Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Arkangel on October 24, 2008, 02:52:38 am
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What would you call the leader of a battlegroup? Would that be admiral and the leader of the fleet Grand Admiral/ Commodore? And what would you call the leader of a destroyer? I was thinking commander but aren't some pilots also commanders?
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Well.. sorta depends on the rank structure of the service you are referring to. Commanding officer of fs2 style destroyer (ie. large capital ship) could quite likely be captain (assuming us/nato naval designations).
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Flag Admiral. :p
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A four star admiral is most likely in charge of each region, with lower grade admirals (vice/rear up/lower half) being in charge of the fleets and and the task forces within those fleets.
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Well, "Admiral" Aken Bosch was the former commander of the 6th fleet so I assume you could just call it "Admiral".
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Well.. dunno if its common habit elsewhere but in finnish army/navy all generals (be they brigadier, lieutenant, major, or full generals) are referred as 'general' and same goes for the admiral ranks so full, vice, rear, flotilla (finnish specialty ~ commodore elsewhere) are all referred to as 'admiral'.
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I'd expect that every fleet would have at least one destroyer with an Admiral at the helm, making them fleet leader. If there were more than 1 destroyer, then seniority would dictate leadership. If it was made up of Cruisers and Corvettes, if there were no Admirals, then I'd expect leadership would be at least Commander, and possibly Commodore.
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No no no, at least commodore. Commanders lead squadrons and play XO.
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I'd expect that every fleet would have at least one destroyer with an Admiral at the helm, making them fleet leader. If there were more than 1 destroyer, then seniority would dictate leadership. If it was made up of Cruisers and Corvettes, if there were no Admirals, then I'd expect leadership would be at least Commander, and possibly Commodore.
You do know that rank of naval captain is senior to that of commanders rank? Commander -> Captain -> Commodore/Flotilla Admiral/Rear Admiral (lower ranked) -> Rear Admiral (the rest)
In freespace it seems admirals are commanding individual ships but this probably means that for example Petrarch is not a full admiral but something tad lower ranked or then that the he commands the whole bunch of ships among which is the GTD Aquitaine. Also its kinda useful to notice that even if there would be admiral onboard the ships commanding officer is still the one in command aboard his ship.
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Maybe the civilian politicians on the Security Council control the fleets directly, but are advised by the admirals?
(ehh, stupid idea)
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Blarg naval ranks are ****e, let army take charge and the Zods and shivans won't stand a blooming chance. Dirty mugs. :nervousssss:
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It's not clear whether an Admiral is both fleet commander and direct commander of their destroyer. We know for example that Petrarch is a rear admiral, and that he commands 3rd Fleet. However it's never mentioned whether he commands the Aquitaine directly or not, and the existence of anyone else who does is also never mentioned. The practice of giving a flag-rank officer direct command of a major warship is historically very unusual, but not unheard of. On the other hand, a fleet is a permanent institution, not ad-hoc like a task force where the most senior officer present would be given command, and common sense dictates giving overall command to an officer who is not burdened by the concerns of fighting his own ship. We're also never really directly informed of whether lesser vessels have literal Captains or merely figurative ones (article of faith in most navies; the CO is The Captain, regardless of rank, when aboard ship).
I tend to believe that cruisers commanded by Lieutenant Commanders, sometimes Lieutenants for older ones or under unusual circumstances, sometimes full Commanders for more advanced models. Corvettes are commanded by Commanders, occasionally by very junior Captains. A destroyer has a Captain in direct overall command, probably another commanding the aerospace group, and perhaps even one or two more (most likely, engineering and weapons). Installations like the Arcadia, and planetside facilities, may be Captain's or Admiral's postings, depending on their importance. Admirals command fleets, systems, or regional commands.
Of course, I can't prove a word of that.
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Isn't Petrarch an Admiral and not a Rear Admiral?
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Isn't Petrarch an Admiral and not a Rear Admiral?
Petrarch is a full Admiral...
