Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: G0DVL on September 26, 2008, 05:58:01 am
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Hello everyone.
I'm a newbie in the FS universe, and so FSOP as well. Though i heard about this game, i've not been interesed as now since MobiusDragon told me about the modding possibilities of the game. As an old fan of the Colony Wars series, I would like to try modelling this universe for this game.
Here is my first attempt, using Google Sketchup : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubZTo1AuyyY
(be careful, at 1:00, the sound is back along with a replay of CWV to show differences between the model and the Battleship in game)
The Wiki is well documented, but I feel like everyone know how things work to make a mod and i'm still confused about the explanations, the file's types, ect... so I've got a few questions :
- How can I model for FSOP ?
I understood on the Wiki that 3DSMax and Blender were common tools to use with the current converters. I used Google Sketchup because i'm new at modelling (as you can see in the video.). Is it necessary to use these programs to produce the models in the right format ? There is also (I think) other steps that I miss to add my model in game.
I would happily write an article on the wiki about this, since it'll be an experience from someone "fresh" in FSOP, without all the file system experience.
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Blender and 3DSMax are recommended because their UI is user-friendly, and they can export directly to .cob formats with the right plug-ins. The .cob format is the only format that PCS2 uses, and will convert it to the .pof format that FS2 uses.
Truespace can also export in .cob format, but I've heard that its UI is less than inviting.
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:welcome:
It's a nice first model. :)
Modding for FS roughly involves the following steps:
1) Build & texture the model (Obviously this is the part that takes the longest period of time)
2) Set the model and especially the hierarchy up ready for conversion
3) Export the ship in (typically) the DAE format if at all possible, as support for that in PCS2 is rather good now.
4) Open the model in PCS2 and save as a POF.
5) Still in PCS2, add all the appropriate data to each 'chunk' such as gunpoints, subsystems, paths, glowpoints etc.
6) Create or copy and modify a table entry for the ship, typically using a TBM (modular table).
7) Test thoroughly. :p
If you want me to expand on any particular step let me know. :)
Though you don't need to worry about them until after the conversion, textures are handled like this:
(All textures should be in the DDS format for efficiency purposes, though the DXT subformat should be correct for each texture component)
Diffuse map: ExampleTexture.dds (DXT1a unless you need an alpha channel, in which case it should be DXT5. This is the only compulsary map)
Glow map: ExampleTexture-glow.dds (DXT1a ALWAYS)
Shine map: ExampleTexture-shine.dds (DXT5, since the alpha channel controls the environment mapping level)
Normal map: ExampleTexture-normal.dds (DXT5_NM. If it was generated correctly it should appear green and gray when you view it normally)
A basic final release of a ship should consist of:
- The POF file (the model)
- All the DDS map files (the texture images in the DDS format)
- The TBM file (The table entry specifying the stats of the ship)
- Optionally the IBX & TSB cache files generated from the model in-game and stored in Freespace\mod_dir_if_applicable\data\cache.
For the modellers available:
=== Sketchup ===
Sketchup is free and very intuitive, and that makes it a good way to learn the concepts of 3d, but it gets to the point where you begin to be quite restricted by that same intuitive toolset. At that point you will need to recognise you've hit the limits of its abilities and switch to a more capable application.
Conversions from Sketchup to PCS2 readable COBs is possible, but I don't think it's easy or clean.
=== Blender ===
I use Blender because it's free and VERY powerful. It will be able to do everything and anything you could want to use it for in building ships for FS. (I even use it for animating weapon effects and cutscenes.)
The downside is that it's got a scary interface, but following any of the thousands of tutorials and realising that the real interface is easy-to-learn keyboard shortcuts will fix that and you'll find it's an immensely efficient workflow.
=== 3DS Max ===
Well it's not free, but if that's not a problem (one way or another) it's certainly a powerful application. Many people use it for ship building, and with the DAE exports you have a conversion avenue equal to that in Blender. I didn't like the interface much nor the actual modelling process, but there are plenty of online resources with which to learn it.
