Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Diaspora => Topic started by: Mobius on October 02, 2008, 03:09:00 am
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Everything here is promising and damn cool. :)
I'd like to know if you are interested on adding translated strings.tbl to your Dowload list when the mod will be ready for a release. If you're using the same strings.tbl used in FS2 there shouldn't be problems.
If an Italian or Spanish(there's a French translation as well, I think...and others will follow) wants to DL Diaspora and have a fully translated interface all he needs is a link to a VP file that, once downloaded, is to be placed in the folder. After the release there could be full translations of scripts and tech descriptions as well.
What do you think about it? It'll make Diaspora a pretty "universal" mod that pays a lot of attention on its players. Obviously the Diaspora team won't be responsible for issues caused by the translations.
So far there could be:
Spanish - Alex Navarro
Italian - Mobius, 134th Barracudas
I guess there will be a Finnish translation too(giving the number of talented Finnish members of the community).
What do you think? :cool:
EDIT: 134th Barracudas now added! :)
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Translating strings.tbl into Italian and Spanish is a good idea for a HLP wide project as far as I'm concerned. That way all mods can benefit from it. I'm more than happy to include it when/if it gets made.
As for translating tstrings.tbl, I've actually been the big one pushing for BtRL to be translated in the past (even going so far as to generate a Tstrings.tbl for BtRL and changing all the missions to use it). So far that has come to nothing but I'll definitely be doing it again as it is very little effort for me (I hacked together a Java tool for it last time in a few hours. I'll have to see if I still have it).
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I'm all for this. Translations = good.
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Good to know. I'm slowing taking care of the strings.tbl, I guess it'll be ready before the release of Diaspora. :D
I also volunteer to translate al missions and tech descriptions as soon as Diaspora gets released(I don't pretend to get the files before the release, of course). I'm progressively becoming a true BSG fan and I know how to translate a BSG mod in Italian.
For example, in the Italian version "Adama" is "Adamo", battlestar is "base stellare"(which means "stellar base") and "Starbuck" is "Scorpion". I'll make the translation fit perfectly so that Italian fans(and there are many of them) will not notice differences. :)
I'm all for this. Translations = good.
Thanks. :) I'll contact Alex Navarro to tell him about this proposal.
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I guess there will be a Finnish translation too(giving the number of talented Finnish members of the community).
Actually, I seriously doubt that prospect for a couple of reasons:
Finnish people know English very well and are conditioned to at least listen to it in most TV and movies, they are all subtitled to Finnish... and we actually study it in school longer than Swedish (or Finnish, whichever happens to be the second domestic language). Games, though - if not meant for wide audience including children - are very rarely translated to Finnish, which means there is rather limited gaming (and actually computer in general) terminology in Finnish, most terms are anglicisms or loan words from English. Moreover, Finnish terms usually sound plain dumb or clumsy... So English is the expected norm that most Finnish people expect and accept in games. Also the limited vocabulary means that it would be very difficult to translate FreeSpace related things to Finnish in a way that wouldn't be completely laughable.
Besides, with the Finnish language it would be more than likely that at some point you would run out of character room on HUD or interface while struggling with overly long words... :lol:
Also, to my knowledge there hasn't been any intention to do this in past years to translate anything FreeSpace to Finnish, and there has been a lot of Finnish fans around for a long time. I'll take my hat off if someone actually manages to make a credible Finnish translation of FS2/any total conversion, but I don't really see that happening, either motive-wise or even possibility-wise. And call me old-fashioned, but we might be better off without one... "aliavaruuskäytävä" sounds more like an underpass to go under the space, rather than "subspace corridor", and although there would be much hilarity in translating a lot of the comm messages to Finnish, I think it would only have novel value for most Finnish players and then they would switch back to English version (kinda like I did with GIMP, the Finnish translation was just messing things up for me...).
Personally I think that the only motive for translating the game to Finnish would be if someone made a Star Wreck mod of TBP. That could definitely not be left in English, not at all... :drevil:
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I also volunteer to translate al missions and tech descriptions as soon as Diaspora gets released(I don't pretend to get the files before the release, of course). I'm progressively becoming a true BSG fan and I know how to translate a BSG mod in Italian.
