Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Akalabeth Angel on October 07, 2008, 02:15:55 pm
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Congressman Brad Sherman of California's 27th congressional district has now said some Congressional representatives were threatened with 'Martial Law' if they vote against the $700 billion bailout and the measure failed.
Congressman Sherman said "Many of us were told in private conversations, that if we didn't pass this bill on Monday, the sky would fall, the market would drop two or three thousand points, another couple thousand the second day, and a few members were even told that there would be Martial Law in America if we voted no."
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=gnbNm6hoBXc (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=gnbNm6hoBXc)
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ahhhhh american democracy and politics at its best
if ppl dont agree with you ,scare the **** out of them with "facts"
"weapons of mass desruction"
"market crash"
"marshal law"
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I'm so pissed about this bill, it never should have been passes, and the Dow Jones fell 800 points the day after it passed.
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All according to plan, I'm sure of it.
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All according to plan, I'm sure of it.
If the stock market crashes, and all the companies are worth nothing. What's to stop people who still have money from buying all those now-worthless (in theory) companies? Friend of mine claims that's what someone did in England after the battle of waterloo, but don't know too much about that.
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Well at that point a dollar won't be worth all that much, will it? Maybe a gallon of oil?
Or actually, does the value of a currency go up or down in a depression?
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Can go either way. Went up at the beginning of the great depression in America, went down like a freight train in Germany (course germany already had billions of debt forced upon it already when the depression hit).
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Some videos worth watching (the first in particular)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8m79f-9xyFc (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8m79f-9xyFc)
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2liMPsrNlU&NR=1 (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2liMPsrNlU&NR=1)
(this second guy's a little partisan)
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Everything you want to know about it can be summed up in 45 minutes.
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanOXoWl0kc
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTv1fo6sKmo
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qicabStQkc
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kpSbkaD4tM
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The Fed has grown so ridiculously powerful.
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It's funny watching and ha-ha-ing at all these funny things that happen in the USA. I already hear a characteristic death spiral howl.
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Everything you want to know about it can be summed up in 45 minutes.
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sanOXoWl0kc
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTv1fo6sKmo
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qicabStQkc
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kpSbkaD4tM
:eek2: :nervous: :shaking:
.... .... .... .... Wow.
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This thread feels like a conspiracy-nut circle jerk.
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Most Ron Paul supporters seem to be like that... :doubt:
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If you actually want to learn something about these issues, get a basic economics textbook instead of watching stuff on Youtube. :p
Can go either way. Went up at the beginning of the great depression in America, went down like a freight train in Germany (course germany already had billions of debt forced upon it already when the depression hit).
On its own, inflation typically decreases during a recession. As you said though, it can increase in practice, as a result of government or central bank actions in response to the situation.
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It's sickening in many ways because the market volatility is doing as much damage as possible now.
The bill passed and the same thing happens anyway so all I can say to those that voted for it is "Suckers!"
The problem is I'm sharing the ride on the Titanic Panic with them.
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I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I still think that the bill was horribly enacted and will only benefit the people who have all the money
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Which is likely the ones that created the problem....
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This thread feels like a conspiracy-nut circle jerk.
Conspiracy? What's the conspiracy? Congress is pressured and rushed to pass a bill they don't understand, the markets are dropping like a stone as a result. That's not conspiracy it's cause and effect. Though of course the bill wasn't the sole problem in the first place.
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I don't see how that bill can be qualified as a "problem" in any sense. If anything, it's a small patch for one aspect of a much larger problem. Attempting to jump-start the credit system was never meant as a panacea, nor will it solely resolve the mounting number of other issues that are sending the market into a tailspin.
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The bill, in order to be effective, needs to be more than a blank cheque with a few stipulations attached.
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Certainly not for things like 'Wooden Arrows for Children'....
I'm hearing concerns that most of the money injected into the system has already flowed overseas, since the government forgot to put a stipulation in that the money must be invested in American interests, but I don't know how much that is truth and how much it is rumour-mongering.
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one sickeningly twisted demented fraking horrid word....
Earmarking
I have had the experience of reading some of these "proposals" being pushed through.
I temped as a technical writer for a very short time in DC, quite frankly I didnt have the stomach for it.
I'm an optymist and it made me ill just how far from their "Dog and Pony Show" title they can be deviated and interpreted, then you see a few pages of a magazine full of earmarks attached to it....
I felt like a button pusher in Auschwitz
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My own feeling is that the $700 Billion should have been put to one side for helping the account holders, let the banks fall, they wanted Capitalism, let them have, in all its glory, but protect those who were unfortunate enough to have been deliberately misled by those banks.
Obviously, in practice, that's a lot harder than it sounds, but it just irks me that all these Banks are, apparently, only pro-capitalism when they can make a profit from the system, otherwise it's socialism all the way.
In many ways this sort of demonstrates that the Finance sector has the government over a barrel, the more they screw up, the more taxpayer money they get.
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Well the thing is volume when your talking about a problem of this size.
Take away time for evaluation and you've destroyed the credibility of it.
Rushed purchases always screw the investor when looking at a volume of information this large, there is no way the people involved can verify the sources.
One of the reason's I wish I had a bag over my head when it comes to news like this.
At the level of being a solitary citizen, any impact of my views or attempts to influence the outcome amount to a single strand of bacteria stopping a bullet train.
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At the level of being a solitary citizen, any impact of my views or attempts to influence the outcome amount to a single strand of bacteria stopping a bullet train.
I know that feeling...
