targets of opportunity", i.e. anything that moves. 'Mech forces would be high up the target list, of course.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on March 29, 2008, 03:44:58 pm
      You know there was some dude on the Battletech forums who did like 3d models of most of the warships. I don't know what his models are like but might be interesting to look into. Most of the images I recall being somewhat small . . . well, not small but the featured warships were sort of distant in the composition. Maybe they don't have too much detail.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 31, 2008, 02:40:47 pm
http://upload2.net/page/download/dWX04TUfzd6y8uK/btsw_v1_0b.zip.html

Picked out all the non-BT stuff so you got like 1 dropship 1 warship and 7 fighters (all low poly).
haven't touched it since, GL!
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: The Spac on April 02, 2008, 05:23:24 am
Mechwarrior 2 was probably the best of the series, and it was from a Clan POV.

Just wish I could get it working on XP :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on April 02, 2008, 07:38:28 am
The original MW2 (Mercenaries) was for PC and IS pov... Most awesome of all...
"It's all about the C-bills kid."
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: The Spac on April 02, 2008, 09:29:17 am
I use to play Mech2 and Merc and NetMech tons but I've never been able to get my cd's working on XP. :-/ Mercenaries was awesome. If anyone actually knows feel free to tell me :-D
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: The Spac on April 02, 2008, 09:41:31 am
Mech 2 Patch for XP

http://www.mektek.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t55242.html

Merc 2 Patch for XP

http://kontza.googlepages.com/mechwarrior2%3Amercenariesxppatching
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on April 02, 2008, 09:43:32 am
Under DosBox like all good old games? It can actually improve the performance too.. Tested descent 2 demo under win XP and it was stuttering no matter what i tried and almost completely unplayable.. Tested under dosbox run on the very same machine it run like dream - even got sounds to work that way.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: The Spac on April 02, 2008, 10:04:47 am
Under DosBox like all good old games? It can actually improve the performance too.. Tested descent 2 demo under win XP and it was stuttering no matter what i tried and almost completely unplayable.. Tested under dosbox run on the very same machine it run like dream - even got sounds to work that way.

http://www.descent2.de/

Open Source upgrade, runs on XP, one executable for both D1 and D2+Expansions has opengl support and high resolution textures. :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on April 02, 2008, 10:31:03 am
I think you kinda missed the point...
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: The Spac on April 02, 2008, 11:37:14 am
I think you did, why play such low res when you don't have to. :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on April 02, 2008, 01:42:45 pm
:wtf:


I rest my case....
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: The Spac on April 02, 2008, 10:30:59 pm
DosBox is usually my last resort because there are alot of community projects for alot of old games is all.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Sidus Corsair on January 30, 2009, 10:08:19 am
Hi All!

I'm new to Freespace as I finally bought a x52 joystick so I could play my mechwarrior properly (totally amazing after all these years on a mouse) but started looking for space combat simulators and found this and thought "WOW" wouldn't this be great for an aerotech TC. Though I have no experience with modding(moddling) etc. I started looking into doing a mod myself as I didn't find anything on the various forums about it... should have guessed there'd be something out there... finally found this thread.

I see the last post in it was like almost a year ago, so I'm wondering if anything more has been done on the mod/TC, if its still going...

Also, I would like to help if there is anything I can do, I'd love to see an aerotech game out there.

Many thanks,

Corsair. :nervous:

So please let me know...

I hope it was alright to post in here, I don't usually post so not sure whats ok...

Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: terran_emperor on January 30, 2009, 10:55:37 am
Why isnt this thread in the "Gaming Discussion" section?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Mongoose on January 30, 2009, 04:38:12 pm
Because it was originally about the feasibility of a Battletech mod for FS2.

That being said, it rightly belongs in Modding...which is where it shall be shortly.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: gevatter Lars on January 30, 2009, 04:47:57 pm
What a BT/AT Mod? When will it be done? ^_^

Would be nice to see something like that. There are a lot of different ships and fighters in the Technical-Readouts. Also quite a number of different weapons and it would be a pretty unused scenario.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on January 30, 2009, 08:27:20 pm
What's his name either abandoned it or just disappeared.
(try a PM) Steel prophet...

Mod pls lock this thread...

