Make a Sathanas ib FREDI was referring to the concept, "plot-wise."
Check the invulnerable flag
Done
About the beams, how would the Shivans know the GTVA had them until they attacked once again?
Or just speculating. Surely the Shivans noticed during the Great War that especially the Terrans had this annoying habit of adapting to different situations and, more importantly, studying and reverse-engineering Shivan tehcnologies. It wouldn't be hard to guess that maybe they observed the Lucy's flux cannons and decided to study beam weapon technology.About the beams, how would the Shivans know the GTVA had them until they attacked once again?
Computer simulations, I would guess. They would have enough data for that.
if the sathanas had Lucifer esque shields, it wouldnt be hurtable with non beam weapons, making bearbaiting quite unnescessary
Maybe the technology of the shields was lost when the lucifer exploded andsince the wreckage is trapped in Sol there's not much chance of getting it back. This could be possible considering there wasn't more than one lucifer.
Beams go right through player shields and damage the hull without depleting them. One common explanation is that they'd go right through Lucifer shields too. Thus making them those shield pretty much useless against other capships. Balanced against the fact that the shield generators are a weakness in subspace it's probably not worth having them on a Sathanas.
1) V has stated that the Ancients were only 20 years ahead of the FS1 Terrans/Vasudans in all areas except subspace technology. This might mean that the Ancients have beam tech.
I'm pretty sure the statement came from after the release of FS2 anyway. So to Mobius: :ha:I'm not the only one who feels like that when I get in a discussion with Mobius?
IMO Terrans and Vasudans only got beam weaponry because of their encounter with the Shivans. Therefore I doubt the Ancients had beam weapons with their 2355 equivalent technology.Quote from: KarajormaBeams go right through player shields and damage the hull without depleting them. One common explanation is that they'd go right through Lucifer shields too. Thus making them those shield pretty much useless against other capships. Balanced against the fact that the shield generators are a weakness in subspace it's probably not worth having them on a Sathanas.
1) V has stated that the Ancients were only 20 years ahead of the FS1 Terrans/Vasudans in all areas except subspace technology. This might mean that the Ancients have beam tech.
2) In FS1 cutscenes, the Ancients seem to talk about the invincibility of the Lucifer even though they found out how to destroy it at the very end. In other words, they couldn't beam through those shields.
So perhaps the Lucifer's shields were invulnerable or very resistant to beam fire. We don't know. In terms of "what V intended", I just write it off as a plot hole that Volition didn't care for.
The supernova of Capella, the star they determined would be perfect for the job, would end life in the galaxy as we knew it, if the shockwaves in subspace were allowed to travel along the subspace conduits that connect stars.
Only then would the scientists-made-refugees be led to Altair, where remains of the Ancients would lead them to better subspace technology.
If shield's don't block beams (which most people are saying, I don't see whyI believe I have read somewhere that :v: actually stated that the energy output of a beam cannon is enough to punch through the shields. Which is why the GTVA assumed that the Colossus could stop yet another Shivan invasion; even another Lucy. This would also at least partially explain why AAAf beams pierce fighter shields. Note that I'm not sure about this, though. I think I remember reading this, but I'm not certain.
Why doesn't your shield go to zero as so as yiu get hit then?Does your entire house collapse if you drill a hole through the wall?
I tend to think that the beams themselves are quite thin, but when they react with the (mostly non-existing) gases and particles in space, a big, shiny and graphically pleasing light effect occurs.
No arguments here, Mr. Trent.I tend to think that the beams themselves are quite thin, but when they react with the (mostly non-existing) gases and particles in space, a big, shiny and graphically pleasing light effect occurs.
I think it's because Health & Safety ordered the GTVA to add gases into their beams so you could see where they were. Like tracer rounds. Apparently the Shivans also have Health & Safety.
Maybe AAAf beams have been designed so, that they don't care about shields; just go through.I was under the impression that anti cap ship beams also pierced fighter shields. It's rare to survive long enough to see if shields are still up.
Well don't forget that the back of the box says that the Shivans are wondering what happened to their scouting party.
So the Shivans might send out lucifer fleets to wipe out species that first develop subspace drive technology. The fighters with their shields, and the lucifer with its super shields, would be invincible against a species without beam weapons. By a lucky shot and a one-chance-in-a-million strike mission, the Terrans and Vasudans managed to take advantage of the Lucifer's subspace weakness and survive where the Ancients and countless other species failed.