=== Truespace ===
Let me make one thing clear here: I am only mentioning this to tell you to never ever ever ever use it or even go near it. I could write a book on the things I loathe about truespaz - and those things run a lot deeper than 'I don't like the interface'. (To any potential TS defenders; disagree with me quietly because I will take a peverse pleasure in ripping it apart for you. Ye be warned. :p )
The above modellers (mainly Blender and 3ds Max) are clearly not all that are out there, but they're the main ones that have the ability to save convertable files and so are the ones I consider to be the most important.
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Truespace can also export in .cob format, but I've heard that its UI is less than inviting.
LIES.
Truespaces UI trumps ALL! 3DMax can go hide under a rock.
Ignore Vasudan Admirals mad ramblings. He's well knows for his unstable character. Even the HoL kicked him out for that. His ranks is a lie too.
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The binmans headz must roll. :p
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Thanks for welcoming me and for your quick replies ! I'll try reloading my Sketchup work in Blender then, texturing it and see what else I can do with the textures (I never experienced textures types of glow, shine... i must give it a try). Then i'll retry PCS2 and the tables. :)
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There are a bunch of excellent video tutorials on the blender website that you can grab to get the basics of the program. It's simple and incredibly efficient once you get to know it. :)
Edit: Oh and for PCS you will need to grab the DAE supporting version from Spicious' sig (and the DLL), and report problems in the same thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,54757.msg1140418.html#msg1140418
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The binmans headz must roll. :p
You're welecome to try. Greater individuals have tried and failed.
Must be because I have no head to roll really. I'm a pure manifestation of evil.
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Fine. :p
Do something like this:
(http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/th_HadesBig20001.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBig20001.jpg)
In truespaz without massive hairloss. :p
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Some people swear by TrueSpace, most others loathe it. Personally I'd recommend trying to learn Blender. My whole modeling career I've been using SketchUp, and now that I'm beginning to reach it's limits, it's hard to give up :blah:
Oh, and I think TrashMan just got 0wned :P
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Oh, and I think TrashMan just got 0wned :P
:wakka:
This happens alot, GODVL. The Blenderists and the Truespazists are always locked in eternal conflict. :p
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Fine. :p
Do something like this:
(http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/th_HadesBig20001.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBig20001.jpg)
In truespaz without massive hairloss. :p
its possible. with a lot of patience.
which i had 3 years ago and when i was starting to work in truespace... the only reason i switched to cinema4d was because it had a vastly more powerfull rendering system than truespace, as in general being more user-friendly than any 3d app i've run into.
ummm... i think i completely missed the point. nevermind :p
still, the point of everything is, the program doesnt matter (especially since pretty much everything can export to vrml) , the user and his experience with a program do.
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Fine. :p
Do something like this:
(http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/th_HadesBig20001.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBig20001.jpg)
In truespaz without massive hairloss. :p
Do'nt do that VA. Respect my heart condition :yes: :yes: :yes:
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peterv is a truspazist?
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Are you seriously asking??? :lol:
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Nah, just curious. I'm a Mayan. :p For now, anyway.
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peterv is a truspazist?
I thought he used MAX :wtf:
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I'm a 3dsmaxer, Mayan and periodically playing with the Poser (the best for ANI's). :)
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So he's a Maxist and a Mayan.
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But not a Marxist :lol:
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:lol:
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So he's a Maxist and a Mayan.
Autodeskian more like it.
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Hmmm. So its like Autodeskian, and an Autodeskian can either be a Maxist or Mayan or both. And then you have Blenderists and finally the Truespazists.
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So...what do you call someone who uses solidworks? :lol:
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A ... a ... Solidian?
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or how about a Xsist or pixist or milker or <fake french accent>Za'brusher</fake french accent> or lightweaver? :lol:
But not a Marxist :lol:
So much for all your highbrow Marxist ways
Just use me up and then you walk away
Boy you can’t play me that way.
