Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: CKid on July 31, 2008, 07:16:01 pm
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So I go to pickup the local morning paper and this is on the front page: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/story/4206568p-4798819c.html
BRANDON - Thirty-six passengers of a Greyhound bus travelling from Edmonton to Winnipeg Wednesday night watched in horror as a fellow passenger stabbed another man sleeping next to him, eventually decapitating him and waving the man's severed head.
I could never have believed that this kind of **** could happen here on the prairies.
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Silly Canadians.
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Silly prairie-goers.
That's horrible, although you should take a look at East-Vancouver or Toronto, or even some of the bad parts of Halifax.
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Makes me appreciate the Canadian government though, according to the BBC, all of the people on the bus are being given crisis counseling.
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Makes me ask one question, why?
What did the sleeping man do that was so horrible to be deheaded. :shaking:
Probable answer.... He was snoring to loud!!!!!
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Mental illness is a horrible thing.
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cool. its just sad i didnt think of it first.
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I'm fairly certain I would be decapitating people left and right if I ever found myself in Winnipeg.
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So what exactly did this guy use to cut his head off, a pocket knife?
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So what exactly did this guy use to cut his head off, a pocket knife?
Witness on the BBC called it a “rambo knife” which makes me think it was something like a ka-bar
Man decapitated on Canadian bus
Police investigate the scene near Portage La Prairie, Manitoba, Canada
Police say they do not know what may have provoked the attack
A man on a Greyhound bus travelling across the Canadian Prairies has killed and decapitated a fellow passenger.
An eyewitness said the victim was stabbed 50 or 60 times by the man sitting next to him, who then severed his head with a large knife.
The driver pulled over and passengers fled from the bus, bracing the door to keep the attacker inside.
A 40-year-old man was arrested after a stand-off lasting several hours and remains in police custody.
The bus, with 37 passengers and a driver aboard, was travelling from Edmonton, Alberta, to Winnipeg, Manitoba.
"All of a sudden, we all heard this scream, this bloodcurdling scream," passenger Garnet Caton told CBC television.
"The attacker was standing up right over the top of the guy with a large hunting knife - a survival, Rambo knife - holding the guy and continually stabbing him... in the chest area," Mr Caton added.
'Like a robot'
Bus passenger describes the attack
The attack continued as passengers fled the bus and waited for police on a desolate stretch of the TransCanada Highway near Portage la Prairie, Manitoba.
Mr Caton, the bus driver and a trucker who had stopped at the scene boarded the vehicle to see if the victim was still alive.
"When we came back on the bus... he was cutting the guy's head off and pretty much gutting him up," Mr Caton said.
The attacker ran at them, Mr Caton said, and they ran out of the bus, holding the door shut to prevent him getting out.
"He calmly walks up to the front [of the bus] with the head in his hand and the knife and just calmly stares at us and drops the head right in front of us," Mr Caton said.
"There was no rage in him ... It was just like he was a robot or something," he added.
map
A 40-year-old man was arrested by police at around 0100 (0700 GMT) on Wednesday night, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sgt Steve Colwell told reporters.
He said that police apprehended the suspect after a confrontation lasting several hours when the man broke a bus window and tried to escape.
The man has not yet been charged, Sgt Colwell said, adding that he could release no further information on the investigation.
The RCMP have not identified the suspect or the victim.
When the attacker tried to drive the bus away, the driver disabled the vehicle.
"Some people were puking, some people were crying, other people were in shock ... everybody was running, screaming off the bus," Mr Caton said.
Sgt Colwell said the "brave" behaviour of the passengers and driver probably prevented anyone else from being hurt.
Other passengers said that the attacker and his victim were sitting at the back of the bus and the victim, described as around 20 years old, was listening to music through headphones.
The attack appeared to be unprovoked and it is thought the killer did not know his victim.
The passengers have been taken to a hotel in Brandon, Manitoba, and are being given crisis counselling.
Man decapitated on Canadian bus (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7535840.stm)
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This is the time of the Indigo Prophecy. The child will soon appear to us.
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Hmm.
1) A grotesque, unprovoked, over-the-top attack, culminating in evisceration and decapitation
2) Victim chosen apparently at random, or for convenience
3) "There was no rage in him ... It was just like he was a robot or something"
You know, this smells like a case of demon possession.
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no goober
you are the demons
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If this happened in the US, we'd already have pundits/senators/reps/right-wingers blaming this on video game violence.
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jack thompson or whatever his name is...does seem to be gone now so we do seem to have a void.
