Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nuclear1 on August 08, 2008, 08:44:44 pm
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So, they've started off with quite a blast. Not much to be said, but I'll be watching Michael Phelps and the US basketball team for some likely gold medals.
Thoughts on the Games?
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Singapore will fail as always.
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The Third Reich hosted the Olympics in 1936, so I'm guessing we have three years left until WWIII.
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The Third Reich hosted the Olympics in 1936, so I'm guessing we have three years left until WWIII.
How is China related to the third reich?
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They're, in some American words, "communist bastards that gotta be nuked". The reich thing was something similar.
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The Third Reich hosted the Olympics in 1936, so I'm guessing we have three years left until WWIII.
How is China related to the third reich?
All other comparisons aside, many buildings for Beijing Olympics were designed by Albert Speer Jr. which is just lol
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They're, in some American words, "communist bastards that gotta be nuked". The reich thing was something similar.
First off, communism is at the opposite end of the ideological spectrum from fascism -- even if the effects are often similar.
Second, America was quite reluctant to get involved in the war against Germany. It was Japan that drew the USA into World War II.
Third, most sensible Americans hope that change in China will come as a gradual relaxation of censorship and an increase in civil liberties -- not through violent war or revolution. I was hoping the Olympics would have some effect, but mostly it's just led to crackdowns.
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Olympics? College Football starts in three weeks, why should I be watching Olympics? (http://www.talkweather.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/elch.gif)
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http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/09/olympics.murder/index.html
BEIJING, China (CNN) -- A Chinese attacker stabbed to death the father-in-law of a U.S. Olympic coach and seriously wounded the American's wife and a Chinese tour guide before killing himself, the International Olympic Committee said Saturday.
Uh oh.
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Well off the topic of war . . . . I think that the good old UK of GB will do better at this than we did at Euroaudio (Eurovision is a false description :p) that 14 year old swimmer any has a decent chance. :yes:
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I sometimes think they really shouldn't let people younger than 18 compete in the games...
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I know how you feel. But if the youth can hack the stress and is a viable candidate i reckon let'em try :)
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I'm not much interested in this Olimpycs but I'm already sick and tired of how China is being show on the TV here as the best country on the planet! They got everything, the best culture, the best if weird food, the best etc, etc, etc!!!!!!!!! :hopping: :no:
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I know how you feel. But if the youth can hack the stress and is a viable candidate i reckon let'em try :)
It's more like how every female gymnast is 16.
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Singapore will fail as always.
I went to the toilet for a few seconds and missed Singapore's entrance.
I know how you feel. But if the youth can hack the stress and is a viable candidate i reckon let'em try :)
That's when all those goddamned Chinese parents make their kids fail all their proper education and do workouts every second of every minute of every hour of every day of their frikken life so that they can compete.
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believe me china is no shining star of the best.
how do you think they became communist in the first place? and what happened recently in tibet and along with china's neighbors. and i bet they didn't show what happened to china in a years the mongolians where at the peak of their strength.
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Meh, the olympics is just about money anyway. China threw a ****load of money at its athletes, so it'll get lots of medals. Australia did the same thing in Sydney. Still, it can be addictive to watch.
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I'm hoping for aussie gold in the hockey, cycling, rowing and in particular, swimming. One of our girls (Stephanie Rice) has become my new favourite olympic athlete when she won her heat in the 400m individual medley without even kicking her legs in the last frestyle leg :). By about a second too. Love it :D
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i support will be on my homeland, israel. however israel haven't been all that good in recent years, i know Pakistan will try something at football and hockey so my support is their also.
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It's more like how every female gymnast is 16.
Adds to the scenery at least.
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Adds to the scenery at least.
They're flat-chested too, mostly. :P
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not exactly my idea of what i want for a close friend or another wife, a flat chest woman. i have my opinon on such a thing. anyhow, anyone routing for Usain Bolt to take the world record?
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and what happened recently in tibet and along with china's neighbors. and i bet they didn't show what happened to china in a years the mongolians where at the peak of their strength.
Can I just say this? Tibet isn't a land of monks in robes or anything. They were a race of feudalistic rich ass holes which each owned hundreds of slaves and sh!t. Sure, that's not the whole story, but don't believe what the west are putting it out to be.
And why the hell do I find myself in General Discussion again? Argh.
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lol. even feudalistic rich asshols with their slaves still does not give china the right to go against tibet even so, we all went through that, soon enough they will learn the mistake instead of been taken on by china.
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lol. even feudalistic rich asshols with their slaves still does not give china the right to go against tibet even so, we all went through that, soon enough they will learn the mistake instead of been taken on by china.
Every time you post it makes me just hate you more, but you know that's just me.
Anyhow, I'm not saying China is 100% right, or that they are right at all. What I'm saying is that the Chinese government isn't some hostile sort of regime that the west is making it out to be. It's just a bit behind. Just a few years ago, America was doing the same thing, with the KKK running around and no one giving a ****. Right now, the Western media is just portraying China like a monster, but that's only because that's what they want you to see. This is why you can't believe LIVE on Fox! and rubbish like that. Believing all these stupid things that people told you is just being blind, you got to figure some things out for yourself, because the truth is never that simple. Just don't go all Flat Earther on me or anything.