If we decide to get a translation before the mod releases we wouldn't have to give you all the files anyway. Just a single text file. :D
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"All through the winter of '08 we had translators working, in awesome-proof conditions, to try and produce a German, Italian, version of the Diaspora. They worked on one word each for greater safety. One of them saw two words of the lines and spent several weeks in hospital. But apart from that things went pretty quickly, and we soon had the Diaspora by January, in a form which our developers couldn't understand but which the Germans, the French, the Italians and the Spanish could."
-Book of Diaspora, chapter three, verses 8-10
:lol:
Sorry, couldn't avoid it...
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will there be different keyboard mappings availible available , so that ctrl-a is ctrl-a and not ctrl-q as in the case for a azerty keybard etc;
and when in multilayer messages then i can think less ,i have to think in qwerty while typing in azerty , i have no idea how people with a dvorak keyboard cope !!!
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will there be different keyboard mappings availible available , so that ctrl-a is ctrl-a and not ctrl-q as in the case for a azerty keybard etc;
and when in multilayer messages then i can think less ,i have to think in qwerty while typing in azerty , i have no idea how people with a dvorak keyboard cope !!!
For now, FS2_Open only uses US 104-keyboard layout 8if I recall correctly). Additional layout support will only be possible after new pilot code comes into picture, and that definitely won't be in the 3.6.10 (relevant for immediate future). So no, in immediate future there's not going to be additional layouts supported... sad as it may be.
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@Herra Tohtori: Italian and Spanish internet users speak English as well. It doesn't mean someone shouldn't work a bit to make the mod even more enjoyable for them.
A translated strings.tbl for Diaspora means a translated strings.tbl for ALL mods and campaigns. With a few hours of work you create something universal for the FreeSpace community that will boost FS' popularity.
And there are long words in Italian as well, they could even be longer than their Finnish counterparts. The problems about Italian are two: 1) Long words and 2) Additional words.
"Skip Training" became "Salta l'Addestramento". I changed it into "Salta" and nothing else simply because there wasn't enough space. And this is only an example.
"Secondary friendly hits" ---> "Colpi dell'arma secondaria che hanno colpito degli alleati"(appropriate translation) ---> "Fuoco amico con arma secondaria" (effective and grammatically correct short version).
No matter of how long the proper translation should be it's always possible to find a shorter, effective and grammatically correct solution. :nod:
The translation isn't going to drain all your spare time. It's easy and fluid. Diaspora will be released in several parts so translating each part won't be a dramatic task. To be honest I thought you were available to create the Finnish version(Herra Tohtori > Lobo) :)
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I'm volunteering to translate Diaspora into polish language. FS2 was polonized so Diaspora could be also polonized. The only problem are polish sybmols like "ą", "ę", "ż", "ź" and other like those, but I could use instead of them just standard symbols.
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I'm using e'/a'/o'/u' instead of è, é, à, ò, ù without problems. I guess you can do that as well. :)
There's a fully translated Polish inferface, right? I think I saw a few screenshots somewhere. In that case, your job is halfway done! :D
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Here's polish FreeSpace shot:
(http://gry.wp.pl/g/galerie/_scr/_f/3709/3709_4_3.jpg)
You can see there polish symbols... I really don't know how CD Projekt (translation company) menaged to add those symbols into FreeSpace 2.
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Adding the correct fonts as an add on pack would be pretty trivial, I'd imagine.
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Well, that interface doesn't use a modified strings.tbl only. Polish members must have created a new interface because, for example, "Auto namierz." and "Auto szybk." are the result of changes made to the interface art and not the table.
In my translation they remain "Auto target" and "Auto speed".
I'm not thinking of making changes to the interface. Not yet. ;) Editing the strings.tbl is so far the most effective solution. :)
Adding the correct fonts as an add on pack would be pretty trivial, I'd imagine.
I completely forgot about the new fonts...anyway "Auto target" and "Auto speed" are part of the interface art, I guess, so a translation would require additional stuff. I'd exclude that for now...
