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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: blackhole on April 15, 2008, 10:26:57 pm

Title: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: blackhole on April 15, 2008, 10:26:57 pm
Quote from: http://www.physorg.com/news127499715.html
A 13-year-old German schoolboy corrected NASA's estimates on the chances of an asteroid colliding with Earth, a German newspaper reported Tuesday, after spotting the boffins had miscalculated.

Nico Marquardt used telescopic findings from the Institute of Astrophysics in Potsdam (AIP) to calculate that there was a 1 in 450 chance that the Apophis asteroid will collide with Earth, the Potsdamer Neuerster Nachrichten reported.

NASA had previously estimated the chances at only 1 in 45,000 but told its sister organisation, the European Space Agency (ESA), that the young whizzkid had got it right.

The schoolboy took into consideration the risk of Apophis running into one or more of the 40,000 satellites orbiting Earth during its path close to the planet on April 13 2029.

Those satellites travel at 3.07 kilometres a second (1.9 miles), at up to 35,880 kilometres above earth -- and the Apophis asteroid will pass by earth at a distance of 32,500 kilometres.

If the asteroid strikes a satellite in 2029, that will change its trajectory making it hit earth on its next orbit in 2036.

Both NASA and Marquardt agree that if the asteroid does collide with earth, it will create a ball of iron and iridium 320 metres (1049 feet) wide and weighing 200 billion tonnes, which will crash into the Atlantic Ocean.

The shockwaves from that would create huge tsunami waves, destroying both coastlines and inland areas, whilst creating a thick cloud of dust that would darken the skies indefinitely.

The 13-year old made his discovery as part of a regional science competition for which he submitted a project entitled: "Apophis -- The Killer Astroid."
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on April 15, 2008, 10:47:48 pm
Wonder what the odds are if you add in an estimate of all the additional junk that will be up there by 2029.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Mars on April 15, 2008, 10:50:28 pm
There's such a thing as calculating probability to the point that it doesn't mean anything anymore
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Nuclear1 on April 15, 2008, 11:55:59 pm
Thank you Duetsches Wunderkind for making us realize we are now actually 100x more likely to be hit by a killer asteroid. :blah:

Not that it's that likely even at 1 in 450, but still...
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Nuke on April 16, 2008, 04:16:36 am
i still think we should try to capture it :D
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Ashrak on April 16, 2008, 06:24:24 am
Thank you Duetsches Wunderkind for making us realize we are now actually 100x more likely to be hit by a killer asteroid. :blah:

Not that it's that likely even at 1 in 450, but still...

well getting pocket aces in texas holdem is 1 out of 220 and iv gotten em a LOT of times, so were ****ed.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: vyper on April 16, 2008, 06:43:57 am
Epic fail sir.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/16/esa_german_schoolboy_apophis_denial/

Quote
Widespread media reports claim that a German schoolboy has recalculated the likelihood of a deadly planet-smasher asteroid hitting the Earth, and found the catastrophe is enormously more likely than NASA thought. The boy's sums were said to have been checked by both NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA), and found to be correct.

There's only one problem with the story: the kid's sums are in fact wrong, NASA's are right, and the ESA swear blind they never said any different. An ESA spokesman in Germany told the Reg this morning: "A small boy did do these calculations, but he made a mistake... NASA's figures are correct."
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: perihelion on April 16, 2008, 08:22:55 am
But!- but!- but!... the Internets said!....  :shaking:  [/jibbering]
 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Windrunner on April 16, 2008, 08:33:29 am
Ah well nothing new, we are doing a fine job destroying this world our selfs, if the astreoid hits the us it will only finish the job that we have started.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Kosh on April 16, 2008, 08:46:00 am
Ok, so now that the chances of Apophis hitting us are suddenly so much greater, why aren't we building some kind of super missile or something to take it out just in case it gets too close?
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Hellstryker on April 16, 2008, 09:04:20 am
Don't kid yourself, that ****s already up there  ;)
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Flaser on April 16, 2008, 09:23:49 am
Because blowing it to bits this close to the planet may not help...and all those missiles would be very convinient to erase someone's country from the map - or to shoot their their nukes if they complain about it.

....beside sticking a solarsail on a comet and capturing it over a couple of decades would be a lot more economic and would grant us some much needed orbital mass to play around.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Kosh on April 16, 2008, 09:31:58 am
We already have thousands of missiles that can "erase other countries from the map", but we have none IIRC that can intercept an asteroid.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 16, 2008, 09:33:07 am

....beside sticking a solarsail on a comet and capturing it over a couple of decades would be a lot more economic and would grant us some much needed orbital mass to play around.