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Lightweaver actually sounds pretty cool. :p
Not milker tho. :lol:
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Lightweaver actually sounds pretty cool. :p
Not milker tho. :lol:
Ya same with Sketcher.
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Sketcher doesn't sound so bad ...
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Maxonist here :p
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Fine. :p
Do something like this:
(http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/th_HadesBig20001.jpg) (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Hades/HadesBig20001.jpg)
In truespaz without massive hairloss. :p
I can, but I won't. I never liked the Hades, so I see no reason to make one.
In fact, I can probably make a similar model faster than you.
As proved by my 29857819 models from 192 games made in my time using TS. How many models you made so far? 3?
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I can, but I won't. I never liked the Hades, so I see no reason to make one.
In fact, I can probably make a similar model faster than you.
As proved by my 29857819 models from 192 games made in my time using TS. How many models you made so far? 3?
Don't get all defensive and do that whole mis-aimed lashing out thing you're beginning to do now man - this is not an issue of modelling skill but an issue of modelling applications. :)
My point all along has been that the bugs in truespace combined with the infuriatingly limited toolset results in hugely inefficient roundabout methods of solving modelling problems. The workflow is more like a rocky river rapid than anything else. I know I'm sounding awfully generic here, but I can give you many down to earth technical situations where the method you use in truespace is far too complex for what the solution actually involves in other modellers.
Remember that I'm not just dissing TS for superficial reasons. I learned truespace and blender at the same time, with more emphasis placed on truespace than blender. For my end of school major work I used truespace to create a cutscene, and doing that required me to get to know the program quite well. Green modeller as I was then, I was horrified at some of the omissions and bugs I recognised as being the logical requirement to solve issues - with no prior knowledge about similar features in other programs. Some animation examples would be a completely primitive lens flare system quite unsuitable for animations, no particle system at all (I actually bought a primitive itch plug-in to handle that and even then the results were so-so).
Other omissions can be found in the modelling tools, like the half-functional weld verts which must have certain conditions met before it will deign to work, no kind of 'join meshes' functionality beyond the unstable booleans, which are completely unsuitable in many cases, no kind of auto normal calculations, no UV auto unwrapping or smart projections, an incredibly cumbersome and slow existing UV mapping utility, etc. This list goes on and I would be happy to expand on it for anyone who is even just curious, but the point is that these are not vague little tools that only occasionally come in a little handy - they are major time and effort savers, and/or allow you to do things you couldn't feasibly do otherwise.
Anyway - let me just again emphasise that this is a debate about modelling tools and not attacks on individual skills, because I know I'm slow. I recognise that I'm far too meticulous in every aspect, and it continually pisses me off. I mean, I get things done on the whole but it's just nowhere near the amount I want to have done. This whole year I've built: the hades mesh and the in game under construction model used in the ST:R teaser, a new HTL aten, a HTL amazon drone, a full set of asteroids and 2 species debris chunks and a bunch of other varying FSU model fixes and reconversions, the gladius marauder and partway through the vanguard for Yosephs mod, all new high res subspace effects, 2 reasonably complex scenes for the port lucifer survives cutscene, finished off the HTL iceni, ulysses and the Horus, built half a new private yacht for TI and have done tons of testing for PCS2 and collada support.
I think overall I am in fact getting more done, but that just means I've put tons 'more' into each and every project. The hades for example is something like 80 000 polygons; far more detailed than anything I've built previously. What I need to do now is speed up how I do that existing 'more' without putting yet 'more' into them, because individual development time gets impractically long.
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I can, but I won't. I never liked the Hades, so I see no reason to make one.
That's not the point. This has nothing to do with the Hades specifically (it was just being used as an example).
In fact, I can probably make a similar model faster than you.
I have yet to see you make anything half as detailed as that. Feel free to prove me wrong though...
