Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: eliex on May 25, 2008, 04:21:40 am
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I was watching a trailer on Youtube, and actually I never considered why the GTVA or Shivans never invented ship-to-ship grappling hooks when capital ship broadship battles. :)
It could be pretty good actually, Destroyer A fires a grappling line into a breach of Destroyer B, then whoo-hoo, soldiers might swoop into Destroyer B "space marine" style and turn it into a land battle.
Transports are so fragile, and are virtually defenceless.
Anyway, what do you think?
Actually, I realize that it might be a *little* bit ridiculous come to think about it. :o
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What about...
...the shape of ships prevents that from happening? And what's the point in risking a destroyer when you can sortie small tranports escorted by fighters and therefore protected by most anti-capship weapons?
Destroyers are important tools, that's not a good way to use them.
Your concept it's worth consideration in case of evacuation procedures and transfer of marines in a contested station...
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Actually, I've wondered why transports seek the hatch when capturing a ship, instead of just cutting straight through to the bridge, or somewhere else instead of the airlock.
I know its the way FS2 is built, but still I wonder if its possible to make it such that the transport just attaches to the hull direct instead of having to slow and maneuver to its docking point.
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FS2 hulls can withstand a nuclear detonation at point blank range. What the hell were you going to cut through them with? :D
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An Elysium wasn't even able to penetrate the hull of a Cain...
If you want you can simply add more dockpoints to the ships.
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Besides, even if they did tried capturing a large vessel, it'll require eliminating the fighter screen, disabling the ship, and clearing out most of its weapons. I also doubt a single troop transport can take the ship, so they'll probably have to devote 3-5 individual transport that would dock all around the ship. Then there would probably be tense combat before they can effectively take control of the ship.
It's just too much work, too risky, and a huge lost of lives.
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Not if you gain the space superiority.
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FS2 hulls can withstand a nuclear detonation at point blank range. What the hell were you going to cut through them with? :D
Stormkeeper's Cut-Thru-It-All Beam!
Yea, I just realised the Helios is an antimatter bomb and takes a helluva long time to smash a destroyer, so you'd need like a concentrated beam of anti-matter. Or a Portal gun!
Besides, even if they did tried capturing a large vessel, it'll require eliminating the fighter screen, disabling the ship, and clearing out most of its weapons. I also doubt a single troop transport can take the ship, so they'll probably have to devote 3-5 individual transport that would dock all around the ship. Then there would probably be tense combat before they can effectively take control of the ship.
It's just too much work, too risky, and a huge lost of lives.
Do the Homeworld approach. Tractor it into the Colossus :D
Also, I'd just find a way to blow out their life support and let them die on their own.
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The Shivans are doing it, according to the FSRefBible. But they don't need lines.
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What happens if someone jumps while you're hooked to them?
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That's why you disable the ship first.
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Then why bother hooking them? Where are they going to go?
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It would also be bad to hook onto a ship only to find out that it's engines are better than yours as it's dragging you right into the path of a rear BFRed.
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It would also be bad to hook onto a ship only to find out that it's engines are better than yours as it's dragging you right into the path of a rear BFRed.
Wow, that would suck.
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And a well placed beam weapon would probably cut all the ties
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Why not purpose build a ship, like the assault shuttles of the Thebans in Starfire?
It's a ship that actually burrows into the capship, and has several exits on its surface to insure some of them open into the target's interior.
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Because it would probably kill a large number of the crew and require lots and lots of repair?
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Two words, Ion Cannon.
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Actually I was thinking about
Destroyer A fires a railgun bolt into a side-turret of Destroyer B. It blows up and kills anyone around, and there's fire everywhere.
The marines crash-land into the breach with a drop-pod using one of the grappling hooks, then attempt to make a sort of "landing point." :yes:
If the marines get driven off, Destroyer A can simply threaten Destroyer B a direct hit into its core with like 5 railguns, as the where the turret was is just an empty hole.
If the marines don't get driven off, they can rush into the destroyer's core and capture Destroyer B's reactor core. Then, Destroyer B would just have to surrender and Destroyer A gets a free ship!!
<hahahaha . . . > :ick:
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If you could get man size objects into an enemy ship I'd suggest you send a Helios rather than a marine.
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If you could get man size objects into an enemy ship I'd suggest you send a Helios rather than a marine.
I agrees, but the whole point is to capture, not vaporise.
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You disable it, blow the reactors, let life support go, everyone suffocates, then send in a boarding part with minimal troops since the enemy is already dead.
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They would blow the ship before they let themselves suffocate
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Why not bombard the ship with cobalt radiation weapons ? Kill the crew while leaving the ship undamaged.
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I would assume most crewmen are not of the same caliber as Marines and would surrender once the ship was boarded.
Once you start killing the crew every time a ship is disabled, expect every other ship to go kamikaze on you.
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Ion disruption fields + scrambler viruses + emp weapons + energy leeching weapons + cobalt radiation weapons = easy capture and no kamikaze!
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That sounds completely easy.
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... Not really. You realise that the more you devote weapons space to disablers and radiation weapons, the more useless it becomes in ship-to-ship combat and its point defense probably won't be too hot either. So the disabler will need to be escorted by other ships and fighter wings, or have very good ECM and the ability to jump with pin-point precision, e.g into the victim's blind spot.