My arguments are looking to me like conspiracy theories right now so I'll just go twiddle off somewhere else like Gen FS.
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They've spammed the Opening Ceremony with fireworks.
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keep your personal opinions to yourself, i dont want your pity. i dont attack you openly for anything, so why should you. i am not going to take this route any further, you can if you wish however i will not respond to such stuff i would like to keep this topic open as we can talk while not writing hate messages.
apparently 10,000 fireworks went off around that city of beijing.
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keep your personal opinions to yourself, i dont want your pity. i dont attack you openly for anything, so why should you. i am not going to take this route any further, you can if you wish however i will not respond to such stuff i would like to keep this topic open as we can talk while not writing hate messages.
Sorry about the I hate you comment, I was in the mood for saying things like that.
apparently 10,000 fireworks went off around that city of beijing.
And some people undoubtedly burned to death.
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I know how you feel. But if the youth can hack the stress and is a viable candidate i reckon let'em try :)
It's more like how every female gymnast is 16.
Olympians are meant to be the best representatives of a sport. Not the best representatives older than an arbitrary age limit. If the best gymnasts in the world are 16 then that's who should be competing. It seems stupid to me to tell someone who is at their peak athletic ability that they have to wait two years to compete.
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I thought the minimum age requirement is 18.
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I thought the minimum age requirement is 18.
Well evidently that's not the case.
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I'm hoping for aussie gold in the hockey
Hate to disappoint you. Unless you mean field hockey, in which case you may have a chance.
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BBC News tells me (seconds ago) that the majority of Fireworks for the opening ceremony were CGI Fakes,.... but if the BBC showed this live how can they admit to being duped? :wtf:?
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That 400 meter relay might have been the most exciting Olympic event I've seen in a long time.
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Olympians are meant to be the best representatives of a sport. Not the best representatives older than an arbitrary age limit. If the best gymnasts in the world are 16 then that's who should be competing. It seems stupid to me to tell someone who is at their peak athletic ability that they have to wait two years to compete.
Perhaps, but it seems a bit...exploitative, to be sending someone who isn't even a legal adult. I also met someone once who actually competed and got a bronze, and their take on it was that these people are not the best from a technical standpoint, only still at a stage in their lives where they are durable enough, or rather heal rapidly enough, to take the kind of punishment that results from Olympic (over)training and still manage to perform come game day. The real best performers are in their 20s, but they couldn't take the training regimen that people seem to think is required for an Olympic sport and still put in a good showing at the Games.
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I like the Olympics, and spent a good amount of time watching the various competitions over the weekend. That said, I think it's a shame that so many of the events that don't fit my definition of the word "sport" (both in the summer and winter games) garner the most attention.
My definition of "sport" is a competition where a clear winner or loser can be determined based upon concrete fact: having the fastest time, scoring the most points/goals, lifting the most weight or knocking your opponent out. Things like gymnastics, synchronized swimming, diving or figure skating, etc. where there are judges who determine the score and who is best are not sport, as far as I'm concerned. They are athletic showcases, subject to subjective (and corruptible) judging. It's the difference between being able to say "I/we won because we were the fastest/scored the most and any layman who witnessed the competition could tell you who won" AND "I/we won because someone specifically trained to do so judged us to be the best."
Two things to add - one, I am not saying that I don't think gymnasts or divers or figure skaters are not athletes - clearly they are athletically gifted and true competitors, but as far as I'm concerned their "sports" are closer to beauty pagents than they are to actual sport.
Second, I realize that many competitive games - soccer or baseball, for example, also include subjective aspects - referees calling outs or fouls, awarding penalties and so on which can vastly alter the outcome. This is a flaw in those sports, but even still, the end result is something anyone can point to and say "this team won," even if subjectively, one thinks that the win/loss was unfair. Unless there is evidence of corruption among the officials, the human element added to games of baseball, soccer, basketball and whatever else is an acknowledged element, just as is the weather.
That's my olympics/sports rant.
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Well, first doping case. A Spanish cyclist.
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BBC News tells me (seconds ago) that the majority of Fireworks for the opening ceremony were CGI Fakes,.... but if the BBC showed this live how can they admit to being duped? :wtf:?
I thought I could trust the BBC.
Do I have a right to be pissed off about all this anti-China stuff lately? I like China. China rules.
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There's too much censorship and repression for me to be comfortable with China. That said, aside from the political situation, China does rule.
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Perhaps, but it seems a bit...exploitative, to be sending someone who isn't even a legal adult. I also met someone once who actually competed and got a bronze, and their take on it was that these people are not the best from a technical standpoint, only still at a stage in their lives where they are durable enough, or rather heal rapidly enough, to take the kind of punishment that results from Olympic (over)training and still manage to perform come game day. The real best performers are in their 20s, but they couldn't take the training regimen that people seem to think is required for an Olympic sport and still put in a good showing at the Games.
