Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: FreeSpaceFreak on July 10, 2008, 12:04:14 am
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Personally, I take the second option. But I'd like to know your opinions.
P.S. Has there been a poll like this already?
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I take the second one too.
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Second one. There already are such things called wormholes, that are similar to subspace. Who knows- this might be an indication that subspace exists.
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No, at least not in the the form presented in Freespace.
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I think nay.
Wormholes are only deemed plausible by Einsteins model of gravity it doesn't mean they exist.
The String Theory speaks of additional dimensions but those above the 4 that we can sense allow travel through time and not space.
I think our chances for space voyage would be using conventional drives or quantum teleportation(both are handwaves but more plausible then anything in Freespace)
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Unproveable either way.
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Who knows?
with current technology it's unprovable
maybe it's kicking around at the center of black holes - after all within those the laws of physics deteriorate so why not?
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Our current knowledge about space is as much as a blind person can see. Who's to say that there are no Shivans and Vasudans right now? Or subspace? Or whatever else you might think of that is in FS.
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ShadowGorrath speaks the truth. We humans are so proud of how much we know... but the more we learn the more it is shown how much we do not understand.
I'm willing to believe that alternate dimensions, subspace, wormholes, or ET life exist... but I'm not going to believe either way until we have something better than mere theory to base it on.
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It could, but it doesn't mean it does.
There's no way to find out either way...not as of this second, at least.
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I say freespace is too good to be wrong! :P
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If subspace exists, i'd be thinking the way subspace is described in stargate and star trek. Subspace travel in fs is nothing but wormholes.
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It's not impossible. And given the possibilities of everthing else in Freespace, that means it's very promising. :p
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Subspace? Hell, there are weirder things. Like a little theroy I thought up (which is also used in my book-in-progress, tentatively titled Storm Burner) I called 'Warp space'. By moving into another dimension, one can circumnavigate the (in)famous Heisenberg Uncertainty Principal and move from place to place instantly (In my book, however, ships travel at the speed of plot).
Besides, :v: might get a little attention from this. Maybe we could learn a little something, before things go wrong and we end up as :headz:
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I hope you're not trying to promote your theory past the rank of 'sheer technobabble', since the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is not exactly your biggest obstacle when it comes to FTL travel.
In other words: lolwut.
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I certainly hope something like it exists, because I'm damn sure we're not going to get anywhere worthwhile in space contending with relativistic effects. :p
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It's either there's subspace, or we have sleeper ships that take thousands of years to get to planets which have fossil fuels, only to get hijacked by facehuggers.
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It's either there's subspace, or we have sleeper ships that take thousands of years to get to planets which have fossil fuels, only to get hijacked by facehuggers.
And then we get hunted for sport.
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Does subspace exist?
That information is classified Phi Omega and is on a need to know basis pilot! :P
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Does subspace exist?
That information is classified Phi Omega and is on a need to know basis pilot! :P
Omega is the highest classification level. :p
Only selected VIPs like me get that information. Any distribution of the following information is punishable by sending to the first line of the attack force meant to take down a Sathanas. Have a nice day.
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Does subspace exist?
That information is classified Phi Omega and is on a need to know basis pilot! :P
Omega is the highest classification level. :p
Only selected VIPs like me get that information. Any distribution of the following information is punishable by sending to the first line of the attack force meant to take down a Sathanas. Have a nice day.
You forgot. The punishment is to be the first in line of the FRONTAL assault. And right in front too. Leading the charge.
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Does subspace exist?
That information is classified Phi Omega and is on a need to know basis pilot! :P
Omega is the highest classification level. :p
Only selected VIPs like me get that information. Any distribution of the following information is punishable by sending to the first line of the attack force meant to take down a Sathanas. Have a nice day.
You forgot. The punishment is to be the first in line of the FRONTAL assault. And right in front too. Leading the charge.
In a Fenris. Otherwise it's not that bad.
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Does subspace exist?
That information is classified Phi Omega and is on a need to know basis pilot! :P
Omega is the highest classification level. :p
Only selected VIPs like me get that information. Any distribution of the following information is punishable by sending to the first line of the attack force meant to take down a Sathanas. Have a nice day.
You forgot. The punishment is to be the first in line of the FRONTAL assault. And right in front too. Leading the charge.
In a Fenris. Otherwise it's not that bad.
An FS1-era Fenris. With no beams. Only lasers. ML-16s at that.
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Alternatively you can be hired to transport the meson bomb.
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Alternatively you can be hired to transport the meson bomb.
