Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: WMCoolmon on August 18, 2008, 03:46:58 am
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7562938.stm
So, how do they keep the cheating students from cheating on the honesty tests?
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Or the courage and empathy tests for that matter.
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Did you cheat? No.
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what do they mean by cheating?
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Pssst... what's the answer to #25?
wha? oh. "Slap her in the face and tell her to calm down."
Are you sure it isn't "Tell her you think she's fat?"
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thats the obvious one. i know their are more then that :rolleyes:
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Additionally, in the 'state of nature' test, these students scored highest in likelihood of having their resources taken by the dishonest students and being sacrificed as examples to others like them.
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so is that how windows os came to be? through a dishonest bill gates cheating on his tests in school? :lol: no wonder the operating system is crap :P
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Did you cheat? No.
I loathed that, all of the fifty times they asked me... in the same course... in the same month....
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so is that how windows os came to be? through a dishonest bill gates cheating on his tests in school? :lol: no wonder the operating system is crap :P
-5 Troll.
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lol, i couldn't help it. 1 its practically a dead thread and 2 i was hoping some one would respond and give me an example of what kind of cheating they do to pass the grade, clearly its all because of peer pressure. your parents want you to do well and pay for your education and so you feel you have to live up to expectations, or your friends have done betterthen you and gloat making you jealous and so you resort to other methods like cheating, it which verity i dont know, and just watch that smug smile come off their face.
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There are as many reasons to cheat as people need there to be.
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I got 15 A's and a B over the last two years, no cheating needed to be honest, I don't think it's a question of personal morality, it's just that smart students don't need to, smart students are the ones people copy from.
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I got 15 A's and a B over the last two years, no cheating needed to be honest, I don't think it's a question of personal morality, it's just that smart students don't need to, smart students are the ones people copy from.
You could not be more wrong.
Studies show that a disturbingly large portion of the intelligent population cheats, and this is due to overachievers feeling more pressure to get good grades then to actually earn them. To them, the punishment for getting a low grade is worse then the punishment for cheating, and the likelyhood of getting caught is almost nothing. In addition, I have a friend of mine who had to go to summer school - he never cheats.
Screw the freaking studies, I see this **** go on all the goddamn time. It doesn't matter how smart you are. It doesn't matter what school you go to. Cheating is a casualty of peer pressure, just like anything else, and its more prevelent then anyone is willing to believe.
It is not a question of intelligence, it is, in fact, a question of character.
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As a mature student, my outlook is somewhat different to yours. Yes, I saw students cheating, and I can tell you as a fact that I didn't, it's a decision, not something that is forced upon you, regardless of how people try to justify it.
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I've never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, never, ever, NEVVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR cheated at tests or so. It's against my (although partially non-existant) work ethic. Then again, I need about 5 minutes for learning anything due to a IQ which makes other faint but totally pisses me off.
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It's a self-defeating act to be honest, but many people don't realise this until it's too late. I know of one person who bought their Multimedia project over the net, yes, he passed the first year just fine, of course, the next year people were wondering why the quality of his Multimedia work had dropped sharply and it all ended up coming to light. He was kicked from the course.
That's the whole thing about peer pressure, it tends to apply when you are young, and you care what other people think of you more than you care about your own self-opinion, I think once you hit your Mid 20's you suddenly start to realise that only one opinion will ever have a lasting affect on your life.
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As a mature student, my outlook is somewhat different to yours. Yes, I saw students cheating, and I can tell you as a fact that I didn't, it's a decision, not something that is forced upon you, regardless of how people try to justify it.
Thats not what I'm arguing here. You and I have that decision to not cheat, but to others its not quite as clear cut. Students cheat because other people do it. Do they have a choice? Of course they do - but bullies also have the choice of not picking on some kid just because he's different. People keep trying to justify it, and while that doesn't making any less wrong, its still prevelent, and it is not related to intelligence. People cheat because they cave in, not simply because they don't know the answer. In fact, sometimes students don't even bother to try answering a question and instead cheat simply because they can.
I do want to make it clear, however, that I never cheat and never will.
Then again, I need about 5 minutes for learning anything due to a IQ which makes other faint but totally pisses me off.