Since the shivans found in FS2 are in a nebula system, one might assume they are either part of the main bulk of the Shivan military, which eschews shields in favor of overwhelming firepower against beam-using enemies, OR are another specialized type of fleet. Lucifer fleets are genocide fleets against undeveloped foes, Sathanis fleets are containment fleets against more advanced foes. Blowing up Capella nicely cut off the GTVA from Shivan (sub?)space, didn't it?
...which would cause the subspace shockwave from the Capella star (the star they deemed perfect to get back) going supernova to travel along the subspace nodes and wipe out every charted system in the galaxy. So, they attacked us to get us to cut off Capella.Why didn't the Shivans destroy the nodes themselves? If they had never opened fire on GTA or PVN vessels would they have been able to pass through unhindered?
Hang on, the Shivans are the Guardians of Subspace I thought. Why would they be promoting the destuction of nodes?
Well don't forget that the back of the box says that the Shivans are wondering what happened to their scouting party.
So the Shivans might send out lucifer fleets to wipe out species that first develop subspace drive technology. The fighters with their shields, and the lucifer with its super shields, would be invincible against a species without beam weapons. By a lucky shot and a one-chance-in-a-million strike mission, the Terrans and Vasudans managed to take advantage of the Lucifer's subspace weakness and survive where the Ancients and countless other species failed.
Since the shivans found in FS2 are in a nebula system, one might assume they are either part of the main bulk of the Shivan military, which eschews shields in favor of overwhelming firepower against beam-using enemies, OR are another specialized type of fleet. Lucifer fleets are genocide fleets against undeveloped foes, Sathanis fleets are containment fleets against more advanced foes. Blowing up Capella nicely cut off the GTVA from Shivan (sub?)space, didn't it?
The GTVA cutting off Capella from the Shivans let the Shivans blow up Capella without destroying the rest of Terran-Vasudan space so the Shivans could get home to subspace. The Lucifer was there to let the Terrans and Vasudans know that they're powerful and that they can destroy us, so they'll cut off Capella later on. I don't like to think of the Shivans as mindless killing machines with no other wish than to destroy people. I think they're smarter than that. I mean, look at it: if the Shivans just wanted to kill everything, then there would be nothing to do, no motivation for anything on a galactic scale. And the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
they were going to destroy earth....they were going to kill every single vasudan and terran! They are not JUST trying to get home :doubt: they are ass****...
That could work. The shivan fleets are refugees. That would make us mass murderers.Still, as far as we know, they shot first.
I dont know. Maybe the shivans take Aliens experimenting on their kind personally, like someone insulted their mother.
I dont know. Maybe the shivans take Aliens experimenting on their kind personally, like someone insulted their mother.
Insulting someone's mother is a reason for war? A reason to sacrifice millions of their kind?
And the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
:lol:QuoteAnd the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
Well they sure did a bang-up job of that at Vasuda Prime.
"Bzzexxxbzzzzrrrt! I thought I told you to set the Lucifer's beam cannons to Hug, not Annihilate!"
QuoteAnd the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
Well they sure did a bang-up job of that at Vasuda Prime.
"Bzzexxxbzzzzrrrt! I thought I told you to set the Lucifer's beam cannons to Hug, not Annihilate!"
Umm... Vasudans? Say what you want about Vasuda Prime, but for Vasudans, it's still their home.QuoteAnd the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
Well they sure did a bang-up job of that at Vasuda Prime.
"Bzzexxxbzzzzrrrt! I thought I told you to set the Lucifer's beam cannons to Hug, not Annihilate!"
Would you rather they let everything along every subspace connection to Capella get wiped out? Or just a couple planets that they were still able to evacuate a lot of people from? Who'd want to live on Vasuda Prime anyway?
Yeah, even though where I live is a desert, I wouldn't want it to get destroyed. But all this brings up a huge flaw in my theory: why couldn't the Shivans have simply built a communications device similar to our own and get their xenolinguists to figure out how to communicate with us?Umm... Vasudans? Say what you want about Vasuda Prime, but for Vasudans, it's still their home.QuoteAnd the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
Well they sure did a bang-up job of that at Vasuda Prime.
"Bzzexxxbzzzzrrrt! I thought I told you to set the Lucifer's beam cannons to Hug, not Annihilate!"