I've seen MAximum Overdrive.................
No way i want earth caught in a persistent comet tail.

On the plus side, MT could still be released before it hits,  ;7
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Grizzly on April 16, 2008, 09:52:26 am
So does this mean that the Elite 4 release date changes from "Before doomsday" to "Before Apobhis hits"?
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: admiral_wolf on April 16, 2008, 10:03:31 am
If command gives the go-ahead, I'll move the Galatea into Sol
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Colonol Dekker on April 16, 2008, 10:06:27 am
Good luck................

*CD is confused, either
A- he believes it's really out there,
or
B- he wishes it really was.......*


I need to get out more.....
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Goober5000 on April 16, 2008, 11:02:01 am
Obviously, they're covering up their admission of error. :p

Time to short iridium futures!
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Turambar on April 16, 2008, 12:09:00 pm
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2hem5mu.jpg)
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: BlackDove on April 16, 2008, 12:44:23 pm
Fatality.

Turambar WINS.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Mobius on April 16, 2008, 12:58:14 pm
"Apophis -- The Killer Astroid."
[/quote]

Eh?

There's time to destroy it or change its course. Where' the problem?
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Flipside on April 16, 2008, 05:52:09 pm
Time and practicality are two separate things. We have time to do something about it, but it's not actually all that certain that anything we can do will have any real effect, even hitting it with nukes isn't a certain bet, we don't have the technology to do that using an Earth-Launch until it is dangerously close, and orbital launchers are still more part of the whole 'Star-Wars' thing than a viable concept.

I suspect we could take action against it, but that action will still be hit or miss, we'd do better, to be honest, looking at something like a coilgun or particle accelerator of some description, you can launch from much further away, giving you a few goes at hitting it.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: IceFire on April 16, 2008, 06:16:23 pm
Apparently even the slightest nudge (in relative terms) would be enough to move this asteroid off course and away from us.  If it proves to be a problem I'm sure we'll be able to deal with it.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Kosh on April 16, 2008, 07:17:21 pm
Apparently even the slightest nudge (in relative terms) would be enough to move this asteroid off course and away from us.  If it proves to be a problem I'm sure we'll be able to deal with it.

Exactly, so why aren't we doing that?
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Nuke on April 16, 2008, 08:07:25 pm
the thing is going to pass really close to geosync orbit. if we capture it, it would give us something to build that space elevator thing off of.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Flipside on April 16, 2008, 09:00:27 pm
If it goes geo-sync, chances are it will be mined for iridium, I would have thought.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Mefustae on April 16, 2008, 09:14:06 pm
the thing is going to pass really close to geosync orbit. if we capture it, it would give us something to build that space elevator thing off of.
And just how do you expect to not only stop something with a mass roughly that of the Hoover Dam and moving at over 30 kilometres a second, but guide it into a stable orbit without losing it or raising the chance of an impact event?
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Flipside on April 16, 2008, 09:49:19 pm
I think the governmental reasoning behind the lack of action is as follows:

a) If we have weapons in orbit, we don't want the other guys finding out.
b) If we don't have weapons in orbit, we don't want the others guys putting some up there
c) It's very expensive to put a weapon in orbit, we can wait for the other guy to do it and then raise hell about it afterwards.
d) The longer we leave it, the more grateful everyone will be when we save them.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: General Battuta on April 16, 2008, 10:44:18 pm
UPDATE: turns out the boy's correction was wrong, NASA was right.

So much for that.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/16/esa_german_schoolboy_apophis_denial/
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: IceFire on April 16, 2008, 11:00:17 pm
So at this point it will make a very near pass and likely not cause any immediate issues.  I imagine that Apophis will be watched closely and if any refined calculations put the likelyhood in a more dangerous spot then something will be done.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Nuke on April 16, 2008, 11:12:43 pm
the thing is going to pass really close to geosync orbit. if we capture it, it would give us something to build that space elevator thing off of.
And just how do you expect to not only stop something with a mass roughly that of the Hoover Dam and moving at over 30 kilometres a second, but guide it into a stable orbit without losing it or raising the chance of an impact event?

its not like you have to launch the thing, just slow it down to geosync velocity. its not like we need to catch it the first time, its supposed to come back. as for how, a little thing called aerobraking. :nervous:
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: General Battuta on April 16, 2008, 11:20:38 pm
the thing is going to pass really close to geosync orbit. if we capture it, it would give us something to build that space elevator thing off of.
And just how do you expect to not only stop something with a mass roughly that of the Hoover Dam and moving at over 30 kilometres a second, but guide it into a stable orbit without losing it or raising the chance of an impact event?

its not like you have to launch the thing, just slow it down to geosync velocity. its not like we need to catch it the first time, its supposed to come back. as for how, a little thing called aerobraking. :nervous:

I'm pretty sure the risk/benefit analysis doesn't support that option.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Hellstryker on April 17, 2008, 12:02:33 am
UPDATE: turns out the boy's correction was wrong, NASA was right.

