Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Akalabeth Angel on March 26, 2008, 03:29:20 am
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I'm sure this has been brought up before . . . but . . . someone in another thread said something like "maybe bosch told the shivans about humanity and they decided not to kill them or whatnot, so they left."
Well one thing I thought of . . . Bosch went out to ally humanity with the Shivans. A lot of people think the Shivans jumped home, but whose home did they go to? Theirs or Admiral Bosch's?
This might make a good campaign . . . but hell, I'm having problems rethinking the ending for my own (since it sucked, and didnt make much sense). So I'm not about to start another.
EDIT - for spelling :)
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There's also the possibility that the Shivans were going to annihilate the GTVA, but Bosch, not exactly wanting the death of the human race, managed to convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior to the Shivans, in terms of both technology and numbers. So, for some reason, the Shivans blew up Capella and ran away.
It has all been discussed before.
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Bosch's home = Allied space..............unless they went back to Earth................ :sigh:
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err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.
the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.
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err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.
the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.
They can go somewhere since there is at least the node back to Gamma Draconis. At least. I'll check some node maps to see if there are other systems as well.
Edit: Yup, there's always the Gamma Draconis node. I don't remember anyone doing anything to it.
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err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.
the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.
Well I think it's a fairly common idea that the Shivan's jumped somewhere, but who said they're limited to the Shivan homeworld? Why could they get there easier than any place else? If they can make some magic door to Shiva Prime I'm sure that magic door can lead to Sol just as easily. Bosch's motives as far as I know were always to ally the humans with the Shivans and by doing so preserve humanity.
There's also the possibility that the Shivans were going to annihilate the GTVA, but Bosch, not exactly wanting the death of the human race, managed to convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior to the Shivans, in terms of both technology and numbers. So, for some reason, the Shivans blew up Capella and ran away.
How exactly would Bosch convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior with no proof and lots of evidence to the contrary? Because he speaks good shivan? The fact that they lost a Sathanas doesn't change the fact that the Shivans steamrolled the GTVA everywhere else. If the Shivans were shocked by the death of a Sathanas, and feared the Colossus, why would they sortie another one to wipe it out? You don't confront something you fear. And if they did fear the GTVA, they wouldn't have risked another juggernaut against potential "one of" the GTVA's super weapon. They weren't running away from the GTVA, they were doing their thing and the GTVA was in the way. Just like the Colossus was in the way, in the way so much, that they bothered to send a Juggernaut in to take it out.
In other respects . . . think about FS3. If freespace 3 is the GTVA returning to Sol. What's going to happen? Civil War? Some big happy reunion? It's not freespace without the Shivans. FS1 started when the Shivans arrived, not when the Vasudans did. At the same time it would probably be a pretty boring game for the Sol system to be roaming around with 50 Juggernauts (compared to FS2 which has a lot of stuff back and forth). . . but the Shivans are going to be in the game somehow.
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Seeing as FreeSpace1 and FreeSpace2 had some sort of other military conflict before the Shivans come. Then they whipe us out when we're least effective... But anyway, my point is, that FreeSpace3 would have had some sort of conflict in it prior to the third return of the Shivans. There are many possible conflicts there:
1. War with Sol.
2. War with fleets and people against reunitment with Sol.
3. Some sort of NTF or HoL return.
4. Bosch and some Shivans on his side.
5. People against an alliance with the Shivans.
And so on. But there would have been some sort of conflict in FS3 before the Shivans would have come.
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There's also the possibility that the Shivans were going to annihilate the GTVA, but Bosch, not exactly wanting the death of the human race, managed to convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior to the Shivans, in terms of both technology and numbers. So, for some reason, the Shivans blew up Capella and ran away.
How exactly would Bosch convince the Shivans that the GTVA was superior with no proof and lots of evidence to the contrary? Because he speaks good shivan? The fact that they lost a Sathanas doesn't change the fact that the Shivans steamrolled the GTVA everywhere else. If the Shivans were shocked by the death of a Sathanas, and feared the Colossus, why would they sortie another one to wipe it out? You don't confront something you fear. And if they did fear the GTVA, they wouldn't have risked another juggernaut against potential "one of" the GTVA's super weapon.