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Or you could just disable/disarm it and send in Marines, like we've been doing forever.
You're going to need to keep the crew alive because if it becomes known that you're killing all the crews, they'll fight to the bitter end to keep you out, even at the expense of blowing up their own ship.
You're also not going to want to blow holes in the side of the ship.
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Well, either way would probably completly fail against Shivans.
Marines get slaughtered by Shivan crewmen, as witnessed in hallfight. Shivans also walk around in space with no need for suits...which means they're pretty radiation-immune to begin with...
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But you forgot one thing - who would crew the ship once you capture it ? You'd need another crew in the friendly destroyer, and it'd become overcrowded. And the hostile crew of the captured ship would be too hard to look after, and they'll be in control of the ship ( which means probs for the marines ).
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Well,
1) The ship wouldn't be exactly free. It'll still take a month or two to repair all the damage. If it's an alien ship, then it'll take even longer because scientists and technicians would have to study and possibly reverse engineer several of the controls. Hell, they'll need to study the alien language first as well.
2) I'm pretty sure every ship, or at least every destroyer are stationed with their own marines for such scenarios. Just look at the menu screen, you can see armed marines guarding doors.
Unless you have specialized tools, it won't be an easy task.
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But you forgot one thing - who would crew the ship once you capture it ? You'd need another crew in the friendly destroyer, and it'd become overcrowded. And the hostile crew of the captured ship would be too hard to look after, and they'll be in control of the ship ( which means probs for the marines ).
Creating some sort of computer device that will give enough control that the capturer can remotely pilot the the ship to a safe haven would eliminate the crew problem.
Well,
1) The ship wouldn't be exactly free. It'll still take a month or two to repair all the damage. If it's an alien ship, then it'll take even longer because scientists and technicians would have to study and possibly reverse engineer several of the controls. Hell, they'll need to study the alien language first as well.
2) I'm pretty sure every ship, or at least every destroyer are stationed with their own marines for such scenarios. Just look at the menu screen, you can see armed marines guarding doors.
Unless you have specialized tools, it won't be an easy task.
Capturing anything has never been easy.
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If a ship can be controled by a good AI, then why the hell are ships crewed ? And you need so many crew members for a reason. So no people to crew another ship.
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What i meant is that the computer is only powerful enough to pirate the ship's movement systems.
Ships are crewed because computers would never have been able to come up with and pull off the Keyes maneuver. :lol:
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There's also a reason why the GTVA never tried recapturing the ships stolen by the NTF. Because if it was possible to capture them, I'm sure the GTVA would've tried.
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It was because of the food they stocked the galley with... :shaking:
I'm for the "blast ship, vent atmosphere/poison crew, upload AI to pilot the hulk" method myself.
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But how can you do it ? The hostile destroyer will have the same amount of marines as your destroyer. You will need more troops than the destroyer has. And that's a lot. Besides, it's 14'000 total crew, right ? Just not worth it. Unless it was canon.
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But how can you do it ? The hostile destroyer will have the same amount of marines as your destroyer. You will need more troops than the destroyer has. And that's a lot. Besides, it's 14'000 total crew, right ? Just not worth it. Unless it was canon.
Honestly speaking, I wouldn't attempt to capture a destroyer with just one destroyer of my own. Possibly, one destroyer and two escort corvettes, plus two disablers, a EWACS and a troop transport. Its alot, yea, but you wouldn't go after an enemy destroyer unless there was something you absolutely wanted onboard.
And actually, I thought we were discussing ships in general, and you're more likely to capture lighter ships than go after a destroyer.
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Well. . . Destroyers are flagships, so it's much more important to capture it. Oh well. . . I just don't think it's a combat solution. Now if you did it secretly and not in battle, then it could work.
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Destroyers ARE flagships like ShadowGorrath said, and obviously, they don't come out into battle anytime one of their ships starts to get into a battle.
It's more tactical to grapple-hook cruisers with a corvette, because unless I wanted the Admiral of the opposing side, I'd just blow up the flagship. :D
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To be honest, why the hell would you need 10,000 over people to crew a ship if you can just pilot it with AI? I find that notion, even only for movement, a bit far fetched.
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There are a lot more jobs on a ship that just piloting it.
Do you think all 10,000 crewmembers are needed to steer the ship and make subspace jumps?
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There are a lot more jobs on a ship that just piloting it.
Do you think all 10,000 crewmembers are needed to steer the ship and make subspace jumps?
Well... 1 to captain, 1 to beat the drums, 9998 to row.
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http://usmilitary.about.com/od/enlistedjob1/a/navyjobs.htm
Check there, most of these would be transfereable. (except sub obviously) and i'd imagiun that numerous other roles would be concieved to fill even more specialised roles.. Beam core specialist etc and other crap :wakka: plus chef, 2nd rating.. never can have too many..
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I like my ROW idea better.
Imagine that. 9998 slaves ROWING!!
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<stiff upper lipped> We British have bad experiences with forcing Rowing on people. <stiff upper lipped>
Best to forget it ever happened... :shaking:
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Rowing a 1.2 km long ship or longer would take a huge amount of effort in water. In air it would never move. In space it would most likely fall to the highest gravity field nearby, honestly, what is there in space to pull yourself along with, it's a high quality vacuum, air is 100s of times more dense and easier to pull along on, water it even easier, stone is to hard to move the oar. how are a billion rowers going to row a 100m craft through space?! (i understand you were joking, i was too, this is a serious reply to a joke, not me thinking your the worst physics students in the universe)
Hmmm, AI can control a ship in the game, why not in the FS universe, have a score of unmanned destroyers with their waypoints and targets set by an Admiral in an argo sized and crewed ship a million mile away?