Or be sealed inside one.
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Alternatively you can be hired to transport the meson bomb.
Or be sealed inside one.
That'd be fun!
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Alternatively you can be hired to transport the meson bomb.
Or be sealed inside one.
That'd be fun!
I think Nuke does that regularly ;)
I say the second and i also quote Britiah writer D. Adams "if ever anyone discovers what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly vanish and be replaced by something even more inexplicable... ...this has already happened"
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of course it does. nodes are the link between two systems, all systems have a star, stars have craploads of gravity, therefore subspace is nothing more than a super-parallel universe that is a concentrated version of the one it resides next to, or should i say... resides IN.
subspace's extreme energy output makes en-shields all but untouchable but leaves them active non-the-less. however because it IS concentrated space all objects move much faster than the speed of light, while still "obeying" Einstein's Theory of Relativity, making life supportable without oxygen, or whatever gas is required for that organism but the subject will still feel as if he IS breathing
moreover the star inside of fusion based fighters and all of the above create a small gravity force and this IS NOT turned into energy so if it is ruptured the explosion is 5fold (depending on the amount of gravitational strength) this however proves undoubtedly dangerous as the gravity inside of gravity will start to cancel each other out.
but hope its not lost. when the corridor collapses EVERYTHING inside of subspace will be squeezed out at high velocity.
if at the center... well you will simply be stuck in subspace until you warp out but those chances are slim to non unless you phucking calculated it
this knowledge is not known by anyone at those "research" facilities cause they got no creative MYND
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A:
:necro:
B:
:welcomeorange:
C:
I can usually kind of understand most technobabble, but what you just said is hard to make sense of.
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If you read the really small red writing on the Subspace thing, it says something about string theory.
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Infamus, nothing you said makes any sense on any level. I am sorry.
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of course it does. nodes are the link between two systems, all systems have a star, stars have craploads of gravity, therefore subspace is nothing more than a super-parallel universe that is a concentrated version of the one it resides next to, or should i say... resides IN.
subspace's extreme energy output makes en-shields all but untouchable but leaves them active non-the-less. however because it IS concentrated space all objects move much faster than the speed of light, while still "obeying" Einstein's Theory of Relativity, making life supportable without oxygen, or whatever gas is required for that organism but the subject will still feel as if he IS breathing
moreover the star inside of fusion based fighters and all of the above create a small gravity force and this IS NOT turned into energy so if it is ruptured the explosion is 5fold (depending on the amount of gravitational strength) this however proves undoubtedly dangerous as the gravity inside of gravity will start to cancel each other out.
but hope its not lost. when the corridor collapses EVERYTHING inside of subspace will be squeezed out at high velocity.
if at the center... well you will simply be stuck in subspace until you warp out but those chances are slim to non unless you phucking calculated it
this knowledge is not known by anyone at those "research" facilities cause they got no creative MYND
Intersystem travel is very different than intrasystem travel. Intrasystem is subspace travel within a system which requires a gravity well provided from something very likely...a star. Intersystem travel is very different in that it is travel between two systems, with the unique aspect of not requiring a gravity well to use.
The fact that there's a node in every gtva system does not imply the deduction that a gravity well is required for a node. It just means that every system the gtva has been to has a node otherwise they wouldn't have been able to get there in the first place. I'm pretty sure there's tons of nodes in empty space. But, those don't matter since no shivan, ancient, terran, or zod ship will ever be in empty space except for one circumstance.
The other thing to notice is that gamma draconis is a system with no stellar bodies whatsoever (as following the in game description). It is actual empty space with two nodes (and also the only time you'll catch any fs ships in empty space).
Who really knows what happens when a node collapses, but what you said could very well happen at all. Not many people around here theorize about what happens inside the node when it collapses.
subspace's extreme energy output makes en-shields all but untouchable but leaves them active non-the-less. however because it IS concentrated space all objects move much faster than the speed of light, while still "obeying" Einstein's Theory of Relativity, making life supportable without oxygen, or whatever gas is required for that organism but the subject will still feel as if he IS breathing
There's no explainable reason why shields aren't usable in subspace. This canon detail about subspace usage created by V sounds nothing more than a quick convenience for trying to come up with some way for the player to be able to destroy the lucifer. My reasoning for why the lucifer shielding wouldn't be active in subspace is because it takes a lot of energy for huge ships to be able to perform and intersystem jump and maintain that jump (pretty much the lucifer goes into sleep mode dedicating a certain allocated amount of energy for intersystem travel while a good deal of everything else doesn't need to be in use unless in unprotected normal space (such as shielding)). But, no V doesn't explain the reason at all.