Considering that the Lucy pwned the GTA and PVN a lot before it was suddenly destroyed by a snappy tactic, it might be difficult, but not impossible, to convince the Shivans that the GTVA has some secret weapon/plan that would be at least some kind of a menace. Then again, we're talking about Shivans so there's no telling how they might react to any threats. The Capella incident might have been a scorched earth tactic or some other deterrant. It might have been this infamous Portal to HappinessTM, as it is stated in that one cutscene.
Also, even if the Shivans would have been somewhat intimidated by the Collie, nothing stops them from exploiting its weaknesses and making several more or less big assaults against it, until it was in such a state that a Sath could blow it up for good.
think about FS3. If freespace 3 is the GTVA returning to Sol. What's going to happen?
Something was said... not good. What was it? "Sol"? Nah, that's OK. What was it? "FS3"! He said FS3! Burn the witch!
Seriously. What would happen after the events of FS2? Play some campaigns, like Derelict or Blue Planet, and see different possible scenarios. There shalt no be an ef es three. Deal with it.
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problem is, the campaigns are controversial, none except series take place in the same 'universe'... that would be nice though, but it's impossible...
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Precisely. Different scenarios. Different visions. None more right than the other. We will never know what would reallyTM happen, but it is always nice to see what might happen.
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Considering that the Lucy pwned the GTA and PVN a lot before it was suddenly destroyed by a snappy tactic, it might be difficult, but not impossible, to convince the Shivans that the GTVA has some secret weapon/plan that would be at least some kind of a menace. Then again, we're talking about Shivans so there's no telling how they might react to any threats. The Capella incident might have been a scorched earth tactic or some other deterrant. It might have been this infamous Portal to HappinessTM, as it is stated in that one cutscene.
Also, even if the Shivans would have been somewhat intimidated by the Collie, nothing stops them from exploiting its weaknesses and making several more or less big assaults against it, until it was in such a state that a Sath could blow it up for good.
When you use "scorched earth" tactics, you do so in your own territory. You don't run into enemy territory, and scorch their earth. If the shivans are at all worried, scared, or intimidated by the GTVA they would not go to Capella. Ever heard the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? Throwing the 80 Sathanas into Capella is doing exactly that, and in ENEMY territory no less. The Lucifer is one ship, and there's no evidence that the Lucifer fleet had any sort of contact with this larger Shivan fleet in FS2. Not that it would matter, because as I said, the Shivans wouldn't care. They clearly had an agenda that basically didn't involve wiping out the GTVA at that time. Despite fan-made campaigns to the contrary, there's no canon evidence I'm aware of that the Shivans even went any further than Capella.
Something was said... not good. What was it? "Sol"? Nah, that's OK. What was it? "FS3"! He said FS3! Burn the witch!
Seriously. What would happen after the events of FS2? Play some campaigns, like Derelict or Blue Planet, and see different possible scenarios. There shalt no be an ef es three. Deal with it.
Eh, I think you're confused. I never said "oh, I wish I had FS3 to play. Why have you forsaken us volition?"
What I'm saying is that the end of Freespace 2 is set up such that Volition had an idea of what the story for Freespace3 would be. Whereas FS1 is fairly self contained, FS2 is open ended. The GTVA has the means to go to Earth, and while the Shivans seem to have left there's still a massive fleet somewhere which can lay the GTVA to waste at any time they want, no questions asked. And on top of that, a small group of humans has made contact with the Shivans. That just screams sequel.
So a person has to think about FS3, not for the sake of FS3 itself but for trying to understand the story of FS2. This has come up mostly when trying to work on my own campaign, I've tried to understand the Shivan's possible motives in FS2 and their role in the greater story but a person can't do that without thinking about what FS3 might've been like. It's not about wishing for something that'll never happen (FS3), but for trying to create accurate/quality stories in a post-FS2 universe. Some people like to do that, other people just do whatever and run with it . . .
