Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mr. Vega on October 25, 2008, 10:35:35 pm
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I have a certain issue at the moment, and I was wondering if HLP might have any remotely useful opinions.
There's this girl, I've known her for a long time as a friend, we started dating this year, I'm in love with her, and she's totally in love with me, and everything is going well. Cept one problem:
I am not Jewish. She is. And a practicing one whose social circle is mostly dominated by Jews, even if she doesn't believe in the religion itself. And, as most of you probably know already, it is NOT ok for a Jew to be in a serious relationship with a non-Jew - and she, being a good Jew, believes in this tenet (to what extent I'm not really sure), regardless of her feelings for me. This all finally came to a head tonight in a conversation that was somewhat surprisingly muted and unheated, with both of us deciding to stop the discussion tonight after agreeing that it's a serious problem. I must note that I am more foolishly/hopefully optimistic than she is at the moment.
So, ye intrepid posters, I invite you all to thoughtfully and eloquently state how I am well and truly ****ed. Especially you Sandwich.
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You're well and truly screwed.
Now that that's outta the way ... Why Sandwich?
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What branch of Judaism are we talking about? Reform Judaism accepts pretty much anyone. You can be as atheist as a platypus, and as long as you follow the traditions, you're technically Jewish.
If you're talking Orthodox... that's a different matter.
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Conservative branch (kinda between orthodox and reform), she hates reform judaism.
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you can start by putting all your nazi collectibles on ebay. :D
i know i dated a half jew once, kinda intresting. and she could blow harder than any other.
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ironically the current ad on the page is "meet jewish singles today"
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I have a certain issue at the moment, and I was wondering if HLP might have any remotely useful opinions.
There's this girl, I've known her for a long time as a friend, we started dating this year, I'm in love with her, and she's totally in love with me, and everything is going well. Cept one problem:
I am not Jewish. She is. And a practicing one whose social circle is mostly dominated by Jews, even if she doesn't believe in the religion itself. And, as most of you probably know already, it is NOT ok for a Jew to be in a serious relationship with a non-Jew - and she, being a good Jew, believes in this tenet (to what extent I'm not really sure), regardless of her feelings for me. This all finally came to a head tonight in a conversation that was somewhat surprisingly muted and unheated, with both of us deciding to stop the discussion tonight after agreeing that it's a serious problem. I must note that I am more foolishly/hopefully optimistic than she is at the moment.
So, ye intrepid posters, I invite you all to thoughtfully and eloquently state how I am well and truly ****ed. Especially you Sandwich.
I hate to say it, but if she can't accept you as you are -- cliche as it is -- it's probably not going to work out, is it.
But there's always hope. Maybe she'll break from the tradition?
Best of luck, and I'm sorry things have gone this way.
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just be fortunate her family isnt catholic
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you have two options.
the option of weakness; become a jew.
the option of strength; ask her how she feels about you. if she says she loves you ask her why she wants to change something she loves. assorted plays on the love you for who you are ****. ect.
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I've seen a situation similar to this happen around me. Imagine it as your situation in an alternate universe if you will. My room mate, she's jewish, but she doesn't practice judaism, she ended up marrying some really cool german dude, and their all fine and dandy.
Your arising jewish woman problems are awkward as hell from the way you wrote them. She's in love with you, but she can't be with you because you're not jewish...so you're the forbidden fruit she delights in too much?
And, as most of you probably know already, it is NOT ok for a Jew to be in a serious relationship with a non-Jew
No, most of us don't know. How about not following this idiotic social construct either you or others have put in your head. Plenty of jewish people marry non jewish, and many jewish people themselves are not 100% jewish either.
and she, being a good Jew, believes in this tenet (to what extent I'm not really sure), regardless of her feelings for me. This all finally came to a head tonight in a conversation that was somewhat surprisingly muted and unheated, with both of us deciding to stop the discussion tonight after agreeing that it's a serious problem. I must note that I am more foolishly/hopefully optimistic than she is at the moment.
So, she put this belief in her head regardless of whether or not she believes in the religion or not. I would remain optimistic for the mean time. It sounds like there is plenty good that will keep you two together. If it were me, I would be trying my damndest to keep her from breaking up the relationship because of some ancient and archaic tenet that people don't follow any more. This tenet that jews should only be with jews is old and archaic as it arose from a much different time long long ago, and the time it arose and was designed for has much since passed (this tenet is outdated, no longer applicable, and has no place in modern times).
Do your hardest and don't give up on her. However yet again if it were me and she did break up because of the outdated tenet...I would be so pissed and never see her again (not even remain friends). It'd be extremely insulting to me to be tossed to the side of the road because of something like this.
You're not me which is fine. I'm just painting out what would probably happen for me if I were in the same situation since it is a consolation for you looking at this situation from different perspectives currently. Definitely ask her why she follows this tenet, it makes no sense for her since she already violates it, and there's not much sense in her following it anyway. What's the deal? Or will you always be the taboo fruit of hers?