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Translation is a good idea and make the game appealing even more.
But devs don't know all the languages in the world and it takes a lot of effort to translate so volunteers is a must.
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Will the translators be part of the game?
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Assuming we can find someone to translate the words that's easy. Translating the voice acting is a whole different kettle of fish.
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Err...I think voices should be and remain in English...
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It's not even that they should...it's the fact that your chances of finding enough people to do a full alternate-language dub are slim to none. :p
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Depends on BSG fans, though...if many of them would like to do it, well...
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I can translate the English version to Turkish.
But I don't how to do it. I doubt it'd be like editing a text file.
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It pretty much would be, for the most part. There's one table file that would allow you to translate all of the general interface text, and you'd be able to take care of in-mission text simply by opening each mission up in FRED and changing the relative dialogue.
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You need to extract "strings.tbl" from the root FS2 VP file and then open it with notepad to translate it.
As for the missions I think Karajorma is right, there should be a tstrings.tbl file the translators will be assigned to edit. Changing the mission files means propagating the same bugfixes several times(English version of mX fixed, Spanish version of mX fixed, Italian version of mX fixed, etc. etc.) which surely isn't the best choice.
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Well work on translating strings.tbl can be done now as we'll just be using the FS2 version. Any version translated now would also have the advantage of working with pretty much every other mod and TC for FS2_Open since I don't think any of them have ever bothered with a translation project before.
I don't think any of the translations will actually work in-game until someone makes the font required for them available but that's pretty easy if you use the fonttool program (which I happen to have a copy of here (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Misc-Downloads/Fonttool.7z)) and I believe the version for French and German (which should also be good for other languages) are available from here (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,56759.msg1148053.html#msg1148053).
Anyway this is a path I've been down several times before. Someone says that they're willing to translate the game but when it comes down to actually doing it nothing happens. Translating strings.tbl is something that can be done now. I'm even going to attach a copy to this post of the most recent version I have. If it gets translated I'll consider getting the rest done. But if no one is willing to translate a file that will make translations available for every single FS2_Open TC and mod including Diaspora I'm not going to bother wasting my time altering the missions so that they can be translated.
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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I'm even going to attach a copy to this post of the most recent version I have.
Is it any different from the regular one?
EDIT: How do I use the fonttool program?
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I don't think it's different but it stops anyone complaining about having to get it out of the VP. :p
As for how to use fonttool, I can't remember. It's a DOS program IIRC so just call it with /? and it should tell you anyway.
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Urgh, I'm not that expert with DOS...well, I guess I can use fonttool later...
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There's another important thing, though. I might not translate the part of strings.tbl about multiplayer because I can't test it. A minor error or a translation that is longer than its English counterpart(it happens in Italian) might crash the game or compromise it.
The point is that while my translation of strings.tbl might be incomplete(but efficient if you consider the necessary strings) my translation of tstrings.tbl shouldn't...
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Here's polish FreeSpace shot:
(http://gry.wp.pl/g/galerie/_scr/_f/3709/3709_4_3.jpg)
You can see there polish symbols... I really don't know how CD Projekt (translation company) menaged to add those symbols into FreeSpace 2.
:eek2:Do you or anyone have this version? If you were to give me the fonts files from this version we'd make some major progress...
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The fonts are included in the VP file Shiv. I'd appreciate it if you could also give us the strings.tbl and tstrings.tbl from that version. They really should be added to the standard FS2 version I already posted so that the game can support all 4 languages as well as any others that get added in one download.
Otherwise if Italian gets added and we ship with VPs to include it Polish will basically stop working.
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Should translations work as mods? Should the files be placed in folders used via Launcher?
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Doesn't matter at this stage. Eventually they'll probably end up in the media VPs. Especially if the work Backslash is doing pays off.
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I was refering to a translated tstrings.tbl for Diaspora...
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Why the hell would we include tstrings as a mod? Kinda goes against the whole point of having tstrings in the first place.
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I suspect he was thinking tstrings only contained one language at a time.
