Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: peerLAN on June 20, 2008, 03:25:23 am
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Freespace is missing an essential thing. Freedom! You have jumpnodes and jumpgates already and a sort of systems map. How about being able to travel freely from one system to another using jumpnodes/jumpgates just like in Freelancer or X3 games? Think how much it could add to the game and future mods. What do you think ? I think it’s will take Freespace into the XXI century.
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It would be much easier to do a handstand while taking a dump, and more pleasant.
FS2 is designed for fighter combat arcade simulation from the get-go. Free roaming games are a lot different - mostly as far as AI is considered, the whole code would need an aggressive re-write. So in a real sense, making it really work would be a lot easier by just porting FS2 ships to a free roaming game engine other than FS2_Open.
However, as far as hacks go...
Technically, it could be possible to make a campaign that is scripted to create a simple mission file (or use a lot of variables on the mission/campaign files so the re-play value would increase) based on which jump node the player is close to while jumping, or based on co-ordinate inputs or planet name on in-system jumps... then connect the joined missions with red-alert SEXP and you should get a passable illusion of freedom, for what it's worth since the AI will be the same as it is now, and the randomization of the missions would be veery limited. But it could work as far as the systems and static ships go. Getting things to actually do something in the missions would be a... challenge. So... a grand scnic tour of GTVA space might be possible, but that alone would take heaps of work to get to work correctly, and getting action into the mix... it makes me shudder to think of all the involved work for such small advantages, and makes me still say you'd be better off finding a moddable free-roaming simulation engine and porting FS2 ships into it as a total conversion.
IPAndrews has/had a project that tried to make a dynamic campaign for The Babylon Project, but the last I heard of it, it was in indefinite hiatus pending at least the final TBP release. I have no idea what it's state is now.
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Yah. For those who want to travel around 'n stuff, there are games such as Freelancer and X3 that you already mentioned. But the traveling isn't "the thing" in FreeSpace.
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It can be done without too much difficulty. You set up NAV points, and when the player reaches them and presses a certain key config, the mission shows a cinematic of the player ship flying away at high speed. It fades out, and when it fades back in, you see the cinematic of the player ship slowing down as it reaches it's destination. During that fade-out/fade-in time, you use Events/SEXPS to change skybox or backgrounds. That's for in-system travel. If you want to travel to planets, you can use the red-alert mission deal.
EDIT: I had the same idea of asking you people about traveling in and between system in FS via using events. But someone beat me to it :p
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Well...
If you want trading AI. Although even then you could probably work something out with scripting and a data file to hold information about ships that would give a series of orders to ships and so on, and just use the basic Freespace AI for in-mission stuff.
And missions could be done by manually loading them and, again, using a data file for player data. I don't know if scripting has that capability right this very instant, but Freespace itself does have those loading functions segregated pretty well. It's just a bit of thinking outside of the box.
What it needs is someone who's passionate and willing to see it through. I see a lot of people saying how cool stuff would be, but few people producing. It's not dissimilar to the real world - most of the famous people I've heard of have, more or less, gotten famous based on their own merits and skills, even if those skills did largely consist of knowing how to get other people to do the work for them to achieve their goals. They haven't gotten famous by coming up with an idea, mentioning it once or twice, and then giving up once they were told it wouldn't work. In fact some notable triumphs have been in spite of people telling other people it won't work.
I think to make this idea of yours work, you need something more than just a gimmick of Freelancer in Freespace. You have to do something with the format that hasn't been done before, that this engine is good at doing, that you can't do in other engines, and has some real meaning to the player.
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Goob's done it, or something like it; look for his Freespacelancer demo mission.
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Can someone link it here ?
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http://staff.hard-light.net/goober5000/downloads/freespacelancer.zip
This is just a proof-of-concept, mind you. There's no combat and hardly any actual story.
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Goob I really liked the count von count... Reminds me of my ringtone and picture ID a friend set up for me once :p
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Freespace is missing an essential thing. Freedom! You have jumpnodes and jumpgates already and a sort of systems map. How about being able to travel freely from one system to another using jumpnodes/jumpgates just like in Freelancer or X3 games? Think how much it could add to the game and future mods. What do you think ? I think it’s will take Freespace into the XXI century.
Play Tachyon for that.
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Freespace is missing an essential thing. Freedom! You have jumpnodes and jumpgates already and a sort of systems map. How about being able to travel freely from one system to another using jumpnodes/jumpgates just like in Freelancer or X3 games? Think how much it could add to the game and future mods. What do you think ? I think it’s will take Freespace into the XXI century.
Play Tachyon for that.
I haven't played Tachyon... do you mean this http://fringespace.org/ ?
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You mean like some sort of overworld map like in the Final fantasy series I-IX + Kingdom hearts I-II? or like the areas connect in Final fantasy X-XII
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Tachyon was what the opening poster described... but think more along the lines
of BtRL flight mechanics with less intelligent AI.
The main campaign had you as a pilot for hire/merc that was framed, and then exiled
to the fringes of colonized space. Once there you had to rebuild a new life while everyone thinks
your a murderer of a certain station... and eventually make a choice to go one of two paths
either with a mega-corp or the colonists opposing them. You could free-roam, using gates and so forth
if you accepted a mission and then just didn't go to the final destination. We also had free roam in the
multiplayer missions which had several gate connected areas (largest was 12 sectors I believe).
FringeSpace is the effort of some of the original modders of Tachyon to port the feel and universe to the
FS2 engine. Tach is beyond saving unless you have 3 dozen coders breaking the program down and rebuilding
massive amounts of it. Plus it's not open source... amid other reasons.