My grandmother passed away about 4 months ago, and we are in the middle of sorting out her estate, right now we are running around like madmen trying to make sure that all her money (including the money for her recently sold house) are somewhere safe, just in case, this whole mess is playing havoc, I'm even inclined to empty my account, but right now the safest bet is just to hang on and hope the ride ends soon, but personally, I have doubts.
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You can put 700 billion pounds of neosporin on a broken leg and it still won't heal it.
As one Republican Senator put it "Why is it that we want capitalism on the way up but socialism on the way down?"
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Don't get me wrong Flipside, we're both letting emotion affect our judgement and just sharing in the lament of how foolish survival instincts can make people run like rats from a sinking ship when the fact is they were the only reason it stayed afloat in the first place.
The sun still rises tomorrow, the bills still come, I still have a job and friends to care for.
I'm not going to stop either, that is just the sheer fact of attitude being the thing that defines our progress as human beings. I'm just glad to vent the frustration so I can move on to deal with my own little end of the universe how ever small it is :D
What can I say, I might whine but I'm a cockroach, can't kill a smile even if it is out of insanity!
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I like your depiction Solatar.
The coneptual application that gets me with this whole forced/rushed bail out....
It takes 9 months to make a baby.
Doesn't matter how many corporations, men, practitioners, whatever you throw at the effort.
In 9 months you have a baby with the only people claiming fatherhood are either angling to try and capitalize on something they didn't do or people who have a conscience looking to define themselves. But in that mess you will never really know who the real father is.
After sifting through it as a witness you just live with the results of the investigation that satisfy your own means. Its sick or romantic depending on the perspective and how it is spun to the audiences perception.
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This is what's happening to the global financial situation right now.
[attachment deleted by Tolwyn]
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This is what's happening to the global financial situation right now.
I ignore it completely. :rolleyes:
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Normally, I'd agree, I've seen a few crashes over the years, and my usual response has been no response, as the adverts always say, share prices can go down as well as up, it's a fact that a lot of Stockbrokers seem to think only applies to their customers, they never expect it to happen to them personally.
Is this one different? Difficult to say, in some ways, there have been worse smacks in the face for the stock market, but this one seems to have taken out a fair number of large businesses. This may be because those industries were teetering on the edge anyway, there's been a lack of transparency in some of them for quite a while, and recent events give some hints as to why, but I do know that the only hope we have for stabilising the system is to hang on in there, I just hope that the financial sector, knowing this, don't try to take advantage of it, or they could actually tip the balance through pure greed.
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CUT
Is transparency even common in the first place? :rolleyes:
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It used to be a lot more commonplace than it is now, that's for certain, for banks to suddenly announce that they are ceasing business without any warning to their shareholders whatsoever 10-15 years ago would have been unheard of and would have caused a far stronger reaction, both publicly and from the government than it has recently. Nowadays the reaction seems to be 'Whooops, here's some more money'
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let the banks fall, they wanted Capitalism, let them have it, in all it's glory
Such a beautiful sentance I'm tempted to siggy it.
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I'm with you guys on this for sure!
My only fear is one of them holds my accounts, and my companies accounts.....
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Heh, that's always the problem, but I feel a bit like a human shield in that respect, our livelihoods are being used as leverage by the corporations.
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...the so-called "authorities" are more corrupt than we are.
:drevil:
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"Official Announcement"
The People of The United States announced today they are changing their National Emblem.
We've elected to change from the Eagle to the Condom because it more accurately reflects the Governments political stance.
A Condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while your actually being screwed....
... I know its an old one, but the literal truth in it is ill.... :D
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The People of The United States announced today they are changing their National Emblem.
We've elected to change from the Eagle to the Condom because it more accurately reflects the Governments political stance.
A Condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while your actually being screwed....
Why have I never heard this before? :lol:
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Meh... creative destruction. The weak will die off to make room for the strong. I dont understand this paranoia to maintain the status quo forever. Companies WILL die, people WILL lose money, governments will come and go.. just let things run their course without these futile attempts to stop the ever coming change.
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Yayy, lets cull the herd....
See the problem with that is, it's 10 times easier to destroy and take than it is to create something beneficial.
So your saying the worst lowest denominator personality traits in a human being are the ones that deserve to survive.
Anarchy can win easily out of sheer ignorance and little effort.
Its easier to kill than debate.
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Normally, I'd agree, I've seen a few crashes over the years, and my usual response has been no response, as the adverts always say, share prices can go down as well as up, it's a fact that a lot of Stockbrokers seem to think only applies to their customers, they never expect it to happen to them personally.
Is this one different? Difficult to say, in some ways, there have been worse smacks in the face for the stock market, but this one seems to have taken out a fair number of large businesses. This may be because those industries were teetering on the edge anyway, there's been a lack of transparency in some of them for quite a while, and recent events give some hints as to why, but I do know that the only hope we have for stabilising the system is to hang on in there, I just hope that the financial sector, knowing this, don't try to take advantage of it, or they could actually tip the balance through pure greed.
It's different for a number of reasons, one of them being the creative accounting tricks that our banks now employ. The other being that our economy has never been this over leveraged, at least not since the 20's, I'm not sure if it exceeds that level since I don't have exact figures in front of me at the moment.
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Peoples financial savings by comparison are marginally comparable to those during the great depression which has been going on for some time. That lack of distribution leaves the economy solely up to the corporations rather than the people. Since most are taking the jobs and revenue outsie of the country it leaves a huge export of the National Revenue completely out of our hands and nothing more than victims.