Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Aardwolf on May 10, 2008, 10:44:30 pm
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I'm about to start on a new game (the same one I started that other thread (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,53704.new.html#new) for).
I decided that doing a realistic or pseudo-realistic depiction was too much work. Does anybody have any ideas for a slightly less-realistic way to do an FTL (Faster Than Light) system in a game?
I would prefer something that appears in front of the ship and the ship passes through (although with Newtonian physics defining that is not so easy), and I was thinking it would be interesting to have it possible for small ships like fighters to enter through the same effect created by a large ship (sort of like the FS1 Endgame cutscene with the fighters coming out of the vortex, but in reverse as well).
However, other suggestions are still welcome.
But please, no infinite improbability drives!
I am approaching this (in this thread) from an aesthetics and programmability perspective, whereas in the other thread I was approaching it from a geometric/mathematical/quasi-physical perspective.
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What about some sort of mirror effect. Something that reflects your image (and anything around you) back until you pass into the event horizon. Could be 2d, water like, or a 3d sphere.
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Allow me to bounce this idea off of you; give me your reaction:
An effect that sort of ripples off the hull of the ship that is producing the warp field, sort of like the retail FS2 shockwave but not as ugly. It starts at one or more points on the hull, and spreads around the hull rapidly, then after a delay of some fraction of a second, it bursts into space, starting with the area it started with. So there'd be a delay of some fraction of a second between the point when a part of the hull gets covered by the glowy stuff and when the glowy stuff bursts away from the hull into space. It wouldn't be too bright either... sort of like the round pulse that the Sathanai produce when they supernova the Capella star in brightness.
Not only does it spread around the hull of the ship that is producing it, but if the field/wave has enough strength when it reaches a nearby ship, it will ripple off of that ship as well, and it might (opinions appreciated) cause them to jump with the ship, or they might have to voluntarily sync their jump drive with the big ship.
So when the jump field gets big enough or cools down enough or something, some secondary effect appears (or maybe it is left over from when the ripple leaves the ship?), like the hull glowing with some colors and light and stuff, and it would probably flash bright white, and then the ships vanish.
I'm not sure what it'd look like in 1st person, or what it'd look like while in transit.
Your thoughts?
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just use portals
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While a possibility, the idea of a planar portal is unappealing to me, as in a space game, particularly one with Newtonian physics, it would have to have some sort of barrier to prevent entry from the sides. It would also force me to define arbitrarily a behavior for approach from the backside of the portal.
As for a 3d region that shows what is on the other side, that is possible, but I fear that my laptop computer is unable to do such applications as render-to-texture, which would greatly facilitate my implementing such an effect in a game.
Comments are still welcome.
Also feedback on the idea I mentioned would be greatly appreciated.
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Are you talking about an effect something like a FS2 jump with a lightning like effect? The "lightning" could arc to the smaller ships in some sort of chaining effect. Any ship that picks up enough of the energy could also jump. Also has the evil side of a possible use as a weapon. Ships just out of range that get hit by the arc could be destroyed when the rest jump.
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Try an abstract representation of a space-folding drive. Such as the ship moving forward under sublight power, encountering a sort of "membrane", and forcing itself through only to disappear as the membrane shatters.
Either that, or just rip off Galactica and have the ship moving along happily, flash, and inexplicably reappear in a flash at its destination, preserving momentum of course.
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Are you talking about an effect something like a FS2 jump with a lightning like effect? The "lightning" could arc to the smaller ships in some sort of chaining effect. Any ship that picks up enough of the energy could also jump. Also has the evil side of a possible use as a weapon. Ships just out of range that get hit by the arc could be destroyed when the rest jump.
No, not really. More like a ... how to describe it ... sort of a sticky shockwave, I guess? I'm not sure how you got that idea from what I wrote, actually... I was thinking actually that it might be better to limit the effect so that it only affect ships that deliberately 'tap into' the field. However, doing so would be fairly easy, so small fighters could pursue a fleeing enemy ship, etc. However, doing so could leave them stranded in an unknown location.
just rip off Galactica [...] flash, and inexplicably reappear in a flash at its destination, preserving momentum of course.
