Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: General Battuta on August 17, 2008, 05:53:42 pm
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Quick question: which fighter mounted weapons have the big damage flag? Specifically, does the Trebuchet?
I can't get at the tables because I'm on a Mac and there's no way to view VPs.
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Bombs, and perversely the EMP Adv. missile.
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I can't get at the tables because I'm on a Mac and there's no way to view VPs.
Maja VP editor doesn't work on Mac? :nervous:
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I can't get at the tables because I'm on a Mac and there's no way to view VPs.
Maja VP editor doesn't work on Mac? :nervous:
It does for me :wtf:
And yes, the Trebuchet has the "huge" flag, which is odd, because that means that the AI will never fire it at bombers...
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I could never kill that Moloch at the end of the first mission where the Aquataine escapes the nebula with EMP... does the missile do no damage or something?
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The EMP only does 45 damage which is the same as a Rockeye. It also doesn't have the Huge flag.
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And yes, the Trebuchet has the "huge" flag, which is odd, because that means that the AI will never fire it at bombers...
...another programming error on the part of :v:? :nervous:
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obviously. Though, in fact, it's the 'bomber+' flag that breaks it.
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obviously. Though, in fact, it's the 'bomber+' flag that breaks it.
Well, it's the fact that the "huge" flag is used in conjunction with the "bomber+" flag that makes it not work. But seeing as it was intended as an anti-bomber weapon, I'd say the "huge" flag is more out of place...
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The EMP only does 45 damage which is the same as a Rockeye. It also doesn't have the Huge flag.
Yes it does. I used it to kill the Tiamat on that mission! Granted, it takes forever to deal that last few percent, but it does work (and continuous bombardment with heavier non-bomb weapons doesn't.)
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Yes it does.
:wtf: No ... it doesn't. Look at the table.
$Flags: ( "player allowed" "EMP")
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So it doesn't have the big damage flag either...
except I know it did.
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So it doesn't have the big damage flag either...
except I know it did.
Well it doesn't. It may have changed between retail version 1.00 and 1.20 or something.
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Yes it does.
:wtf: No ... it doesn't. Look at the table.
$Flags: ( "player allowed" "EMP")
Whoa...I was definitely using EMP Advanceds, and they definitely killed the Tiamat. I was using a 3.6.10 trunk build at the time.
How's that possible?
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IIRC, in some recent SCP builds all capital ships are killable, it's just the last 1% is a lot more resistant to damage.
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Retail was that way as well. I think all the flag does is determine weather or not the damage done by the weapon on the last 10% of the ships hull is reduced. You could theoretically kill a Lucifer with a maxim if you held down the crtl key for a week.
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Retail was that way as well. I think all the flag does is determine weather or not the damage done by the weapon on the last 10% of the ships hull is reduced. You could theoretically kill a Lucifer with a maxim if you held down the crtl key for a week.
But you'd end up with arthritis using that method. Which is why I've assigned primary fire on "D".
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I was thinking more along the lines of disarming the ship and then setting something heavy on the key.
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... or that.
But I'm still not giving up on my "D" configuration.
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Could someone double check Snail... no offense, but I think he's wrong.
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Could someone double check Snail... no offense, but I think he's wrong.
From root_fs2.vp
$Flags: ( "player allowed" "EMP")
He's not. Why don't you double check it? :p
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Because I haven't had FS2 on my computer in over 6 months.
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I checked before I ever posted. :pimp:
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The thing is, this was even mentioned in the Wiki as a way to kill the Tiamat, and it was in for months until someone removed it. Even Goob approved it. The flag must have been there at some point.
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I left four fighters on co-op firing continuous Prometheus, Subach, and Hornet salvos into the Tiamat for over ten minutes on full time acceleration -- hours of in-game time. The corvette did not die.
The same ship, however, died from a few dozen EMP hits once it was down to 1%.
Weird!
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The thing is, this was even mentioned in the Wiki as a way to kill the Tiamat, and it was in for months until someone removed it. Even Goob approved it. The flag must have been there at some point.
