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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Setekh on January 28, 2001, 10:29:00 pm

Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on January 28, 2001, 10:29:00 pm
Okay, with all this talk of subsystems and critical hits and capship damage, it gave me an idea.

Think of an Orion, and the big spinning turrets it has on its top side. If you take one out, all you're left with is a stump where the thing used to be. That stump is a debris bit. Right?
Now imagine the Orion again. Imagine that it was made out of two HUGE subsystems - let's just call them neck and body. The neck is the long extending bit and the body is the bit with the engines and the fighterbay. Now if we could set it so that when one of those subsystems was destroyed - say the neck - it would just leave a stump behind, like a turret. The body of the ship would still survive, correct? And shooting at the neck would damage the neck subsytem only and not the body, right?
Okay. That was a very simple example. Let's make it more complicated: if there were 10 physically separated sections in the Orion, why not make each one of them a subsystem - so if one was destroyed, it would disappear and leave a stump. So you can take apart a ship, with each area taking damage and in effect, this would be geomodding the ship on a large scale, right?
And we could do it for all kinds of ships - like a Poseidon. It has those two arms which hold onto the cargo. What if those two arms were subsystems, and if an arm subsystem is destroyed, the physical arm is destroyed and leaves behind a stump! Do you see where I'm getting at?
Can we do this? It would be super-l33t!  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Shrike on January 28, 2001, 10:33:00 pm
I'm not an expert, but it sounds like it would also make a very complicated model.  Outta my league, at least for now.   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Fantomeye on January 28, 2001, 10:36:00 pm
It sounds like it could technically work. Though a lot of things work theoretically, but not in the game  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif) If I had the knowledge, I'd give it a go. That's a great idea!
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Jake Logan on January 28, 2001, 11:28:00 pm
perhaps making a big debris model that looks like an orion with a hole in the side so we can re-ennact the battle of deneb?
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on January 29, 2001, 12:36:00 am
Yes, that can be done. We can get a lucifer to blast a hole in it - that would look hella cool  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Fineus on January 29, 2001, 01:01:00 am
Setekh - good job dude!

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Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Jake Logan on January 29, 2001, 01:03:00 am
 (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)happy day! (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

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"I like tomatoes because they are so red"-Daveb
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on January 29, 2001, 01:24:00 am
If this goes off... it will give us a chance to study Shivan technology up close, and bag us a few live Shivans in the progress... errr, I mean, it'll be cool  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Fineus on January 29, 2001, 01:29:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
If this goes off... it will give us a chance to study Shivan technology up close, and bag us a few live Shivans in the progress... errr, I mean, it'll be cool   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)

Ladies and Gentlemen, This is what happens when we let an AWAC's gain intelligence. They become confused and idiotic. Don't do it!  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/lol.gif)

But seriously, the idea is definitely a good one.




------------------
  - ICQ: 57179504
Webmaster: Hard Light Productions ("http://www.3dap.com/hlp/")
Staffer and P1mp: Ross128 ("http://ross128.telefragged.com")   Sounds of Thunder ("http://ross128.telefragged.com/sot/index.shtml")

Fight the future!
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Admiral on January 29, 2001, 02:06:00 pm
You could cut something like an Aeolus in half by taking out two of three 'subsystems' on its 'neck'.  It would be better with the Colossus though.  You could have messages screaming about getting to the auxiliary bridge and so on.

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"All empires Fall. You just have to know where to push."
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Wraith on January 29, 2001, 04:09:00 pm
Yes, it would be cool.

No, it would not be easy.

*Wraith thinks of all the subobjects...*

*Wraith keels over, hits head and slumps to the floor*

In the words of Bobboau: "MAKE IT OUT OF ONE SUBOBJECT or else"

Understand my point?   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)

[This message has been edited by Wraith (edited 01-29-2001).]
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Fantomeye on January 29, 2001, 07:14:00 pm
I'm not really a Modder, but wouldn't it just be adding subsystems with the stats a turret has? Or am I just on space crack now?  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/spineyes.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on January 29, 2001, 07:53:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Wraith:
Understand my point?    (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)

I thought of this, and it would probably be the biggest problem. However if it can be done with turrets (and ships like the Apocalypse have proven we can make turrets, and lots of them, which can be destroyed), then I'm sure it can be done with other subsystems, just in different shapes.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fantomeye:
I'm not really a Modder, but wouldn't it just be adding subsystems with the stats a turret has?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm getting at - the only difference would be that it wouldn't be shaped like a turret, but instead, a part of a ship.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Wraith on January 29, 2001, 11:31:00 pm
Ohh, I see what you mean.

Well, what are you waiting for? Go make it!  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)


Good hunting,
-Wraith

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting."
-Colonel Townsend Whelen

Die like a hero; live on like a legend.

I am the infamous Wraith.
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Robin Varley on January 30, 2001, 03:35:00 am
It's a good idea and it would actually work, in fact there is a Volition model that does this - the GTI Ganymede, large sections of it can be blown off, it's damn impressive the first time you see it.

I might have a go at this, something simple first, ie a big box made up of little boxes.

The only problems I can see are, what bit do you have as the hull, 'cos this bit won't be able to be blown off.  Also what happens if you've got turrets that are supposed to be attached to that area of the ship, when subobjects go boom, there isn't any damage caused by the explosion, so they're going to look pretty suspicious just floating in space still shooting things.  A job for sexp's I think...
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on January 30, 2001, 05:00:00 am
Great! Oh BTW, is this also the same thing that happens with the NTF Boadicea, where chunks of 'asteroid' fly off? Or is that a sexp which sets it off?
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Admiral on January 30, 2001, 02:05:00 pm
Hmm, making all the sexps would be a pain.  Couldn't you just avoid putting turrets on that section of the ship.  It's not like all ships have turrets covering their hulls.  It would also make the mission more exciting, you could either deform the hull or take turrets out.