No offense to BSG, but I don't really care for that effect. I mean, sure, it's simple, but it's a little too simple.
I have thought about the idea I came up with a little more, and I think I've decided what it might look like when ships emerge from this FTL transit system back into normal space...
Imagine the end result of the effect, or a little before. There is a wispy glow, possibly some distortion, in a shape sort of like the ships that were affected, but much larger, and with most of the angles smoothed out during the expansion of the wave.
Basically, the warp-in effect would be the same as the warp-out effect, but in reverse. The wispy maybe-distorted glows shrink around the ships sort of like shrink wrap, and increase in brightness as they get closer. At the moments when the effect passes through the hull, it is exactly parallel to the hull at that point, and the hull there appears (being invisible before), and is glowing, like it is just before the ships jump out. The thickened, shrink-wrapped wisps are now gone, and the glow fades, revealing the hull in normal colors.
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lagrange point ?
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I like the glowing/flash idea, but there's another way you could take it:
A number of points on the tail/engine section of the ship glow brightly for a second or two, then that glow slides over the hull toward the front of the ship, converging onto a single point, which is then 'fired' a short distance out in front. This point then expands back to the original glow points on the engines, enveloping the ship and anything nearby before vanishing (this last bit is almost instantaneous).
As for returning to normal space, just have the glowing bubble flash into place and burst leaving its occupants stationary.
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lagrange point ?
Win.
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While a possibility, the idea of a planar portal is unappealing to me, as in a space game, particularly one with Newtonian physics, it would have to have some sort of barrier to prevent entry from the sides. It would also force me to define arbitrarily a behavior for approach from the backside of the portal.
As for a 3d region that shows what is on the other side, that is possible, but I fear that my laptop computer is unable to do such applications as render-to-texture, which would greatly facilitate my implementing such an effect in a game.
Comments are still welcome.
Also feedback on the idea I mentioned would be greatly appreciated.
Read Hell's Gate from Linda Evans and David Weber if you want a "sensible" Portal. Simply put: when you look into a portal from "Departure-South" - you see through into another part of space with a given orientation we shall call "Destination-North". When you approach the same portal from "Departure-North" and look through it, you will see "Destination-South". Of course Departure-and-Destination N-S orientation could have any relation to each other (in other words there is no "common" reference).
As for approaching from the sides: the portal is a true 2D object, hence it has no measurable depth. To prevent pilots from getting sliced by it, you could render some sort of glow (...with some sort of explanation about virtual particles getting split by the portal to explain it) around the edge.
Also since it has no depth, if you do a perfect "dead on" approach on its plane, you will simply go by it, and the portal through you as there is nothing to interact with the ship. However such and approach is impossible to do some lateral drift (even from the Braun movement of the particles in the ship) will always be present, and hence part of the ship will go over the portal threshold, "cutting the ship in half". So touching the side of the portal would be "instant-kill" as far as game-mechanics go.
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I don't know much about 3D graphics rendering, but one idea that came to mind is type of redshift (leaving area)/blueshift (arriving area) with some kind of elongation. Star gate type of animation for the portal itself, like water ripples?
I have no idea how heavy these effects would be computing wise.
Mika
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lagrange point ?
was going to suggest the I-war series here.
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my totally un-scientific approach.....
Einstein was wrong, and time is standard. just have ships accelerate till they go super fast....
:p
you did sat unscientific!
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my totally un-scientific approach.....
Einstein was wrong, and time is standard. just have ships accelerate till they go super fast....
:p
you did sat unscientific!
No need to go that far. Just say that, at some unspecified point in the future, scientists artificially increased the speed of light to many times its current value, allowing for hyper-fast travel without breaking relativity.
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Perhaps depleted vacuum, deflection, momentum shielding, or even local mass inversion.