Getting my hopes up on a first post puts me in a bad mood.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Sidus Corsair on January 30, 2009, 10:31:04 pm
What's his name either abandoned it or just disappeared.
(try a PM) Steel prophet...

Mod pls lock this thread...

Getting my hopes up on a first post puts me in a bad mood.

I will PM Steel Prophet, thank you.

Shall I start another thread?

My APOLOGIES for putting you in a bad mood!
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Steel Prophet on January 31, 2009, 09:28:55 am
What's his name either abandoned it or just disappeared.
(try a PM) Steel prophet...

Mod pls lock this thread...

Getting my hopes up on a first post puts me in a bad mood.

I think that's me you are talking about :)
We're still working on an Aerotech Mod but progress is very slow.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on January 31, 2009, 12:20:24 pm
So did you find the models I sent you of any use?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Grizzly on January 31, 2009, 12:49:25 pm
The original MW2 (Mercenaries) was for PC and IS pov... Most awesome of all...
"It's all about the C-bills kid."


Ehrm.. The Original MW2 was "31-st Century Combat" Also known as "The Clans". Mercs was a stand-alone expansion.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Steel Prophet on January 31, 2009, 07:23:59 pm
So did you find the models I sent you of any use?

I'm sorry we didnt :/
That's why progress is so slow. Right now we have 2 Fighters finished and in-game and 2 more coming up soon.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on February 01, 2009, 12:12:00 am
Stand alone or not I never heard of regular MW2...  :lol:
I just saw the trailer for it though.
Was it any good?

But this version is the one I like best:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=at9hxU864Fg&feature=related

"You get to keep ALL the money!"
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: General Battuta on February 01, 2009, 12:26:55 am
Yeah, regular MW2 was a little better than Mercs, largely due to cleaner graphics.

That's unfortunately not the case if you get the updated Titanium Trilogy edition, which makes everything vaguely ugly (Mercs-style) again.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: redsniper on February 02, 2009, 04:56:52 pm
Wait, what? Mercs added textures to the terrain and stuff, is that what you mean by MW2 having 'cleaner' graphics?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: General Battuta on February 02, 2009, 05:44:43 pm
Wait, what? Mercs added textures to the terrain and stuff, is that what you mean by MW2 having 'cleaner' graphics?

Yep. Unfortunately the textures were kind of crappy. The grittier, grubbier look fit Mercenaries very well, but I thought it damaged the atmosphere established in MW2: The Clans.

It's rather like the transition from sprites to 3D graphics -- in the long run a positive move, but not so great at first.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Nuke on February 03, 2009, 09:09:38 pm
i think im the one who had the idea on how to make it work. i figure yuou need to script/code a number of things to make it work.

terrain model handeling/procedural generation, and collision detection

this has been done quite successfully in the past with various mods. cant name any off the top of my head, but ive seen terrain maps it many a mission. ive also attempted both terrain "ships" and fps style levels for at least 2 dry runs for mod ideas (a reference for my flight sim physics model, and for my decent mod testbed). while this seems to work with simple low poly terrain mopels, id like to see a procedural terrain system that can generate a system of tiles and automatically increase or decrease detail based on the position of the camera. now you can get away with detail boxed to hell terrain models. but the engine needs to be told that these are static, cannot be moved or affected by physics, ai also needs to be aware of it.

improved ground collision detection and terrain physics

collision detection should also be considered. it needs to be smarter, needs to know what a save velocity is, whether your crashing into it, landing at a safe speed/angle, falling over, or just walking. cant have your mech exploding each time you take a step. proper sound effects need to be played for whatever case. surface material also would also play a role. you need to know whether your walking on dirt, rock, gravel, sand, tarmac whatever. also you might want to handle water somehow, non-colidable surfaces with an actual bottom beneath. perhaps some underwater effects if your view is below the surface. possibly include water dynamics, waves, currents, ect. possibly procedural trees with wind effects.

ik based submodel animation and mech physics

walking physics are terrain dependant. given a certain stride length and speed, you need to determine where the next foot needs to go, anhd how the mechanics will articulate to get that placement, and then what happens to the mech as its walking.

pretty much you have to code it all from scratch. some stuff might already be available to the engine and can be used to facilitate the system. but then you have to maintain compatability with freespace, mods, and alot of other stuff. when it comes right down to it there are engines better suited to this kinda mod.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: redsniper on February 03, 2009, 11:39:58 pm
Just make me a MW5, I don't care what engine you use. :D
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Mad Bomber on May 25, 2009, 06:30:45 pm
Sorry to thread necro, but has anything been done on this? Or has it died off?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Nuke on May 25, 2009, 06:41:09 pm
does nuke ever get anything done?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on May 25, 2009, 09:16:24 pm
You'll have to ask yourself I'm afraid....

