Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Black Wolf on June 28, 2008, 11:27:28 am

Title: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Black Wolf on June 28, 2008, 11:27:28 am: Cargo containers. Spinning. No orders, no nothing. I place them in FRED, I play the mission, they spin on their axis. Every different container class, several different missions. It's driving me insane.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 28, 2008, 11:46:46 am: Is there something colliding with them?
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Black Wolf on June 28, 2008, 11:50:24 am: Nope. There're seven cargo containers, just sitting in space, nothing else anywhere near them. Spinning.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: CP5670 on June 28, 2008, 12:04:40 pm: Do they spin slowly and steadily? If so, I've noticed this in certain situations too. I have no idea what exactly causes it, but it's not very common.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: terran_emperor on June 28, 2008, 12:22:48 pm: could be some screwy file with rotation set in POFs of the cargo containers. Dont knowif this can be caused in FRED by clicking some option though
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on June 28, 2008, 01:19:31 pm: Target them and see how much hull they have left. They spin when they are dying don't they? If you ever assigned them special hits the variables may have gotten screwed up resulting in 0 hull at start. Had that happen a few dozen times now but not with cargo containers so I'm guessing.

Also isn't there some new Newtonian flag? Are you using it?
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 28, 2008, 02:05:19 pm: In some mods (TVWP), weapons fire will spin them.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Droid803 on June 28, 2008, 02:11:57 pm: TAC 1's need to be fixed.
They shouldn't spin madly while exploding.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Snail on June 28, 2008, 04:53:19 pm: Mobius said that this was caused by creating a normal ship and then making it a cargo container, but I take it you haven't done so.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Black Wolf on June 28, 2008, 09:32:14 pm: I'm not shooting at them, and they are at 100% health.

CP: They do spin slowly and steadily.

Quote from: Snail on June 28, 2008, 04:53:19 pm
Mobius said that this was caused by creating a normal ship and then making it a cargo container, but I take it you haven't done so.

No, but they were originally a different type of cargo container. I changed them before I'd played the mission for the first time. Lemme see...

Wahoo! OK, so now we know. Spinning cargo is caused by changing the class of any ship (including other cargo containers) to a cargo container. cheers everyone, especially Mobius/Snail.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Droid803 on June 28, 2008, 09:43:29 pm: Now that is a funny glitch.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: terran_emperor on June 28, 2008, 11:59:07 pm: Someone should make an AMV of this glitch with the Original and best version of "You spin me round" by Dead or Alive
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: MT on June 29, 2008, 12:53:42 am: Quote from: terran_emperor on June 28, 2008, 11:59:07 pm
Someone should make an AMV of this glitch with the Original and best version of "You spin me round" by Dead or Alive

Another game, but also spinning to the tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpNCqBoGFPk
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 29, 2008, 01:26:43 am: Quote from: terran_emperor on June 28, 2008, 11:59:07 pm
Someone should make an AMV of this glitch with the Original and best version of "You spin me round" by Dead or Alive

That would be pretty funny. I can just see a Deimos and a bunch of cargo containers spinning round and round and round...
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on June 29, 2008, 01:59:24 am: What build are you using? Because I just played with the most recent SVN checkout and everything is spinning -- far too much. By comparison of builds, it seems to be something that was only added in the last week.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Snail on June 29, 2008, 03:17:50 am: I had the same error quite a long time ago, though.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Black Wolf on June 29, 2008, 06:11:11 am: Quote from: Goober5000 on June 29, 2008, 01:59:24 am
What build are you using? Because I just played with the most recent SVN checkout and everything is spinning -- far too much. By comparison of builds, it seems to be something that was only added in the last week.

I just cleansed my install and redownloaded with Turey's installer, so whatever that's using at the moment - I'd assume the last official 3.6.9 release?
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: WMCoolmon on June 29, 2008, 06:34:56 am: On a somewhat related note...

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,54876.0.html
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: terran_emperor on June 29, 2008, 07:37:10 am: Quote from: WMCoolmon on June 29, 2008, 01:26:43 am
Quote from: terran_emperor on June 28, 2008, 11:59:07 pm
Someone should make an AMV of this glitch with the Original and best version of "You spin me round" by Dead or Alive

That would be pretty funny. I can just see a Deimos and a bunch of cargo containers spinning round and round and round...