All kinds of crazy ways to travel FTL without breaking the rules.
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Not only does it spread around the hull of the ship that is producing it, but if the field/wave has enough strength when it reaches a nearby ship, it will ripple off of that ship as well, and it might (opinions appreciated) cause them to jump with the ship, or they might have to voluntarily sync their jump drive with the big ship.
Your thoughts?
I've always rather thought this sort of thing wouldn't be good for somebody else caught in it, rather like what happens to a ship caught in the jump wake of a K-F Drive in BattleTech. During the last few seconds before the jump you would be putting a lot of energy out into space directly and/or indirectly, and it can't really be good for anybody nearby. Depending on their degree of protection and distance from the jumping ship they may end up anything from temporarily sensor-blinded to damaged to slag to vaporized.
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Short distance, rapid acceleration, then flash. Like Starlancers autopilot/jump. (Before the jump gate)
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You should create a field of engine wash around the ship, expanding as it warms up to jump -- that'd be dramatic and fun. Is that possible?
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Here's a working concept video:
http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/CarrierAssault/JumpTest2b.avi
Edit:
A newer version:
http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/CarrierAssault/JumpTest2c.avi
2nd Edit:
In order to better show it off:
http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/CarrierAssault/JumpTest2d.avi
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Since nobody's replying, I decided I would post a little something for you guys to play with:
Jump Effect Demo v003 (http://www.game-warden.com/masterpokey/CarrierAssault/CarrierAssault003.zip)
Edit:
This makes use of Cg shaders, so if your computer doesn't support that, get a new one!
Edit:
That means you, Nuke.
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I'll take a look at this tomorrow... promised I would check it out, but for tonight I'm running short on time. :ick:
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I'm not sure about entry but I really like the exit effect from Macross Plus. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N3HbsdlkQg
Okay, I don't like it as much as I remember, but I do like is all the little particles falling off the ship. Would be cool to have a ship rip into normal space and have a bunch of whatever particles fall off the hull like it just tore through a waterfall or somesuch.
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Aardwolf, my comments would be that the current effect looks more like an imaginary stealth field for me.
Mika
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what better way to hide from your enemy than to be going faster than all forms of radiation
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Here's a writeup of an idea I came up with today.
FTL Scheme Idea (sort of like FreeSpace's jump node system, but with a caveat and some things left up for later determination):
In order to go to warp/hyperspace/subspace/whatever, you must meet several conditions. First, your ship must be within a certain distance of some point (that is, it must be in a spherical region around said point); the point might be picked any number of ways, and there might be many such points that would have the same or similar results; also the spherical region might or might not be set off by some special effect, or maybe just a HUD overlay. Second, your ship must be pretty-well lined up in the direction you wish to travel (in normal space), e.g. to go from Sol to Alpha Centauri, you need to face Alpha Centauri. Thirdly, you must activate your jump drive while the first two conditions are true. When you activate your jump drive, your ship accelerates forward, and as it reaches some plane [or possibly a 3d surface with a maximum point at the place where the ship crosses it] in space perpendicular to the trajectory, all parts of the ship in front of that surface vanish. There might also be some sort of cool rippling effect on the surface. For a little bit (while in transit) the background looks like whatever subspace /hyperspace/it looks like. Then the same effect plays in reverse as you emerge on the other side.
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Hmm, could you do a bit more to explain how it's different from a regular old jump node? I'm not quite sure I follow the distinction.
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As said earlier i would probably go with having interstellar drive requiring either canceling masses or trojan points idea.. Which translate to different lagrangian points (namely 1 or 4 & 5) and certain recharge time (perhaps even a day or so) and/or other limitations like requiring fueling... And then adding fluff for additional interplanetary - ie. much more efficient and capable of operating in gravity well but a lot slower - FTL drive, like something capable of just single AU or so skips with sizeable recharge times (like 30 minutes) with each skip.
Such fluff could explain the existence of convoys which are sorta odd in FS universe as well give some grounds for further fluff involving MAC type ships.