Then surely someone could simply train some older competitors the correct way and watch them piss all over the 16 year olds then.
If people in their 20s are better at the sport then the way to prove that is to simply have people in their 20s win a few times in a row. Not to simply ban anyone under 18 on the grounds that 20 year olds are probably the best.
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I was at Tampines Mall just now and saw a small group of people sitting around three television sets outside the Starhub shop. All three sets were showing different games. At first, I was wondering what they were doing, sitting on the floor and all, then I walked past and saw the television screens and went, "Oh yeah, Olympics..." :p
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Cheapskates. .. . .. . .. . ..
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Cheapskates. .. . .. . .. . ..
Freeloaders, more like. :drevil:
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I'm hoping for aussie gold in the hockey
Hate to disappoint you. Unless you mean field hockey, in which case you may have a chance.
I Said hockey didn't I? Proper hockey came first, thus we have Hockey, and Ice Hockey. The term "Field hockey" is a silly foreign invention.
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I watched in amusement as the gang of coffeshop uncles that sit around drinking beer and watching football has increased in size ten-fold, and now watch Olympics instead.
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I watched in amusement as the gang of coffeshop uncles that sit around drinking beer and watching football has increased in size ten-fold, and now watch Olympics instead.
Those dudes freak me out. They all speak some mangled version of hokkien and malay.
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Equestrian event on BBC 1 :yes:
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I Said hockey didn't I? Proper hockey came first, thus we have Hockey, and Ice Hockey. The term "Field hockey" is a silly foreign invention.
What did you expect? I'm only surprised that we're not constantly having to tell them that Cricket isn't played on a diamond with a bowler who stands still. :p
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Those dudes freak me out. They all speak some mangled version of hokkien and malay.
Yea, but they're nice enough most of the time. And they're synchronized reactions are damn amusing. Plus, its a multi-racial gathering.
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Yea, but they're nice enough most of the time. And they're synchronized reactions are damn amusing. Plus, its a multi-racial gathering.
Which beer did that advertisement where the two guys hugged each other and screamed "GOAL!"?
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Carlsberg? Or Heinekien(sp?). One of the two.
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Heineken, I think.
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About the young competitors, my personal opinion is that the safe time to start training (more intensively) something is above the age of 14.
I always thought one of the things about Sports is to stay healthy. That theme should be present also in Olympic Games. How healthy are the Olympic Games participants around their 40s?
Do I have a right to be pissed off about all this anti-China stuff lately? I like China. China rules.
Have you been there?
Mika
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Canada still 0 medals... meeh.. COMMON CANADA THOUGH!
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Weightlifter just popped his elbow a few hours ago.
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Weightlifter just popped his elbow a few hours ago.
That ain't fun... poor dude..
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I've decided to root for Michael Phelps, if only to see if he can sweep the gold medals for the Olympics swimming.
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I've decided to root for Michael Phelps, if only to see if he can sweep the gold medals for the Olympics swimming.
He must have had lots of practice, or is on steroids. :lol:
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I didn't think much of phelps at first. But, holy crap. He just keeps up with the rest of the competitors, and then on the last lap from saving his energy just barrels ahead of everyone. Makes you wonder if there are going to be any other swimmers that will compare in the future. I wonder if he has enough golds. He'll definitely be in the next summer olympics.
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Weightlifter just popped his elbow a few hours ago.
Yeah, I read the newspapers just now. He's a Hungarian on his first Olympics. :(
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Have you been there?
Mika
Well, it better be nice, because my parents say they're going to send me there for an internship. But probably not before... national service (aww gawd). :shaking:
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Funny thing, you remember I was disturbed at how young the gymnasts were? Somebody digging around in the archival articles and such turned up an article for the LA Times; last year, one of China's gymnasts was 13 and was stated as such by an official of the Chinese government. But she's 16 this year.
In Communist China, birthday has you!
If the IOC was really on top of its game, they'll congradulate China on an excellent job when everything is done, then wait a week and pull that girl's gold. I've heard less-confirmable rumors some of the other gymnasts for the PRC are underage too.
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Mmmmmm loli.
Is it worrying that the only thing I noticed in that passage was that the girl was 13?
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Funny thing, you remember I was disturbed at how young the gymnasts were? Somebody digging around in the archival articles and such turned up an article for the LA Times; last year, one of China's gymnasts was 13 and was stated as such by an official of the Chinese government. But she's 16 this year.
I wouldn't doubt the Chinese government fixed some passports to get a few of those gymnasts into the competition.
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Funny thing, you remember I was disturbed at how young the gymnasts were? Somebody digging around in the archival articles and such turned up an article for the LA Times; last year, one of China's gymnasts was 13 and was stated as such by an official of the Chinese government. But she's 16 this year.
I wouldn't doubt the Chinese government fixed some passports to get a few of those gymnasts into the competition.
Well, there's a limit to how honest each individual government is...
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Is it worrying that the only thing I noticed in that passage was that the girl was 13?