Here's my font WIP if you want to look at it.
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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I could tranlate into german and swiss german. Swiss german would be teh awesome, quite a surprise!
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The engine already supports German so all we'd need to do is find some Germans to translate the dialogue, mission briefs, etc.
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I could tranlate into german and swiss german. Swiss german would be teh awesome, quite a surprise!
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We probably need more than one. :) BtRL had about 1/4 of the in-mission dialogue in the whole of FS2 and was only 3 missions long. :D
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What I'm really looking for is a way to find errors in a translated strings.tbl.
The Italian version(which looks admirably, dammit...I hard believe I made it :D) crashes whenever I target something. I bet there's an error about my HUD translations but I can't get to the bottom of it. I'm more afraid, however, about eventual others errors in the future, which will be quite difficult to find...without a way to track them down(when I run FS2 nothing bad is reported, the crash occurs only when a given text is supposed to appear) I don't know how to create a stable translation.
If only FSO could report the error as a normal table error (requested "X", found "Y" in line "Z") I would really like to continue.
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Have you managed to translate everything? Once you have everything translated post it and I'll see what's needed to make it work.
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I've got to find my FS2 PL version CDs to give you my strings/tstrings and font files.
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Most things used in single player mode are translated, I think. I touched only a few lines of the multiplayer section simply because I can't check if the changes are appropriate or not.
Ex. "Play" is generic, it might refer to both a mission and a movie, but in Italian there's a need for two different words..."Gioca" for a mission and "Guarda" for a movied. I checked that and reacted accordingly. In addition the length of most translations might cause issues, that's why I haven't touched most multi lines...I'm unsure...
I would like to know if there's a debug build able to track down strings.tbl errors.
I've got to find my FS2 PL version CDs to give you my strings/tstrings and font files.
Is the Polish translation a fanmade one? Do you know if there are any hints, like troubleshooting for translation problems like the ones I currently have?
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Mobius, translate them anyway. We can fix problems with multiplayer in playtesting (assuming some Italian multiplayer pilots can be found). But a halfway done translation can't be fixed easily at all. :)
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If you agree, I'd like to release a readme file suggesting any players to send me feedback any kind of feedback. I don't expect the first released version to be the definitive one.
As far as I'm concerned everyone here can check my multiplayer translations and tell me if they're too long. :)
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Well the first release would be for FS2 not Diaspora so as far as I'm concerned post it however you like. :)
We'd just nick it and use it in Diaspora (with credit of course) when we release. :)
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Sounds fine...I'll work on it... :)
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I've got to find my FS2 PL version CDs to give you my strings/tstrings and font files.
Is the Polish translation a fanmade one? Do you know if there are any hints, like troubleshooting for translation problems like the ones I currently have?
Nope. It's official one.
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I thought the only official translations were German and French...
I know it may seem weird, but...uh...are we sure there's no official Italian translation?
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Nope, French, German and Polish are the only official ones I've ever heard of.
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Right...I wanted to be sure...
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Karajorma said that those are needed for translation. Zipped files are in the attatchement.
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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I have a fully translated Russian version with Cyrillic interface, fonts, fully translated missions and tables. ...I bought that 3 month before the official release in Irkutsk. It cost me 1 rubel. :P
I also have a full Hungarian translation with translated missions and tables. I bought that 1 year after FS2 release. I have to dig them up. Those shall be somewhere deep down in my archives.
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Wow, Meleardil! Didn't know they existed! Please let us know when you do find those. The Russian one especially would be popular with the Minbari Project group. Hungarian alphabet (as far as I understand from Wikipedia) will already work with my hybrid font, but Cyrillic will need the font*.vf files.
Thanks, shiv_pl. The tables are great. Odd, however: the font*.vf files are no different than the English ones :wtf: I wonder, perhaps they put them in a different VP than sparky? Or perhaps the Polish ones get installed directly to data\fonts ? Please check, if you have time.
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Backslash, he're probably polish fonts from my FS2 data dir. Check the attatchement, pleeze. ;)
EDIT: About tables. Instead of polish symbols you might see squares.
