Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: ShivanEmperor on May 28, 2008, 08:57:36 am
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Why do you think Admiral Aken Bosch hates Vasudans? He stated that he realised that humanity had no future with the vasudans but why? Whats wrong with them? Let me guess... they're scary? :doubt: Let out your thoughts here.
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He didn't hate Vasudans. He didn't like them either, but he thought that the two races cannot coexist. I'm guessing he only meant that the Terrans and Vasudans can't stand a chance against the Shivans, so an alliance with the Shivans would be a lot more beneficial. Or something.
But he also said it himself. He didn't directly hate the Vasudans, but only used it as an excuse to muster followers and use them to divert the majority of the GTVA from his true intentions.
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Bosch never hated Vasudans. It was, like Lobo said, an excuse. The NTF followers were the ones who truly hated Vasudans. Except with the exception of his closest followers.
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To ShivanEmperor :
:welcomered:
Bosch wanted an alliance with the Shivans. Nothing more to say... Better question would be on what happened to him and his "alliance".
One thing bothers me though- couldn't Bosch just been a good little admiral and, with his followers, simply get everything he wanted SILENTLY and PEACEFULLY ? It'd been much less bloody, and he wouldn't be remembered/known as a madman. But because he's done it so "loudly" ( the whole NTF rebelion ) it only shows that he's not a good leader- rebelion lost, he got "saved" a couple of times by GTVI and SOC ( because both GTVI and SOC wanted to get ETAK ).
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Also ShivanEmperor, you should check this out for another theory on why Bosch used the Vasudans as the scapegoats.
A Journey of the Forgotten (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28715.0.html)
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Maybe he lost some family back in the TVWar. (Makes me laugh every time i use that term) to be honest though. I don't like them because they walk around nekkid all the dang time.
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I'm not NTF but I hate the Vasudans too.
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Same reason that Hitler hates Jews.
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I have a pet theory, but I'm not telling. :p
One thing bothers me though- couldn't Bosch just been a good little admiral and, with his followers, simply get everything he wanted SILENTLY and PEACEFULLY ? It'd been much less bloody, and he wouldn't be remembered/known as a madman.
There was a silent threat once before, and we all know how well that went.
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There was a silent threat once before, and we all know how well that went.
Crashed and burned. One question though. The Hades really wasn't finished, so why'd they send it out ....?
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No other options?
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Still ... No weapons ? What kinda last resort was that. Scare us sh*tless with its amazing weaponlessness ?
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Um. It had weapons.
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Shock and awe. I know it was a while back but i remember thinking. Onoz we all dead! The first time i saw it.
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It killed the Orff :shaking:
I hope ST:R fixes that.
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Because he's a punk
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Bosch doesn't hate Vasudans, he's just using other people's hatred to get his personal army. I doubt the GTVA would let him dig around different places researching ETAK and trying to meet the Shivans again. (particularly the part about the Shivans). The idea of the rebellion was to make sure the GTVA was too busy to realize they're trying to communicate with the Shivans until its too late. (They would never have let the Trinity go to Gamma Drac, for example).
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Admiral Bosch did (and maybe still does) hate the Vasudans. He says it in one of the cutscenes.
What my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity, not my hatred of Vasudans. In the Gamma Draconis system the destroyers have returned and soon the alliance will learn the method behind my madness.*
Depending on when he became a pilot, he could have fought against the Vasudans before the Great War occurred.
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*The Wiki is a bit off on that quote, by the way.
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Admiral Bosch did (and maybe still does) hate the Vasudans. He says it in one of the cutscenes.
What my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity, not my hatred of Vasudans. In the Gamma Draconis system the destroyers have returned and soon the alliance will learn the method behind my madness.*
Depending on when he became a pilot, he could have fought against the Vasudans before the Great War occurred.
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Admiral Bosch did (and maybe still does) hate the Vasudans. He says it in one of the cutscenes.
What my enemies will never understand is that my rebellion is about my love for humanity, not my hatred of Vasudans. In the Gamma Draconis system the destroyers have returned and soon the alliance will learn the method behind my madness.*
Depending on when he became a pilot, he could have fought against the Vasudans before the Great War occurred.