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When you use "scorched earth" tactics, you do so in your own territory. You don't run into enemy territory, and scorch their earth. If the shivans are at all worried, scared, or intimidated by the GTVA they would not go to Capella. Ever heard the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket"? Throwing the 80 Sathanas into Capella is doing exactly that, and in ENEMY territory no less. The Lucifer is one ship, and there's no evidence that the Lucifer fleet had any sort of contact with this larger Shivan fleet in FS2. Not that it would matter, because as I said, the Shivans wouldn't care. They clearly had an agenda that basically didn't involve wiping out the GTVA at that time.
And again, we can't really know how Shivans react to different things. Sure, if someone conviced the Yanks that the Soviets had a Weapon of Ultimate PwnageTM, they might very well go hiding or something. Run away. Whatever. But it is another thing to assume that the Shivans would surely do the same thing. The Capella incident might have been a final blow, or a means of escaping or anything. Though I'm not denying that they might have been going there the whole time.
Despite fan-made campaigns to the contrary, there's no canon evidence I'm aware of that the Shivans even went any further than Capella.
I have to check out if there were any other mentions, but at least in Apocalypse you are supposed to stop those few Shivan cruisers that are attempting to jump to Vega. There might have been others as well. Though most likely they were neutralized.
Eh, I think you're confused. I never said "oh, I wish I had FS3 to play. Why have you forsaken us volition?"
What I'm saying is that the end of Freespace 2 is set up such that Volition had an idea of what the story for Freespace3 would be. Whereas FS1 is fairly self contained, FS2 is open ended. The GTVA has the means to go to Earth, and while the Shivans seem to have left there's still a massive fleet somewhere which can lay the GTVA to waste at any time they want, no questions asked. And on top of that, a small group of humans has made contact with the Shivans. That just screams sequel.
So a person has to think about FS3, not for the sake of FS3 itself but for trying to understand the story of FS2. This has come up mostly when trying to work on my own campaign, I've tried to understand the Shivan's possible motives in FS2 and their role in the greater story but a person can't do that without thinking about what FS3 might've been like. It's not about wishing for something that'll never happen (FS3), but for trying to create accurate/quality stories in a post-FS2 universe. Some people like to do that, other people just do whatever and run with it . . .
The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.
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Shut up, that's not true. I wouldn't exclude the development of FS3, not in a decisive way.
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K. If you want to go to that level... you shut up.
Now, back on topic. Given the current situation and interests of Volition, I'm sticking to the "ef es three will never happen", unless explicit evidence is presented stating, that :v: or some other faction is indeed working on FS3. People are, of course, free to believe what they want to believe. I might remind you that, like with leadership solutions, there are no right or wrong opinions. Just good and bad ones...
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And again, we can't really know how Shivans react to different things. Sure, if someone conviced the Yanks that the Soviets had a Weapon of Ultimate PwnageTM, they might very well go hiding or something. Run away. Whatever. But it is another thing to assume that the Shivans would surely do the same thing. The Capella incident might have been a final blow, or a means of escaping or anything. Though I'm not denying that they might have been going there the whole time.
Oh right, the Shivans are alien, so they'll react contrary to common sense. Riiiiight.
I don't think the Shivans were doing that the whole time either, their actions were changed by Bosch but not in the way you're thinking. Running away? Running towards the enemy you're scared of? Not likely.
I have to check out if there were any other mentions, but at least in Apocalypse you are supposed to stop those few Shivan cruisers that are attempting to jump to Vega. There might have been others as well. Though most likely they were neutralized.
Yeah, except that the Shivans weren't attempting to jump to Vega. That was Command's concern, not the Shivan's intentions. It's pretty clear from the mission itself that they're just attacking the convoy. Probably in an effort to "kill them or hurry them out of the system because the Shivans got **** to do". For one, if they wanted to jump to Vega they'd probably actually move _towards_ the node not away from it.
The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.