As proved by my 29857819 models from 192 games made in my time using TS. How many models you made so far? 3?
While you have certainly made more models than VA, the quality of his tends to be somewhat higher. So I guess it's a trade of quality vs quantity :P
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In fact, I can probably make a similar model faster than you.
I have yet to see you make anything half as detailed as that. Feel free to prove me wrong though...
80K Polygons? Has anyone made anything as half detailed as that?
Vasudan Admiral just made a post saying it wasn't about modelling skills but about modelling tools, I don't see the reason to follow it up with another post which is completely contrary to what he wants to focus on.
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You are forgetting about us "Rhinocerousts" or Rhino Zealot if you prefer :p
Of course my tool list comprises:
Rhinocerous 4
Deep Exploration/3D Explorer
Lithunwrap
PCS2
Paint Shop Pro 7
I do have to use Deep Exploration for my conversions then PCS2 but so far it seems to work well enough after going through the process a few times. I have to say its a 100 times easier "For ME" than using TS , plus I can actually use CAD type precision on the model itself.
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@VA
There are only 2 things that I personally find TS has lacking when making various meshes for games:
1. UM mapping thing with 1 detailed texture (for fighters for instance)
2. Mirroring and connecting.
I only use 3D Max for that. Capital ships I do in TS completely.
And I have no idea what version of TS you wee using, nor how long you've been using it, but I certnaly don't have half the problems you claim.
3D MAx is a more powerful tool, especially for animating (and sine I don't don't waste my time making animations, but rather functional in-game models), but TS is easier and faster.
That Hades model certanly is impressive, but I'm not convinced such level of detail was needed for the game. Kudos to you if you want to add that much. Maybe if I had more time I would add more detail to some of my models, but alas, I'm spread out too thin over various projects as it is (BOTF2, UFO:AI, SOTS, FS2, etc, etc..), so getting a HTL model out at all is a miracle.
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@VA
There are only 2 things that I personally find TS has lacking when making various meshes for games:
1. UM mapping thing with 1 detailed texture (for fighters for instance)
2. Mirroring and connecting.
Well right there those are two very important tools. Switching programs in order to overcome those problems is a horrible solution. I used to have to do the exact same thing with TS -> lithunwrap for the same first reason.
I only use 3D Max for that. Capital ships I do in TS completely.
And I have no idea what version of TS you wee using, nor how long you've been using it, but I certnaly don't have half the problems you claim.
Version 6 for approximately 4-5 years. These aren't bugs I'm talking about here though - these are lackings in the feature set, so you would indeed have all the same problems. Maybe if you learned TS alone then you learned to live without these features, but in that case you really don't know what you're missing!
Let's take for example the lack of a join meshes function. TS does have a (clunky) 'separate selected part from object' function, so why does it not have a tool that operates in reverse? In blender you select two objects and press ctrl+j. In 3DS Max you select two objects and press attach. In truespace you must move your objects around so they are not intersecting, select both and boolean union them, making sure it won't erase triangulation, and then select and move the verts of the object you just added back into their original position if they were at all intersecting the other object. Add to that the fact that booleans are unstable in TS. Union in this case is typically pretty safe but it's still a risk that TS will either not perform the task or simply crash if you have certain other problems in the meshes involved.
3D MAx is a more powerful tool, especially for animating (and sine I don't don't waste my time making animations, but rather functional in-game models), but TS is easier and faster.
So you don't do animations - that's fine, but you must understand that animations are typically very important for campaigns as well. Cutscenes, CBANIs, talking heads, animated texture effects, animated weapon effects etc are simply other aspects of FS2 modding that a decent modelling tool should be capable of.
That Hades model certanly is impressive, but I'm not convinced such level of detail was needed for the game. Kudos to you if you want to add that much. Maybe if I had more time I would add more detail to some of my models, but alas, I'm spread out too thin over various projects as it is (BOTF2, UFO:AI, SOTS, FS2, etc, etc..), so getting a HTL model out at all is a miracle.