That depends on how you reacted to it.
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:wakka:
Cheap bastards, although I thought that all medals were silver, and not gold.
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I don't think they use real gold in the Olympics; probably some cheap metal painted gold.
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I don't think any decent medal is "real" gold. More like an alloy of real gold and something to prevent it from bending.
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Since 1924, gold medals have been at least 92% silver with 6g gold plating.
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If the IOC was really on top of its game, they'll congradulate China on an excellent job when everything is done, then wait a week and pull that girl's gold. I've heard less-confirmable rumors some of the other gymnasts for the PRC are underage too.
They should go even further and pull the medals for the whole gymnastics team at least. Since it was a government conspiracy I think they should take every medal away from the entire Chinese team. If it was steroids then the person would be stripped, if the person was on a team the team would be stripped, if the country pushed it why not strip the country? Same with the age thing.
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Uughh. I knew something was up when he kexin was doing her gymnastic routines. She looks like she's 12 and just begun puberty. Like hell they're going to get to pass as 16. If she would have at least looked 16, i'd be giving china more credit, but since she looks like she most likely is, then no, the china's sneaky points don't get off the ground for me. If she really is 13 or 12, they should get her medal pulled. As well as the media that's going to make a huge blast out of the subject too. For china's biggest sporting event ever, and one of their coaches decides to be a dip****, china better get some heat.
Might as well pull her medal and get humiliated for unsuccessfully sneaking into the olympics. Because if she's not of age, then by all means she's not a competitor.
Yes take all of their medals, i advocate that for the most populous nation on the planet for being dumb for their biggest sporting event period. China took all this care and preparation to break the rules? I wonder how their orwellian experiment is going on at the same time?
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* CUT *
You should see the women's table tennis finals. It looks like an all-Chinese battle from different nations. :D
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Phelps nearly lost his 7th gold medal. Cockiness.
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The scoring was weird, but the US got gold and silver in all-around women's gymnastics. Cool!
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Singapore actually got a medal. o_O
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Well, it's probably better funded then some of the teams from Africa, sadly.
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Phelps getting too cocky. That seems totally likely. If he let's stuff go to his head he'll get one upped one of these days or later olympics. And with the way the american media is portraying him literally calling him unbeatable and everyone is just totally depending on that for the pride in the american swimming team...i hope phelps isn't listening too it because he doesn't need more pressure, or more reason for letting stuff get to his head. Then again phelps is pretty darn dedicated to his swimming. He eats, sleeps, the rest of him at the olympics is swimming the majority of his time.
EDIT: In other news...the orwellian experiment goes on. (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112722)
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And that's the eighth for Phelps. Go USA! :D
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It is said that China has the most gold medals so far...but America has the most medals.
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Olympic metals by country (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/medals)
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Olympic metals by country (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/medals)
I stand vindicated. :D
Arrr...I've hit 888 posts.
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My state's owned TV station has been broadcasting female volleyball matches just about every day... I've never been so proud of it! :D
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:( i wish i was there ghost.
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Olympic metals by country (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/medals)
I see Zinc, Copper, Iron, Carbon, and a bunch of other metals.
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Olympic metals by country (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/medals)
I see Zinc, Copper, Iron, Carbon, and a bunch of other metals.
You're forgetting Gold, Silver and Bronze metals ^^.
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They should go even further and pull the medals for the whole gymnastics team at least. Since it was a government conspiracy I think they should take every medal away from the entire Chinese team. If it was steroids then the person would be stripped, if the person was on a team the team would be stripped, if the country pushed it why not strip the country? Same with the age thing.
Oh please, that's getting a little ridiculous.
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Since when is being prepubescent an advantage in anything?
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Since the rest of the world wasn't allowed to bring in younger athletes, some of whom may be spectacular athletes.
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Since the rest of the world wasn't allowed to bring in younger athletes, some of whom may be spectacular athletes.
Oh please, it's not about the athletes. It's about the money used to train the athletes. That's how countries get medals. Michael Phelps wouldn't be raking in medals if he was working two jobs to cover pool and living expenses.
You want a level playing field? How about budgetary restrictions on olympic funding rated on a per discipline basis.
Age is irrelevant in comparison.
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Since when is being prepubescent an advantage in anything?
Greater flexiblity, and also gymnastics at that level has a lot to do with nerve. The younger you are, the more you are willing to attempt things that do not seem wise. The US team lost a medal because one of the girls lost her nerve, pretty much. Don't tell me being younger isn't an advantage.
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In addition to being more flexible they are also shorter and lighter. Also since it's Womens they probably haven't hit puberty yet so no extra curves to throw off center of gravity.
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In addition to being more flexible they are also shorter and lighter. Also since it's Womens they probably haven't hit puberty yet so no extra curves to throw off center of gravity.
I thought puberty starts at 11.
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Umm... it varies... widely, it can start as young as eight and old as fourteen, and I'm sure it can start older and younger given unusual enough circumstances
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I can't honestly take the Olympics seriously after I heard Phelps describe the Olympic Village as one giant orgy. I really can't.