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just be fortunate her family isnt catholic
Dare I ask what insanity prompted you to post this? Well, yeah. I suppose I do.
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he converted from fundie to atheist about a year ago. his family did not.
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If you really like her, just convert and pay lip service to all the religious wankery. Not only do you get the girl, make her family happy, but also hedge your bets a little more in case there is a heaven and it's Jewish. Everybody wins!
Unless they want you to snip the tip. No woman is worth that. Unless she has, like, 9 boobs. That'd be awesome.
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Stick it in her pooper
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Put a guilt trip on her.
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@ Nuke & Nuclear1 :lol:
I missed what you're after here. You want advice cos
It's over and you can't cope, or you want advice on how to keep this thing going without getting blammed from family on her side?
R&J comes to mind but poison is a bit extreme. :nervous:
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Actually, Judaism isn't against mixed relationships, in fact, they have the tenet of Patrilineal Descent, which is specificially designed to deal with children born from such unions.
The very existence of such a tenet means they must accept the existence of mixed relationships, because provisions for it are already written into their laws.
Her friends may not like it, but that is their problem, it's up to you two how much you allow that to impact your own relationship.
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he converted from fundie to atheist about a year ago. his family did not.
poor, poor lost sheep :sigh:
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I like this thread. Mainly because my room mates have some familiarity with it. My jewish friend just sort of married an aryan and they're doing great. Not to mention i'm really glad to live with them. They're the only room mates of mine who haven't left me. I'm sort of like a dog now. I'm extremely happy when either of them get home so i can greet either one and hang out. All i've really found out is that i really desire company to function at my best and making sure my friends do their best no matter what even if i need to be an asshole. This usually causes people to think i'm an extreme asshole (of course), but with the best of intentions. I really hate it when my friends go off the deep end. Then again their life is their life and i can only do so much to affect it for the best.
Just don't give up on your gf vega. She's there in your life for a reason. Either way still, if she does end up breaking up with you, it'd still be a situation in which i'd be extremely insulted. But, you are not me, which is the difference. Everyone is offering in here is offering good stuff to adhere too.
Concerning mixed relationships, reminds me of the origins of the samaritans.
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My grandmother was the daughter of German immigrants, and my grandfather was the son of Irish immigrants. They were both Catholic, and half of both families refused to show up to the wedding.
Granted you'd think society would have progressed a bit since the 50's, but they lived happily ever after. ;)
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you have two options.
the option of weakness; become a jew.
the option of strength; ask her how she feels about you. if she says she loves you ask her why she wants to change something she loves. assorted plays on the love you for who you are ****. ect.
She's not asking me to change. And what you suggest is to ask her to change. One of us is going to half to change to some extent for this to work.
And you all fail to realize just how exclusive jewish culture is and elitist jews can get, and level of social ostracism that might ensue if she were to marry a non-jew. Even if I converted, I'd be a second class citizen, and it'd make her life hell on occasion. The response of every single one of her jewish friends that she's talked to about this has been to blame her for letting our relationship last as long as it has.
And Mefustae, no worries, I'm already circumcised, so that remains the most attractive option. Now if only I could convince her I could pull it off.
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And you all fail to realize just how exclusive jewish culture is and elitist jews can get, and level of social ostracism that might ensue if she were to marry a non-jew. Even if I converted, I'd be a second class citizen, and it'd make her life hell on occasion. The response of every single one of her jewish friends that she's talked to about this has been to blame her for letting our relationship last as long as it has.
Then her friends are, to put it delicately, dickheads.
Ultimately, solving this will be up to you. There are few possible courses of action to take.
The first is to cut-and-run. Break off all ties with her. She gets to stay with her Fundamentalist family and circle of friends, and you leave with a heap of regret.
The second is to go through with the relationship, come what may, and hope for the best. Thinking logically is sometimes unhelpful in this regard, but (pardon the clichè) real love is hard to find. If what you say about her friends and family are true, it would seem to indicate that they believe the Non-Jewish to be...well, unsuitable for some reason.
The third is to do what all good pragmatists do and compromise. Talk to her, and, if possible, talk to her parents. Maybe you can work something out.
But dude, I can tell you from experience that if you love this girl and give her up you will regret it for the rest of your life. I regret not trying to salvage the only real relationship I ever had with a girl...and I'm still kicking myself for it, months after the fact.
If the people she knows judge her by who she loves, they are neither friend nor family.
It's in your hands.
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I'd by lying if I said I wasn't willing to do anything and everything to stay with her. I'm at the point where if I knew she would say yes I'd propose to her right now. Cutting and running has and will never be thought of.