 :drevil:
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: starlord on May 26, 2009, 07:27:25 am
I recall that one of the possible points which would need implemention in FSO would be broadside bays (line of cannons firing in salvos) for ships. This is especially true for the battletech/renegade universes and might even spawn further openings...
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Dragon on May 26, 2009, 07:40:01 am
If you want the row of cannons (not multipart) firing in salvos I know how to do them.
Firstly ,you need to make a model where entire broadside bay is one turret subobject and add firing points to each barrel. (on first screen you can see firing point placement and on second turret subobject ,they are both from BSG Guardian destroyer ,with 3-barrel cannon bays)
Secondly you must make a cannon that has $Swarm: <as many as firing points>  
and $Swarm Wait: 0.0000001 (if you want them to fire at once).
I don't know how large is limit of available slots per turret ,but it should work (note that entire salvo will be aimed at one target unless you use heat-seeking missiles).

[attachment deleted by ninja]
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on May 26, 2009, 07:43:33 am
Or then just use the 'salvo mode' subsystem flag...
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Dragon on May 26, 2009, 07:44:48 am
Isn't it only in your branch?
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: starlord on May 26, 2009, 08:09:39 am
Question is indeed, how many slots per turrets are possible, and mostly, is this number fixed or prone to change in future builds?

If you take examples like battle fleet gothic or renegade legion, you'll see bays supposed to carry 100 guns. Of course, then again, it might be possible to configure 10 guns to fire 10 times and make the bay appear as "visually" containing 100 guns.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Wanderer on May 26, 2009, 08:15:50 am
Each turret can have up to 10 firing points.

Edit: also the trunk (not 3.6.10) has that option enabled (might be tad unstable though)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on May 26, 2009, 08:49:37 am
wait, this broadside thing, can it work for secondaries equally? (will this work in 3.6.9?)

If so I will take the time to test this out on a ship made for that.
 ;7
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Dragon on May 26, 2009, 10:40:15 am
There's no problem with adapting the broadside bay to carry missiles.
And solution for 100 gun bay is very simple ,just split it into 10 bays ,10 guns each (they will not always fire at once ,but will be able to track more than one target instead).
Also keep in mind 350 shots at one time limit ,4 full shots from 100 gun battery and you're over it (that means the weapons will start to disappear).
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on May 26, 2009, 11:17:31 am
So if I wanted to do this really easy and dirty, I could make a PLATE with the invisible texture and put it exactly over the 4 Missile textures areas on all for spots and each plate would be a single-part turret with 24 firing points.

Is my logic correct before I try this?

 ;)

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b321/Star-Dragon/The%20Independant%20Fleet/dvtestnimo.jpg)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Dragon on May 26, 2009, 11:25:58 am
If not the fact mentioned by Wanderer (10 firing points per turret) of course.
If I were you I would make four plates per launcher ,each with 6 points.
Anyway if you reduce the number of points per turret it should work.
(on a side note I'm amazed ,from where you get all those models)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: starlord on May 26, 2009, 02:22:03 pm
This might precisely be used for both RL and the starlancer project on game warden. Those missile silos look great. :)
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on May 26, 2009, 03:19:03 pm
There's a Starlancer TC in the works for Freespace 2?  I'd rather play that than Fringespace.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: starlord on May 26, 2009, 07:02:26 pm
check for the sol war in game warden.
Title: Re: Battletech?
Post by: Getter Robo G on May 27, 2009, 03:33:00 am
It wasn't on my agenda for now, but when i get back to it I will try that (breaking them up).

Lets just say I know a lot of people outside the community and because they like what i do I have what I have. Actually getting them INTO FS2 is something else entirely different, considering what I am limited to (ie no PCS2 capability for example).

So I do the best I can with what I am limited to and things have suffered from it.