Hard Light Productions Forums
Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: Retsof on May 04, 2008, 05:25:25 pm
-
When playing a subspace mission, shouldn't the jump out effect be reversed, like with a starfield behind it instead of using the normal blue-white effect.?
-
Yes, it should.
Good idea.
-
When playing a subspace mission, shouldn't the jump out effect be reversed, like with a starfield behind it instead of using the normal blue-white effect.?
'
Swirling piece of starfield instead of light?
A novel idea and worth some research. It would probably require adding a third subspace jump texture in addition to the normal and Knossos textures. Although, a mod with no Knossos missions could get away with replacing the Knossos effect with the Swirly Starfield effect.
More difficult to change would probably be the fact that the subspace effect uses - to my information - additive transparency blending, which means that black is going to be transparent and you would see through the starfield. I don't know if simply adding an alpha layer to the effect frames would simply switch the effect to use alpha blending...
-
This is why I presented it to the fine people of the FSU, because I would have no idea what i was doing.
-
When playing a subspace mission, shouldn't the jump out effect be reversed, like with a starfield behind it instead of using the normal blue-white effect.?
'
Swirling piece of starfield instead of light?
A novel idea and worth some research. It would probably require adding a third subspace jump texture in addition to the normal and Knossos textures. Although, a mod with no Knossos missions could get away with replacing the Knossos effect with the Swirly Starfield effect.
More difficult to change would probably be the fact that the subspace effect uses - to my information - additive transparency blending, which means that black is going to be transparent and you would see through the starfield. I don't know if simply adding an alpha layer to the effect frames would simply switch the effect to use alpha blending...
Or perhaps once there is a proper material system you could switch it to be subtractive.....
-
It always seemed to me like there was blue-white stuff being sucked into the tunnel.
I don't think the idea of swirling starfields would be good. Just coming out of the tunnel is fine.
-
like a static star texture with a swirling edge
-
like a static star texture with a swirling edge
Yes
-
Does SCP Support alpha blending/layering yet??? :confused:
-
:wtf: FS1 retail supported alpha blending. How do you think explosion effects, weapon blasts and shockwaves were rendered?
-
Bah i am a twat...
Ok i'm not gonna feign sounding clever in these matters, Is the realspace.pof gonna be doable at this point :P is what i should have said :D
-
I honestly don't see why not. All you need is to make a starfield image, copy the existing subspace warp into the alpha channel, then apply that to the current subspace.pof.
Swapping it out on a per-mission basis is, I think, a code issue. If someone can do it well maybe we'll see a warpfx.tbl that defines the normal, Knossos, and subspace warp effects. It would be useful for TBP and SWTC too, I think.
-
Mebbe someone can add the feature to the background editor, tack it onto that checkbox which says "takes place in subspace" or something along those lines :nervous:
-
I think Galemp's table idea was good. It could also be used to add more warp effects, if needed. Something like this:
$Warp: Normal
$POF File: warp.pof
$Texture: warp_normal
$Warp: Knossos
$POF File: warp.pof
$Texture: warp_knossos
$Warp: Subspace
$POF File: warp.pof
$Texture: warp_subspace
Then in FRED, have some field setting the warpin effect and warpout effect. Also have a sexp:
( set-warpout-effect
"Subspace"
"MyShip"
"MyOtherShip"
)
-
Or we could even hardwire it to the "takes place in subspace" thing, to save SEXP lines...
-
But hardcoding is bad for future-proofedness. Let's say you need another type of warp. What do you do then?
You could also have a set-warpout-effect-all, or a way to set the default warp effect in mission specs.
-
Still use the table entries, just make it so subspace defaults to the subspace warp so people don't forget (and so its more easily integrated without having to re-FRED every mission in subspace).
-
:yes:
Im up for the idea as well.
-
Well, technically it's possible. Proof of concept:
(http://i31.tinypic.com/35lgum8.png)
The problem here is this: the warp texture is scaled up based on the size of the ship making the jump. Stars should remain small dots. Upscaling makes them stretch and it looks dumb. 1024x1024 resolution is barely sufficient for medium-sized ships jumping out at reasonable distance; even on this shot there's some stretching already. Imagine how big blobs those stars would be with a Lucifer or Sathanas-sized ship...
Also, the subspace skybox needs some work on it. :blah:
So technically it's possible. I just wonder if it's possible to use texture-replacement on warp effect on mission-by-mission basis.
-
Er... Subspace shouldn't have a starfield behind it. It should look like this.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32989127@N00/173180298/sizes/o/
-
IMO, more like this:
(http://staff.hard-light.net/setekh/subspace-trial.jpg)
Just a little less blurry.
-
Er... Subspace shouldn't have a starfield behind it.
Oh ye of little faith. (http://www.mediafire.com/?jbolyeu4bax) ;7
...For those who don't want to download a 7MB short gameplay video of the effect, let it be said that all the stars in previous screenshots are part of the jump "vortex" effect. There are no stars on the skybox background.