Would you rather they let everything along every subspace connection to Capella get wiped out? Or just a couple planets that they were still able to evacuate a lot of people from? Who'd want to live on Vasuda Prime anyway?
Yeah, even though where I live is a desert, I wouldn't want it to get destroyed. But all this brings up a huge flaw in my theory: why couldn't the Shivans have simply built a communications device similar to our own and get their xenolinguists to figure out how to communicate with us?Umm... Vasudans? Say what you want about Vasuda Prime, but for Vasudans, it's still their home.QuoteAnd the Shivans aren't destroying for resources, they're destroying the resources. I think they're just trying to get home, but don't want to hurt people.
Well they sure did a bang-up job of that at Vasuda Prime.
"Bzzexxxbzzzzrrrt! I thought I told you to set the Lucifer's beam cannons to Hug, not Annihilate!"
Would you rather they let everything along every subspace connection to Capella get wiped out? Or just a couple planets that they were still able to evacuate a lot of people from? Who'd want to live on Vasuda Prime anyway?
So now you're trying to support my theory? They had plenty of time, they built the Lucifer on the way from the other side of the galaxy. How hard could it be to scan our communications systems with their advanced sensors and build one?Yeah, even though where I live is a desert, I wouldn't want it to get destroyed. But all this brings up a huge flaw in my theory: why couldn't the Shivans have simply built a communications device similar to our own and get their xenolinguists to figure out how to communicate with us?
They don't have slaves to build them an ETAK.
Or maybe, they were in too much of a hurry.
Or *points to the theory about plasma communication*
IMO it would be because beam cannons would be able to pierce the shields. No canon evidence but still logical.
Otherwise, in my stupid theory (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Snail's_Theory) I think that the Shivans in FS1 and the Shivans in FS2 were not in contact with each other for thousands of years, and the FS1 Shivans were the only ones who "invented" the cap shielding. No canon evidence for that either, but whatever.
Then the GTA/PVN comes along, the ancient Lucifer fleet is still nearby and eventually attacks them but once they're destroyed the Shivans are all gone. Then 20 years later, some douche bag turns on the portal and re-opens the door to shivans and from out of the portal comes the new, advanced Shivan fleet.
Then the GTA/PVN comes along, the ancient Lucifer fleet is still nearby and eventually attacks them but once they're destroyed the Shivans are all gone. Then 20 years later, some douche bag turns on the portal and re-opens the door to shivans and from out of the portal comes the new, advanced Shivan fleet.
Bosch had the portal opened so he could ally with the Shivans. He didn't intend for a second great war, it just happened that way.
Ie "Belgium" could be the worst Shivan swear-word
"I seem to be having a great deal of difficulty with my lifestyle lately" the worst insult imaginable to a shivan
Any greeting/friendship message - A very rude comment about the Shivan's Mother
Lucifer is 12 times smaller than a Sathanas and needs much less energy to have it working. Sathanas would need aprox 60-62 reactors.Where'd you get that figure? The Colossus, which is 12km long, fits 12 Lucies, as said by the cutscene. The Sathanas is 6km long, about half the size of the Colossus (well, maybe 2/3 the size, if you're actually going by volume).
Where'd you get that figure? The Colossus, which is 12km long, fits 12 Lucies, as said by the cutscene. The Sathanas is 6km long, about half the size of the Colossus (well, maybe 2/3 the size, if you're actually going by volume).
The Lucifer fleet came through the Knossos, and then in desperation to stem the tide the Ancients turned off the Gamma Draconis Knossos. So the Lucifer was trapped here, but that didnt matter since the Ancients couldn't touch it anyway. So the Lucifer wipes out the Ancients, and its fleet goes around looking for other guys.Interesting... but still I would have expected rather more technological change in 8 millennia. According to Wikipedia, which is Completely Reliable [citation needed], three thousand years after the Ancient-Shivan war humans invented... the wheel. Hence I suspect that Shivans utterly suck at developing tech, and got their tech from someone else. Possibly this donor race was also a Shivan creator race. The Shivans may still have had enough creativity to shrink beam cannons so they can fit on non-Lucy ships.
some douche bagAn entirely fair description of Bosch, regardless of his intentions.
