Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Retsof on October 12, 2008, 08:44:03 pm

Title: Ship Limit.
Post by: Retsof on October 12, 2008, 08:44:03 pm
In all the other threads on this subject they always say the same thing... use an Inferno build.  So how hard is it really to increase the ship limit?  I'm guessing it's harder than changing a couple numbers or everyone would do it...
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Solatar on October 12, 2008, 08:57:05 pm
If I understand correctly you can run into problems if you enable higher numbers of ships. That's why the standard build hasn't been raised (or it's only been raised by a little, I can't remember)
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Droid803 on October 12, 2008, 09:02:23 pm
Pilot files get messed up, as in you have to create a new pilot, but I believe that was about it.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on October 12, 2008, 09:53:11 pm
Multiplayer breaks too. 
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Hellstryker on October 13, 2008, 01:05:12 am
Ok, but I think we'd all like to know, how do you do it  :nod:
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Solatar on October 13, 2008, 01:23:37 am
Well, it's hardcoded so you'd have to figure out what to change and then compile your own build. I'm not sure how simple or complicated it is to actually code, so hopefully a coder will pop in here to help you out more.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Droid803 on October 13, 2008, 01:32:56 am
You need more ships than an INF build allows?
Is TotT really going to be that huge? *shudders*
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: BengalTiger on October 13, 2008, 06:35:14 am
No, we'll need to either delete a dozen stock ships or use an Inferno build. But since the topic's up, I'm also interested how 'hard' is the hard coded limit  :p
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: karajorma on October 13, 2008, 04:11:08 pm
It buggers up quite a few things in the pilot file. It's not just the multiplayer thing cause I added code to fix that bloody ages ago. It's in the old HEAD branch but it does exist.


But basically it boils down to this. If was really easy to increase the ship limit, why the **** wouldn't we have done it already? It's not like having to maintain separate Inferno and standard builds is particularly easy or fun.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Getter Robo G on October 13, 2008, 06:00:35 pm
So in other words ship limit increase INF builds are no longer supported...

There is no need to wait for 3.10. If we want more ship, use the old INF build? Where would you get such a .exe still available for valid Download?

If I were to use that in teh short term, but then wanted to switch later when 3.10 comes out, would anything critical have to be changed aside from trimming an overflooded ship list?

I'm just weighing options here...
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: karajorma on October 14, 2008, 02:01:06 am
I didn't say that Inferno builds weren't supported. I said that they were a pain in the arse to support. :p
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Hellstryker on October 14, 2008, 02:31:26 pm
I didn't say that Inferno builds weren't supported. I said that they were a pain in the arse to support. :p

Thinking of which, when is a 3.6.10 inf build coming out...  :(
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 14, 2008, 02:40:31 pm
I guess it'll be released with INFA, so... :)
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Snail on October 14, 2008, 02:48:56 pm
I thought there were a few 3.6.9 builds (at least) floating around...
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 14, 2008, 03:02:26 pm
Isn't the build released with INFA a 3.6.9? It's available to the public, right?
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Snail on October 14, 2008, 03:14:25 pm
I know for sure there's at least one 3.6.9 build out there, which is the one Karajorma posted to fix the  hits-left-subsystem problem.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 14, 2008, 03:26:25 pm
There must be one in the regular INFA package. It's on FSMods.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Hellstryker on October 14, 2008, 04:41:16 pm
Yes, but the new MVPs give rather odd glitches when not using a 3.6.10 build  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Droid803 on October 14, 2008, 05:40:56 pm
Yes, but the new MVPs give rather odd glitches when not using a 3.6.10 build  :rolleyes:

LIES.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Hellstryker on October 14, 2008, 06:46:18 pm
Yes, but the new MVPs give rather odd glitches when not using a 3.6.10 build  :rolleyes:
LIES.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,53066.0.html  :(
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 16, 2008, 12:27:47 pm
You're not even supposed to use the new MVPs. There are many things to fix. I switched back to 3.6.8, for example.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Droid803 on October 16, 2008, 04:53:49 pm
Well, not for me...
I've fixed all the glaring stuff manually (missing beam glows, buggy HTL Ravana), and now its working great for me.
I don't get how anyone can stand not using 3.6.10 and having disco beams.

I'll never switch to 3.6.8! NEVER! Also, the beta Mvps work fine on my 3.6.9 build...