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Do you think all 10,000 crewmembers are needed to steer the ship and make subspace jumps?
I know, but I think you need a lot more than 0.0000 crewmembers needed to steer a ship and make subspace jumps.
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Row row row your Boat, gently down the Stream... :D
No seriously. To stear the Ship and keep it stabil, only the Engine and Bridge Crews are necessary. Anyone remembers Star Trek, where Cpt. Data is stearing the whole Enterprise by himself, with help of the Ships Computer ? I think there is a similar "Auto-Pilot" Function , inside Freespace Capships. Even our todays Jets have something like that.
The Problem is, if this Destroyer has it´s complete Crew (about 10.000), then you need a whole Corps to capture that Ship...i imagine the hundrets of Transporters docking on a Destroyer, just to capture it... :D
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This is not Star Trek.
I think it's stupid to believe that only an engine and bridge crew is necessary to crew a ship when there are usually 10,000 people on the thing. Remember when I said it wasn't Star Trek? I think there isn't a similar Auto Pilot function in FreeSpace capital ships, because then you wouldn't ****ing need 10,000 people on the thing.
Then again, there was the Bastion... Why am I always on the wrong side of an argument? :(
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I only took Star Trek as an Example, not as a fact.
And I assume thoose 10.000 People to be part of regular Troops, waiting to invade Planets etc.
Maybe they are just statists, like in Star Wars...running around without Sence... :D
I never read a Statement in Freespace, that there are no Auto Pilot Functions in Capships...so it might be possible.
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My argument is more or less ****ed since the Bastion was able to get to the node without any crew.
You win.
I hate life.
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But the Bastion couldn't maneuver, defend itself properly, and etc. Besides, it was remote controled. And you need people for NAV, Sensors, Comms, Weapons, Fighterbay ( rearm, pilot, supply, repair ), engines, engineers, bridge to control everything, life support control, maintenance, etc. You actually need the crew. An AI controlled ship couldn't support a crew or fighters/bombers. And AI can be outsmarted by people. Plus, AI doesn't have the 'instinct of survival', so you'd loose a lot of AI controled ships. And as far as I know, they are still expensive and need time to be built. Also, AI ships wouldn't be able to properly defend others. Sorry, writing from a phone, can't expand the ideas.
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My point is that all you have to do is cut life support, and power, then override the system and pirate the autopilot and force the destroyer to jump to a friendly station.
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And in the process kill the entire crew, that's never a good plan for taking a ship.
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And in the process kill the entire crew, that's never a good plan for taking a ship.
I thought we just wanted the ship, not the crew ?
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My first thought on seeing the topic and opening posts, all discussion of AI and remote-operation aside, was the idea of a Shivan vessel designed for ship capture. Which in and of itself is something of a quandry I suppose, since their instinct has more or less been "BLOW IT ALL TO HELL!!!" but eh...
So maybe you have a Terran vessel built for the same kind of ****-you tactics the Shivans enjoy. A ship perhaps cruiser-sized or so, whose forward section is just one big armored spike with a boarding tunnel. Add to that some big powerful engines and a few turrets (plus a fighter screen) for defense, and boom - one nasty ship-stealer. Let's see a destroyer dodge a spire like that driving straight for their midsection. Sure, it might take a beam hit or three, but you get a fighter screen to throw a couple Helios bombs their way, disable some turrets, you've got yourself a nice soft hole to drive that sucker into.
Maybe direct ship-to-ship collision is a bit over the top, but personally I like the idea of jamming a boarding party right down a destroyer's throat and into the hull... :D
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And in the process kill the entire crew, that's never a good plan for taking a ship.
I thought we just wanted the ship, not the crew ?
And that'll work... once. Then it'll be known the crew is gonna die no matter what.
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Then, you get a dramatic rise in the number of Kamikazes, and increased incidence of scuttling.
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And in the process kill the entire crew, that's never a good plan for taking a ship.
I thought we just wanted the ship, not the crew ?
And that'll work... once. Then it'll be known the crew is gonna die no matter what.
Who would know if it was a black op and you had awacs?
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You would need to use black ops and AWACs all the time then.
And oh yea the enemy would notice all their ships vanishing and put two and two together.
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Hey, another thing against capturing ships- no capital ship is without escort. Can you get through the escort that your losses are too light to capture the hostile ship ?
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Troopships from Conquest Frontier Wars are nice.
Small nippy craft, or heavy vblockade runners with numerous delivery pods / breaching / landing craft..
Or fly an assault shuttle into an orions hangar. That would work too, like a covenant style thing.
But i LOVED the ISSAPC's from Space: Above qand Beyond. (off topiucc- man i felt like i'd been punched inthe gut when i saw that final episode)
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IMO you still need crew in navigation, communications, sensors, etc. etc, not just people on the bridge. I'd say that there are people working computers or what have you in all the subsystem areas, so that you can't just blow up the bridge and be done with it.
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You would need to use black ops and AWACs all the time then.
And oh yea the enemy would notice all their ships vanishing and put two and two together.