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So what exactly did this guy use to cut his head off, a pocket knife?
It was said in the article to be a large kitchen knife.
no goober
you are the demons
And then Goober was the demons.
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More than anything else I just want to know what prompted this.
Hell, I'VE been the twenty-something sleeping on a Greyhound bus next to some weirdo more than once. This freaks me out.
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I think he is probably mentally ill, unlike the retards who claim mental illness to justify murdering someone.
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I demand to know how someone so obviously disturbed could have managed to stay out of a mental institution until he was 20.
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Actually, early to mid twenties is usually when schizophrenia manifests itself. Granted, there are usually warning signs long before, but under the wrong set of circumstances they could certainly be overlooked.
EDIT: But that's irrelevant because the guy was in his 40s. The victim was in his twenties.
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I demand to know how someone so obviously disturbed could have managed to stay out of a mental institution until he was 40.
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I demand to know why everyone just sat there and watched him do it. It ain't exactly easy to cut somebody's head off you know.
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Would you approach the man continually stabbing someone with a large knife?
My guess is that they were all too shocked to do anything until it was too late. Heroic? No. Understandable? Hell yes.
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It must have been a bus full of tourists. :drevil:
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Usually is.
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I demand to know why everyone just sat there and watched him do it.
Everyone was probably waiting someone to do something. Would have expected someone to try and intervene before he got the head off though.
Edit: it would have required instant action from someone to save the guy - I'd guess its pretty rare for people to manage that? Unless especially trained to do so. I mean, if you take the time for the normal WTF!? moment its already too late.
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Would you approach the man continually stabbing someone with a large knife?
My guess is that they were all too shocked to do anything until it was too late. Heroic? No. Understandable? Hell yes.
If carrying guns in Canada was legal and popular, someone's bullet would probably approach the guy and instruct him to stop.
Hell, if the gunman instructed the freak to stop from the other end of the bus, the freak would probably listen knowing he can be shot, but he can't stab the gunman.
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If carrying guns in Canada was legal and popular, the guy with the knife would have had a gun instead.
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288 - this proves that he'd be too scared to even think about it.
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Not really. The man was nutty enough to behead someone in a bus. I don't think he gave a **** about any sort of consequences.
That's an interesting link, though.
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That's an interesting link.
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No, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A) is an interesting link.
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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288 - this proves that he'd be too scared to even think about it.
You're right, all you need is a good amount of fear. Let's bring back the cold war then.
Incidentally, one example isn't statistically significant.
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I think they tried something similar to what was described in that "Gun Town USA" article in a county in Florida. (The county was near Miami and had a sky-high crime rate too.) They made it mandatory for every household to own one gun. Six months later, the crime rate in the county plummeted. At the same time, the crime rate in the surrounding five counties jumped 15% each. I'm curious to see the crime statistics for the area surrounding that town.
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1. The attacker is a recent (~4 years) immigrant to Canada according to the latest news reports. Mental illness can be late onset (usually triggered but a life-changing situation or event, such as immigration), and remain undetected unless close friends and family can recognize the signs and demand help. As a person living within an immigrant enclave, that is exceedingly unlikely.
2. Greyhound bus corridors are less than 2 feet wide, and the guy is wielding a large knife and already demonstrated the will to use it viciously. Everyone on board was exactly right not to intervene - you get the hell out of harm's way and let the police deal with it. Unless you know how to deal with close quarters knife fights and are right next to him, you have precisely ZERO chance of saving the victim and a really good chance of getting stabbed yourself.
3. Guns. *sigh*. First off, all weapons are not allowed to be carried on a bus. Handguns are perfectly legal in Canada as long as the proper procedures are followed (or at least most) as are long guns. However, no one would be carrying on a bus, and certainly not openly. Not to mention, unless you are police or active-service military trained you are much more likely to hit someone else in that cramped environment than the guy you're aiming for. This is a bus, not an empty street at high noon thanks. Don't be ridiculous.
4. Whether or not a gun was trained on the guy its pretty clear there is mental illness involved. Considering the victim was probably dead within the first few blows and how quickly they can be executed, the guy isn't stopping in time and probably not stopping at all. Use your brain - simplistic bravado is exactly what a proper analysis of this situation DOESN'T need.
As an aside, compare the violent crime rate in the town in that gun town USA article to the violent crime rate in a similar sized town in Canada and tell me what you see. I'm not telling you to look at it because of different philosophies on gun control (you can't; the underlying cultures are too different), but rather to compare similar cultures which differ on their attitudes toward guns and violence in general.