So much for that.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/16/esa_german_schoolboy_apophis_denial/

Lies. Why would NASA say he was right and then wrong again? somthing smells fishy >_>. I mean, they even claimed they never said differantly, which, of course, they did...
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Mars on April 17, 2008, 12:11:13 am
UPDATE: turns out the boy's correction was wrong, NASA was right.

So much for that.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/16/esa_german_schoolboy_apophis_denial/

Lies. Why would NASA say he was right and then wrong again? somthing smells fishy >_>. I mean, they even claimed they never said differantly, which, of course, they did...

Quote from: That Article
There's only one problem with the story: the kid's sums are in fact wrong, NASA's are right, and the ESA swear blind they never said any different
]
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Hellstryker on April 17, 2008, 12:14:12 am
UPDATE: turns out the boy's correction was wrong, NASA was right.

So much for that.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/16/esa_german_schoolboy_apophis_denial/

Lies. Why would NASA say he was right and then wrong again? somthing smells fishy >_>. I mean, they even claimed they never said differantly, which, of course, they did...

Quote from: That Article
There's only one problem with the story: the kid's sums are in fact wrong, NASA's are right, and the ESA swear blind they never said any different
]
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Stealth on April 17, 2008, 11:46:47 pm
i still think we should try to capture it :D

haha nice Nuke :p

reading through this thread, there are so many 'gold' comments.  i love it.  bookmarked! :D
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: watsisname on April 18, 2008, 06:01:28 am
I say what NEEDS to be done is for the government to put more funding into projects to help find the rest of the 'roids out there that can potentially hit us.  As of last year we've found about 60% of NEO's larger than 1km, and a whopping 4 or 5% of NEO's larger than 140 meters. 

A chunk of rock 140 meters wide hitting at ~20km/s can wipe out an entire city, so that's a bit worrisome.  Unless we find and track more of them then odds are we won't even catch the one that hits us.  :blah:
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: IceyJones on April 18, 2008, 06:35:37 am
jesus.....NEVER BELIEVE THE GERMAN "BILD"-"news"paper......

it´s like any other crappy tabloid press....

problem is, that it is common practice to copy articles from an agency and use them in their own newspaper. so it can happen, that a lie from BILD makes it into quick messages in normaly good newspapers....

but here a very good german article about this whole accident:
http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/weltall/0,1518,547965,00.html
here is the balbefish translation (very bad):
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fwissenschaft%2Fweltall%2F0%2C1518%2C547965%2C00.html

main problem of the BILD is, that thy interview professionals but the quotes are then cutted and/or put in wrong connection the to text in order to guide the reader to false conclusions....

main thing for them is to have a big headline! nothing more! i even don´t belive the date, printed in the bild.....
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: karajorma on April 19, 2008, 02:37:17 pm
A chunk of rock 140 meters wide hitting at ~20km/s can wipe out an entire city, so that's a bit worrisome.  Unless we find and track more of them then odds are we won't even catch the one that hits us.  :blah:

A chunk of iron 10m wide can wipe out a city. And given how we could stop those now it makes not putting something in place to deal with it stupid.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Mobius on April 20, 2008, 04:33:55 am
A very small object hitting a space station at high speed can cause immense damage, too.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: watsisname on April 20, 2008, 04:35:30 am
A chunk of rock 140 meters wide hitting at ~20km/s can wipe out an entire city, so that's a bit worrisome.  Unless we find and track more of them then odds are we won't even catch the one that hits us.  :blah:

A chunk of iron 10m wide can wipe out a city. And given how we could stop those now it makes not putting something in place to deal with it stupid.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying we shouldn't pay attention to the smaller sized objects, or how to protect ourselves from them.  I'm saying that we should broaden our scopes so we'd be less likely to be caught unawares by something really devestating. :)

Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Snail on April 20, 2008, 05:22:16 am
We should stock up on nukes, just to be safe.
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Nuke on April 20, 2008, 05:55:37 am
what? oh ok il put some ragnaroks in orbit, just don't piss me off too much :D
Title: Re: 13 Year Old German Corrects NASA
Post by: Snail on April 20, 2008, 06:05:57 am
what? oh ok il put some ragnaroks in orbit, just don't piss me off too much :D
Me wants a Charlie. :(