That hades is a cutscene model first, in-game model second, but that unfortunately means it's a bit of a hybrid development wise. It has the complexity of the geometry seen in cutscene models but will be textured with the annoyingly meticulous methods I use for in-game models. I'm trying new techniques though
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Not trying to get into this argument but...
Do either have a symetry modifier (and i'm not talking simple instance mirroring)? [Maya doesn't seem to]
Do either lock you on a object when your in subobject selection?[Maya doesn't seem to]
Do either have a unwrap UV where you break apart an object based on it's planar angle to another?
Can you manually view/copy and edit x/y/z locations view keyboard? [absolutely required for precision work]
Does truespace have a node/stack/history, I know blender and maya do.
How good is their greebling tools, if any? [The max plugin is kinda wonky at times]
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Rhino lets me modify and match symmetry with projection.
As far as UV mapping, the 3rd party apps always seem to be the way to get nicer tools than the interfaces which usually still come in under the price for Max. The usual problems come back though, file type conversions back and forth, but I got used to it and look at it as a means of backup.
Are greebles for animation?
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Wings3D ... the only thing I don't like about it is the lack of boolean operations.
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Rhino lets me modify and match symmetry with projection.
As far as UV mapping, the 3rd party apps always seem to be the way to get nicer tools than the interfaces which usually still come in under the price for Max. The usual problems come back though, file type conversions back and forth, but I got used to it and look at it as a means of backup.
Are greebles for animation?
Greebling creates small details... sorta like this: http://web.archive.org/web/20060223004620/battletech-movie.com/images/tutorials/comments_about_greebling/isd.jpg (http://web.archive.org/web/20060223004620/battletech-movie.com/images/tutorials/comments_about_greebling/isd.jpg)
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Is that like an automated detail creation or individual items referenced in from other files or completely modeled geometry for a high poly model?
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Adding numbers:
Not trying to get into this argument but...
1) Do either have a symetry modifier (and i'm not talking simple instance mirroring)? [Maya doesn't seem to]
2) Do either lock you on a object when your in subobject selection?[Maya doesn't seem to]
3) Do either have a unwrap UV where you break apart an object based on it's planar angle to another?
4) Can you manually view/copy and edit x/y/z locations view keyboard? [absolutely required for precision work]
5) Does truespace have a node/stack/history, I know blender and maya do.
6) How good is their greebling tools, if any? [The max plugin is kinda wonky at times]
Blender:
1) Yes - the mirror modifier can operate on multiple axes at once.
-> 2) Not quite sure what you mean here - lock you on an object in what way? view? editability? other operations?
3) Yes - smart projections does exactly that and fills the UV space as efficiently as it can with good tool flexibility.
4) Yes - the N key pops up the tranform properties dialogue, or you can enter numerical values for any tranformations as you perform them.
6) Yes - blender has an included autogreeble script called 'the discombobulator' which adds 'doodads' to things with full customisability. Eg: City (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/InstantCity.jpg) and Death Star (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/InstantDeathStar.jpg).
Truespace:
1) Yes...sorta. It can mirror model edits real time, but for things like UV maps and textures you must manually click 'update'. It won't auto apply when you export models either.
3) No - no UV mapping tools at all beyond cumbersome standard transformations.
4) Yes - object properties dialogue. Has a handy little feature where you can input simple math too, but it's problematic in that if used on object groups it won't affect the positions of lights, making FS hierarchy setups rely on manual rescaling.
5) No - it has an undo that works on some things but not others (it won't for example undo if you accidentally apply a UV projection to an entire mesh). There is no stack or node editor functionality.
6) Yes...kinda - no greebling tools exist in the program, but there is a plugin that can do limited greebles. It's fairly inflexible, but it is there. (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/VA--Twisted_Infinities/Misc/AutoGreeble.jpg)
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Thanks, just asking. Maybe give the OP some ideas...