I'm too ****ing envious of those ****ing Olympians!!
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Oh please, it's not about the athletes. It's about the money used to train the athletes. That's how countries get medals. Michael Phelps wouldn't be raking in medals if he was working two jobs to cover pool and living expenses.
I'd say it's also about other factors - country size and population.
When you have 300 million or 1 billion people as a pool for which to recruit talents - far different than when you have 5-10 million people from which to recruit athletes.
then of course the finances are also important. And steroids, additives and stuff like that.
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Oh please, it's not about the athletes. It's about the money used to train the athletes. That's how countries get medals. Michael Phelps wouldn't be raking in medals if he was working two jobs to cover pool and living expenses.
I'd say it's also about other factors - country size and population.
When you have 300 million or 1 billion people as a pool for which to recruit talents - far different than when you have 5-10 million people from which to recruit athletes.
then of course the finances are also important. And steroids, additives and stuff like that.
Steroids? You're referring to some of the athletes who got disqualified because they took steroids?
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Olympic metals by country (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/medals)
:lol: @ The American Website ranking it on medals won instead of Golds like every other site.
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Losing hurts
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:lol: @ The American Website ranking it on medals won instead of Golds like every other site.
Yeah. Especially as you could bet they'd rank it the other way round if they were in China's position. :D
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Yeah. Especially as you could bet they'd rank it the other way round if they were in China's position. :D
And if they were second either way, they'd do it alphabetically. With America, the United States of.
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They've knocked Great Britain down to 6th, we're doing extremely well at the minute though, 3rd in every other table.
Yeah. Especially as you could bet they'd rank it the other way round if they were in China's position. :D
And if they were second either way, they'd do it alphabetically. With America, the United States of.
And People's Democratic Republic of Algeria.
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Looking at the invividual athletes, it seems that the US and the Austrians have far more athletes who take multiple metals.
Not sure what that means, just putting it out there.
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Looking at the invividual athletes, it seems that the US and the Austrians have far more athletes who take multiple metals.
Not sure what that means, just putting it out there.
It means that say someone like Michael Phelps is a swimmer, but can win a golden metal by swimming the:
Men's 100m Butterfly, the Men's 4 x 100m Freestyle Relay, the Men's 4 x 200m Freestyle Relay, the Men's 200m Freestyle, the Men's 200m Butterfly, the Men's 200m Individual Medley and the Men's 400m Individual Medley.
And those eight put aside, there are nine more disciplines for men alone that Phelps could have participated in.
It's a very subjective thing.. It really depends on the type of sport you play. Athletics and swimming in particular are types of sports where a good athlete can participate in several disciplines that are very similar, but each have their own medals.
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Have to disagree with you there. Michael Phelps and Nastia Liukin/Shawn Johnson are really the only individually outstanding athletes. The other USA golds are going to be team sports--basketball, volleyball, etc etc
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Have to disagree with you there. Michael Phelps and Nastia Liukin/Shawn Johnson are really the only individually outstanding athletes. The other USA golds are going to be team sports--basketball, volleyball, etc etc
I think we're saying the same thing. If you look at teamsports like basketball, you have the women's and men's discipline. Where they have to play a lot of long games where in the end there's only one gold medal to gain.
If say at the time of the Olympics a certain country produces a talent that can dominate swimming, the country will see a far greater return in gold medals, than when they have a whole team that can absolutely dominate basketball.
The Aussies got 18 medals of their total of 33 from swimming alone.
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One of China's athletes has dropped out in the heats for the 110m mens' hurdles.
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The women's gymnastic judges are on drugs if they thought the Chinese beat Nastia Liukin's routine.
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The women's gymnastic judges are on drugs if they thought the Chinese beat Nastia Liukin's routine.
:lol:
The Chinese are good in gymnastics, but they're not the best.
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Well at least they ended the gymnastics part on a high note.
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Well at least they ended the gymnastics part on a high note.
Yeah...as compared to the Hurdles.
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The women's gymnastic judges are on drugs if they thought the Chinese beat Nastia Liukin's routine.
I believe the appropriate phrase is Sore Loser.
The British commentators may have expressed surprise that Nastia didn't beat He Kexin but they expressed about the same amount of surprise that both of them weren't beaten by Yang Yilin. So either way the winner would have been Chinese.
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Steroids? You're referring to some of the athletes who got disqualified because they took steroids?
No, I'm reffering to the fact that the list of allowed and disallowed substances is being re-written before each Olympics... some removed from the list, others added.
You know why? Because records need to be broken to keep things interesting. And as breaking them becomes harder and harder, more help in needed to do it.
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Performance enhancing drugs are banned in the Olympics. Ok, we can swing with that. But performance debilitating drugs should not be banned. Smoke a joint and win the hundred meters on fair play to you. That's pretty damn good. Unless someone's dangling a Mars bar off in the distance.
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I believe the appropriate phrase is Sore Loser.
The British commentators may have expressed surprise that Nastia didn't beat He Kexin but they expressed about the same amount of surprise that both of them weren't beaten by Yang Yilin. So either way the winner would have been Chinese.