You even reading my post? I told you I'm not talking about FS3, I'm talking about FS2. I don't give a crap in FS3 is ever made, if it's never made, I don't care. I'm talking about understanding FS2 by theorizing what FS3 might've been. Which is a perfectly legitimate discussion. I don't know why everyone on this board has to act like a 4 year old whenever someone mentions "FS3". So it's somehow a banned word as taboo or whatever.
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And again, we can't really know how Shivans react to different things. Sure, if someone conviced the Yanks that the Soviets had a Weapon of Ultimate PwnageTM, they might very well go hiding or something. Run away. Whatever. But it is another thing to assume that the Shivans would surely do the same thing. The Capella incident might have been a final blow, or a means of escaping or anything. Though I'm not denying that they might have been going there the whole time.
Oh right, the Shivans are alien, so they'll react contrary to common sense. Riiiiight.
I don't think the Shivans were doing that the whole time either, their actions were changed by Bosch but not in the way you're thinking. Running away? Running towards the enemy you're scared of? Not likely.
You're acting like common sense is the same thing always; never changing. All common sense is is just an instinct that people inherently know what to do in some situations. Whether the Shivans have something similar or not is completely independent from what we view as "common" sense.
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Eh, I think you're confused. I never said "oh, I wish I had FS3 to play. Why have you forsaken us volition?"
What I'm saying is that the end of Freespace 2 is set up such that Volition had an idea of what the story for Freespace3 would be. Whereas FS1 is fairly self contained, FS2 is open ended. The GTVA has the means to go to Earth, and while the Shivans seem to have left there's still a massive fleet somewhere which can lay the GTVA to waste at any time they want, no questions asked. And on top of that, a small group of humans has made contact with the Shivans. That just screams sequel.
So a person has to think about FS3, not for the sake of FS3 itself but for trying to understand the story of FS2. This has come up mostly when trying to work on my own campaign, I've tried to understand the Shivan's possible motives in FS2 and their role in the greater story but a person can't do that without thinking about what FS3 might've been like. It's not about wishing for something that'll never happen (FS3), but for trying to create accurate/quality stories in a post-FS2 universe. Some people like to do that, other people just do whatever and run with it . . .
The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.
AFAIK it hasn't been discussed thoroughly. Every time someone legitimately comes up to discuss what could have possibly happened, someone comes around throwing their arms in the air shouting "OMG DEATH EVIL FS3 GO KILL YOURSELF NOW!!!! #(% S($T!!! ME HATES!!".
Akalabeth Angel wasn't talking about FS3 as a game as you say, he was talking about what could have possibly in that time period.
...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3. But not quite as annoying as the people who get pissed off at the people who get pissed off at the people who mention FS3, I guess. :p
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...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3.
Would have to agree unless the person mentioning FS3 decides to post 3+ threads and keep persisting until someone squeals at him.
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K. If you want to go to that level... you shut up.
Now, back on topic. Given the current situation and interests of Volition, I'm sticking to the "ef es three will never happen", unless explicit evidence is presented stating, that :v: or some other faction is indeed working on FS3. People are, of course, free to believe what they want to believe. I might remind you that, like with leadership solutions, there are no right or wrong opinions. Just good and bad ones...
Only because no one is working on FS3 right now you can't claim that it will never be developed.
How did the community react when Derek Smart did what-we-all-know? What should we do/think now that Interplay seems back in business and FreeSpace is becoming famous?
...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3.
Would have to agree unless the person mentioning FS3 decides to post 3+ threads and keep persisting until someone squeals at him.
That happens because there are no "I'm new, what do I need to know about FreeSpace and HLP?" sections. They would greatly help people who have trouble installing FSO and prevent the creation of the.
I read about The FS3 MatterTM on The FAQTM(the one that brought me here) without creating the nth thread about the subject.
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Only because no one is working on FS3 right now you can't claim that it will never be developed.
I can. And I will. That's my opinion and I have a right to have it. Knock yourself out and have one of your own. You can't say I'm wrong because you think in a different way and vice versa. You wanna believe FS3 hits the store shelves any time soon? Please do. I'm not stopping you.