:wtf:
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Then again, I need about 5 minutes for learning anything due to a IQ which makes other faint but totally pisses me off.
But overintelligent people are often a bit dull. The real fun comes with people whose shoe size is bigger than their IQ.
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Thats not what I'm arguing here. You and I have that decision to not cheat, but to others its not quite as clear cut. Students cheat because other people do it. Do they have a choice? Of course they do - but bullies also have the choice of not picking on some kid just because he's different. People keep trying to justify it, and while that doesn't making any less wrong, its still prevelent, and it is not related to intelligence. People cheat because they cave in, not simply because they don't know the answer. In fact, sometimes students don't even bother to try answering a question and instead cheat simply because they can.
I do want to make it clear, however, that I never cheat and never will.
My biggest problem is that I have a helpful nature, if someone asks me a question, I feel compelled to do my best to answer it, I actually got asked by my lecturer to stop doing that because people were expected to figure things out for themselves, so, to a degree, I do understand what you mean, and that's where most of my experience of it comes from.
@Lobo, that's a different sort of 'fun' though ;)
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I got 15 A's and a B over the last two years, no cheating needed to be honest, I don't think it's a question of personal morality, it's just that smart students don't need to, smart students are the ones people copy from.
Yes, geniuses like us don't need to cheat. .... alltouhg I always have a few well-hidden notes just in case of brain freeze.
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Then again, I need about 5 minutes for learning anything due to a IQ which makes other faint but totally pisses me off.
But overintelligent people are often a bit dull. The real fun comes with people whose shoe size is bigger than their IQ.
Hehehe... I have EU shoe size 45, which is appearently over 10,5 in male US. Also, I'm 13 years old and 1,83 m.
Hell, I just need more muscles (not that I'm fat) and I'll be the ÜBERRRMENSCH (pronounciate the R).
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Then again, I need about 5 minutes for learning anything due to a IQ which makes other faint but totally pisses me off.
But overintelligent people are often a bit dull. The real fun comes with people whose shoe size is bigger than their IQ.
Hehehe... I have EU shoe size 45, which is appearently over 10,5 in male US. Also, I'm 13 years old and 1,83 m.
Hell, I just need more muscles (not that I'm fat) and I'll be the ÜBERRRMENSCH (pronounciate the R).
No, I really think someone just needs to beat the crap out of you in an FS2 deathmatch.
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Ah yeah, I forgot. FS2 is also an ÜBERRRMENSCH discipline.
Oh, if you mean, my last post wasn't meant to be arrogant. I know I'm growing a huge mental penis sometimes.
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To them, the punishment for getting a low grade is worse then the punishment for cheating, and the likelyhood of getting caught is almost nothing.
What is the punishment for cheating there?
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To them, the punishment for getting a low grade is worse then the punishment for cheating, and the likelyhood of getting caught is almost nothing.
What is the punishment for cheating there?
At my school, you get a 0 if you cheat. The problem is that cheating to the teachers is mostly restricted to looking over someone's shoulder, and they're not even very good at that. As far as the overachievers are concerned, they can easiely find out what questions are on the tests, or do things like have their calculators do half the chemistry problems for them (like my friend has yet to shut up about...)
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I find that the more honest people are, the more stupid/gullible they'll be. People who are smart are going to be an underachiever and never get caught. And then like many smart people, we all make choices. I choose to be honest because i really don't see the need to lie. But, this conflicts with my dark side, this means i'm honest to a point because there are some things that need to be lied about as well as stuff that needs a lid so tight it doesn't see the light of day. And of course there's going to be intelligent underachievers who are a lot more moral and proper than i am. It just depends on what the person wants to do.
In my opinion being honest to a point is a lot better than plain unbridled honesty. Plain unbridled honesty is irresponsible and always leads those stupid/gullible honest types into an ass kicking pretty fast. Plain unbridled honesty is irresponsible because the people who are honest like this don't understand the logic of "if it's so horrible, then it's needs to be heard as much as it was said...not heard or said at all". These irresponsible honest "dummies" don't realize how much they'll screw other people over by repeating the things they said that was not good to the people who have nothing to do with the situation, or to the people the things said were about.