I've been editing many of the FreeSpace 2 campaign articles over the past week, and all I saw on the Proving Grounds page was that shooting EMPs at the Oberon will cheese Delta wing off and make them attack you.
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Does anybody have a copy of the original 1.00 retail tables?
Alternately, does the EMP flag behave like the huge flag?
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I've been editing many of the FreeSpace 2 campaign articles over the past week, and all I saw on the Proving Grounds page was that shooting EMPs at the Oberon will cheese Delta wing off and make them attack you.
It was removed still more months ago.
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Does anyone still have their FS2 CDs? I'm pretty sure the Huge flag was in there at some point.
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This install came off Turey's, though, not the FS2 CDs. So why would it be behaving like retail?
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The EMP generates a shockwave, no other weapons available in that mission do, the shockwave damage is probably causing the Corvette's death.
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It shouldn't matter
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I thought the shockwave of an EMP. does minimal damage. It shouldn't be able to kill a warship.
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I thought the shockwave of an EMP. does minimal damage. It shouldn't be able to kill a warship.
If it deals any damage at all and you fire enough of them, eventually it'll kill the warship.
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That's a reasonable explanation...it is only 1% hull damage, after all.
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Not on capships
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Has anyone made any updated tables with all these niggling little things fixed?
Trebs not being used against bombers, Myrmidon being able to carry the Helios but not the Harpoon, Faustus having a fighter armament on one of its turrets...
The list is endless.
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Has anyone made any updated tables with all these niggling little things fixed?
Trebs not being used against bombers, Myrmidon being able to carry the Helios but not the Harpoon, Faustus having a fighter armament on one of its turrets...
The list is endless.
No, because it would upset things balance-wise. If anyone wants to do this for their own campaign, they are more than welcome to.
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It wouldn't make that much of a difference, really.
And there's some stuff in the tables which is definitely a mistake rather than a game-balance decision, like the LOD distances on Hippocrates.
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The Freespace Upgrade project addresses those kinds of obvious bugs, like the Hippo LODs and the swapped shield segments on the Bakha.
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Has anyone made any updated tables with all these niggling little things fixed?
Trebs not being used against bombers, Myrmidon being able to carry the Helios but not the Harpoon, Faustus having a fighter armament on one of its turrets...
The list is endless.
I'm pretty sure the Myrm's not accidental. The other ones...maybe, but I doubt the Faustus is accidental either.
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Well I can't imagine that it's deliberate. It's out of place to say the least.
$Subsystem: turret01, 2, 1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret Weak" )
$Subsystem: turret02, 2, 1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret Weak" )
$Subsystem: turret03, 2, 1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret Weak" "Akheton SDG" )
$Default SBanks: ( "Tempest" "Rockeye" )
$SBank Capacity: ( 50,50 )
$Subsystem: turret04, 2, 1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Subach HL-7" )
$Subsystem: turret05, 2, 1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Subach HL-7" )
$Subsystem: turret06, 2, 1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Subach HL-7" )
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It's been that way since FS1. In fact, for the FS2 tables, they assigned it FS2 weapons.
I can't imagine :v: would go through that effort, and leave it for so long, if it wasn't deliberate. It may be nonsensical, but it wasn't accidental.
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Perhaps they just used Ctrl+H (in Notepad) and replaced all instances of ML-16 Laser with Subach HL-7 and all instances of Fury with Tempest and etc.
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The Ma'at has one, too:
$Subsystem: turret01, 3,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: turret02, 3,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Terran Turret" )
$Subsystem: communication, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: engine, 25,0.0
$Subsystem: navigation, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: sensors, 5,0.0
$Subsystem: weapons, 15,0.0
$Subsystem: turret03, 3,1.0
$Default PBanks: ( "Mekhu HL-7" )
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No, that turret is a "heavy" turret (it even has a different shape) and so wields a more useful weapon. The Faustus turret is an oddball because it looks exactly the same as all the others (and isn't even in a prominent position) yet has a really weird armament.
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If the Faustus was given an AAA turret, will it have a higher survival rate on a battlefield?