How did the community react when Derek Smart did what-we-all-know? What should we do/think now that Interplay seems back in business and FreeSpace is becoming famous?[/color][/i]
Most of the community didn't want an FS3, when it seemed that a DS was going to develop it. And now? I'm just concerned that FreeSpace becomes so popular that Interplay notices the HLP and thinks "Hey, they can't distribute FS2 freely!" and throw lawsuits at the community, effectively making FS2 a rare item among players. And even if Interplay is back in business, there is currently no proof that they're actually even remotely interested in continuing the space sim genre, not to mention by having someone make a sequel to a series that (sadly) was a flop.
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The point was that FS3 has been discussed thoroughly. It won't be. It won't ever exist. Talking about it won't change it. There's little point in discussing what FS3 might be since we already know it will never be. We can and probably will continue to speculate what might happen (going back to Sol, yet another rebellion, the unexpected return of the Shivans) and we can make campaigns about those ideas. But no FS3. Ever.
That looks like a fact, something that is no longer open to discussions. That post was filled with arrogance: I wouldn't call it an "opinion" because you made it look like the vision of the entire community while, as you said, it isn't.
As for the second part, I keep saying that you can't exclude a possible release of FS3. We CAN exclude it for the immediate future, however.
Many series kept going without their original programmers with various degrees of success(ex. Crash Bandicoot). We would all like a FS3 Made In :v:, that would be the true sequel, but we're generalizing here. Though a FS3 made by :v: doesn't seem possible, a FS3 made by <insert name> is.
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Replace name with <blaine russell, axem, etc> and you'd be right. . . Sort of. The campaign would be great but it wouldn't be :v: It would be like a stepbrother to 1 and 2.
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We would all like a FS3 Made In :v:, that would be the true sequel, but we're generalizing here.[/color][/i]
That's not a fact either. I don't want a FS3 in any way shape or form.
Though a FS3 made by :v: doesn't seem possible, a FS3 made by <insert name> is.[/color][/i]
Which is a truly horrible thought.
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...God, the people who get pissed at the mention of FS3 are more annoying than the people who actually mention FS3.
Indeed. Especially since most of them weren't actually around when FS3 threads were ten a penny and actually were annoying. Now more often than not it seems to be done because people expect an overreaction to mention of FS3 and want to be just like the veterans. Unfortunately they haven't noticed that the veterans don't mind mention of FS3 any more because it's become reasonably uncommon finally.
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Well it's time for the rookies to get their experience in FS3 discussions, the veterans are slowly venishing.
Snail, that's much more probable than the option we would all prefer.
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Snail, that's much more probable than the option we would all prefer.
Which is, as I said, a truly horrible thought.
Indeed. Especially since most of them weren't actually around when FS3 threads were ten a penny and actually were annoying. Now more often than not it seems to be done because people expect an overreaction to mention of FS3 and want to be just like the veterans. Unfortunately they haven't noticed that the veterans don't mind mention of FS3 any more because it's become reasonably uncommon finally.
I haven't seen an FS3 thread for quite a while.
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Snail time isn't that long here really. No offense. :)
Do a topic title search. I would imagine a few returns.
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Snail time isn't that long here really. No offense. :)
Do a topic title search. I would imagine a few returns.
Well in my 2 years on HLP I have seen a few FS3 threads, but not a lot of them.
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Freespace 3 is a pipe dream, go into a local games store and tell me how many space combat sims you can see. You can say it might happen in the future if you like but the likelihood of someone making a sequel to any game decreases the greater the time since the original's release.
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It's a static genre. Starlancer was the last major scs marketing campaign after prophecy. Freelancer just kind of appeared on the shelves round my manor.
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How did Bosch and the Shivans degenerate into FS3 talk.
Oh, how I lament the poor fate of this thread.
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Back on topic sorry :)
I forget, in the abduction mission, do the Iceni crew specify whether the ill fated admiral was taken alive, or dead?
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Alive, since they pursue him. I doubt they would pursue a corpse.
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Alive, since they pursue him. I doubt they would pursue a corpse.
Bosch had an effect on the Shivan's actions.