Right now we are working on getting multiplayer functional, after that we may look into doing a single player
campaign depending on who is still around and what energy is left. We do have a SP plot... but SP is just a whole 'nother
monster to deal with after the fact.
None the less this topic has given me a little more insight and hope for what we may be able to do in the future.
..and peerLAN, if you wish to play Tachyon you will need a copy of it off the net (it's now downloadable) or a retail CD - and
the DC's 36R quick updater and my Tachyon Service Bay fix kit, both of which are available on FringeSpace in the downloads
section.
GameTap also hosts Tachyon, but I cannot vouch for their multiplayer being functional as NovaLogic moved the servers and broke
the game. My Service Bay was made to restore multiplayer games in retail-type on-your-PC copies of Tach.
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What I want is the ability to choose and pick which missions you go on, like MW4: Mercs. IIRC Mercenaries on GW had a way, but they died.
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Oh you mean like in colony wars Red sun? you can choose which missions you do, but some HAVE to be played
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Didn't we discuss that RedSun sucked, terran :lol: ?
Seriously, selecting missions can work. I've some plans in that direction.
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Dude, JGZinv, you just spoiled the story. could you edit it to remove mention of Neptune and the Bora/Galspan? Others may want the surprise.
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I know that Red Sun Sucked majorly...
The only goold thing about it was that for the most part was that you could select which missions you played - with the e
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There - edited...
The GS/Bora rift is introduced in the very first news reel in the game, no point in editing it.
Of course this assumes there's people interested in playing... -_-
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I didn't read this thread, mind you, but I will pitch in this tidbit.
I think it will be much, much easier to simply mod Freelancer. I would like it more myself, to see freespace from an entirely different perspective. Actually, I think it would turn out really, really great if a freespace mod ended up in Freelancer.
sorry if it's been mentioned before.
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There - edited...
The GS/Bora rift is introduced in the very first news reel in the game, no point in editing it.
Of course this assumes there's people interested in playing... -_-
SPOILER WARNING regarding Tachyon!!! Highlight below.
I always wish you had the option to switch sides in the middle. The first time I played, I went Bora. The second time, I went GalSpan, but felt so bad in my decision I wanted to switch. They should have had a mission when Bora where GalSpan hires you to sabotage Bora from the inside and another where you find out that GalSpan was responsible for Neptune and you defect from GalSpan to Bora.
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You can...sorta i think...Select the "No Traitor" option in Mission specs editor then script in iff changes in the Events editor...I think this will work...so keeping this in mind, it may be possible to create branching campaigns where the missions depend on your side
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Funny thing is, I was dreaming about a videogame (Freespace and other games) where *anything* you do, short of dying, allows you to advance to the next mission.
For example, in FS1, if you fail to stop the Lucifer in the Delta Serpentis-->Sol Jumpnode, you have to help Earth in its defense against the Lucifer. Even if it is futile. If you dont die but Earth is destroyed, the campaign doesnt end. You need to stop the Lucifer from going back to the future GTVA space and stop it there. Etc.
But that technology is some 100 years away.
****.
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You can...sorta i think...Select the "No Traitor" option in Mission specs editor
Use the allow-treason SEXP instead. It has the exact same effect but unlike No Traitor it doesn't have to be on the length of the entire mission.
You'll need a 3.6.10 era build of course.
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Funny thing is, I was dreaming about a videogame (Freespace and other games) where *anything* you do, short of dying, allows you to advance to the next mission.
The problem with this is no one wants to make a 40 mission campaign thats 4 missions long.
Fighting for one side or the other in some sort of rebellion or faction centered storyline, however, would only require slight modifications to the original mission. Friendlies and enemies switch IFFs, designate a new player ship, and voila!
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And more messaging.
And better ship orders.
And deleting the old messages.
and more.
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It'd be a noteworthy project for someone to create an environment - say, a looping campaign with two missions - that dynamically autogenerated all that stuff and added a plot as well, using AI.
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This is all possible. BHX proves that (And that was made before I fixed the argument SEXPs which would make it even easier).
The reason no one has done it is cause
1) It's very complicated to FRED
2) The FREDders who are capable of doing it are all busy with something else.
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FreeSpaceLancer FTW!!!
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The reason no one has done it is cause
1) It's very complicated to FRED
2) The FREDders who are capable of doing it are all busy with something else.
3) There's no point in doing it because it isn't compatible with the way FreeSpace campaigns are set.
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Heh... Doesn't mean some non-freespace mod couldn't use it. ;7
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I'd like to see the results...
Well, for now the basic idea is to use the limbo code and something that continuously changes backgrounds. I think we need scripting, even for the second option. :)
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The reason no one has done it is cause
1) It's very complicated to FRED
2) The FREDders who are capable of doing it are all busy with something else.
3) There's no point in doing it because it isn't compatible with the way FreeSpace campaigns are set.
You what? :confused:
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Well, I meant that the player isn't supposed to make that kind of movements in FS missions. They'd be pretty much like Starlancer style cinematics...they wouldn't fit well.
EDIT: For example it wouldn't fit in an early TV/GW environment, in which spacecraft didn't have the subspace drives needed to use nodes.
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Sorry but that's utter nonsense. There is absolutely no reason you couldn't do a massively branched campaign in FS2. There's no reason something like BHX couldn't have been made for FS2 instead of TBP.
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Massively branched? Yes, they would work...like an eventual Colony Wars campaign for FS2... :nod:
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FREELANCER *cough*