For the symmetry, in Max the symmetry modifier will create a mirror image along a defined plane. The mirrored part is part of the original mesh and by default will get smoothed alongside the original. Any changes to the orignal will occur with the mirrored copy, including trans/scale/rot. Also if you want to center the pivot point, you can center it between both parts, because it's just one big object With the mirror tool, it creates two separate objects that needs to get reattached to get the same result.
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Is that like an automated detail creation or individual items referenced in from other files or completely modeled geometry for a high poly model?
The word greeble just refers to some kind of pointless detail object that exists for the sole purpose of eyecandy. Star destroyers are excellent examples of good usage of greebles. Scooby was referring to tools or plug-ins that can automatically add tons of greebles to a surface semi-intelligently within parameters the user specifies; hence the term autogreeble. :)
And Scoob - what did you mean by 2) ?
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For example in max when your doing edit poly or select poly you can enter vertex mode by hitting 1, edge by 2, border by 3, polygon by 4, element (subobject) by 5.
Once I'm in any one of those modes, I cannot accidently select another object. Leaving the mode I can then select anything I want.
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You can do that in maya.
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You can do that in maya.
How? It's been bugging me.
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You can do that in maya.
How? It's been bugging me.
Eh, I don't know about hotkeys. But if you only want to select edges or vertices hold the right mouse button over the object and while still holding it go over whatever type of type of object you want to select. This works for all types of modes, so if you're over a nurbs curve for example it'll give you like control points, add points, that sort of thing.
I think . . . the Fkeys might be the shortcuts. I know I can hit F8 to get back to object mode. In Maya the 1-7 keys are used to display the model in different wayss (ie wireframe, shaded, textured, lighted, etcera)
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The function keys in maya toggle your top most bar:
F2 - Animation
F3 - Polygons
F4 - Surfaces
F5 - Dynamics
F6 - Rendering
F1 starts the help. Not too sure what the other function keys do tho.
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i urge you all then to check out cinema4d then.
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Are you a Cinemidian then?
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i prefer Maxonist.
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Joke. Getting old fast. :p
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if it works, dont fix it.
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You can do that in maya.
How? It's been bugging me.
Eh, I don't know about hotkeys. But if you only want to select edges or vertices hold the right mouse button over the object and while still holding it go over whatever type of type of object you want to select. This works for all types of modes, so if you're over a nurbs curve for example it'll give you like control points, add points, that sort of thing.
I think . . . the Fkeys might be the shortcuts. I know I can hit F8 to get back to object mode. In Maya the 1-7 keys are used to display the model in different wayss (ie wireframe, shaded, textured, lighted, etcera)
That I already understand, problem is I go into my selected object, select lets say vertices, and accidently select another object, then I'll have to go back reselect my object and reactive vertex mode again.
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That I already understand, problem is I go into my selected object, select lets say vertices, and accidently select another object, then I'll have to go back reselect my object and reactive vertex mode again.
Just hit Undo (Z) or (CTRL-Z if you must)
I do that all the time too.
You could also add the objects you don't want to work on to a separate layer and make that layer reference so it shows up in wireframe but can't be selected. So create a layer, select those objects and do "add selected objects" when right clicking over the layer. And then I think hit the middle box and it'll toggle to like T or R or something.
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I'm still mastering the finer points of Max, as for Truespace, it's the daddy in my eyes, for modelling i can't fault it. So simple for my FreeSpace needs. Max is going to be used (when i learn it all) for interface art and command briefings. :yes:
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I wish I could use TS better, but I'm stuck in my Rhino mentality,
(start charging ahead and forget why I was running :D)
Actually I'm just severly CAD oriented and its a subtle marriage between CAD and 3D design platforms.
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I got hold of a free version of Rhino from an old copy of PC Format years and years back. But i could never get to grips with it. Just goes to show, everybody has their own preferences and not everythings better or worse.... (except sketchup :p)
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Yeah my Etch-a-Sketch skills are really lacking :D
I have to admit though I dragged myself through learning ABACUS Aircraft Studio which was a lot tougher at times to work with. But it made transfer to the CFS environment a snap.