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Koth is the Rear Admiral, and he commands both the NTD Repulse and the NTF 6th fleet.
We know THAT too.
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Koth is the Rear Admiral, and he commands both the NTD Repulse and the NTF 6th fleet.
Please verify that claim...
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Koth is the Rear Admiral, and he commands both the NTD Repulse and the NTF 6th fleet.
We know THAT too.
Maybe because the NTF doesn't have a massive fleet and there's more space in the highest echelon for Rear Admirals...
EDIT: Yeah, what's this NTF 6th Fleet?!?
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EDIT: Yeah, what's this NTF 6th Fleet?!?
I'm pretty sure it's fanon.
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How can the NTF have 6 fleets? :wtf:
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How can the NTF have 6 fleets? :wtf:
Unless all of them were tiny it'd be impossible...
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NTF 6th Fleet = GTVA 6th Fleet after it's switched allegiance.
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Wasn't the 6th Fleet almost decimated during Koth's attack in Epsilon Pegasi?
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The majority of the NTF was formerly the GTVA 6th fleet, based in Polaris. :rolleyes:
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Oh right, I remember...it doesn't mean that fleet's name remained pretty much the same. GTVA's 6th Fleet could become NTF 1st/nd Fleet, otherwise the NTF would have had a 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th fleet(examples) with apparently random numbers.
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The majority of the NTF was formerly the GTVA 6th fleet, based in Polaris. :rolleyes:
My theory is that after Bosch went rogue, the loyalist members of the 6th Fleet retreated to Epsilon Pegasi (which is adjacent to Polaris). My suspicions are supported by this statement:
36 hours ago, the NTF launched a full-scale offensive in Epsilon Pegasi, taking the GTVA 6th Fleet by surprise. Commanding his forces from the NTD Repulse, Rear Admiral Koth leads the rebel advance.
I'm certain this so-called "NTF 6th Fleet" is fanon.
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If it's mentioned in FreeSpace it's canon. This is the word of god. Don't knock it or he'll lay one on you. I'm off for a meat based kebab.
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If it's mentioned in FreeSpace it's canon. This is the word of god. Don't knock it or he'll lay one on you. I'm off for a meat based kebab.
It wasn't mentioned is the bloody point.
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The fact i 'm frizunk meanzi don't care so :p you's point has no valid stance. . . Until you justify it of course, but by teh time you do i won't case anymore so save yourself the bother and move onto something else. K?
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What the **** are you on now? :P
But seriously.
Not Mentioned = Not Canon
NTF 6th Fleet = Not Mentioned
NTF 6th Fleet = Not Canon
NTF 6th Fleet = Not Mentioned = Not Canon
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As far as i can remember the NTF had a very heavy fleet makeup. They had some cruisers and corvettes but they seemed to have a LOT of destroyers. this is from the FS wiki where you see the casualties in terms of ships for the NTF.
I found it odd that the NTF was able hold off the massive industrial and military might of the GTVA at bay for so long even considering they were in defensive positions around the nodes.
After i saw the number of Hecates and Orions lost by the NTF i understood why.
the overall fleet size for the entire NTF was massive for just 3 sistems . I cand remember exactly how many there were but i think there were something like 4 destroyers per sistem at least.
On the other hand let me check it out and get back to you !
Edit: Well it seems they had at least 8 Orion class destroyers .
Also a correction is needed as per the number of cruisers availble they seemed to have a LOT of them and quite a few Cv's !
I dont know exactly how many Hecate's they had but im asuming they had at leat half as many Hecates as they had Orions. Overall considering the number of ships i would say they had a VERY big concentration of ships for just 3 sistems .
I find it odd that i should say that since i also do not consider the presence of 2 or more destroyers per sistem that much.
I find it much considering the fact they were all defecting traitors to the terran empire.....i mean GTVA :D
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It's bedtime now son. I'm all for that thin i was in favor of earlier. But i can't remember what it it was so i'm off to bed. For the record i'm on brandy whoop whoop.