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There are more of these things. The Hecate's rearmost big flak cannon is much weaker than the other three, since its strength value is switched around with some other turret on the ship. This is easy to see if you look at its ships.tbl entry.
As for the Faustus, the real issue with it is that the turret armaments are not symmetric. Turrets 3 and 4 mirror each other on the ship but fire totally different weapons.
I can't imagine :v: would go through that effort, and leave it for so long, if it wasn't deliberate. It may be nonsensical, but it wasn't accidental.
They probably never noticed these things since they don't have much effect on any of the default campaign or multiplayer missions.
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The Hecate's turrets are really messed up... but since they got the big beams right, noone really notices.
I wanted to say that the Iceni is messed up, but I realized that it hasn't appeared in a single mission without its turret armament different from the last time it appeared (aside from the first two where it doesn't even shoot).
The Myrmidon has to be accidental - a relic from testing or something. No logic dictates it should be carrying anti-destroyer torpedoes half its own size...
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Indeed.
And it's supposed to be a space-superiority fighter, so it's supposed to spend its time killing other figthers, and yet it can't carry the GTVA's main anti-fighter missiles. Madness.
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If the Faustus was given an AAA turret, will it have a higher survival rate on a battlefield?
The Hinton has AAAf turrets.
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The Myrmidon has to be accidental - a relic from testing or something. No logic dictates it should be carrying anti-destroyer torpedoes half its own size...
I agree. Even if they did mean for it to be versatile enough to carry bombs, they would have given it the Cyclops. The Helios is supposed to be a special purpose weapon that even many of the bombers can't carry.
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What I like about the Myrmidon is its six gun banks.
What I don't like about the Myrmidon is that its missile banks are so small. And it doesn't even match up to the Dragon's speed and manoeuvrability.
The Helios is a special issue weapon, which means that it isn't distributed all over the GTVA.
By the way, Stilettos can be shot down, right?
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What I like about the Myrmidon is its six gun banks.
What I don't like about the Myrmidon is that its missile banks are so small. And it doesn't even match up to the Dragon's speed and manoeuvrability.
The Helios is a special issue weapon, which means that it isn't distributed all over the GTVA.
By the way, Stilettos can be shot down, right?
Six gun banks can be very useful in some situations. You'd be surprised how much damage six subachs can do. If available, I like to put a Prometheus S in the quad bank, and then I usually put a morning star in the dual bank (mainly for shooting down bombs and getting fast fighters in a place where I can kill them). Granted, its missile capacity and armor won't hold out in a long fight, but it has decent speed and maneuverability. I like to bring the Myrmidon on missions like Endgame, where tornadoes are available and you won't have *too* many enemy fighters attacking you at once. Overall, I think the Myrmidon is underrated because people expect it to perform well in situations where it has no place. The Helios thing is weird though...
And yes, Stilettos can be shot down.
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Six gun banks can be very useful in some situations. You'd be surprised how much damage six subachs can do. If available, I like to put a Prometheus S in the quad bank, and then I usually put a morning star in the dual bank (mainly for shooting down bombs and getting fast fighters in a place where I can kill them). Granted, its missile capacity and armor won't hold out in a long fight, but it has decent speed and maneuverability. I like to bring the Myrmidon on missions like Endgame, where tornadoes are available and you won't have *too* many enemy fighters attacking you at once. Overall, I think the Myrmidon is underrated because people expect it to perform well in situations where it has no place. The Helios thing is weird though...
That's probably why I initially liked the Myrmidon more than I liked the Hercules Mark II. :D
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4 Kysers an 2 disruptors work well too.
From the description of the Myrmidon: "This versatility enables Myrmidon squadrons to fulfill a range of combat roles, from light assault to heavy reconnaissance."
Seems to me heavy recon would need bombs of some type. I always looked at it as the Myr was designed around the ability to carry Helios in a long range strike capacity where both aspects of a fighter and bomber would be needed.