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I got hold of a free version of Rhino from an old copy of PC Format years and years back. But i could never get to grips with it. Just goes to show, everybody has their own preferences and not everythings better or worse.... (except sketchup :p)
I wholeheartedly disagree there. :p Sure preferences and experience plays a part in it, but the capabilities of a modeller app are measureable. If one app can bake textures and ambient occlusion, unwrap the UVs of a model, create particle systems, duplicate selected parts of a mesh within an object etc, and another one can't, then the modeller that can't is simply an inferior tool. I know how to model in both applications, so the differences are plain to see. No amount of work in truespace will give you the ability to bake textures for example.
If I were a truespace user it would have been completely impractical for me to model the HTL Aten, or any other ship with irregular curved surfaces. I remember Nuke saying that he used to have to make curved surfaces in TS by entering co-ordinates for each individual vert in a surface, which is about the absolute worst and most hair-removing method you can possibly use, and it's far from the only thing that TS makes far more difficult than it really is.
By and large TS is simply a primitive modeller\animator. It's not designed to be able to create complex technical objects like ships. If you want a weird proof of that, search in google for 'modeled in truespace', and compare the image results with the ones you get for 'modeled in blender\max\maya'. There are a few nice TS models, but the results from any of the other apps blow the TS ones out of the water. Why? The other applications are quite simply much more powerful tools.
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Even Sketchup? ;)
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I love Max from what i've seen of it, The texture baking alone is vital for my Glowmaps. It's just taking time for me to learn the finer points. Eventualluy (and i'm ashamed to say it ;)) i'll be fully subverted.........to Maxism.
The modifier list is amazing in 2009.32bit.
But i was reared on TS since V2 and it's paionfuil to let go...
*fights the urge to vocalise the stress formed through indesicion
This is just a point of view :nod: not a pro-con voice for either prog. Everyone has their favourites, that's all. ;)
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I'm pretty much stuck on maya. Tho i am learning blender.
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When yer bashing trueSpace, you should say WHICH VERSION. It's had a quite rapid accumulation of features and functions over its history. IIRC it was at 4.2 or 4.3 it added the same Lightworks render engine, that as a *plugin* for other programs cost more than trueSpace.
Now the latest version is freeware, thanks to Microsoft buying Caligari.
http://cart1.caligari.com/web/Truespacemainreg.aspx Register to get the download page for the software, manual and videos.
Seems like most of the tS bashers compare ye olde 3.2 or 4.x to much newer versions of other programs.
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I specified early on - I used version 6 for years, which was pretty similar to version 5 I'd used for years before that both in terms of (lack of) modelling tools and (lack of) stability. Version 7 I've heard even diehard TS supporters paying out, so I never bothered trying it and don't ever intend to.
In fact, with collada support in PCS2, I never will need to touch TS again. :D Though that of course won't in any way shape or form lessen my dislike of it. ;)
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3D Explorer/Deep Exploration let me avoid TS altogether as well.
I do understand if someone learned with a tool then it is a preference.
I've been using AutoCAD for design work since 1990 so my intuition with the TS interface is ruined.
Rhino made more sense and is much faster than AutoCAD for 3D modeling because it is using NURBS.
Although it did take me quite some time to get used to the right and left mouse buttons.
Max is powerful but the terminology of its menus and features eludes me quite often.
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I like Milkshape. Sure, you have to find export stuff for it. :P But it is very neatly organized and very powerful. Sadly, you have to pay for it. But, I got the latest version for $30! ^ ^ And I won't regret it. I've made great models with it for other games and now that I've learned how to use it, I'll try modeling for here to. What's great about Milkshape is that it's easy to learn if you can wrap your head around the basics, and it's got many many tools for creating models for other games like Half-life and Warcraft. :P