Anyway, i don't cheat because, whatever work i put in is what grade i'll see. But, i'm the person who does help others cheat, and that if i help them cheat they are getting true studied content that will give a good grade as opposed to the other time someone helped me cheat :hopping:
Then again someone who cheats probably does just as much work the person who does their work properly. So, i see it as someone who cheats successfully and gets away with it utilized their brain power in a way that the other students haven't and probably deserves to keep what they earned. Everyone knows that cheating is not easy.
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Never cheated, had to work hard for every grade...apparently I'm brave. Its been a good day :)
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Everyone knows that cheating is not easy.
That depends.
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In highschool, I never studied, I never cheated, I just didn't care.
I'm trying to change.
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Everyone knows that cheating is not easy.
That depends.
What may seem easy to you for cheating is difficult for many. Not everyone on planet earth will spend a lot of effort in making sure they cheat good and go unnoticed. Hacking the school network to get answers or change your grades to finding and taking advantage of loopholes is completely different than falling dumbass to using the same answers to a test that a professor circulated in secret before the day to take it to catch cheaters (by making them fail because the professor circulated a leaked copy of the test with bogus answers).
The smarter people are going to spend a lot more effort at cheating. Which the more effort you exert for cheating really does make it not that easy. Easy would be not exerting that much effort at all.
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The smarter people are going to spend a lot more effort at cheating. Which the more effort you exert for cheating really does make it not that easy. Easy would be not exerting that much effort at all.
Which brings up another point. Why go to all that goddamn effort? Do they seriously just want to tweak the system? Are they ****ing stupid? I don't care how smart you are; if you put in that much effort into cheating, you're a f---ing dumbass.
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Yeah many would be a dumbass for actually doing it. But if they got away with it, then i wouldn't call them one. So if going through all that effort is almost equal to going through all the effort for studying and doing well, then why would anybody cheat?
Probably because studying is boring and cheaters don't want to do it even if it is just as much effort as cheating itself. Cheaters want to do what they want to do and if studying was equal to the amount of effort for pulling off a really heavy and good cheating scheme that totally cheated the system, then i couild totally see a cheater do that because: it's fun for them, they'll be doing what they want to do instead of studying, and they effectively found another way to pass classes.
The last thing is you want to put effort into cheating. The people who are lazy at cheating are the ones who get caught. Lazy cheaters are like, hey look i found the test and the answers to it this week on the net, lets get it out to our friends. Everyone takes the test, the cheaters all fail class because the professor totally knew which ones cheated because he leaked the test on the internet with bogus answers.
What a smart cheater would do while getting a hold of the leaked test is to ignore the answers that came with it and to take the test twice. Start studying from the leaked test, and take the official test and know that you're going to do good on it.
Right there is as much cheating that i ever do on a regular basis. If you have classes that have online exams and quizzes, the screenshot key is your friend, and resume the test at a later time. This lets you study the questions on your own time and not on the exam allotted time and if your unsure of one of your answers, then you still have all that extra time in the exam time allotment to make a change.
I put a lot of effort into cheating only because my cheating effort requires lots of study time (4 hours of extra time per exam, it was a really hard class). But i don't call myself a dumbass. I found a loophole and exploited it with true study power by viewing the exams twice which got me many A's and high B's. The simple fact that i got to look at the exam before i took the exam because of a small loophole in my classes system is not being a dumbass, it's called being clever. I totally hand an upper hand on everyone elses studying in class by being more efficient. Instead of reading chapters and covering tons of content from lectures, i just listened to lectures and studied the exam questions only, instead of everyone studying all week for one exam that i only needed to spend 4 hours of studying for.
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Uhh, I cheat all the time during the year, but when it comes to the exams I don't cheat and I get fine grades. Is this bad?
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Not if you're cheating truly does put you a step ahead of everyone elses studying.
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And that will land on you like a tonne of weight once you are employed and people suddenly realise that your skills don't match the qualifications.
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I did cheat a tiny bit in high school (mostly because I was sometimes lazy)...but in college? Nope.
There really wasn't much logic in cheating there.
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And that will land on you like a tonne of weight once you are employed and people suddenly realise that your skills don't match the qualifications.