As far as ships travelling faster than light in fs. They do travel faster than light, but they don't travel faster than light in normal space. They only move faster than light in subspace. Very much like star trek subspace usage. The theory of relativity obviously doesn't apply as much within subspace if it even applies in subspace. Even still, subspace travel in fs is really nothing more than traversing worm holes.
As far as the very random life supportable without oxygen. I don't know where that came from really. All forms of life are going to be different, especially alien life that we've never seen before. Species that don't breathe could very well be in real life somewhere in the galaxy. And species that don't breathe such as the shivans is a certainty in the fs universe. Also how could you feel like your breathing when you can't breathe? Why would feel like your breathing when you can't breathe matter anyway.
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The reason given that shields don't work in subspace is that apparently there isn't enough energy for it.
TerranSci-1: You see from this part of the captured ship breakdown the energy flow is constant.
VasudanSci-1: Yes…but how do you explain what happens during a jump? It doesn’t seem as if the rate is sufficient to support the required level.
TerranSci-1: Very good observation “EEEEE” You live up to your credentials. You see…
[walking to another monitor]
The Terran gets out of his chair and the Vasudan follows him over to the research equipment where the other scientists are tweaking things.[possibly cut this part if we don’t want to show more scientists]
[cut to monitor displaying some sort of graphical test readouts]
TerranSci-1: We’ve been able to get a prototype shield system working under normal conditions. However when we simulate jump phenomena there’s no way to keep the power levels high enough.
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we can not confirm or deny sub space exists because we never experienced what subspace is or seen such a thing.
we are humans and we are very primitive, so we think as such for example that Russian-Georgian incident and now the renegades. killing other humans just for land which is barbaric and primitive. our limited understanding of space, and the probes that went into space, the faked moon landing just to see what Russia would do (no arguments about that point, it will prove another of my points), we are also slow and dim witted to many aspects. so if we have these aspects what chance do we have to finding what subspace is, even if it exists.
those who say no, clearly dont want to know eaither way. thoese who say yes ovbiously need proof to back their statements. and i would bet all the gold bricks in fort knox that no one in our lifetime will discover such a thing or be proved.
so what in the case it's discovered, will any electronics work in subspace? will it give such a mighty boost in electronic system to overload them? will you be able to breathe in subspace without a vacuum suit? and their is only one way to know of such a thing, by going their and proving that point.
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The reason given that shields don't work in subspace is that apparently there isn't enough energy for it.
Ok cool, so that does follow what i was thinking about when the lucifer could be destroyed in subspace.
we can not confirm or deny sub space exists because we never experienced what subspace is or seen such a thing.
we are humans and we are very primitive, so we think as such for example that Russian-Georgian incident and now the renegades. killing other humans just for land which is barbaric and primitive. our limited understanding of space, and the probes that went into space, the faked moon landing just to see what Russia would do (no arguments about that point, it will prove another of my points), we are also slow and dim witted to many aspects. so if we have these aspects what chance do we have to finding what subspace is, even if it exists.
those who say no, clearly dont want to know eaither way. thoese who say yes ovbiously need proof to back their statements. and i would bet all the gold bricks in fort knox that no one in our lifetime will discover such a thing or be proved.
so what in the case it's discovered, will any electronics work in subspace? will it give such a mighty boost in electronic system to overload them? will you be able to breathe in subspace without a vacuum suit? and their is only one way to know of such a thing, by going their and proving that point.
You are very right about those who say no. But, those who say yes have two reasons for saying yes. Scientific fact, or just plain old geek hope that something as awesome as subspace exists.
Either you sound irritated. Possibly because of the georgian border incident? It sounds like your possibly close enough to be affected by it in some way.
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our limited understanding of space, and the probes that went into space, the faked moon landing just to see what Russia would do (no arguments about that point, it will prove another of my points)
Oh! I am relieved. I can safely ignore you now.
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we can not confirm or deny sub space exists because we never experienced what subspace is or seen such a thing.
In the case where there is no evidence for or against, that it doesn't exist wins by default.
our limited understanding of space, and the probes that went into space, the faked moon landing just to see what Russia would do (no arguments about that point, it will prove another of my points)
If you're going to make statements like that, please provide some evidence, or you can continue to act as the primitive you want humanity to be.
will you be able to breathe in subspace without a vacuum suit?
No. Even disregarding the usual issues with vacuums, there's that other fun problem of oxygen.