He clearly states that he hates Vasudans. The "not" merely signifies that his hatred of them was not the reason why he rebelled against the GTVA.
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I hate Vasudans too. . Skinny freaks. (Sorry VA ;7) they were my first targets in the FS series and they attacked the Orff, that will always stay with me.
Not racist, just takes a while for me to forgive. :nod: Bosch is simply the same.
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It doesn't mean he hates them, it doesn't mean he doesn't hate them. It just means that he didn't do it out of hatred for them.
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It doesn't mean he hates them, it doesn't mean he doesn't hate them. It just means that he didn't do it out of hatred for them.
Yea, that's how I interpreted the line.
He's saying he didn't start the NTF because he hated Vasudans, but because he loved humanity, and wanted to protect them from the Shivans.
A noble cause, albiet taken the wrong way...
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I choose to side with the other interpretation, both are equally strong feelings, but he uses the patriotism over racism excuse. Your views are valid too of course. It gives him two dimensional depth which i like. It's the head of ocp, good honest evilness :)
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It doesn't mean he hates them, it doesn't mean he doesn't hate them. [...]
Yea, that's how I interpreted the line.
If that's what he meant, then he wouldn't have said "my hatred of Vasudans." :headz:
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Or maybe he was using figurative language: people think he has a hatred of Vasudans, and he's trying to say that he doesn't. It could be meant either way.
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I think that we'll never be able to really settle on Aken Bosch's hatred of Vasudans. Whether he really hated them or not. Whether they were merely an excuse for the rebellion. Whether or not it was a smokescreen to hide Etak.
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i think he just used the hatred of vasudans to gain an army of zombie followers. Remember, vausdans recovered very quickly after great war. Terrans, not so much. so there would be many hard feelings.
His followers weren't fighting for Bosch or his ideas. they were fighting to satisfy their own hatred.
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There was a silent threat once before, and we all know how well that went.
Crashed and burned. One question though. The Hades really wasn't finished, so why'd they send it out ....?
The Hades wasn't "sent out;" it was parked. Remember, the Jotunheim installation was GTI headquarters, so that's presumably where the Hades was being constructed.
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The Hades wasn't "sent out;" it was parked. Remember, the Jotunheim installation was GTI headquarters, so that's presumably where the Hades was being constructed.
Iirc, the Hades warped in after you started hammering the installation.
i think he just used the hatred of vasudans to gain an army of zombie followers. Remember, vausdans recovered very quickly after great war. Terrans, not so much. so there would be many hard feelings.
His followers weren't fighting for Bosch or his ideas. they were fighting to satisfy their own hatred.
They believed that he hated Vasudans, so probably they figured if he was in command the old war would start again; and they'd be allowed to kill Vasudans legally.
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Eh, people, watch the monologues:
Bosch says something like "I'm not doing this because of my hatred for Vasudans, but because of my love for humanity".
As someone early in the thread said, he hates Vasudans. He tells us so, straight from the horses mouth. There's no ambiguity about it.
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Ok, based on the accepted evidence, this looks like the true side of things:
Bosch hates the Vasudans, for reasons still a bit disputable. However, Bosch did not start his rebellion because of his hatred of Vasudans but for his love for Humanity, therefore made an alliance with the Shivans for reasons still unknown. Bosch created his rebellion by telling others that by joining him then they would be able to blow off the steam of their hatred for Vasudans, thus creating the NTF. Bosch motives all along were therefore not intended for severing the alliance with the Vasudans but simply to have his own personal army which he would then use to make a powerful alliance with the Shivans (Which explains why they killed the crew of the Iceni when they boarded it.).
Lets not get off topic. We still need to find out why he made an alliance with the Shivans and for what purpose.
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I like how what I said is getting completely ignored, and people are saying "there is no ambiguity"...