How would this possibly catch up with me when i went to every single class, and got good grades on the exams that i studied very hard for, not to mention did every homework assignment? The good grades i got did come from my heavy commitment to my classes.
Answer is no because my skills would match my qualifications. The only thing i did was take a look at the questions before i took the exam. Hell i even answered them myself, after massive studying.
EDIT: Nevermind, just realized what you posted didn't pertain to me.
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or do things like have their calculators do half the chemistry problems for them (like my friend has yet to shut up about...)
I assume that this is some kind of "assistance plan" where they're allowed to use a calculator to help their grades, while others aren't because they're smart.
Our school system is stupid, people are pulled along from grade to grade, never failing. They have to fail 2 of 4 core subjects, 50% is a pass, and even at that, if the parents say to pass them through, they are allowed to pass.
My cousin was talking about how in Ireland they do tests at around 10-11 in the schools, and then are sorted to the appropriate grammar schools after that. That's how it should work, that way the smart people aren't weighed down by the stupid. Or Forrest Gump. Or Derek Smart. Or your mom.
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That's how it should work, that way the smart people aren't weighed down by the stupid. Or Forrest Gump. Or Derek Smart. Or your mom.
The wit of your post dazzles me. :o
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And you're fat.
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That's what she said.
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If you genuinely know the material and are just lazy, then what's bad about cheating? People who say cheating like that is wrong are forgetting that all tests and homework are are either benchmarks to see if you know it and things to help you learn it. If you already know it, what's the big deal? The unfortunate thing is, people can almost never accurately judge how well they know something. On top of that, this kind of cheating makes up a small percentage of actual cheating. The other kinds of cheating are much more problematic than this kind.
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If you genuinely know the material and are just lazy, then what's bad about cheating? People who say cheating like that is wrong are forgetting that all tests and homework are are either benchmarks to see if you know it and things to help you learn it. If you already know it, what's the big deal?
Because I worked my ass off to earn every "A" I ever received. Who are you that you think you need / deserve a free ride? School / college / life is hard. Buck up, maestro. Show some pride for God's sake.
To me, this sounds like an issue of entitlement more than anything else.
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If you cheat once your likely to do it again, because rewards are high and easy and you weren't caught the first time.
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How did the topic get to this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55874.msg1132633.html#msg1132633) point?
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How did the topic get to this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55874.msg1132633.html#msg1132633) point?
:lol:
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If you genuinely know the material and are just lazy, then what's bad about cheating? People who say cheating like that is wrong are forgetting that all tests and homework are are either benchmarks to see if you know it and things to help you learn it. If you already know it, what's the big deal?
Because I worked my ass off to earn every "A" I ever received. Who are you that you think you need / deserve a free ride? School / college / life is hard. Buck up, maestro. Show some pride for God's sake.
To me, this sounds like an issue of entitlement more than anything else.
If you have to work your ass off to learn it, then chances are you don't genuinely know the material all that well. The point of school is to learn, not to redundantly drive static, meaningless information into your mind. And doing high school level maths that pretty much everyone else does isn't something to be proud of ("Oh congratulations! You're meeting expectations! Hurrah!").
The only time I could see you even needing the 'practice' at stuff you already know is either math class or band class or PE. As for math, I figure that you're gonna be running into trouble between semesters regarding forgetting what you know, not when any sort of cheating will be going on. As for band, well, it's band. It's kinda hard to cheat at band. And PE, well, it's just like band.
How did the topic get to this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55874.msg1132633.html#msg1132633) point?
I fail to see the significance of that statement in correlation to my own.
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If you have to work your ass off to learn it, then chances are you don't genuinely know the material all that well.
:wakka::wakka::wakka:
Oh sizzle! Just wait until you get to college.
Ah, to be in high school again when I couldn't fathom needing to study...
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How did the topic get to this (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,55874.msg1132633.html#msg1132633) point?
I fail to see the significance of that statement in correlation to my own.
Yes. That is abundantly obvious.
I'll just point to Red's statement and leave it at that.
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My bad. :D I thought we were discussing high school cheating as opposed to cheating at Uni. Thanks for clarifying the insignificant misunderstanding of the parameters of the discussion in a matter that doesn't involve laughing at me and dragging it out for 6 or 7 posts. I appreciate it. :)