TBH, I wouldn't capture ships very often.
Hey, another thing against capturing ships- no capital ship is without escort. Can you get through the escort that your losses are too light to capture the hostile ship ?
Yep. Rapid, overwhelming firepower in the face of an confused, unprepared opponent. IMO, if you were gonna capture the ship, you would know its route, and therefore, its escort. An appropriate counterforce could then be assembled, and precision jumped around the ship. Note that in FS2, ships could only be detected moments before exiting hyperspace, and I doubt that ships could bring their firepower to bear quick enough.
IMO you still need crew in navigation, communications, sensors, etc. etc, not just people on the bridge. I'd say that there are people working computers or what have you in all the subsystem areas, so that you can't just blow up the bridge and be done with it.
Like I said, ker-blamm life support, bombard the ship with radiation weapons and cobalt bombs and you win.
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There are probably more than 1 life support systems and they're probably protected. Electromagnetic radiation-resistant stuff is probably put over the hull.
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You would need to use black ops and AWACs all the time then.
And oh yea the enemy would notice all their ships vanishing and put two and two together.
TBH, I wouldn't capture ships very often.
Hey, another thing against capturing ships- no capital ship is without escort. Can you get through the escort that your losses are too light to capture the hostile ship ?
Yep. Rapid, overwhelming firepower in the face of an confused, unprepared opponent. IMO, if you were gonna capture the ship, you would know its route, and therefore, its escort. An appropriate counterforce could then be assembled, and precision jumped around the ship. Note that in FS2, ships could only be detected moments before exiting hyperspace, and I doubt that ships could bring their firepower to bear quick enough.
IMO you still need crew in navigation, communications, sensors, etc. etc, not just people on the bridge. I'd say that there are people working computers or what have you in all the subsystem areas, so that you can't just blow up the bridge and be done with it.
Like I said, ker-blamm life support, bombard the ship with radiation weapons and cobalt bombs and you win.
Exactly, you're putting a lot of time and effort into something you're not going to use very often.
Quite honestly a transport and some marines would be vastly easier. The only real reason to do this would be to get an intact ship, and you would almost spend as much time and effort as it would take to build one.
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IMO you still need crew in navigation, communications, sensors, etc. etc, not just people on the bridge. I'd say that there are people working computers or what have you in all the subsystem areas, so that you can't just blow up the bridge and be done with it.
Like I said, ker-blamm life support, bombard the ship with radiation weapons and cobalt bombs and you win.
It would be easier to blow the ship up. Not to mention that the hull is capable of surviving nuclear blast in the order of several gigatons (not to mention large scale anti-matter/matter reactions), so I'd say it can survive any attempt of radiation poisoning. And if by any chance it didn't survive radiation poisoning, you'd have a worthless radioactive metal chunk.
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There are probably more than 1 life support systems and they're probably protected. Electromagnetic radiation-resistant stuff is probably put over the hull.
If that's the case, the mole can just plant bombs in key locations and snuff out key systems. Or sabotage the ventilation system to pass carbon monoxide throughout the ship.
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You know there's a lot of radiation in space - the ships are obviously shielded from it
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Yea, I think that point was raised in the "why don't we use nukes instead of beams" thread.
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There are probably more than 1 life support systems and they're probably protected. Electromagnetic radiation-resistant stuff is probably put over the hull.
If that's the case, the mole can just plant bombs in key locations and snuff out key systems. Or sabotage the ventilation system to pass carbon monoxide throughout the ship.
Moles planting, bombs, radiation weapons, this is way too complex! Just blow out the engines and send in marines! :p
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There are probably more than 1 life support systems and they're probably protected. Electromagnetic radiation-resistant stuff is probably put over the hull.
If that's the case, the mole can just plant bombs in key locations and snuff out key systems. Or sabotage the ventilation system to pass carbon monoxide throughout the ship.
Moles planting, bombs, radiation weapons, this is way too complex! Just blow out the engines and send in marines! :p
That was one of my earlier ideas, yes. Most people had that idea. But storming a destroyer needs LOTS of marines.
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Yeah, but once its been disarmed and disabled, you can just cart them in by the bucketload.
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At least until reinforcements arrive
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Yeah, but once its been disarmed and disabled, you can just cart them in by the bucketload.
Or the captain of the ship decides it's better to blow up the ship along with everyone in it rather than have it fall to enemy hands. Now both sides lose, joy.
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Imo, i think creating an emp field will cut off remote self destruct controls.
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If that's the case, the mole can just plant bombs in key locations and snuff out key systems. Or sabotage the ventilation system to pass carbon monoxide throughout the ship.
Well in the main hall we can see some marines with guns guarding all the doors. I'm sure that if you don't have proper clearance that it'd be hard to get in. But seeing as it was a mole, I guess he would be able to get past security. However, some random dip**** walking around into all the life support rooms on the ship is bound to rouse suspicions.
And seeing how this is all in space, I'm sure people would have gas masks of some kind in case of hull breaches and all that stuff. So while you might get a few people with CO, I think they'd have enough sense to know what's going on and get their gas masks/space suits/wotevars on.
That was one of my earlier ideas, yes. Most people had that idea. But storming a destroyer needs LOTS of marines.