I might FRED this with the appropriate music track and edited POFs as a Joke Mission
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 29, 2008, 08:22:37 am: Quote from: MT on June 29, 2008, 12:53:42 am
Another game, but also spinning to the tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpNCqBoGFPk
:lol:

The pikeman headbutted the swordsman instead of using his pike. XD
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on June 30, 2008, 12:57:14 am: When I played the TVWP demo I had the same issue . . . . but when they had some joke about the cargo container's arrangement I thought it was intentional rather than a bug.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 30, 2008, 08:20:09 am: Um. How would the game know to reply to what was happening intelligently?
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 30, 2008, 09:14:42 am: I mean he means that he thought that they scripted the cargo containers to spin.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: colecampbell666 on June 30, 2008, 09:35:13 am: :wtf: They don't spin for me.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: NGTM-1R on June 30, 2008, 09:36:01 am: I saw that too and thought that was what was being talked about.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: terran_emperor on June 30, 2008, 11:43:50 am: Seriously i think a video of the Colossus spinning to "You spin right round" would be hilarious
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Stormkeeper on June 30, 2008, 11:52:33 am: Quote from: terran_emperor on June 30, 2008, 11:43:50 am
Seriously i think a video of the Colossus spinning to "You spin right round" would be hilarious
Woe to any fighter that strays too close.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: ssmit132 on July 03, 2008, 04:16:15 am: I once got the Colossus X-2 in JAD2 spinning around after it got destroyed by the Sathanas juggernauts, with a SSL of larger mass. It went around a couple of times, taking the Home One with it. And when it stopped spinning (when it split in half) the Home One went off on a tangent and got toasted by a BFRed.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Stormkeeper on July 03, 2008, 10:51:09 am: *thinks*
Colossuss smashes Fenris aside when spinning, Fenris smashes into an Aeolus, both crash into a Hecate, which smashes into a Deimos which smashes into a ...
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on July 03, 2008, 08:10:07 pm: Black Wolf, would you mind putting this in Mantis?
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: terran_emperor on July 03, 2008, 08:17:52 pm: Im now tempted to do a version of that mission to leekspin - my plead INSANITY
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Droid803 on July 03, 2008, 08:19:43 pm: Quote from: terran_emperor on July 03, 2008, 08:17:52 pm
Im now tempted to do a version of that mission to leekspin - my plead INSANITY
Convert the music so that it plays in-mission too :D

Cargo Art XD
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Black Wolf on July 04, 2008, 04:30:19 am: Quote from: Goober5000 on July 03, 2008, 08:10:07 pm
Black Wolf, would you mind putting this in Mantis?

I did try, but Mantis refuses to send me a confirmation email to sign up, and I've long since forgotten my old login/password (none of the usual username/password combinations worked :()
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Kszyhu on August 01, 2008, 04:45:34 pm: I always thought that cargo spinning was a feature added by SCP team...
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 02, 2008, 01:43:01 am: NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO

:necro:

Don't post in an thread more than fifteen days old, unless if you really have something constructive to add.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Jeff Vader on August 02, 2008, 04:09:53 am: I would have said 30. And about constructive comments, I wouldn't call his comment spam in any case. So... well, those of you who have the pow4h on this board, do what you want.

Speaking of which, if I were to make a mission with a spinning Colossus, I'd use Kylie's Spinning Around as the background music.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on August 02, 2008, 04:31:44 am: Quote from: Lobo on August 02, 2008, 04:09:53 am
I would have said 30. And about constructive comments, I wouldn't call his comment spam in any case. So... well, those of you who have the pow4h on this board, do what you want.

Speaking of which, if I were to make a mission with a spinning Colossus, I'd use Kylie's Spinning Around as the background music.

How do you make the Colossus spin anyway? Put four waypoints in a circle 1m away from each other? :drevil:
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on August 19, 2008, 08:09:03 pm: :bump:

I've added a fix for one aspect of this bug, at least. Chief1983 has put out a build here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55879.0.html). Everybody please test it out and see if the bug is completely fixed.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 08, 2008, 05:23:35 pm: Man, everybody complains when something is broken but as soon as it's fixed no one cares to let you know. :) At least I'm assuming it's fixed by the silence. If no one else has seen this in the last couple of months, we should probably close 1722 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=1722).
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 08, 2008, 05:49:04 pm: Yeah, I really don't appreciate being taken for granted. That's what caused Taylor to leave the SCP, and threads like these make me tempted to do the same. :doubt:

Maybe I should institute a policy of banning everyone who reports a bug but never follows up on it.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Mongoose on October 08, 2008, 07:03:01 pm: If I understand this correctly, this bug occurred when a cargo container (or any other ship) was placed in FRED and then switched to another type of cargo container, right? I just attempted this using the latest nightly build, and I didn't get any spinning at all, so it seems to have been banished.