-
My god... It's full of stars!
seriously, that effect is perfect. Perfect! :D Now let's get code support for it. The stretching doesn't matter one iota, it looks amazing as is... we can write off any stretching as being a byproduct of the space distortion resulting from the jump.
-
Delicious Caek (http://www.mediafire.com/?ow1dcoecz1w), 61x1024^2 DDS files + an EFF file. 18.97 MB download...
Overrides the normal jump effect. If you want it to replace the Knossos effect, just rename it to warpmap02* instead of warpmap01*.
Also. I did not post a model file with it because it looks pretty good either with any of the models available, or with 3dwarp disabled... the video used VA's rather recent model, here's a comparision shot using Axem's model (which has a swirly UVmap that makes the black/transparency transitions moving outwards into a spiral but stars stay stationary...):
(http://i32.tinypic.com/2h7m0yc.png)
Looks completely different but strangely appropriate... :)
EDIT: I'm mipmapping the DDS files with another filtering options that doesn't fade the stars out when it resizes the main layer... new file coming up sooner than later. Should keep stars visible from further as well as just from point blank range.
EDIT2: Link updated. For anyone who wants to see the older one for comparision, it's still here (http://www.mediafire.com/?mmketxj9mez).
-
Can you see how it looks on normal space? Should look distortiony, unless I understood something wrong.
-
That's cool looking :eek2:
But does subspace make any sense when they are coming from the sides? I always thought it was point A to point B (one "entrance" to the subspace tunnel and one "exit" - no in-between). What's your guys thought on that?
-
Beautiful :eek2:
-
NICE!
-
Well, I just looked at the code, and it looks like this would be pretty easy to implement. It would require a bit of discussion about the finer points of how things should work/interact though.
-
Well, there's the little tickbox for 'mission in subspace' that turns on a bunch of things like the skybox and ambient SFX. Why not have it use this effect by default, as well?
Oh, and Blowfish... if you're looking for something to do... can you pleeeeeez make it possible to use the Nebula Lightning Storm in subspace missions? :D
-
But does subspace make any sense...
...not much actually. :p
...when they are coming from the sides?
They aren't coming in "from the sides" (of the subspace skybox model, if that's what you meant), it just looks damn much like it. Basically they are jumping into middle of the corridor from a subspace vortext that opens a "window" into the normal space they are supposed to be coming from.
I always thought it was point A to point B (one "entrance" to the subspace tunnel and one "exit" - no in-between). What's your guys thought on that?
That's what this is supposed to be... What I'm thinking that for intersystem jumps, the ships jump into a common jump corridor, to which they have access from subspace nodes, and the blue-white swirly light coming from the vortex is a "window" into the jump node. Consequently, it would be logical to think that from the corridor, you should see normal space through the jump vortex.
Small distance, intra-system jump drives probably generate a ship-specific, limited jump corridor that behaves pretty much like the jump node-connecting big corridor, but disappears after use and can only be used for limited distances (d'oh). Same lighting dynamics apply though - you see into a corridor from normal space, and that means that in normal space, the effect should be swirly light vortex.
-
But does subspace make any sense...
...not much actually. :p
Ahh... ok :p
-
Hmm, I wonder if this should be moved to FreeSpace Modding, as this isn't actually about upgrading an existing effect but rather change the philosophy behind a certain effect group (jump vortices) from what it was in FreeSpace and FreeSpace 2.
-
I could see how this could turn into a thread discussing other ways to upgrade the subspace mission system (adding lightning storms, making it look more like FreespaceFreak's picture, etc.)
-
Since (as an FSU upgrade team member) I would like to see this integrated into the core Media VPs and actuvated by default in all subspace missions, I'd like to keep it here.
-
Since (as an FSU upgrade team member) I would like to see this integrated into the core Media VPs and actuvated by default in all subspace missions, I'd like to keep it here.
We talked about it in IRC with VA and he brought up an interesting point - canonically we don't ever see what the jumping out (or in for that matter) from a jump corridor looks like. Or, well, in one mission you do jump out if you phail the mission, but canonically that mission cannot be failed so clearly that is non-canon and we're free to change the effect for our purposes if we so want.
(rationalization for the win.) :p
So let it stay... I'd like to see this in MediaVP's as well. Especially as there's no canon evidence against it as was just proven.
-
It needs to be coded first ;)
-
It'd be pretty cool if you could make it look as though the ship were actually flying into the effect, too, rather than disappearing at the horizon. A pseudo guess as to how you might do this:
if((dotproduct(normalized(Viewer - Warper), Warper->fvec)) > 0)
{
do_effect();
do_clipping();
}
else
{
gr_buffer_set(READ_ONLY);
do_effect();
gr_buffer_set(READ_WRITE);
}
do_ship();
end_clipping();
Which would clip the ship if you were viewing it from the other side. Which would look pretty friggin' cool.
EDIT: Doh, on second thought, that wouldn't work at angles were the ship was longer than the apparent width of the effect. Oh well...