Well seeing as the majority of the 10,000 people on board would probably not be fully combat equipped, I don't think it'd be too hard to send in a few thousand marines to storm a ship. An Argo was described as carrying several hundred people on it during the mission Exodus ("Thousands of lives are at stake" or something along those lines), so I'd say ~8 Argo transports and a few well-placed Cyclops torpedoes would be able to take over the destroyer.
In the Shipyard demo mission, 5 Argos were used to take over a destroyer's skeleton crew, though they were stupidly deployed since they waited around. If they had been sent in one at a time they probably would have been harder to intercept...
Imo, i think creating an emp field will cut off remote self destruct controls.
Or "localizing the controls" (cutting off commands from the bridge) would probably be easier.
Yeah, but once its been disarmed and disabled, you can just cart them in by the bucketload.
Well as I said you probably don't need too much time to send in the marines (~10 minutes). An Orion has 2 docks in-game, I'm willing to bet it has more dispersed around the other sections of the ship.
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As long as one of those 10,000 people isn't named Gordon Freeman, with a Super Gravity Gun in hand ...
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Didn't the NTF manage to send a spy onboard the Colossus to sabotage its weapons?
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It was GTVI/SOC, because they wanted ETAK to be finished and then take it.
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Sorry to bring dead threads back to life but I liked this one so...
My first thought on seeing the topic and opening posts, all discussion of AI and remote-operation aside, was the idea of a Shivan vessel designed for ship capture. Which in and of itself is something of a quandry I suppose, since their instinct has more or less been "BLOW IT ALL TO HELL!!!" but eh...
So maybe you have a Terran vessel built for the same kind of ****-you tactics the Shivans enjoy. A ship perhaps cruiser-sized or so, whose forward section is just one big armored spike with a boarding tunnel. Add to that some big powerful engines and a few turrets (plus a fighter screen) for defense, and boom - one nasty ship-stealer. Let's see a destroyer dodge a spire like that driving straight for their midsection. Sure, it might take a beam hit or three, but you get a fighter screen to throw a couple Helios bombs their way, disable some turrets, you've got yourself a nice soft hole to drive that sucker into.
Maybe direct ship-to-ship collision is a bit over the top, but personally I like the idea of jamming a boarding party right down a destroyer's throat and into the hull... :D
Your idea is somewhat like I thought too, I was thinking about a cruicer o ship that would have attached to it's hull some let's say "escape pods" the difference is that they have a sharpened edge and a really big engine ... let's say apollo 13 like.. XD(and body too).
then the pod gets unatached from the hull and lurks arround aiming itsef to the destroyer (time to take it's engines down before it burst into the destroyer) and after some 30 secs it blows it's engines and flies right trought the destroyers hull (its possible dont tell me that nule proof thingy because were talking about lots of energy concentrated on a single point, the hull is bound to fail) after "dockin" peacefully over the destroyer, marines inside blow up a charge ubicated between the chamber were they are (somekind of blast door between) and the sharpened edge destroying the cover from inside to outside and sending a killing rain of bended metal and fire over whatever is from the other side thus making a peacefull beachhead for the marines to lurk into uncontested (unleast for a few minutes).
What about that? you like it? jojo
sorry if your eyes start to bleed it's because of my TERRIBLE english :P
PD: I was also wondering how is it possible to have 5000 people over a corvette (let's say deimos) and NOT HAVING any scape pods attached to it`s hull... maybe you could put some scape pods that follow the line of the design of the ships hull and add it as another different subsistem. (I used the deimos example as its preety easy to fugure out were the escape pods could be)
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Your idea is somewhat like I thought too, I was thinking about a cruicer o ship that would have attached to it's hull some let's say "escape pods" the difference is that they have a sharpened edge and a really big engine ... let's say apollo 13 like.. XD(and body too).
then the pod gets unatached from the hull and lurks arround aiming itsef to the destroyer (time to take it's engines down before it burst into the destroyer) and after some 30 secs it blows it's engines and flies right trought the destroyers hull (its possible dont tell me that nule proof thingy because were talking about lots of energy concentrated on a single point, the hull is bound to fail) after "dockin" peacefully over the destroyer, marines inside blow up a charge ubicated between the chamber were they are (somekind of blast door between) and the sharpened edge destroying the cover from inside to outside and sending a killing rain of bended metal and fire over whatever is from the other side thus making a peacefull beachhead for the marines to lurk into uncontested (unleast for a few minutes).
What about that? you like it? jojo
sorry if your eyes start to bleed it's because of my TERRIBLE english :P
PD: I was also wondering how is it possible to have 5000 people over a corvette (let's say deimos) and NOT HAVING any scape pods attached to it`s hull... maybe you could put some scape pods that follow the line of the design of the ships hull and add it as another different subsistem. (I used the deimos example as its preety easy to fugure out were the escape pods could be)
The problem is, ramming your ship into the enemy ship means your own crew will take casualties. Ramming another ship is just never a good idea unless you want to die too. Also, why would you need a specialized drone designed to ram itself into the enemy's engines? A wing of bomber that can do that jump fine and probably better as well. Bombers are also more versatile as they can perform more roles than a suicidal engine busting drone.
The hull of a destroyer is designed to withstand nuclear blasts. The best way to breach a destroyer's hull would probably be to dock on its docking ports and probably to just force a landing inside her fighterbay. Both options are very risky as the destroyer would still need to have its escort destroyed, its engines disabled, and its guns disarmed.