And her parents don't accept me. Her mother (who is, ironically, also a converted Jew but fortunately that hasn't hurt Ashley) apparently has referred to me as her **** buddy, and her father hates me and was at one point constantly trying to suggest one Jewish boy after another to get her away from me. But they're a dysfunctional family that she intends to get the hell away from as soon as she's financially secure, so that ain't the problem. The problem is her social circle. She's not like me; she's a very social person and ostracism to any extent from a community with unreservedly wants to be a part of would be very bad for her, not to mention the economic advantages that she might lose.
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Just ask her if she really wants to be part of a circle which would be quick to judge. If anyone is as bad as you say they are, they don't deserve her presence.
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Elope.
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How old are you guys?
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36 And been in a relationship with a Glaswegian for nearly 9 years, which, when you're a Londoner, isn't a million miles from a similar situation :p
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you have two options.
the option of weakness; become a jew.
the option of strength; ask her how she feels about you. if she says she loves you ask her why she wants to change something she loves. assorted plays on the love you for who you are ****. ect.
She's not asking me to change. And what you suggest is to ask her to change. One of us is going to half to change to some extent for this to work.
And you all fail to realize just how exclusive jewish culture is and elitist jews can get, and level of social ostracism that might ensue if she were to marry a non-jew. Even if I converted, I'd be a second class citizen, and it'd make her life hell on occasion. The response of every single one of her jewish friends that she's talked to about this has been to blame her for letting our relationship last as long as it has.
And Mefustae, no worries, I'm already circumcised, so that remains the most attractive option. Now if only I could convince her I could pull it off.
Ugh. I was in a relationship like this very recently. I was going out with someone who was really torn between me and a major other aspect of his life. He took his time to make the decision, but he ultimately chose his other aspect.... Which is why I'm back to work on my mod. My advice to you is to basically let her decide. If she decides to place her Jew-life above you, then obviously she doesn't value you as much as her Jew-life, and there was nothing you could do about it. That way, no regrets. Just be there for her during the tough decision making and try to portray yourself as neutral. You can only maximize your chances to a certain point.
Good luck!
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And Mefustae, no worries, I'm already circumcised, so that remains the most attractive option. Now if only I could convince her I could pull it off.
That's an unfortunate turn of phrase! :nervous:
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And Mefustae, no worries, I'm already circumcised, so that remains the most attractive option. Now if only I could convince her I could pull it off.
That's an unfortunate turn of phrase! :nervous:
Do not go there on these boards PLEASE!!!! :doubt:
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Sorry!
/sheepish :sigh:
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Well, let's see. You have my total sympathy; I have been in a relationship like this before, and I've had a lot of counseling over the more harmful aspect of that relationship and its ending. I can't claim to say this is the right thing to do, but at least it's not the wrong thing to do.
It's absolutely her decision, and if you love her you need to come to terms with that. Let her know that she can choose who she wants in her life, and that you're okay with that. Sadly her family is NOT okay with who she chooses to have in her life, but since they believe their beliefs come from the Eternal Creator of the Universe it's unlikely that they'll ever accept you.
It really does come down to her decision: you, or them. But it's important to put the blame where it lies. The ones forcing this decision are not you, or her (she's happy with having both in her life) or even her family (since they're acting in accordance with their faith) but with their religion's policies. Again, since this is the literal Word of God there's no way to challenge it without making things worse.
Therefore, whatever choice she makes, she will be miserable because she will have to give up a significant part of her life. She will also likely channel that, consciously or unconsciously, into resentment and bitterness towards the ones she chose to stay with.
Your friend already has a strained relationship with her family. If, at this point, she is not yet fed up enough with them or devoted enough to you to have made the decision to stay with you already, I think your best option would be to let her go. If she makes the choice to stay with you now, then it will somehow be your fault that her relationship with her family was ruined; even if she doesn't believe so, her family will. It might be that this could be the last straw as far as her and her family is concerned, but if she knows that you will support her decision no matter what it is, the eventual result will be easier to cope with.
Set her free, and stay in touch. In time she will make the decision on her own terms, and it will be her decision with nobody else to make it for her. If she decides she's had enough then she can associate with as many gentiles as she likes, and maybe things will pick up between you again. If she decides to stay, then that is her decision for how she wants to live her life and there's nothing you could have done to change that.
I wish you peace and tranquility, and I think there's going to be a lot of tears in the next few weeks. I'm sorry you have to go through it but in the end, this is not something you have any control over. Give your love and support her in whatever she chooses to do, although it may break your heart.
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Sorry!
/sheepish :sigh:
I thought it was funny.
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Kaz doesn't. And you know when he gets going it'll only end in tears and bans and locks.
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Ohhhh, good point!
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Kaz doesn't. And you know when he gets going it'll only end in tears and bans and locks.
Kaz doesn't have and will never have a basic thing common in most human beings: a sense of humor.
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Kaz doesn't. And you know when he gets going it'll only end in tears and bans and locks.
I always thought it was more of a Hilarity Ensues thing, but there you go.