:nod:
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Just watched what i believe was teenage girl diving. ;7 :yes:
Now its GB in Tae Kwon Do..
COME ON %$£%^ AVE IT MY SON !!!
He's quite bad really :sigh:
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The problem with gymnastics (and other like sports) is the absolutely subjective scoring. It's hard to take the medals seriously when athletes fall down or make big errors and still outplace others who performed less flawed routines because the starting difficulty was higher. Beyond the politics/personal preference involved in the judging (conscious or subconscious), you're giving people too much credit for their potential to outperform than for the actual performances themselves. I think the Olympic competition and perhaps the sport as a whole is incredibly flawed, in that the judges are constantly comparing apples to oranges - to make the competition more fair, athletes should have to perform the same routines, which can give you a direct side-by-side comparison. It might be more boring, but with the way things are now, it might as well just be a beauty pageant... And the tiebreaking system is also pretty lame - make them do a second routine if they are tied instead of arbitrarily eliminating scores and judges until you're down to different scores.
I find it entertaining to watch for the athletic ability showcased, but I just can't take it seriously as a competition when you have these shadowy judges who face very little scrutiny making questionable decisions that can absolutely crush someone who has trained their whole life for the chance to win.
Imagine if football or basketball was scored not by who scores the goals or gets the ball through the basket, but by how prettily the team moves the ball around, and it doesn't matter if the ball goes in the net or not... that's gymnastics.
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Imagine if football or basketball was scored not by who scores the goals or gets the ball through the basket, but by how prettily the team moves the ball around, and it doesn't matter if the ball goes in the net or not... that's gymnastics.
Yeah. That would be dreadful, Brazil and Italy would win almost every championship.
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Is there a video depository of '08 Olympic footage? I've done some minor searching, and can't seem to find anything that doesn't involve the atheletes talking about their childhoods, or the like.
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NBCOlympics.com should have a fair amount of the footage.
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Is there a video depository of '08 Olympic footage? I've done some minor searching, and can't seem to find anything that doesn't involve the atheletes talking about their childhoods, or the like.
...what? I thought there was Television coverage of the Olympics on the other side of the world as well. Maybe my local TV station wasn't lying after all...
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I believe the appropriate phrase is Sore Loser.
The British commentators may have expressed surprise that Nastia didn't beat He Kexin but they expressed about the same amount of surprise that both of them weren't beaten by Yang Yilin. So either way the winner would have been Chinese.
Uh huh. The Australian judge that made the decision got a hell of a lot of flak from (some of) the American public. It was on our news. IIRC they thought that she was either biased against the US or biased towards China.
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Except that my point was that one of the Chinese athletes who made 3rd place did better than both the Chinese athlete who won and the American who came second. So it's pretty hard to claim bias.
Hell, some of the Chinese spectators booed when they heard the score for Yang Yilin since it put her in 3rd place and they probably felt (as I do) that she deserved the gold.
So either the judges are seeing something we aren't or BOTH Nastia and Yilin were robbed. Which is why I'm saying that I feel it's sour grapes from the Americans. I hear all kinds of comments about how Nastia was robbed but having watched all three medalists again I can't see how anyone is going to tell me she deserved gold. At best she deserved silver which is what she got. :p
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http://www.cnn.com/si/2008/olympics/2008/08/21/bc.oly.gym.underage.chinese.ap/index.html?cnn=yes
Looks like there will at least be an investigation.
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A She called He....
That's bloody confusing....
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Which is why I'm saying that I feel it's sour grapes from the Americans.
Well, considering at least two of the Chinese gymnasts are underage (Yang Yilin included), neither of the two Chinese girls should have been competing on that event, or in the Olympics for that matter. Therefore, Nastia was robbed because China cheated to get these girls into the games in the first place. Nevermind the fact the judges have been showing favoritism towards the Chinese gymnasts for the last several days of the events, or were just incompetent.
Say whatever you want, there is no way He Kexin or Yang Yilin are 15/16 years old.
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That's a different argument from the one you originally presented. If you want to have the discussion about age that's fine but your original argument was that Nastia was better.
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That's a different argument from the one you originally presented. If you want to have the discussion about age that's fine but your original argument was that Nastia was better.
Beyond a certain level of performance (not falling and executing mostly well) the scoring and interpretation of gymnastics routines are completely subjective. There is no qualitative way to score the competition - if there was, the judges would all be coming up with the same scores, instead of sometimes wildly varying ones. If he thinks Nastia was better on one event and you think Yang was, that comes down to opinion, there's really no factual way to determine who is right or wrong.
As a very casual spectator of gymnastics and also the diving competition, I found myself constantly confused by the scoring - I couldn't see flaws or significant differences between two performances, but the scores would be quite different for no reason I could see nor the commentators could explain. And you have to think something is wonky when out of two athletes doing two vaults, one lands both and looks pretty good and the other looks good on one but totally screws the landing on the other and still gets a better score...