I'm not even sure if I read your post correctly. I had to read it over a few times before I could make a conclusion.
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The problem is, ramming your ship into the enemy ship means your own crew will take casualties. Ramming another ship is just never a good idea unless you want to die too. Also, why would you need a specialized drone designed to ram itself into the enemy's engines? A wing of bomber that can do that jump fine and probably better as well. Bombers are also more versatile as they can perform more roles than a suicidal engine busting drone.
The hull of a destroyer is designed to withstand nuclear blasts. The best way to breach a destroyer's hull would probably be to dock on its docking ports and probably to just force a landing inside her fighterbay. Both options are very risky as the destroyer would still need to have its escort destroyed, its engines disabled, and its guns disarmed.
I'm not even sure if I read your post correctly. I had to read it over a few times before I could make a conclusion.
well actually that thing about the engines between () was to mention that while aiming itself enemy pilots could use that time to destroy/disable the pod, for me there is no need to disable the destroyer, why would you want to do that if you are actually triying to steal it? it would make more sense to steal it while its functioning so you can or jump right away or send a second boarding party with the rest of the provisional crew to join the fight again (the second seems so difficult to actually happen), besides a disabled and dissarmed vessel is bound to have 15000 crew members doing nothing but hunt your marines XD.
About your own casualties, it's possible that some may die.... but then again... it's a game, not much that goes on in this makes sense, so marines could be crushed between cushions, or something like that.
Yes a bomber wing would do lots of that dirty work, but lets face this... the game gets redundant once you've seen all the possible aproaches or types of battles... well that's wat happens to me unleast.
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I think you're missing out on the fact that ships on FS can jump...
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And hop and skip. . . .
There's no B5 style recharge time either. That's my understanding, just repairs that more oft than not are made necessary.
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And hop and skip. . . .
There's no B5 style recharge time either. That's my understanding, just repairs that more oft than not are made necessary.
What is B5 style recharge time? Rather, I just need to know what B5 means. I'm completely clueless.
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Babylon 5.
Ships needed massive ammount of power to open that universe's token space portal. So when they did open one, it would take a while to get the energy necessary to open another one in their capacitors. At least the younger races.
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Yes :) i'm guessing in Vorlon space they use them as party lights. . .
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I dont get what you are triying to say.... I know ships can jump, but it a middle of a fight some commander would rather stay and back up it's accompaning fleet with the destroyer rather than giving up some ground to the enemy making everyone else jumping out, that way you have an scenario where there's a ship to capture, and a pod ready to do that, so the main event would be who get's the destroyer at the end of the fight?
I would personally board and capture a sathanas to make some research...then again, if in fs2 some scattered scans over the subs of the ship are enought to the technicians...well I guess that should do the trick, but we'll stay in the same forever, new type of ship, get some scans dammit! jojo
...I dont think I can go against volition's concepts in this subject, well in any subject ^^
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The scans only provided info on weak spots, not how it worked or anything like that.
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No worries, they actually capture a Sathanas in the Second Great War Part 2! :P
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I would personally board and capture a sathanas to make some research
The Sathanas took a hell lot to destroy, and you want to risk capturing it? Do you realise the immensity of the task you are proposing? An Orion crew is about 10 thousand terrans. The Sathanas has several times it's volume. It's crew is composed of shivans. And you want to try to capture that?
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They had trouble capturing a Shivan freighter/transport. (hallfight)
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They had trouble capturing a Shivan freighter/transport. (hallfight)
But that was 1 Elysium... 30 years ago.
You can try every Argo in the fleet, packed with fully armed and armored marines. Then, you just blow up the entrenched areas from the outside.
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mmmm maybe so... It's true is a massive vessel, but is it 100% sure its crowded with angry shivans?, maybe it's just like the saturn in PI, big warship but small crew..
anyway, that was an example I wasnt thinking about capturing a sathanas, just intended to make a point...why scan if you can have the hole thing and make retroingenier.
I guess human kind is not up to the task yet...
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No worries, they actually capture a Sathanas in the Second Great War Part 2! :P
I have to see that, downloading!
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They had trouble capturing a Shivan freighter/transport. (hallfight)
But that was 1 Elysium... 30 years ago.
You can try every Argo in the fleet, packed with fully armed and armored marines. Then, you just blow up the entrenched areas from the outside.
And they would be blown away by the Sathanas? Think of all it took to stop a single Sathanas. All those destroyers, all those fighters, all that for a single Sathanas. And that was to destroy it, no holding back. There's no way the GTVA can even dream of capturing it. Not even a Demon I'd wager.
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If they really wanted to, they might have been able to. Use destroyers to blow up its engines, then get a horde of fighters to disarm it, and a horde of Argos to board it. Of course, this would not work if there were reinforcements or anything.
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If they really wanted to, they might have been able to. Use destroyers to blow up its engines, then get a horde of fighters to disarm it, and a horde of Argos to board it. Of course, this would not work if there were reinforcements or anything.
If they couldn't stop it from going to Capella, what makes you think they can disable it's engines? It's not like the Sathanas is just laying about doing nothing.
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Yeah, it is impossible. :blah:
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We're all screwed. :wakka: Time to build some sleeper ships and pull a freelancer before they turn up.
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What happens if someone jumps while you're hooked to them?
You go jump out with them too.