Or else the first 66% of the FS2 Campaign is completely meaningless. You don't have a civil war, and a secret project, and an ill-fated leader's monologues and in the end nothing happens whatsoever. Part of what the Shivans did in the end of FS2 is influenced by what Bosch did, now . . . did Bosch get his great alliance with the Shivans? I doubt it. No one ever gets exactly what they want, but the Shivans and their motives are likely more complicated as a result of what he did. It's possible that the Shivans went to Earth . . . but, it depends on how FS3 would've been structure. If the game starts with them going to Earth, having Shivans there would've made for probably a boring game. However if there was some dissent and buildup prior to the portal opening, it might've been more interesting. There likely would've been a civil war of some sort, there's the GTVI, NTF, HoL, there's always rebels for the sake of more interesting gameplay and less black and white. But who knows. It's likely the Shivans would've been prominent in FS3 again, but how they would've been introduced and what role they'd play is speculative.
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Most of the community didn't want an FS3, when it seemed that a DS was going to develop it. And now? I'm just concerned that FreeSpace becomes so popular that Interplay notices the HLP and thinks "Hey, they can't distribute FS2 freely!" and throw lawsuits at the community, effectively making FS2 a rare item among players. And even if Interplay is back in business, there is currently no proof that they're actually even remotely interested in continuing the space sim genre, not to mention by having someone make a sequel to a series that (sadly) was a flop.
The code is open source, as long as the releases contain no Volition content there's no breach of copyright. If BSG and WC:Saga etcetera are 100% original then Interplay can't do anything anyway.
IP already capitalized on the freespace2 boom when they rereleased it in a money grab a few years back.
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The code is open source, as long as the releases contain no Volition content there's no breach of copyright. If BSG and WC:Saga etcetera are 100% original then Interplay can't do anything anyway.
IP already capitalized on the freespace2 boom when they rereleased it in a money grab a few years back.
Indeed. The engine is open source. The SCP can continue to develop and release FSO builds and there's nothing wrong with TCs. But, the FS2 contents are. So, if Interplay decides so, they can demand that we discontinue sharing the actual FS2 to random people and that would at least partially nullify things such as Turey's Installer. Not entirely, but partially.
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err.... how can they went anywhere??? the shivans are "prisonered" in the capella system.
the only possibility i see is that the destroying of the capella sun created a subspace portal to the SHIVAN home world like said in the last video of FS2 IF you can jump before getting destroyed by the supernova.
They can go somewhere since there is at least the node back to Gamma Draconis. At least. I'll check some node maps to see if there are other systems as well.
Edit: Yup, there's always the Gamma Draconis node. I don't remember anyone doing anything to it.
I´m not sure how long the "knossos portal" at gamma draconis will be working. It was destroyed by 3GTVA MESON bombs.
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They can go somewhere since there is at least the node back to Gamma Draconis. At least. I'll check some node maps to see if there are other systems as well.
Edit: Yup, there's always the Gamma Draconis node. I don't remember anyone doing anything to it.
I´m not sure how long the "knossos portal" at gamma draconis will be working. It was destroyed by 3GTVA MESON bombs.
The Knossos portal is irrelevant. As demonstrated by the first Sathanas, the node was quite stable and didn't even require the portal to remain open. Yes, we can only speculate just how long will that node remain operational, but as it was stated in the game, it may be quite some time. Add that to the fact that the Shivans have a bad habit of using nodes that are too unstable for Terran and Vasudan vessels and there you have it. A nice, cozy route back to the nebula.
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Most of the community didn't want an FS3, when it seemed that a DS was going to develop it. And now? I'm just concerned that FreeSpace becomes so popular that Interplay notices the HLP and thinks "Hey, they can't distribute FS2 freely!" and throw lawsuits at the community, effectively making FS2 a rare item among players. And even if Interplay is back in business, there is currently no proof that they're actually even remotely interested in continuing the space sim genre, not to mention by having someone make a sequel to a series that (sadly) was a flop.
Be realistic, Interplay will never be able to stop the distribution of FS2 the same way you can find cracked versions of games released today on Torrent networks within hours of their release.