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Imagine if football or basketball was scored not by who scores the goals or gets the ball through the basket, but by how prettily the team moves the ball around, and it doesn't matter if the ball goes in the net or not... that's gymnastics.
Yeah. That would be dreadful, Brazil and Italy would win almost every championship.
I don't know if you've ever watched Italy play football, they're essentially the polar opposite of Brazil. Arsenal would win the Treble every year though instead of winning nothing.
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Beyond a certain level of performance (not falling and executing mostly well) the scoring and interpretation of gymnastics routines are completely subjective. There is no qualitative way to score the competition - if there was, the judges would all be coming up with the same scores, instead of sometimes wildly varying ones. If he thinks Nastia was better on one event and you think Yang was, that comes down to opinion, there's really no factual way to determine who is right or wrong.
As a very casual spectator of gymnastics and also the diving competition, I found myself constantly confused by the scoring - I couldn't see flaws or significant differences between two performances, but the scores would be quite different for no reason I could see nor the commentators could explain. And you have to think something is wonky when out of two athletes doing two vaults, one lands both and looks pretty good and the other looks good on one but totally screws the landing on the other and still gets a better score...
Just because you can’t see the difference between two performances doesn’t mean it isn’t there. There’s a reason they don’t just pull people off the street and hand them a scorecard – those judges train for years and take difficult tests to qualify to judge at this level, and they know what they’re doing.
As a former gymnast myself, I can say that although there is some leeway in the scoring, it is not entirely subjective. The judges have to adhere to something called the Code of Points, which is established by the International Gymnastics Federation and tells them what deductions they are allowed to take for what kind of mistakes. Some of these possible deductions given as ranges, so if one judge takes the minimum and another takes the max, that can account for some difference between them. But most of the time they arrive within a tenth or two of each other, which certainly wouldn’t happen if they were just looking at the routine and saying “Eh, that looks like a 9.55 to me.”
They write down every deduction they take, and if someone challenges their decision the scores are subject to review by the competition officials. If they differ too widely, they try to find out where the discrepancy came from – it’s usually because someone missed something that another judge didn’t, and the competition officials will help to determine which interpretation was correct. They can’t post the final score until they reach some kind of agreement about the facts of what happened.
The mistakes that people can commonly identify – falling, wobbling, stumbling on the landing – are important, but they’re not the only thing that affects the score. The judges see a lot that you don’t, and they have to account for that in the scores. For example, the gymnast who has a mostly solid-looking routine might have failed to reach a full split on one of her leaps, or have stalled a little too long between skills that were supposed to be connected. Both of those are hefty deductions that may even lose credit for the skill entirely.
There are very specific requirements for what has to go into a routine, and if something’s missing – something that you might not know unless you were familiar with these requirements – then the routine may not score as highly as one that met all the requirements, no matter how cleanly it was executed.
That’s not to say that some of the gymnastics scoring wasn’t dodgy. As I said, the judges have a bit of wiggle room – a deduction might range from one to three tenths, depending on the severity of the error and the judgment of the officials – and that can add up, if the judges take a particular liking or disliking to a particular athlete or her style. But it’s really not just a matter of opinion, even educated opinion.
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Is there a video depository of '08 Olympic footage? I've done some minor searching, and can't seem to find anything that doesn't involve the atheletes talking about their childhoods, or the like.
...what? I thought there was Television coverage of the Olympics on the other side of the world as well. Maybe my local TV station wasn't lying after all...
There were only two events (shooting and table tennis) I was interested in, and they showed them at times when I couldn't watch. NBC seems to have dropped the ball with their footage, as well. :/
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If you think Gymnastics was bad, try table tennis. All three medals in the womens' singles event went to China.
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Russia have overtaken Team GB in 3rd.
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I split off the discussion of the ranking system.
Looks like team GB are going to finish 4th now since we have no competitors left. Fairly respectable considering we were 10th last time. Hopefully we can improve on that in 2012. A lot of the younger athletes do seem to have been seeing this as a trial run for 2012.
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If you think Gymnastics was bad, try table tennis. All three medals in the womens' singles event went to China.
That's not surprising, China kicked ass in table tennis long before they started throwing money at their athletes.
There were only two events (shooting and table tennis) I was interested in, and they showed them at times when I couldn't watch. NBC seems to have dropped the ball with their footage, as well. :/
CBC always shows the same **** every year. Not once, have I EVER seen anything like Fencing, or Handball or Tae Kwon Do on CBC. Of the three I only care about TWD mind you. . . . Hell Canada won two medals in women's wrestling, was that on TV? Not bloody likely. Apparenlty some or most of these events are on the dedicated-CBC sports channels but not everyone wants to 200 channels when they only watch 1-2 hours of TV per week. But the regular CBC channel just shows the same thing EVERY SINGLE OLYMPICS.
So honestly who gives a ****.