(It really does suck that people complain about bugs to you guys and then never follow up when you ask for more feedback. If I ever do that myself, please do feel free to do something extremely condescending towards me. :p)
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on October 09, 2008, 12:11:42 am: It's not really fair in this case - BW has had to drop out of contact for long periods because of his job. He works as a geologist at a mine in the Aussie outback, and when he does come back, it's usually only for a few days which are always quite busy already. I know he'd test this if he could. ;)
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Goober5000 on October 09, 2008, 08:16:12 am: Meh. Well, tell him to check this out next time he stops by. :)
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 09, 2008, 08:57:51 am: Could be the MOI of the pof file being out of whack?
I found trying to just manually create an MOI for POF's, that previously didn't have them and was brought to my attention by the debug v10, made the asteroids go radically nuts in missions.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 09, 2008, 09:30:01 am: I was just making a joke, although I thought there was more than just BW who had been able to reproduce this bug. If it's only him then I suppose we'd technically have to wait, but if anyone else can reproduce with an old build and then verify it's no longer an issue with a new one that would work too. Say, Kara's standalone fixes or some such from mid summer and the latest nightly.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Agent_Koopa on October 09, 2008, 11:36:25 pm: Quote from: Vasudan Admiral on October 09, 2008, 12:11:42 am
It's not really fair in this case - BW has had to drop out of contact for long periods because of his job. He works as a geologist at a mine in the Aussie outback, and when he does come back, it's usually only for a few days which are always quite busy already. I know he'd test this if he could. ;)

What, really? That's awesome! I don't know why, I expect everyone on the Internet to work in some sort of IT-related profession.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 10, 2008, 02:19:34 am: Well, you got me, I'm a web programmer.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 10, 2008, 05:56:24 am: <--- CADD Manager... ASPNET Developer... Web Programmer.... IT.... :eek2:
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Stormkeeper on October 10, 2008, 06:03:42 am: I shuffle papers for the business office of a hospital.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Wobble73 on October 10, 2008, 06:31:41 am: Quote from: Stormkeeper on October 10, 2008, 06:03:42 am
I shuffle papers for the business office of a hospital.

I shuffle papers for an Adoption Team!
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on October 10, 2008, 09:36:27 am: Blast, I'm late.

:necro:
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 10, 2008, 10:28:24 am: Quote from: Androgeos Exeunt on October 10, 2008, 09:36:27 am
Blast, I'm late.

:necro:

Go pound sand. It was relevant and it was only a couple months :)
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Mongoose on October 10, 2008, 11:04:48 am: Not to nudge this thing gently back on-topic, but I tried triggering the bug with the old standalone fixes build and didn't get anything to happen. Guess you'll need a better test subject. :p
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: CP5670 on October 10, 2008, 01:38:19 pm: I tried out that Chief build quickly. The problem as I understand it is still there, at least in the one specific situation where I know it occurs (the TC 03 crate in mission 14c of PI). I have never seen it anywhere besides that though.

I always thought it looked strange, but that was in some ways a good thing in that particular mission, so I never paid much attention to it.

Quote
Maybe I should institute a policy of banning everyone who reports a bug but never follows up on it.

Then nobody will ever report anything. :p
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 10, 2008, 03:05:37 pm: Is that using an older model of a container with bad MOI data? Also, could you try a more recent nightly build just to make sure.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: CP5670 on October 10, 2008, 03:26:52 pm: Maybe. What is considered bad MOI data though? I noticed the debug build complaining about some other models with zero MOI, but that was intentional and is needed for some things to work properly.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 10, 2008, 07:00:20 pm: I was under the impression that things will _not_ work properly with null MOI. I thought that all MediaVP models, etc had their MOIs corrected now to some sane values.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on October 10, 2008, 07:42:54 pm: As I understand it, MOI is a 'tensor' (a 9 element array) that contains the information about a rigid bodies resistance to rotation forces about any axis. Just like the inertia of mass resists a force in this: (ie, bigger mass means the same force will produce less acceleration)

ΣF = m*a

the distribution of mass around the centre of gravity (I) resists moments in this equivillant equation:

ΣM = I*α

where α is radial acceleration and ΣM is the sum of the moments about the centre of gravity.