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Huh... it must be that kind of week
ATHENS, Greece (AP) -- A 31-year-old man killed his girlfriend on the Greek island of Santorini on Sunday, beheaded her, then fled in a patrol car, a local official said.
During the ensuing chase, the suspect was shot five times by police and ran over two women doctors who were riding a motorcycle before he was caught, the official said.
The suspect, Athanassios Arvanitis, a cook at a local restaurant, is undergoing surgery at an island hospital, said Chrysanthos Roussos, head of the Santorini district on the island.
Neighbors said that, following a heated argument, Arvanitis beheaded his girlfriend's dog with a butcher knife, then killed and beheaded the woman.
The victim, 25-year-old Adamantia Karkali, worked as a teacher at a local village, Angelos Roussos, the mayor of Thira, the island's main town, was quoted as saying by TV station Antenna. Angelos Roussos and Chrysanthos Roussos are not related.
Initially, Arvanitis roamed the village of Vourvoulos exhibiting Karkali's head, neighbors said. Townspeople said they locked themselves in their homes and called the police.
When a policeman tried to handcuff him, the suspect knifed the officer and flung the woman's head into a patrol car, Roussos said. The policeman was only slightly injured, police said.
Arvanitis then made off in a second patrol car and ran over the motorcycle before he was caught, Roussos said. One of the two doctors suffered multiple fractures, Roussos said. The other was uninjured.
As the police fired at Arvanitis to stop him, a stray bullet hit a woman bystander, injuring her slightly, police
Greek man held after girlfriend beheaded (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/03/greece.crime.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest)
It's rather remarkable everyone got off so lightly (except for the girlfriend of course)
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Those were the Atlanteans talking.
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Put them both in the same room and see if either of them says "There can only be one!"
Then we'll know.
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GamePolitics (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/08/01/violent-crazy-grownups-run-amok-week) raises a good point about this:
What is training the grownups to kill this week?
The bloody week began with Sunday's horrific church shooting in Knoxville, Tennessee by a 58-year-old who was a big fan of some of the same conservative pundits who blame video games for youth violence.
Today a 40-year-old guy randomly beheaded the guy sitting next to him on a Greyhound bus in Canada. In Wisconsin a camouflage-clad middle-aged man opened fire on some kids swimming in a local river, killing three.
Horrible, tragic stuff. And if we had three teens committing such atrocities in a single week, we'd probably have a congressional investigation underway by now. But adults who kill randomly will almost always be written off as crazy, which they probably are.
So why is it that video games are blamed for kids who kill? Why aren't young killers also seen as unbalanced people with access to weapons?
UPDATE: A few hours after I wrote this, a 32-year-old ne'er do well went on a workplace rampage, killing two people at a book distributing business located about 10 miles from GP HQ.
Food for thought.
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* Was about to give a couple of hints of "everyday" weapons that could be easily carried to a bus providing ample defence for a knife. Realised later that he could be blamed for people carrying that kind of oh-so-serious and absolutely lethal self-defence stuff with them, so don't do it, if you catch my drift. Even more you need to be afraid of the temptation since you might find them pretty much from every shop *
It is a good point that these old rampaging people are classified as crazy, while young ones tend to get twisted by playing violent games. Unfortunately, the young ones seem to actually go bonkers because of continuous bullying.
Mika
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I see Mika's point here, and he's right. People are afraid they'll kill someone if they have a "dangerous object" in their hands. It means some of us don't even trust ourselves, let alone other people. And giving the untrusted "others" the right to have a weapon is totally beyond mind capacity.
Maybe a few of us here need some more time away from the Internet, and in real life, preferably under serious stress, and with the need to make decisions while influenced by it.
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If I had my way, no one would have a weapon...
This was a decision brought about by serious stress in real life.
But that's obviously not possible, not practical, not even really moral. It's me trying to control the world to make me feel better.
Everyone has a real life, I don't think accusing people of otherwise is a suitable way to debate this.
As a matter of fact, can we please just keep weapons rights out of this thread? Go post it in the school shooting thread.
Thank you.
As far as the the age comparison I think it's true. If these were teenagers it would be blamed on computer games.
For some reason it seems like many adults have issues with the idea that teenagers can be raised wrong, gone wrong, or just born wrong.
I think that video games may play a part, but it would be as a part of a violent culture in general.
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If this happened in the US, we'd already have pundits/senators/reps/right-wingers blaming this on video game violence.