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The idea of saying the moon landings are fake to incite an argument because he's irritated and desires to flame and troll?
Yes they desire this :yes:
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The reason given that shields don't work in subspace is that apparently there isn't enough energy for it.
Which is funny, because it could mean a lot of things.
These break down into:
The environment in subspace is inimical to shields. (It's wearing them down too fast.)
The environment in subspace is not conducive to shields in the first place. (Whatever produces the shielding effect is more difficult to replicate in subspace.)
The environment in subspace is not conducive to shield generator functioning. (Something about subspace does not like the equipment, or what it must do, to generate the shielding effect...yes, this is actually a different matter from the above, from a physics standpoint.)
And last and least likely, something about subspaces sucks power straight out of your ship. (And other ship systems can be protected against this but not shield generators for some ignorant reason.)
Number 1 can probably be safely eliminated because anything that hurts shields directly like that is probably inimical to ship hulls and human bodies too, and considering all you've got between you and subspace is a fighter's canopy, and whatever it is is probably some kind of radiation, the fact pilots don't need to wear rad-counter badges and Alpha 1's hair hasn't fallen out yet suggests this is a no.
Number 4 can also probably be eliminated, because fat chance you'd be able to protect active or passive sensors but not shields.
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I think nay.
Wormholes are only deemed plausible by Einsteins model of gravity it doesn't mean they exist.
The String Theory speaks of additional dimensions but those above the 4 that we can sense allow travel through time and not space.
I think our chances for space voyage would be using conventional drives or quantum teleportation(both are handwaves but more plausible then anything in Freespace)
Bit of a late Quote, but Meh.
Your right in saying that in Einsteins model of reality, wormholes are plausible. However, like Newtonian physics and many other theories before it, it has become incomplete, even obsolete.
With what we are learning now with quantum mechanics and particle physics, it is plausible and even highly possible that wormholes and subspace actually do exist in one form or another. What i mean is that, instead of Subspace being a form of travel, it could be a form of power that could be utilised. If so, then it would be at a power greater then anything we have ever seen.
In addition to quantum mechanics and particle physics, there is also systems theory that is being learned about (Systems theory is the study of the nature of complex systems in nature, society, and science) which could provide a brand new way to look upon the world we live in. It could also provide us a way to broaden our minds to actually start looking at how the gadgets and technology that is shown in movies and games such as Star Wars, Freespace, Mass Effect and many others.
Heh. Looks like i did it again. I've been known to express my ideas and learnings in forums before. In an appropriate way though. And rarely, Its a brain drain :P.
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Subspace exists because I exist. End of discussion. :p
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Bit of a late Quote, but Meh.
Your right in saying that in Einsteins model of reality, wormholes are plausible. However, like Newtonian physics and many other theories before it, it has become incomplete, even obsolete.
With what we are learning now with quantum mechanics and particle physics, it is plausible and even highly possible that wormholes and subspace actually do exist in one form or another. What i mean is that, instead of Subspace being a form of travel, it could be a form of power that could be utilised. If so, then it would be at a power greater then anything we have ever seen.
In addition to quantum mechanics and particle physics, there is also systems theory that is being learned about (Systems theory is the study of the nature of complex systems in nature, society, and science) which could provide a brand new way to look upon the world we live in. It could also provide us a way to broaden our minds to actually start looking at how the gadgets and technology that is shown in movies and games such as Star Wars, Freespace, Mass Effect and many others.
Heh. Looks like i did it again. I've been known to express my ideas and learnings in forums before. In an appropriate way though. And rarely, Its a brain drain :P.
Relativity is not obsolete. It is simply incompatible with quantum mechanics. Attempts to unify the two occupy most of physics today.
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Who wants to bet that the next major discovery about how the universe works will go off at a tangent to everything we think we know about how it works...
basically - that the next major discovery will prove everything we think we know completly wrong...
I think this will happen, and im a physics student
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Subspace doesn't exist.
It's called Fry-space and is entered and exitied by Fry-Holes :nod:
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It has to be remembered that at the end of the 19th century, scientist thought they iknew how the universe worked, and that there were a few loose ends to be tied up, such as the non-smooth behaviour of the photoelectric effect and the direction of flow of the ether. However, in 1912 a swiss patent clerk wrote 3 scientific papers, two of which answered these questions by turning physics up side-down. The same could happen again, even in a field we think that we understand.
the answers to those questions, by the way were:
1) The ether has no flow as it doesn't exist.
2) The lack of smoothness in the photoelectric effect is because light travels around as packets of energy.