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Jaja just played the mission where commander dont know who captures a sathanas jajaja, great plot turning XD
well but what about adding some escape pod to the corvettes?
I was also wondering how is it possible to have 5000 people over a corvette (let's say deimos) and NOT HAVING any scape pods attached to it`s hull... maybe you could put some scape pods that follow the line of the design of the ships hull and add it as another different subsistem. (I used the deimos example as its preety easy to fugure out were the escape pods could be)
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mmmm maybe so... It's true is a massive vessel, but is it 100% sure its crowded with angry shivans?, maybe it's just like the saturn in PI, big warship but small crew..
anyway, that was an example I wasnt thinking about capturing a sathanas, just intended to make a point...why scan if you can have the hole thing and make retroingenier.
I guess human kind is not up to the task yet...
Go recruit a couple hundred Predators to help you.
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Shivans have lasers too, you know.
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Plasma, not lasers. A laser would be a lame, weak beam.
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Yeah, plasma things attached to their arms. I doubt a lousy predator (or a hundred predators) could stand up to a Sath full of plasma cannon-wielding Shivans.
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Predators have plasmacasters (shoulder cannons to the lamen).
Discs,
stealth and wristblades,
spear launchers,
net guns,
plasma pistols.........
Gauntlet plasma bolts......
Naginatas,
Mauls (*curvy bat-leth thing)
The shruiken / smart disc variant
and a nuclear wriust watch.. i
think they could take the shivans :lol:
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I dont know.... having a plasma gun on their shoulder sure is annoying... maybe that's why they are so pissed of with the universe... XD
Figure una shivan having dinner and some other shivan comes and scare the **** out of it... before you know it the one in front of him has a hole in his chest, what a lame existence!!!
.. no jokes... no friendship... no allies (i would't like having a frikking plasma laser as a friend )
NowTHAT'S something to get pissed of about....
(this is turning into nonsence, sorry about that jaja but the forum sure needs a little push ^^ )
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Uh, no, we've got enough insanity here thanks.
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Well . . . I did start a topic a little while back about using monstroUS genetically modified space-freaks to rush into the ship . . . hopefully not damaging too much valueables . . .
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Well . . . I did start a topic a little while back about using monstroUS genetically modified space-freaks to rush into the ship . . . hopefully not damaging too much valueables . . .
Or getting loose on the transport ship and killing the unlucky bastards who got assigned to it.
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Just equip everyone with that squad support grenade launcher that took down the Shivan in Hallfight and don't worry too much about damage to the interior of the ship.
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For what?
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Taking a Sathanas. Or any Shivan ship. :P
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I think the GTVA have better weapons than that by now anyways. There was quite a fight onboard the Iceni ("Shivan bodies are among the dead..."). But the Shivans win anyway, they have lasers. I doubt the GTVA can match that without having to lug them around. The Shivans pee lasers.
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Maybe they replaced the portable ML-16 with a portable Subach
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Maybe they replaced the portable ML-16 with a portable Subach
Shivans on foot dont have shields. A Subach would be excessive. What they need are railguns or coilguns like a mini Maxim.
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no live captured shivan to test onto?? quite difficult to beliave.
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no live captured shivan to test onto?? quite difficult to beliave.
Nobody said anything about captured Shivans in this thread.
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no live captured shivan to test onto?? quite difficult to beliave.
Nobody said anything about captured Shivans in this thread.
I said that a Subach would be excessive since Shivans on foot didnt have shields.
Rodo just said that the best weapon could be tested with captured Shivans.
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Well the only known Shivan specimens were tested by the GTI, but seeing as the GTVA also captured the 4 Mara fighters I'd say it's safe to assume they have other specimens to experiment on.
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They could have captured unused fighters
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The point was to find live Shivan specimens to experiment on, not their fighters.
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Even if you do get control of a Shivan ship, you need a former NTF Admiral on board with ETAK knowledge, or you will never be able to get terran-capable commands on the Shivan ship when in the field.
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I doubt anyone other than Bosch, and a few of his friends, like Gibson and Sarno, knew anything about ETAK. I don't think anyone else really knew what he was planning. Even if they did, they certainly wouldn't know how to duplicate ETAK. And even if you did, who's to say the Shivan ship will listen to you? It can probably tell who's who.
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I doubt anyone other than Bosch, and a few of his friends, like Gibson and Sarno, knew anything about ETAK. I don't think anyone else really knew what he was planning. Even if they did, they certainly wouldn't know how to duplicate ETAK. And even if you did, who's to say the Shivan ship will listen to you? It can probably tell who's who.
Have you ever played The Second Great War Part 2?
A former, high level NTF Admiral gets command of a Fenris, and without bomber or fighter support he hijacks a Sathanas with the Fenris, then he takes control of it with ETAK knowledge that he conveniently had (since he was a high ranking NTF Admiral), and finally, blow up a bunch of Shivan ships and refuses to hand it over to the GTVA.
That was when I stopped playing that retarded campaign.
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Oh yeah, I almost forgot, SGWP2 is canon. (no sarcasm)
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The point was to find live Shivan specimens to experiment on, not their fighters.
I imagine they were mighty interested in the fighters too
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The point was to find live Shivan specimens to experiment on, not their fighters.
I imagine they were mighty interested in the fighters too
The question is boarding Shivan ships.
Fighters dont sit around INSIDE ships...