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I think Britain will do better at the next Summer Olympics. The competitors will be competing on their own homeground, so they'll probably fight a little harder than usual. ;)
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CBC always shows the same **** every year. Not once, have I EVER seen anything like Fencing, or Handball or Tae Kwon Do on CBC. Of the three I only care about TWD mind you. . . . Hell Canada won two medals in women's wrestling, was that on TV? Not bloody likely. Apparenlty some or most of these events are on the dedicated-CBC sports channels but not everyone wants to 200 channels when they only watch 1-2 hours of TV per week. But the regular CBC channel just shows the same thing EVERY SINGLE OLYMPICS.
That's the reason I shoved all of the various NBC-owned networks into our cable service's favorites menu, so that I'd get a chance to see a few of the more esoteric sports in-between watching Phelps clean up at the pool. NBC's Olympics site had all kinds of live/archived streaming video from just about every event, too, even though I didn't get to take advantage of most of it. Hell, the only reason I know what curling is right now is because I was watching it at 4AM on MSNBC while Torino was going on. :p
Speaking of cleaning up, how about China losing out on its diving sweep the other day? I'd hate to be in that second-place guy's shoes right now; having 1.3 billion people be utterly pissed at you probably isn't a great feeling.
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They do have over 50 Gold medals. In anycase the Olympics is over now. We can now wait another 4 years for the London Olympics.
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They do have over 50 Gold medals. In anycase the Olympics is over now. We can now wait another 4 years for the London Olympics.
Well I think the pre-olympic estimate was 46 so the Chinese have to be happy anyway. For another week or two, until everyone stops caring about the olympics for another two years.
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And assuming their gymnastics medals aren't revoked, or the IOC doesn't decide to go ape**** on them since the Chinese government was obviously complicit in that and take away everything.
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Well I think the pre-olympic estimate was 46 so the Chinese have to be happy anyway. For another week or two, until everyone stops caring about the olympics for another two years.
I've stopped caring right after the Opening Ceremony.
The record for most gold medals won goes to the former Soviet Union with 55. Perhaps only the European Union can beat that. :nervous:
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The UN won all medals by that logic.
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The UN won all medals by that logic.
:lol:
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The UN won all medals by that logic.
Controversial! Taiwan won 4. :p
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We'll do better next time, the crowds will have to make it to their hotels safely through Hackney and Plaistow(ish)
Home grounds advantage :nod:
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The UN won all medals by that logic.
Controversial! Taiwan won 4. :p
954 vs 4 then. I think we've established who wears the pants in the relationship. :p
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The UN won all medals by that logic.
Controversial! Taiwan won 4. :p
954 vs 4 then. I think we've established who wears the pants kinky gear in the relationship. :p
Fixed.
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Doesn't work the same.
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By 2012, my handpicked squad of terrorists will be causing mass food poisoning in London. :drevil:
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Wouldn't that best be left to trashman?
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That won't matter by then food will be in pill form and we'll live in space.
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By 2012, my handpicked squad of terrorists will be causing mass food poisoning in London. :drevil:
Just put faith in good old British cuisine and you needn't bother. :D
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Pie and mash and jellied eels beats burgers pizza and o i forgot america doesn't have a national dish :p
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Pie and mash and jellied eels beats burgers pizza and o i forgot america doesn't have a national dish :p
McDonalds?
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Hamburgers come from Hamburg surely?
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Nope, hamburgers were invented in the states. The name comes from "hamburg steak" which was a form of pounded steak from Germany.
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Hamburgers come from Hamburg surely?
Well, German chocolate was first made in The States. So....
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Orly even the chocolate from before it was discovered?
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Now how did we derail into a topic on food? Request a split?
For even more derailment...
I prefer Swiss cheese. :D
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Damn Romania has really fallen at this years Olipics.
Damn reigning champions only managed to get what 2 gold medals at gimnastics?? Damn thats a low blow for our pride. We haven done this poor at Olipics for what 30 or 40 years??
Stupid idiot coach.
He relaxes the rules he alowes the gimnasts to get out and party once in a while they even alow them to eat chocolate now . OMG.
The old coaches that were awesome were brushed aside and now they have this idiot.
"The training methods are too hars to draconian for human beeing" Freaking idiots lazy gimnasts.
If you wanna be the best you have to train really hard .
I want them old ones back :((
Maybe this time we can at least win the World's ! I hope !
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It may have cost some golds, but I'm glad those gymnasts get to have a life. Considering that gymnasts burn out by age twenty-ish, they need to have something to do afterwards.
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Damn Romania has really fallen at this years Olipics.
Damn reigning champions only managed to get what 2 gold medals at gimnastics?? Damn thats a low blow for our pride. We haven done this poor at Olipics for what 30 or 40 years??
Stupid idiot coach.
He relaxes the rules he alowes the gimnasts to get out and party once in a while they even alow them to eat chocolate now . OMG.
The old coaches that were awesome were brushed aside and now they have this idiot.
"The training methods are too hars to draconian for human beeing" Freaking idiots lazy gimnasts.
If you wanna be the best you have to train really hard .
I want them old ones back :((
Maybe this time we can at least win the World's ! I hope !
Go live as you preach for a few months, and then come back here.
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no fun or nuffinks :(