Everyone knows that video game learned violence only affects youth and not 40 year olds. What a total "duh" moment :lol:
If this was demon possession, then the demon spawn son of satan was breed from a group of random animals like a bear, raccoon, squirrel, etc. After of which being born the demon spawn needed a host and looked for a dark warm spot to enter into a human to take it over. Too bad there was no mountain lion cubs whose mother died that knew how to perform abortions to prevent this :no:
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If this was demon possession, then the demon spawn son of satan was breed from a group of random animals like a bear, raccoon, squirrel, etc. After of which being born the demon spawn needed a host and looked for a dark warm spot to enter into a human to take it over. Too bad there was no mountain lion cubs whose mother died that knew how to perform abortions to prevent this :no:
what
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If this was demon possession, then the demon spawn son of satan was breed from a group of random animals like a bear, raccoon, squirrel, etc. After of which being born the demon spawn needed a host and looked for a dark warm spot to enter into a human to take it over. Too bad there was no mountain lion cubs whose mother died that knew how to perform abortions to prevent this :no:
what
I repeat, what?
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No one understood the joke :lol: It's a southpark thing.
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I got it right away. Satanic Christmas animals FTW.
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I got it right away. Satanic Christmas animals FTW.
You would have won a free night of drinking at the local bar with me had you been anywhere around where i am :lol:
what
I repeat, what?
I gave away way too many clues to let people know what i was even on about too :p
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If I had my way, no one would have a weapon...
This was a decision brought about by serious stress in real life.
But that's obviously not possible, not practical, not even really moral. It's me trying to control the world to make me feel better.
Everyone has a real life, I don't think accusing people of otherwise is a suitable way to debate this.
As a matter of fact, can we please just keep weapons rights out of this thread? Go post it in the school shooting thread.
Thank you.
As far as the the age comparison I think it's true. If these were teenagers it would be blamed on computer games.
For some reason it seems like many adults have issues with the idea that teenagers can be raised wrong, gone wrong, or just born wrong.
I think that video games may play a part, but it would be as a part of a violent culture in general.
Since that was the last serious post here, I'll quote it and respond to it.
Feel free to write about the stressfull situation (with as little detail as you want of course), it might be close to the topic of this thread.
I'll also stick to blade weapons and possible motives here, posting similar ideas in 2 threads is overkill. :p
As for the computer games generating violence- people have been robbed and murdered since way before video games. The reason why the guy cut someone's head off is in his mind, not in movies, books or games.
Without his disorders he wouldn't do it, no matter if games inspire violent thoughts or not.
However, I agree with everyone blaming games and not his mental disorders if he was in his 20's and happened to have GTA 4 somewhere in his room.
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I agree with you too. Which makes me wonder about another thing that you posted about. People have been robbing, stealing, and killing way before video games came about. Hell people have even been going schizophrenic and crap before video games as well.
The one thing that made me curious is how come people didn't go crazy about comic books, fantasy books, lotr, etc. back in the day. Tv shows fit the category too. They're all immersive, some are great, and many are bad. How come someone isn't getting in the media from really good book learned violence, or really good tv show learned violence or something?
If people keep blaming video games for stuff, why not blame some other stuff. Idk if a situation like some dudes going out and killing random people, get arrested, get lawyers, and appear in court. Where the suspects may plead not guilty for reason of dungeons and dragons inspired hack and slash.
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The one thing that made me curious is how come people didn't go crazy about comic books, fantasy books, lotr, etc. back in the day. Tv shows fit the category too. They're all immersive, some are great, and many are bad. How come someone isn't getting in the media from really good book learned violence, or really good tv show learned violence or something?
They have.
TV show complaints started in the '50s and made a comeback in the '90s before people discovered videogames. (Hell, they're still whining about TV. I don't think they've ever stopped.)
In the late '80s and early '90s it was D&D and the accompanying Satanic Panic. (Gary Gygax died for your sins!)
In the '30s and again in the '50s it was comic books.
Around 1890 it was the paperback book.
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Around 1890 it was the paperback book.
It bends... just like your daughter's morals will!
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It bends... just like your daughter's morals will!
The really sad thing?
I swear my US History textbook sidebar on the subject included a phrase very much like that.
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The reason that video games have more attention in that respect is because people can actually kill the baby, as opposed to just watching it happen. I don't agree with this, it's been disproved in many instances. (VTech)
Another reason is mass-media. These theories/quacks can get out there and be heard much easier because of the many forms of long-distance communication and media, and because of the net. A good example of this is the "There are more crazy pedos now!" argument. There were pedos back in the 50s, and little kids getting into cars and never being seen again, but there was no mass-media to hype it.