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yes but we don't know where they got those 4 fighters from (unless I missed that bit)
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All it says is that they were captured early in the nebular campaign, nothing more.
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So it's possible they were unused at the time of capture
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Yeah, but the GTVA probably have a few other specimens.
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It's really not hard to stick a few GTW Akheton SDGs on fighters and send them on a killing spree.
Ships disabled left and right. Then you tow them back to GTVA command, kill or capture the shivan inside, and reconfigure the ship.
Really not hard to capture a fighter.
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It's really not hard to stick a few GTW Akheton SDGs on fighters and send them on a killing spree.
Ships disabled left and right. Then you tow them back to GTVA command, kill or capture the shivan inside, and reconfigure the ship.
Really not hard to capture a fighter.
Am I the only one who thought "Enter the Dragon" was just plain hard?
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It wouldn't have been if all your wingmates were armed with S-Breakers and Disruptors.
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My retarded wingmen kept killing Arjuna 1 with interceptors before I get a chance to tell them "ignore my target". Its ghey.
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My retarded wingmen kept killing Arjuna 1 with interceptors before I get a chance to tell them "ignore my target". Its ghey.
Why couldn't you just tell them to "Disarm My Target"?
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It gets shot before I can issue an order sometimes >.> :S
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Now that is strange... :confused:
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Maybe I'm just slow at giving orders (I actually have to read which one is which)...its C-3...something...for ignore. I donno.
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I think the GTVA have better weapons than that by now anyways. There was quite a fight onboard the Iceni ("Shivan bodies are among the dead..."). But the Shivans win anyway, they have lasers. I doubt the GTVA can match that without having to lug them around. The Shivans pee lasers.
Doubt it. The Shivan we saw took three or four seconds to charge up before firing, and fired at range where it would have been easier just to slice the guy or smash him.
With a casuality figure in the thousands, we have to assume there were a lot of dead Shivans for them to stick out much. Arbitrarily assign the Iceni a crew figure of, say, 5000. Of these, very few will be marines, because for most purposes, marines are dead weight. Call it 100, perhaps 120 to make a full company. (This is probably too high; a platoon of 50 or 40 is much more likely.) Assume that there are 200 dead Shivans for them to be noticible (probably more honestly). Ship's crew would be useless in a fight, they're not trained for it, and they wouldn't be armed either. Still, say they account for...20 of the Shivans. This is unlikely but I've been generous with my figures so far, so why not?
That still means 120 NTF marines, who've been training to fight other humans this whole time, and not really very good marines otherwise they'd be deployed somewhere more useful, took down 180 Shivans. They traded at better than 1 for 1 in the conditions Shivans are superbly equipped for fighting in, and more importantly, they aren't. Anything really powerful will punch through your internal bulkheads and possibly ruin ship systems to the point a successful defense of the ship would be rendered pointless, so the best weapons wouldn't be issued for this sort of duty.
Weapons came a long way, or body armor did, or both, because apparently even when not trained for it and not equipped for it, the average marine in FS2 can go one-on-one with a Shivan at knife-fighting range and come out on top.
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Yes when that happens I go traitor and kill everything in the mission out of frustration.
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It's hard to think that shivans being so big as they are can move fast... Human marines should have not much of trouble with the aiming also... so I would count a couple more of shivans corpses to the turret's control crew, and some of the bridge command might also get a shot.
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IN the hallfight cutscene we can see that there is no gravity. That's how shivans seems to move fast and then have the superiority against humans. In the Iceni where there is gravity, maybe they didn't planned there would be gravity and then.. got killed more easily :D
By what I said, I'm assuming shivans aren't living on a planet (else they would be used to gravity)
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it is also important to note that the marines of the Iceni knew the ships like the back of theyr hand so they had a huge advantage from this POV. They could just lay down traps and stuff like that and kill shivans on mass. Remember terrans excell at defence not offence.
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I wonder if ships have fixed gun emplacements for defense or if it's just hand held weapons.
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Well, they SHOULD have internal turrets, just in case...It doesn't mean that they do though... :doubt:
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Well, they SHOULD have internal turrets, just in case...It doesn't mean that they do though... :doubt:
Yeah...the turrets must have precise shot accuracy, otherwise they might rip lots of holes in the ship's interior. :drevil:
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If they can take Nukes coming one way, I'd suspect they'd handle ballistics going the other :)
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If they can take Nukes coming one way, I'd suspect they'd handle ballistics going the other :)
You never know. It's always cheaper to make things strong one way or the other, not both. ;)
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Hehe, actually if you're talking about playing around with the structure of the metal, you could even have a point, it IS possible to make a metal that is incredibly strong to impacts in one direction, and yet malleable to impacts from the other.
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Besides, the exterior hull and interior bulkheads that subdivide the ship ain't the same thing. :P
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Hehe, actually if you're talking about playing around with the structure of the metal, you could even have a point, it IS possible to make a metal that is incredibly strong to impacts in one direction, and yet malleable to impacts from the other.
Like in MW4's reactive and reflective armor.
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I wonder if ships have fixed gun emplacements for defense or if it's just hand held weapons.
Hend-held for marine and something like a Mjolenier (Bad spelling) would have a fixed.
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I wonder if ships have fixed gun emplacements for defense or if it's just hand held weapons.
They probably should. I know for a fact Acclamator-class Cruisers had internal defense turrets.