Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on May 16, 2008, 07:56:29 pm
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I was reading this (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-are-there-just-too-many-people-in-the-world-828254.html) and started thinking. If there is any reason to make a serious push into space, this is it. Maybe it won't make the population start declining, but it would help to slow down its rate of growth by moving as many people as possible to off-world colonies.
Also we can use the resources from other worlds to help support the rest of the population on Earth. Running low on platinum for your fuel cells/catalytic converters/whatever? No problem, I was reading somewhere there was more platinum on just one asteroid (in the asteroid belt) than has ever been mined in the history of the world. Running low on natural gas? No problem, there are whole oceans of it on Triton. We as a people could accomplish many great things with the resources of an entire solar system at our disposal.
It is really something we should have done decades ago, but we didn't. We didn't because of an apathetic public who just didn't care. We never would have gone to the moon (or maybe even space) to begin with if it wasn't for the Soviets expressing interest in going there. Then after the first few moon landings no one cared about it anymore. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US had an amazing opportunity to focus on scientific discovery and developing the infrastructure for a permanent human presence in space (the ISS is peanuts compared to what we could have achieved if we tried). But unfortunately, it didn't do this and squandered its resources persueing global dominance. The US is now spending about $1 trillion (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JA24Ak04.html) on it's military establishment (counting all military related spending that are not on the "official" pentagon budget). But now with record budget deficits and an enormous debt, I think that window of opportunity has closed. It's a shame we did not expend such resources more wisely.
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I wonder how much that 1 trillion (as well as the 9.3 trillion (http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/) in the american national debt) would do to the exploration and research of space?
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my solution involves nukes, lots of them, and gatling guns with nuclear bullets :D
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We're going to be forced to expand into the solar system sooner or later, assuming we don't go with Nuke's idea.
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Suicide booths, clean polite mass killings, and the university of stupid people where stupid people go and never return :yes:
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Take off all the "caution: food is hot" lables, and see how many people die.
The most affective method of murder on a massive scale.
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I believe current predictions are that world population will peak at nine billion and begin declining around 2070. This from a UN projection, as I recall.
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Chinese population control methods in other countries?
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Chinese population control methods in other countries?
Do you honestly think westerners would accept that kind of policy?
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Chinese population control methods in other countries?
Do you honestly think westerners would accept that kind of policy?
Exactly. Hell, even the Chinese have found that hard to swallow. Sooner or later they're going to be forced into repealing the one-child rule, lest China become one, giant sausage-fest.
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Chinese population control methods in other countries?
Do you honestly think westerners would accept that kind of policy?
Westerners wouldn't have to since we aren't the ones breeding out of control. Europe's growth rate is pretty much flat and much of America's growth comes from immigrants.
Where the runaway population growth is coming from is places like Africa, Middle East, Central and South Asia.
Sooner or later they're going to be forced into repealing the one-child rule, lest China become one, giant sausage-fest.
Not any time soon, and certainly not until it falls below a certain point (not sure what that point is). It was put in place to stop a population explosion, and I don't think they will loosen it until they are sure it won't happen again.
I believe current predictions are that world population will peak at nine billion and begin declining around 2070. This from a UN projection, as I recall.
Maybe so, but the Earth can BARELY handle 6.5 billion as it is, do you really think it can deal with another 2.5 BILLION?
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more wars.
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Its really only the developing world that is breeding like nuts. Which is ironic because they are also the poorest and least capable to handle it. Which means that the US ends up paying to feed the starving children.
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So i meant to say soylent yellow, red, and green :yes:
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Its really only the developing world that is breeding like nuts. Which is ironic because they are also the poorest and least capable to handle it. Which means that the US ends up paying to feed the starving children.
While at the same time pushing ineffective, abstinence only based programs
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Its really only the developing world that is breeding like nuts. Which is ironic because they are also the poorest and least capable to handle it. Which means that the US ends up paying to feed the starving children.
This is ridiculous! The developing countries would be able to handle their population growth much better if they didnt had to export food and the like for your countries which require far more than what they need, so in the end the fault is also yours.
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Its really only the developing world that is breeding like nuts. Which is ironic because they are also the poorest and least capable to handle it. Which means that the US ends up paying to feed the starving children.
So don't listen to the starving children commercials then?
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Westerners wouldn't have to since we aren't the ones breeding out of control. Europe's growth rate is pretty much flat
isn't it actually decreasing? Only 1.9 child a family?
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Its really only the developing world that is breeding like nuts. Which is ironic because they are also the poorest and least capable to handle it. Which means that the US ends up paying to feed the starving children.
This is ridiculous! The developing countries would be able to handle their population growth much better if they didnt had to export food and the like for your countries which require far more than what they need, so in the end the fault is also yours.
That's a fallacy. The primary problem with developing countries is culture. They have not yet gone through the cultural shift which accompanies medical progress and leads to a much lower birthrate. If you study the demographics carefully, the primary cause of strife in most developing nations is the birthrate, followed closely by the age-sex pyramid (mostly young people). This puts a huge strain on their economies and social systems, ultimately causing severe strife and frequently collapse. Food exports don't even begin to factor into it.
Unfortunately, in most developing nations children are still seen as something which makes your economic survival more likely (unlike developed nations, in which children are largely seen as a drain on economic resources and thus are not produced wholesale to support the family), which encourages large family size. That also leads to large numbers of youth, and ultimately large numbers of young adults for which the infrastructure is incapable of providing job. The extremely high unemployment rate causes social chaos.
At any rate, there is a direct correlation between the birthrate and the economic wellbeing of a country and its citizenry. Countries with birthrates around replacement (2.1) fare better than anyone else. Countries with birthrates lower than replacement are going to run into population problems (unless they allow their immigration levels to compensate), and countries with birthrates well above replacement have a whole host of problems already which are just being exacerbated.
Fortunately the good news is we're already starting to see the signs of the baby boom in developing nations - where death rate falls dramatically while birth rate remains high, causing a population spike. This is good news, because a dramatic decline in the death rate is always followed by a dramatic decline in the birth rate. So, we're starting to see the signs of a necessary population shift which will ultimately allow many of these nations to cope better than they have been.
For further reading on this sort of demography, look up "The Poverty Trap." It's a widely accepted demographic theory that is deeply nuanced. Unfortunately, it would take about 4 pages to adequately explain it here =)
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snip
I agree with what you said, but my point was that if we didnt had to export everything we have to the developed countries, we would have the means and resources to support our population.
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That is true. Countries like the United States (where I live :nervous:) are very wasteful when it comes to resources. This planet has more than enough resources for us all, plus the other plants/animals/fungi/microorganisms that live on this planet. We're just throwing it all away.
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Europe warehouses mountains of food each year. It's not about resources vs. demand, it's about economics.
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Europe warehouses mountains of food each year. It's not about resources vs. demand, it's about economics.
Yah, the good 'ole EU CAP
Can't sell that pile of food without devaluing the market? Cool! Burn it! Anyone bring the marshmallows?