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It's not like it can carry a LOT of Helios. I think the large 3rd bank can carry two. If you made the Myrmidon able to carry Cyclops, it could then carry several torpedos. Even though the torpedos are more damaging, carrying less still gives the illusion you're not toting around a bunch of bombs.
I'd think they'd be quite useful in a surgical strike capacity. A Myrmidon isn't designed to bring down a warship, but you can knock out a Fenris maybe a Leviathan and knock out some systems and turrets on larger warships.
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It's not like it can carry a LOT of Helios. I think the large 3rd bank can carry two. If you made the Myrmidon able to carry Cyclops, it could then carry several torpedos. Even though the torpedos are more damaging, carrying less still gives the illusion you're not toting around a bunch of bombs.
I'd think they'd be quite useful in a surgical strike capacity. A Myrmidon isn't designed to bring down a warship, but you can knock out a Fenris maybe a Leviathan and knock out some systems and turrets on larger warships.
If the Myrmidon is designed to do surgical strikes, it would've been configured to carry the Stiletto.
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It's not like it can carry a LOT of Helios. I think the large 3rd bank can carry two. If you made the Myrmidon able to carry Cyclops, it could then carry several torpedos. Even though the torpedos are more damaging, carrying less still gives the illusion you're not toting around a bunch of bombs.
I'd think they'd be quite useful in a surgical strike capacity. A Myrmidon isn't designed to bring down a warship, but you can knock out a Fenris maybe a Leviathan and knock out some systems and turrets on larger warships.
If the Myrmidon is designed to do surgical strikes, it would've been configured to carry the Stiletto.
It seems then that the Myrmidon is the assassin of the GTVA. :P
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Zeta wing, I know you're just on a scout mission, but will you take the beams off of that Sathanas please? Thanks.
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Seriously, of transports or light cruisers. Especially transports when they are carrying enemy commanders or something like that. Helios bombs too, so before the enemy realizes what the Myrm squad is doing, their commander is dead.
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It's one of those "it's canon, so I'll accept it from the main campagin" things, I think it's really stupid, even laughable, that the Myrmidon has Helios bombs. Even if it could carry 2 cyclops bombs it would be okay, but four Heliei is beyond pushing it.
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Yes, a Myrmidon, which is a standard space-superiority fighter carrying 4 of the most powerful bombs available is . . . really weird. But you can't say that it doesn't go amiss right? :) (Especially in gauntlet missions - by the time the destroyer turns up, your bomber is long dead)
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Do you know any current state of the art military aircraft (not counting UAV's) that can't carry nukes? I've never really understood why if the FREDer wanted he couldn't remove the anti-fighter weapons and equip a couple of Helios on a Herc or even stick one on a Stealth. Having one or two armed with nukes in a pack would be a heck of a surprise.
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:v: table maker: "yeah i'll be at the strip club to celebrate finishing fs2 and now to add the last allowed weapon to the Myrmidon"
:v: co-worker (possibly DaveB) "Lap dances on me!"
:v: table maker glances at wrong section and mis-types subconcously "H. . . Must be a harpoon"
*does a quick file save, e-mails to next phase and scoots to Peppermint Rhino.
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I prefer to think that they didn't have enough sleep. ;)
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If the helios was a mistake why wasn't it in the 1.1 patch?
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For great justice?
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Can't remember off hand but maybe in the missions with the Helios in the main FS2 campaign the Myrmidon wasn't present to test it out. Or perhaps what a friend said.
From Reviews of Space Marines of Warhammer 40K Youtube Vid
People with an open dislike have a secret admiration
Just a comment.
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:wtf:
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Yes, looking back it was a rather dumb thing to write, but I thought it sounded ok.
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Can't remember off hand but maybe in the missions with the Helios in the main FS2 campaign the Myrmidon wasn't present to test it out. Or perhaps what a friend said.
I have to assume by that time people had actually played some multiplayer games and probably built a few missions too.
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Well, were different versions of the multiplayer game supposed to be compatible?
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If the helios was a mistake why wasn't it in the 1.1 patch?
Probably because it didn't affect any campaign missions.
There were many issues still left in the game after 1.2 though, especially on the multiplayer side.