Maybe it's like the elusive "Array out of bounds" thing for PCS2, which has only happened once, and I found a workaround for.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 17, 2008, 04:34:31 am
If you fixed the stuff why don't you UL your changes? :)
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Droid803 on October 17, 2008, 05:22:21 pm
uh...I just grabbed the fixed pof and did a table hack?
besides, 3.6.10 gamma is coming out soon, it seems.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: TrashMan on October 18, 2008, 07:25:31 am
I don't get it why doesn't just everyone switch to inferno builds. Make em standard. Lord knows a bigger ship limit is a blessing.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Snail on October 18, 2008, 07:31:15 am
I don't get it why doesn't just everyone switch to inferno builds. Make em standard. Lord knows a bigger ship limit is a blessing.
Because it's harder to make the builds. It's like saying, "Why does anyone still make ships less than 50,000 polies? More detail is like a blessing."
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 19, 2008, 06:01:49 am
It's not the same, Snail. I could care less about 50,000 polies. A boosted ship limit is a far better blessing.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: TrashMan on October 19, 2008, 06:24:55 am
I don't get it why doesn't just everyone switch to inferno builds. Make em standard. Lord knows a bigger ship limit is a blessing.
Because it's harder to make the builds. It's like saying, "Why does anyone still make ships less than 50,000 polies? More detail is like a blessing."

It's harder because you have to make two different builds, so it's extra work for the code-wizzards.

IF everyone just switched to one version, the other would be dropped.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 19, 2008, 06:46:23 am
Under a coding point of view this kind of change isn't important because the MVPs don't need it.

I wonder if the mod devs willing to get a build with a boosted limit are really going to use it. I suspect people tend to fill ships.tbl and switch to Inferno builds even if they're not needed.

Let's be honest - how can you use 130 different ship classes in a campaign? How many species are you going to use?
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: TrashMan on October 19, 2008, 07:46:48 am
Under a coding point of view this kind of change isn't important because the MVPs don't need it.

I wonder if the mod devs willing to get a build with a boosted limit are really going to use it. I suspect people tend to fill ships.tbl and switch to Inferno builds even if they're not needed.

Let's be honest - how can you use 130 different ship classes in a campaign? How many species are you going to use?



Oh, you can fill it up REAL quick, trust me.
Why do you think I've divided the next Chapter of FOW into two sub-chapters.
Granted, there's a LOT of work for once chapter, but partially because there's no way in hell I could fit all ship in there. I'm scratching the limit already and I had to remove almost all shivan ships. And it's still not enough. I had to axe a few ships that would normally be in. I had to axe a few easter eggs because of the limit too.

And for DOTA I'll have the use a INF build, because it contains all of the ships from COTS + a whole load more.
Let's be honest, there's a whole lot of good ships out there these days and the current limit just doesn't cut it anymore.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Snail on October 19, 2008, 07:48:35 am
Under a coding point of view, making Inferno builds is a pain in the ass. That's why I compared it to a 50,000 poly ship, not because it's a feature but because it's hard to make.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: TrashMan on October 19, 2008, 08:07:40 am
I can't phantom why. They already wrote the code for Inferno builds.

How can it be more pain in the ass than a regular build? Updating it - sure. But if it's the only one, then no.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: Mobius on October 19, 2008, 08:35:18 am
Oh, you can fill it up REAL quick, trust me.
Why do you think I've divided the next Chapter of FOW into two sub-chapters.
Granted, there's a LOT of work for once chapter, but partially because there's no way in hell I could fit all ship in there. I'm scratching the limit already and I had to remove almost all shivan ships. And it's still not enough. I had to axe a few ships that would normally be in. I had to axe a few easter eggs because of the limit too.

I refer to a purely pragmatic point of view - I hard believe people designers are going to use wishfully all ships used to fill the table file.

I've experienced that in Steadfast. The best thing to do is to divide the campaign in many parts, each with its own tbl and mods.
Title: Re: Ship Limit.
Post by: karajorma on October 19, 2008, 11:45:14 am
I don't get it why doesn't just everyone switch to inferno builds. Make em standard. Lord knows a bigger ship limit is a blessing.

Multiplayer is the historical main reason. The changes I made will allow IP multiplayer games. I have no idea if PXO can cope with the changes though. Given that I only changed the packet that passes data between sever and clients and not the one that passes it to PXO it does seem somewhat doubtful.