Hm. Where'd I get 12 from? I gotta start paying more attention to these things...Where'd you get that figure? The Colossus, which is 12km long, fits 12 Lucies, as said by the cutscene. The Sathanas is 6km long, about half the size of the Colossus (well, maybe 2/3 the size, if you're actually going by volume).
Wrong.
The Colossus is 6km, as is the Sathanas. :rolleyes:
Interesting... but still I would have expected rather more technological change in 8 millennia. According to Wikipedia, which is Completely Reliable [citation needed], three thousand years after the Ancient-Shivan war humans invented... the wheel. Hence I suspect that Shivans utterly suck at developing tech, and got their tech from someone else. Possibly this donor race was also a Shivan creator race. The Shivans may still have had enough creativity to shrink beam cannons so they can fit on non-Lucy ships.
Yeah, well you know what Hawking or some other famous guy said about the possibly of contacting alien races. If we ever do find aliens, odds are they're going to be "Apes or Angels". Meaning, far less advanced than us or mind-boggling advanced.Arthur C Clarke
If the Shivans were angels (or more accurately, demons) there wouldn't be much of a game would there? Having advanced races stagnate is a fairly common thread in popular sci fi as it allows the backwards humans to catch up. So I'd say leave it at:I prefer to minimise handwaving. Also, saying Shivans got their tech from somewhere else involves a new race, which itself opens up new plot possibilities.
"The Shivans are really old and can wipe the floor with us, but because they're not too advanced it's still fun when they're doing it."
This raises another question? Did the collie ever do any orbital bombardments against ntf positions on planets. Probably not, but it could definitely do it lucy style if needed.She'd need some adjustments to the beams she uses against ships, they all have a range of ~4km. The ISS orbits Earth at around 340km up. Hmm... :drevil: *goes off to make a Planetary Bombardment Beam...*
5 reactors to get the lucifer fully shielded, that's sort of unnecessary since it's just a destroyer and in the fs1 era tv ships wouldn't have been able to stand toe to toe with it anyway because of the lucy's beams.In both cases, their handful of main beam cannons could be otherwise destroyed by bombers, rendering them tough-to-kill but much less dangerous. Neither have great secondary armament.
And why would a sath need shielding anyway? They're so hard to destroy, it takes a couple of coordinated strikes with a lot of forces to take one down.
Well, if you take a look at the FS2 Lucifer, you'll see it's originally über beams were replaced with SReds, which may mean they are extremely weak already by the time FS2 comes in.:eek2: :wtf: I don't remember posting that... :nervous: :shaking:
HAHAHA Happy april ****ing fools you ****ers! I was wondering why my post in this thread has mars name on it :mad: :no:Ohhhh... I get it... Jerk... :ick:
Ohhhh... I get it... Jerk... :ick:Back at you. I never enjoyed april fools at all, and this username switch up thing needs to happen.
I just thought of another way to do something like this if one were to make a mod, so you can have it impervious to laser/plasma and projectile weapons, but no beam weapons. Make an addition to the armor table that multiplies laser/plasma and projectile weapons' damage by 0, but leave beams alone. Can't believe I didn't think of that sooner :snipe:... This'll be a big part of the GTVJ Judaculla. Mm, hmm, 4 giant matter/antimatter reactors to power the weapons, new bio-neural computer technology to make the weapons far more accurate, 4 GINORMOUS matter/antimatter reactors to power the engines (top speed of 65 m/s), and a Lucy-style shield generator that's bigger (~1.7x) than the Lucifer herself. 3 huge hangars that together hold 100 wings of 4 ships each, 5x BFRed, 28x BFGreen, more flak and blob turrets than I want to count... The turrets alone are probably going to take a month, what with school and all :doubt:. I'm making the blueprints in the GIMP, making use of the Bank Gothic font :D.
(And yes, it's going to be a joint effort with the Terrans and Vasudans, this time with a Vasudan CO (Prince Khonsu IV (Khonsu V is the new Vasudan emperor))).
5x BFRed, 28x BFGreen, more flak and blob turrets than I want to count...If you're going to make an überjug, you may as well replace the blobs with something more useful, such as morning stars or kaysers. Although if it's immune to bombs anyway, it could only include beams.
An april fools juggie?
:mad: Now it says my post is done by haloboy :no:I meant whoever was changing the names up, not you.Ohhhh... I get it... Jerk... :ick:Back at you. I never enjoyed april fools at all, and this username switch up thing needs to happen.