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I know. Nothing can be stopped in the InterWebs. It's just that if Interplay wants to be a *****, they can demand that, for example, Turey's Installer doesn't provide anyone with FS2 and they might try to track sites that host FS2. I know. After that we could be like Psst. Get ef es too from the torrenzrorz. Oh and ef es wan too.
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I wonder...what if the Capella Supernova and the collapsing of the Epsilon Pegasi and Vega nodes destabilized the Gamma Draconis node, trapping the Shivans in Capella, or if the Gamma Drac - Nebula Knossos node collapsed... As if...the Capella supernova was a mistake...as in, never meant to happen, and the collapsed nodes leave the Shivans unable to run from...whatever problem :v: hinted at.
that would be...interesting :P (using that for my campaign NO STEALING)
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Since FS2 source code is free release...Only the art is kinda...'protected', then won't everyone just download the source code/engine, plug in the MediaVPs, and be happy with having even higher-quality art than the original?
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I wonder...what if the Capella Supernova and the collapsing of the Epsilon Pegasi and Vega nodes destabilized the Gamma Draconis node, trapping the Shivans in Capella, or if the Gamma Drac - Nebula Knossos node collapsed... As if...the Capella supernova was a mistake...as in, never meant to happen, and the collapsed nodes leave the Shivans unable to run from...whatever problem :v: hinted at.
that would be...interesting :P (using that for my campaign NO STEALING)
Hmmn . . . the only thing Volition said about the Shivans was something like they're a symptom of a larger problem (though may be inaccurate depending on how long we've been playing the telephone game). I think most of the Juggernauts physically left Capella, for whereabouts unknown. Any Shivans that didn't died in capella so even if the node to GD was destablilized it wouldnt've have mattered.
I don't know how long it would take for the supernova to become a usable Nebula, if that is in fact the end result of the action. Wasn't it said that the nebula was a supernova remnant?
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I don't think the Sathani escaped Capella. They went into subspace yes, but they were nowhere near a node. Which leaves them to exit within teh nebula again, if I am not mistaken.
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I don't think the Sathani escaped Capella. They went into subspace yes, but they were nowhere near a node. Which leaves them to exit within teh nebula again, if I am not mistaken.
The common theory is that it was a special subspace jump that allowed them to exit the system, potential to someplace completely unrelated. Otherwise, why would they have jumped? If they're limited to staying in the system they're going to die anyway, so why jump at all? The only reason they would've jumped is if it would have prevented their destruction, and the only way to avoid destruction is if their subspace jump took them out of Capella.
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Not necessarily.
I've always taken it as if they hung out in subspace until the Supernova subsided, then dropped back out?
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Not necessarily.
I've always taken it as if they hung out in subspace until the Supernova subsided, then dropped back out?
So they waited for hundreds of years?
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Not necessarily.
I've always taken it as if they hung out in subspace until the Supernova subsided, then dropped back out?
So they waited for hundreds of years?
I've never got the impression that Subspace was anything that a person could "hang around in" anyway. That's a non-canon myth perpetuated by Homesick and Derelict imo (and maybe some other campaigns I don't know about). I've always thought for example that the subspace tunnel was not a tunnel per say but rather a graphical representation of something like hyperspace from Star Wars. If all it was is a tunnel, why did they need subspace tracking in order to intercept the Lucifer?
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I think that the tunnel moves, not the ship itself. Notice the Lucy's at 0m/s, it's not moving. The tunnel must be moving around it.
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Or... gameplay issues? Maybe it took a wee bit to long to reach the Lucy when it was actually moving, so :v: saw it acceptable to make it just float there; no one would notice easily, anyway. Not with those backgrounds. Because if you think about it, there might be a conflict. If a ship doesn't move but the tunnel does, then how can the fighters still move all around the tunnel? If only the tunnel moves, then basically you should just get a mission where the Lucy is far away and you're just floating there behind it, with the same "speed". Kind of hard to try and intercept it before the human race is doomed (once again).
I was just thinking about this from a player's point of view. I didn't say "It' a game". You can't ban me. If you do, well, I was going to go away, anyway. You can't stop me! I win! Roar! (Ah, is it medicine time already?)