-
My god... It's full of stars!
Most. Appropriate. Quote. Ever. :D
And yeah, this effect looks really cool. :yes: I vote for it to be included in the mediaVPs, with SCP support. (It should be handled in the same way as the apply-loadout-to-wing and scrollable-command-briefing features: activated depending on whether the media file is present.)
-
activated depending on whether the media file is present.
Or maybe weather or not its defined in fireball.tbl
-
What the hell are you talking about? Subspace vortexes aren't defined in the fireball.tbl. :wtf:
-
What the hell are you talking about? Subspace vortexes aren't defined in the fireball.tbl. :wtf:
Yes, they are...
You can name the texture in the warp.pof to anything you want (I tested by naming it to "boogaloo", should it matter any bit at all) and the game will use the textures defined for the effect in fireball.tbl... namely warpmap01 and warpmap02 for normal and Knossos effect respectively.
Excerpt from retail fireball.tbl:
...
$Name: WarpMap01 ; Used for the warp in / warp out effect
$LOD: 4
$Name: WarpMap02 ; Used for the KNOSSOS warp in / warp out effect
$LOD: 4
...
-
That's odd, I just looked in the fireball.tbl before posting and found only explosion entries.
-
Oh god, let's get this. This is awesome. I just got my old pc back up and running for freespace after giving up on a solid mac version. And it took me a half day to figure out what the optimal versions of everything were again. I settled on normal maps with 1112 and 1119 double shader setup (to avoid the nameplate issue) and the march Xt build. And the 3.6.10 betas. And it's significantly nicer than I remember, especially the new beams and the shivan shield effects, they look excellent. And thank GOD widescreen/reticle weirdness is fixed. That really sucked for a long time.
But this.... oh, the majesty.
-
like a static star texture with a swirling edge
:welcomesilver:
Welcome to the HLPBB!!! :D
I think the effect should be boosted by a texture distortion...please note that the jump effect shows up many waves...
-
Actually goober's complaint was my only one as well, it would be cool if the ship didn't disappear when you can see it going in, but did when viewed from behind the effect. I'd hope to see that fixed somehow.
-
Actually goober's complaint was my only one as well, it would be cool if the ship didn't disappear when you can see it going in, but did when viewed from behind the effect. I'd hope to see that fixed somehow.
I tried to do something like that with shaders, but it's not really possible in a compatible way with the current capabilities of the code. What I was trying to do was to fade the ship away as it approaches the clip plane rather than having it disappear. It would basically give the illusion of fog or something that the ship is passing into. I never was able to get it working properly though.
-
Well, this is what it should look like IMHO:
(http://i28.tinypic.com/35bcbqa.png)
Get it on full size, then watch it with eyes crossed; it should look as if the stars are at infinite* distance (along with subspace surroundings) and the subspace vortex is closer to the viewer so the parallax between the viewpoints shows that the stars are not glued onto the vortex' surface but instead are seen through the vortex...
Is it possible to somehow make a model that is only visible from the inside, then have an outside texture that is also see-through except on the vortex's place you could see to the "inside" of the sphere...?
Like this:
(http://i32.tinypic.com/511r0z.gif)
-
Actually goober's complaint was my only one as well, it would be cool if the ship didn't disappear when you can see it going in, but did when viewed from behind the effect. I'd hope to see that fixed somehow.
I think that's the first time I've been mixed up with Goober...
I was thinking that it would be possible if you took advantage of RTT to render the ship once in the mission, and then again on the texture of the warp effect. The problems would be, first of all, you'd have to render a starfield, then the ship, and then clip the render using the effect (ie replace the alpha channel of the RTT texture with the effect texture). Second of all, I don't understand the math well enough to know right off how to make it look as if you were looking through the node, rather than at a flat texture. I think you'd have to move the 'camera' rendering the ship onto the texture.
But if you were able to do all that, especially the latter, you would have a very good starting point for doing Portals like in Portal or Prey. I'd say that it's worth undertaking, but I'm not taking it on right now.
-
:necro:
Does anyone happen to still have this effect somewhere? I seem to have removed the file from my MediaFire account (if I even had an account at the time) and I don't have access to my own PC at the moment.
I could just make a new one of course, but still...
-
What's an "in-transit jump effect?"
-
It's a subspace vortex, except how it would potentially look while jumping OUT from the subspace, not into the corridor.
Basically, a swirling vortex of alpha masked piece of starfield. I had the effect uploaded along with a video of it in action, but MEdiaFire has eaten the links.
Zacam graciously offered to upload it as soon as he gets home, so it's being taken care of.
-
Oh ok :)
-
;-)
-
Eh? Wrong thread if we're discussing subspace mechanics.
One thing that struck me though, is the possibility of using the ends of the corridor as suns. I mean, it bothers the heck out of me when ships are pitch black (with no emissive light) in subspace corridors, even though the walls are swirling white/blue.
-
Increase ambient light in mission editor, it should help.