You might need to install polish keyboard in the control panel.
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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That's it! There's the Polish letters! Great. Thanks. :yes: Now it'll take me a few days to see if I can merge the files with my own... it may turn out to not be possible but it's worth a try. Worst case we'll just have to provide different font sets for Polish and Russian.
Anyone have French versions of the strings / tstrings table? The one karajorma posted only has English and German as far as I see.
Mobius, please send me the crashing Italian table(s). I've been doing a lot of modification to the hud code... it's still WIP but it may help me narrow down your error. It may well be not your fault but a bug in the code I'll need to fix.
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Mobius, please send me the crashing Italian table(s). I've been doing a lot of modification to the hud code... it's still WIP but it may help me narrow down your error. It may well be not your fault but a bug in the code I'll need to fix.
I've just sent it via PM. :)
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I bought this in 1999 in Irkutsk (Siberia) for the price of 1 rubel (about 20 cent at that time).
Backslash, where shall I upload these files? The Russian might need more space. You can PM me.
The Hungarian version is an exe file with a nice Hungarian installer interface. It turns the original FS2 into Hungarian.
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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Are you
Elvish Russian, Meleardil?
You can post the tables here(don't attach them, simply copy and paste the content) or better, send them via PM. :)
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I am Hungarian. I spent some time in Siberia as part of a scientific expedition.
Post them??? All the interface files and missions too? Just paste the binaries to a post, really? Wow! :P
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Send them via PM or UL them somewhere... :)
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In case it wasn't clear, all we really need are these files:
from sparky_fs2.vp
data\fonts\font01.vf
data\fonts\font02.vf
data\fonts\font03.vf
and from root_fs2.vp
data\tables\strings.tbl
data\tables\tstrings.tbl
also check the actual Freespace2 \data folder for the same files just in case. shiv_pl found them there.
And actually I'd prefer the tables sent as files, not pasted in a post... Mobius' paste worked for Italian but I suspect Cyrillic wouldn't display right on my machine in browser. After all, we need it in table form in the long run anyway...
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I uploaded both installers onto Diaspora FTP. Karajorma has access to it, just as all Diaspora members.
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Thanks! This is a jackpot! Big thanks.
The Russian Cyrillic font works great. Interesting; looks like they just replaced all the Uppercase letters.
Hmm, seems for both they went the long way and translated every single mission and table file, instead of just making / modifying tstrings.tbl .
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The Russians went that far as translating everything. There are Russian binary files and Russian interface art. :)
Did I mention that I bought it 3 month BEFORE the official release of the game?
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Very special thanks to Backslash who helped me out with my problem. I'm more motivated now... :)
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Hello Mobius! I've read the messages and some posts. Thank you for the HB. I'm very busy with exams, and i was isolated last months because them.
Hi. I present volunteer for translating to spanish. Give me a text and i'll translate it. Awaiting orders.
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Use VP View to extract strings.tbl from the root VP in your main FS folder and translate English strings into Spanish ones.
I worked as well on the Italian translation - multiplayer stuff are still bugging me. :mad:
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I have a question: is Diaspora going to use the same tips.tbl used in FS2? I'm currently translating it...
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The one I'm currently looking at is only slightly different from the original FS2 one so most of your work would be just fine.
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I am wondering if current FS2_SCP supports multibyte characters. For example: Chinese, Japanese, Korean.
Years ago I was told that it was not possible. But I was also told that UTF-8 support may be implemented sometime.
I would like to see a Chinese version if it, although I doubt how many chinese players are still there...
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Good news, people! :D
134th Barracudas, a fellow member who lives in Venice, has joined me in our effort to translate all basic strings in Italian. :)
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Ah great. Are there any Italian players other than you and DySkO? :P
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I'm surprised of the fact that you don't remember Admiral Edivad, who's in the INFA team... :p
Yeah, there are a few Italians here, but most of them are busy. I noticed Rael(AKA 134th Barracudas) almost by chance. :)
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I'm surprised of the fact that you don't remember Admiral Edivad, who's in the INFA team... :p)
He's not very active over internal :P