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"All empires Fall. You just have to know where to push."
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Robin Varley on January 30, 2001, 03:23:00 pm
turrets fire back...
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Bobboau on February 02, 2001, 02:59:00 am
tough this can technicaly be done, the Live devris (not the stump, that's diferent) code is cinda screwy for things that don't spin, at least in the little experience Ive had with it.
I tryed doing something simalare to this with the AD Thera, four months later I'm still not done.

though if you plan it properly you may be able to trick FS into doing it right.

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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on February 02, 2001, 06:42:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau:
I tryed doing something simalare to this with the AD Thera, four months later I'm still not done.

Sucky. BTW, can you get any shots of the Thera? I'd love to see the next iteration of Ancients ships, because all the others rock  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau:
though if you plan it properly you may be able to trick FS into doing it right.

There is still hope  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Jermeleon on February 03, 2001, 11:17:00 am
almost 8 months ago i started making a shpi in truespace and I already have some sections of the ship that can be destroyed and you can blow holes in the ship!  Hopefully I'l finish that ship someday.

How about an Aeolus where you can blow little chips out of the ship every other time you shoot it.  Eventually it wouldn't look like an Aeolus, more like a floating lump of mashed potatoes.

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Carnivore
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on February 04, 2001, 12:27:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Jermeleon:
How about an Aeolus where you can blow little chips out of the ship every other time you shoot it.  Eventually it wouldn't look like an Aeolus, more like a floating lump of mashed potatoes.

That's the whole idea  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)

Though by then the ship would probably be dead  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: IPAndrews on February 06, 2001, 03:47:00 am
I think you'd need lots of sub-models to achieve this effect. I'm not sure how FS2 would handle drawing that. Probably end up looking a bit screwy. I wouldn't go near live debris either. Serious headache inducer.
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Robin Varley on February 07, 2001, 05:57:00 am
What exactly are "live debris"

I'm thinking you mean the debris you get after destroying a sub object on a ship ie the bit of radar that fly off after you destroy it on an AWACS, as opposed to the debris you get after blowing the entire ship up.

Or do you mean the wrekage left behind still attached to the ship, like a destroyed turret for instance

[This message has been edited by Robin Varley (edited 02-07-2001).]
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Griffon UK on February 16, 2001, 05:48:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
Great! Oh BTW, is this also the same thing that happens with the NTF Boadicea, where chunks of 'asteroid' fly off? Or is that a sexp which sets it off?

The Asteroids *are* subsystems...  SEXP's blew them off...

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Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on February 16, 2001, 05:51:00 am
 
Quote
Originally posted by Griffon UK:
The Asteroids *are* subsystems...  SEXP's blew them off...

Yep. To my knowledge the Iceni in the middle is just a subsystem as well. But the Boadicea is specially made with debris pieces shaped like the asteroid bits - quite impressive.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Bobboau on February 16, 2001, 02:55:00 pm
not exactly

the Boadicea is just another vertion of the Iceni with a bunch of asteroids and bunkers and stuff added on, but it is a cool model. but the Iceni is the main hull, and everything else is just subobjects.

I just got an idea, would anyone be interested in a vertion if the Boadicea that does not degenerate into the Iceni.

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Bobboau, bringing you products that work.............. in theory
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on February 16, 2001, 11:18:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau:
the Boadicea is just another vertion of the Iceni with a bunch of asteroids and bunkers and stuff added on, but it is a cool model. but the Iceni is the main hull, and everything else is just subobjects.

I see... so that model inside is exactly the same one? Does that mean that damage done to the asteroid chunks would seep through to the main hull of the actual ship?

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau:
I just got an idea, would anyone be interested in a vertion if the Boadicea that does not degenerate into the Iceni.

Could be pretty cool... but what would you put inside it?
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Ace on February 19, 2001, 02:08:00 pm
On this whole subject, I know that Dark in most of his models have them fully degenerable. (at least from what I've seen of the AoD ships)

The PVI Karnak that was in Cardinal Spear and CS: Vega well over... umm... is it two years old now?  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/wink.gif) was fully destroyable in that fashion except that for mission's sake I worked up sexpts to make the station invunrible to fighter based weaponry until you fly in and take out the reactor. (the end effect with the subsections was that the vessel collapsed on itself as you were flying out)

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Ace
Staff member FreeSpace Watch
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Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Kazan on March 08, 2001, 07:28:00 pm
This is a good idea, but no offense it would look like crap IMHO... it wouldn't be natural

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Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on March 08, 2001, 11:35:00 pm
Oh well... got any better suggestions?  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Snipes on March 10, 2001, 12:31:00 pm
 
Quote
Originally posted by Fantomeye:
I'm not really a Modder, but wouldn't it just be adding subsystems with the stats a turret has? Or am I just on space crack now?   (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/spineyes.gif)

Just add $special=subsystem to the subobject, put it in the tbl, and it's destroyable  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/biggrin.gif)
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Setekh on March 10, 2001, 05:34:00 pm
The hard part would be getting FS2 to accept all those subobjects.
Title: A way to implement geo-moddable ship!
Post by: Nico on March 11, 2001, 07:17:00 am
Well it does for the bodycea, so why not for user made models?