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Not very important anyway, since only 1 mission has been set in Subspace. But since FS2 is rarely very accurate in the fields of physics (in the sense that fighters are frighteningly slow), it doesn't really matter how fast stuff happens.
Anyway, I do not think that you can just "hang around" in Subspace, as Akalabeth.
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No. It's quite obvious that they left Capella. And they can't all get through the GDrax node at once, so what's left is the Supernode Theory.
Unless they committed mass suicide, but in that case they wouldn't have jumped when Capella detonated.
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I still like the option that the Saths jumped to subspace and either
a)the supernova triggered something inside subspace and maybe created the infamous Portal to HappinessTM
or
b)they just waited there and when the boom was over, jumped back into normal space.
Though I must admit that I'm not sure what good would come out of option b.
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Option b is impossible because if they waited a few days, the nebula would be extremely hot and they'd all fry (Capellan Barbecue Theory). If they waited a few weeks, they would still fry.
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Again, the ability to wait in subspace is supported where exactly in FS canon?
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It doesn't have to be; anything past the destruction is pure speculation anyway, and the games cover very little of the possibilities of the technologies used by all the races. The realm that you get into when discussing Capella is a realm where imagination and variety are more important than sticking to the facts laid down by :V:.
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Quite. The ultraturbo subspace portal isn't explained a lot in canon, either. There's just this "Maybe it is a portal that takes the Shivans back to their homes" part, and it is quite obvious that even Pertarch is really WTF after the Capella incident.
I tend to think, in a strictly non-canon way (there, now I said it), that traveling in subspace is kind of like driving a car. If you take proper roads, you can get from point A to point B in a fast and pleasant way. Of course, you can venture off from it as well, no one's stopping you. But we do know that driving around a forest with your regular car isn't that easy anymore. And this leads to the following: if the GTVA is only able to either use existing jump nodes or jump directly from one point to another within a system, who can tell what the Shivans might be able to do. It has been stated on some occasions even in canon material that the Shivans possess a much higher level understanding on subspace.
Let's state this again: the speculation above was purely non-canon, apart from the explicitly stated part.
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The Shivans easily circumvented the Antares-Deneb blockade through use of an unknown Jump Node.
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Yes. using an unknown node, or a node too unstable to be used.
That doesn't change the fact they still need nodes. And I don't think there are nodes surrounding the capella star.
Also, note that some of the Juggernauts didn't jump when Capella went kaboom. Why didn't they? Maybe the Sathanas juggertautsdon't bake and can take the heat?
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Also, note that some of the Juggernauts didn't jump when Capella went kaboom. Why didn't they? Maybe the Sathanas juggertautsdon't bake and can take the heat?
If you take a close look, you'll notice that the Saths that remain behind seem to go a bit dim. Maybe they ran out of power. Maybe some other catastrophical system failure. In any case, at least to me it seems pretty obvious that those particular Saths were pretty much unable to jump.
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Oh...so...the Saths died? :(
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Oh...so...the Saths died? :(
The ones that didnt jump died a horrible death, the ones that did presumably lived to kill another day.
It doesn't have to be; anything past the destruction is pure speculation anyway, and the games cover very little of the possibilities of the technologies used by all the races. The realm that you get into when discussing Capella is a realm where imagination and variety are more important than sticking to the facts laid down by :V:.
I disagree. While a person can freely speculate on events beyond FS2, the destruction of Capella is still a canon event and every facet of the visuals and following monologue has a purpose within the universe. If a person wants to make a campaign for example that follows FS2 more strictly, then going crazy with all kinds of imaginative stuff is really counterproductive. Of course, if someone wants to be more liberal than that imagination is welcome.
As of yet, I think I haven't played any campaigns that really have quite the same feel as FS2 or FS1 (and I include my own campaign in there as well). Which isn't to say there's anything wrong with that, they're lots of fun. But its hard to emulate the feel I think (voice-acting aside). And if someone wanted to, they'd have to stick to canon as much as possible.