If you have a null MOI tensor then you'll have no radial acceleration for the object and it will just slide when hit with off centre kinetic weapon shots.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on October 10, 2008, 08:02:52 pm: Interesting. Still, bad MOI could still possibly be the cause, even if null isn't. Either way, it's a shame if this is still a bug, but we need to know for sure that it's a code or a model issue.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: CP5670 on October 10, 2008, 10:04:20 pm: Quote
If you have a null MOI tensor then you'll have no radial acceleration for the object and it will just slide when hit with off centre kinetic weapon shots.

Yes, and this is exactly what you want in some situations. There were a few places where I solved some very annoying and elusive mission bugs by creating a copy of the ship type and its model with zero MOI.

In any case, I looked at that mission again and that particular cargo container just uses the original Volition TTC model, which has a normal MOI. It does have a special explosion assigned to it, but I don't think that should affect anything.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 11, 2008, 10:59:50 am: Solving MOI for a particular model is not an easy thing in the least.
PCS2 doesn't seem to handle it very well.
Is there a tried and true guide to calculating it with a step by step tutorial around?
Would likely be a seriously good thing to put up on the Wiki.
Something other than the greek math symbols using an example.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on October 11, 2008, 11:09:59 am: The tried and true method for solving MOI consists of one of two methods:

1) Open another [v] model of similar size and shape and copy the tensor MOI data over to the new one

2) Open in PCS2, click calculate MOI. ;)

PCS2 won't give you a perfect result, but then you don't need a perfect result for this, since it's a game and not a physics simulation. Both techniques work just fine. ;)
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: CP5670 on October 11, 2008, 11:37:09 am: In theory, it's not that hard to compute. You take a regularly spaced grid of points inside the model (I think most 3D modeling programs would let you do this), and the MOI just consists of various sums involving their coordinates. One problem though is that I have no idea what units FS2 uses for it. They are not the standard ingame units.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on October 11, 2008, 11:59:22 am: Calculating a MOI isn't so hard (just tedious and completely unnessecary), but getting these calculations to replicate the sorts of values the FS fleets use is another matter. It's what gave Bobboau so much trouble when developing the PCS2 MOI calculator. He could never get results that matched the [v] MOIs for the same model.

As is it's 'close enough' for everything I've seen and tested. :)
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: KewlToyZ on October 11, 2008, 12:58:02 pm: The reason I ran into trouble were the asteroids.
The calculator kept giving me values of 0's or more likely values so extremely beyond the carried floating point values they ended up 0's.
An asteroid is small compared to a planet of course but planets are not used in the FS engine they just remain images beyond reach of course.
But they are larger than most cap ships it presents a problem.
Thanks for the info. :D
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on November 18, 2008, 09:50:40 am: So basically, we have one report from CP that this still seems to be happening. Has anyone else seen this?
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Mongoose on November 18, 2008, 12:16:38 pm: I can confirm seeing it in the one PI mission that CP mentioned on a semi-recent nightly build. As far as I can remember, I wasn't able to trigger it on my own in FRED.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: ssmit132 on November 19, 2008, 05:27:34 am: I got it with PI and the recommended build that came with it. Although it doesn't really concern me, and I don't want to download another build to fix it anyway. I only use that build for PI, anyway. So it's probably no real help to you, unfortunately.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: phreak on November 19, 2008, 10:12:16 am: I think the affected missions need to be reopened and saved in a new fred build to fix this.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: chief1983 on November 19, 2008, 11:09:21 am: Yeah it seems like this PI mission is the only thing still affected by it.
Title: Re: STOP SPINNING!!!
Post by: Akalabeth Angel on November 19, 2008, 01:37:55 pm: I had cargo containers spinning in one of the TVWP missions.

Spoiler:
The one where you defend some cargo and when your wingmen die the wing leader goes off somewhere to mope

If I remember I'll check it out sometime to see if it still does it.