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i believe they didnt have something as trivial as NTF1'st fleet or something they must of had something more fanatic as a name something that would idicate "their" way of thinking and what they were attempting to achieve.
Edit: Personaly i would of used the remainder of the NTF as cannon fodder for the shivans while i got my ships into position and ripped them to pieces. at least till the Sath's came in. Even them stack a full load of the NTF fanatics into a destroyer and send it to blow up the node. a few less fanatics to feed clothe and provide basic health care :D
Ya i know im cruel and unjust but hell they ditched the BETAC convention so why should the GTVA grant them any respect ?
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It's bedtime now son. I'm all for that thin i was in favor of earlier. But i can't remember what it it was so i'm off to bed. For the record i'm on brandy whoop whoop.
Drunkard, you're fighting for a lost cause. Unless you can prove that there was a mention of the NTF 6th Fleet, there was no NTF 6th Fleet. Absence of evidence might not be evidence of absence but absence of evidence is evidence that it's not canon.
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Huh, I go to bed and wake up to find my topic sullied by a drunk, ahh well. Wouldn't be the first time, Cheers Colonol :P
Anyway, granted that commanders of wings like Alpha and Beta are Commanders would leaders of wings such as Kappa be Lieutenant Commander? If so what would a squadmate refer to them as in a mission. Can't really imagine someone screaming 'Watch Your Back Lieutenant Commander!'
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Ah never mind the sixth fleet part...it seems the article from which I took the information now has a non-canon flag, which I swear it didn't before...oh well.
But still, Koth is a rear admiral, and commands both the attack fleet and his personal ship.
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Well it would make sense for an admiarl to have command over his own ships. Also should the situation require it an admiral or higher ranking office meaning someone that has more authority then over just one ship can at times take full command over a specified ship with the original commanding officer acting as sor of like the first officer but with a bit more power then say an XO !
Usualy an admiral is someone who commands more then one ship. Altough lesser ranking officer may be able to hold the same position the Admiral ultimately has the final word.
Also i think i read somewhere that there was at least one case of a lower ranked officer outranking a full admiral regardin overall command authority of a specified fleet or somethin.
It's like well there was this instant i believe over here where a major i think outranked most of the general chief of staff generals and admirals. Something to do with his specified function which enabled him to disregard orders from everyone except from the chief of staff and the president !
Sorry for the bad english.
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We first need to say for sure that the number of fleets isn't equal to the number of Terran systems(or Vasudan systems with considerable Terran presence). As far as I'm concerned the GTVA 6th Fleet could've been based in Polaris with several other assets in Epsilon Pegasi.
I fail to understand why the GTVA left a weakened fleet in Epsilon Pegasi for 18 months, though.
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I fail to understand why the GTVA left a weakened fleet in Epsilon Pegasi for 18 months, though.
It was likely enough to keep the NTF at bay during the smaller incursions but wasn't able to resist Admiral Koth's assault force. I'm sure it was also reinforced by other vessels (possibly from other fleets). Perhaps GTVA Command didn't place as much importance on Epsilon Pegasi as they should have.
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Yeah, that must have been a terrible tactical error.
Check the cb anis in which Cordova introduces the situation in Epsilon Pegasi and the 242nd. He said that the Alliance wasn't rushing its forces in Epsilon Pegasi as if the system is of little importance... :mad:
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From the Neo-Terran Front entry in the tech room:
Eighteen months ago, Admiral Aken Bosch, commander of the GTVA 6th Fleet, launched a violent military coup in the Polaris system.
However, I don't believe it says anywhere that Admiral Petrarch is a Rear Admiral.
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From the Neo-Terran Front entry in the tech room:
Eighteen months ago, Admiral Aken Bosch, commander of the GTVA 6th Fleet, launched a violent military coup in the Polaris system.
36 hours ago, the NTF launched a full-scale offensive in Epsilon Pegasi, taking the GTVA 6th Fleet by surprise.
(Also that makes no reference to the NTF 6th Fleet which is fanon, if you were trying to prove it was canon.)