Wait, no I don't. :warp:
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If he loves humanity he tried to form an alliance with the Shivans in humanitys best interests. Either to obtain a truce or to hand over the Vasudans in exchange for mankinds exemption. Thats what i would have done :)
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mm. You folks have stirred up something campaign worthy in my head. But I won't do anything about it... just yet. Gotta let it stew for a while, first.
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Eh, people, watch the monologues:
Bosch says something like "I'm not doing this because of my hatred for Vasudans, but because of my love for humanity".
As someone early in the thread said, he hates Vasudans. He tells us so, straight from the horses mouth. There's no ambiguity about it.
It's ambiguous, he could be saying "Not because of my hatred of Vasudans" meaning that he doesn't have hatred for Vasudans. If it wasn't ambiguous people wouldn't be discussing it.
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My personal opinion is that since no one had ever been able to communicate with the shivans prior to ETAK he wanted to know what the reasons behind the shivan invasions were.
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He may have found something in the Ancient Sites about the motives of the Shivans or something.
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quite likely - he seems to gain a lot from the ancients
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It's ambiguous, he could be saying "Not because of my hatred of Vasudans" meaning that he doesn't have hatred for Vasudans. If it wasn't ambiguous people wouldn't be discussing it.
"My Hatred for Vasudans" - What is ambigous about that?
My - Possessive
Hatred - Verb, to Hate
Vasudans - Object of Hatred
ie "I have hatred for Vasudans"I like how what I said is getting completely ignored, and people are saying "there is no ambiguity"...
Wait, no I don't. :warp:
I'm not ignoring it, it's just wrong is all. So why would I mention it?
Bosch admits he hates Vasudans, and he admits he loves Humanity. If he meant it in the way you believe, he would've said:
"I'm not doing this out of hatred for Vasudans, but out of love for Humanity"
After all, if he gives a **** about Vasudans, Why doesn't he intend to bring them into the Alliance as well? It's fairly clear that he's setting up a Human-Shivan Alliance. Not a Human-Vasudan-Shivan alliance. Vasudans aren't in on the deal because he doesn't give a damn about them.
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All that line says is that the NTF wasn't started out of hatred against Vasudans, but for the love of humanity.
Its a figurative way of speaking. It doesn't really say if Bosch hated Vasudans...
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Bosch's intentions are made very clear through his monologues and through Petrarch's later command briefings.
One thing bothers me though- couldn't Bosch just been a good little admiral and, with his followers, simply get everything he wanted SILENTLY and PEACEFULLY ?
GTVA "buried" the GTI's research, they certainly wouldn't let Bosch do anything silently and peacefully.
Bosch needed a "smokescreen," IE the NTF's campaign of genocide, to give him access to Deneb and elsewhere for purposes of archeology. Apparently, his "plundering of [Ancient relics]" gave him the location of one of the Ancient's Knossos portals, and the Trinity defected from behind enemy lines and activated the portal on Bosch's command.
With his smokescreen disippating in the face of the Collosus and with the ETAK project operational, the NTF became unneccessary. Bosch ordered a Hail Mary to the Knossos, and used his NTF-sheep as flak shields to protect the Iceni and the ETAK project.
The real question is what happens next.
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By SILENTLY I meant that without the GTVA knowing. :)
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The GTVA would notice massive asteroid/planetary digsites and the misappropriating of Navy resources...just like with the GTI.
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Unless Bosch's "people" in the GTVA would have been the official forces in those systems, and just kept everything under control. But I guess it was more simple and effective by using the NTF. . .
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After all, if he gives a **** about Vasudans, Why doesn't he intend to bring them into the Alliance as well? It's fairly clear that he's setting up a Human-Shivan Alliance. Not a Human-Vasudan-Shivan alliance. Vasudans aren't in on the deal because he doesn't give a damn about them.
Really?
I have initiated the first phase of a new alliance with the destroyers, an alliance upon which the fate of humanity depends.
I alone realized our species had no future with the Vasudans. If we are to survive, our destiny must lie elsewhere.
Sounds pretty clear why he wanted to break the alliance to me and it certainly doesn't sound like he did it cause he hates the Vasudans.