Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Razor on March 05, 2002, 09:36:33 am

Title: Renders
Post by: Razor on March 05, 2002, 09:36:33 am
Which programme do you expert renderers recommend for that kind of job?

I just want to know.

Thanks
Title: I wouldn't say I'm an expert but...
Post by: Corsair on March 05, 2002, 09:56:01 am
I use 3D Explorer and Photoshop 6.0. :nod: They work pretty well. :yes:
Title: Renders
Post by: Fineus on March 05, 2002, 11:36:27 am
Run a search on this topic  - it's been discussed a fair bit before :nod:
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 05, 2002, 11:37:49 am
I am a newbie to 3D modeling but it seems that these are the major programs:

3D Studio MAX 4.26 (this is what I use and am 3D stuff learning with)
Lightwave 7
trueSpace 5.1
Cinema 4D
Rhino3D
Maya 4

For 2D art, there are basically two major products:

Photoshop 6.5
Paint Shop Pro 7.02 (this is my application of choice)
Title: Renders
Post by: Razor on March 05, 2002, 02:02:39 pm
OK thanks guys. But I actually want to make pictures (like the renders by Thunder, Setekh and others) of FS ships in action. I heard that you need somehow to transfer a ship model into a certain programme and then render it, add backgrounds and stuff.

Thunder, what do you use to make your renders and how do you transfer FS ships in the programmes you use for rendering. You don't draw them do you?
Title: Renders
Post by: Pera on March 05, 2002, 02:17:46 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Razor
OK thanks guys. But I actually want to make pictures (like the renders by Thunder, Setekh and others) of FS ships in action. I heard that you need somehow to transfer a ship model into a certain programme and then render it, add backgrounds and stuff.

Thunder, what do you use to make your renders and how do you transfer FS ships in the programmes you use for rendering. You don't draw them do you?


You can convert FS2 models to truespace .cob files with the pof constructor suite, get it here: http://alliance.sourceforge.net/files/Software/AllProFS2Kit.exe

Most 3d-modelling programs can open .cob files.
Title: Renders
Post by: DragonClaw on March 05, 2002, 04:42:01 pm
You can try using TrueSpace1 (I emphasize 'try')... its free...

You can get it here: http://www.pcplus.co.uk/article.asp?id=8556
Title: Renders
Post by: Razor on March 06, 2002, 05:43:02 am
Thanks guys. :)
Title: Renders
Post by: Rampage on March 06, 2002, 07:34:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670

3D Studio MAX 4.26 (this is what I use and am 3D stuff learning with)
Lightwave 7
trueSpace 5.1
Cinema 4D
Rhino3D
Maya 4

For 2D art, there are basically two major products:

Photoshop 6.5
Paint Shop Pro 7.02 (this is my application of choice)


Okay, did you pir-8 these programs?! :eek:  You would spend more than 3000 dollars on all of these programs if you bought the latest version recently!

Pretend that I didn't say anything if you are using the trial version of these programs. :D
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 06, 2002, 08:39:33 am
LOL, I don't actually have all of them; they are just the ones I have seen other people use. I got 3DS Max and Photoshop from the IMF library (dad works there, so I can get some free stuff :D) and bought PSP for retail.
Title: Renders
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 06, 2002, 09:55:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rampage


Okay, did you pir-8 these programs?! :eek:  You would spend more than 3000 dollars on all of these programs if you bought the latest version recently!

Pretend that I didn't say anything if you are using the trial version of these programs. :D

Try 3 or 4 times that and you'll get what it would be about...:doubt:
Good thing you didn't, or, well...:headz: :snipe: :headz: :snipe: :headz: :snipe:
Title: Renders
Post by: Setekh on March 08, 2002, 06:51:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
LOL, I don't actually have all of them; they are just the ones I have seen other people use. I got 3DS Max and Photoshop from the IMF library (dad works there, so I can get some free stuff :D) and bought PSP for retail.


Good to hear... :) *phew*
Title: Renders
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 08, 2002, 09:33:45 pm
You legits.:p

And Carrara also does grandly as a renderer, though it's a fair ***** to model in (better than TS and LightWave, worse than Max, RDS, and practically anything else) and has a texturing engine completely unlike TrueSpace's.
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 09, 2002, 11:45:56 am
I have some other stuff from those sites though... ;7:D (I buy anything under $100 and try to get it in other ways if it costs more; IMHO some of those applications cost far more than they are worth but there is no competition there)
Title: Renders
Post by: an0n on March 09, 2002, 12:38:46 pm
I have the following (the listed prices are those at which I have seen the various products advertised in recent months):
3D Studio MAX r4 (dunno)
Lightwave 7 (dunno)
Cinema 4D XL6 (about £900)
Maya 4 (about £2.5k depending on package)
-----
Paint Shop Pro 7 (dunno, about $70?)
Adobe Photoshop 6 (I was blinded by all the 0's)
Macromedia Flash 5 (dunno)
Macromedia Fireworks 4 (dunno)

[ot]
This is why the computer industry is an economic nightmare. It costs the companies like 20p to make a CD (factoring in program development costs and such) and they sell them for about £800 each. And then they ***** about the pirates 'ripping them off'.

Sure, loads of people have pirate software but with products like the above it's not as if any of those people would have bought them anyway so the companies lose nothing. yet they conitnue to ***** about loss of sales. Stupid, just stupid.
[/ot]
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 09, 2002, 12:49:13 pm
Quote
This is why the computer industry is an economic nightmare. It costs the companies like 20p to make a CD (factoring in program development costs and such) and they sell them for about £800 each. And then they ***** about the pirates 'ripping them off'.

Sure, loads of people have pirate software but with products like the above it's not as if any of those people would have bought them anyway so the companies lose nothing. yet they conitnue to ***** about loss of sales. Stupid, just stupid.


That is exactly what I mean. Game developers definitely work much harder than the productivity application developers, but games cost a mere $50 as opposed to thousands of dollars for some programs. I buy games in the normal way since I think that the product is well worth the money and the developers deserve it, but for example, I am not going to pay 70 times that for 3DS max. (luckily, the IMF library has that one ;) ) The problem is that all of the competing software costs around that much, so there are no other options. Someone should release a good program for under $100 that could do all of the stuff that similar $2000 ones can. (and if the game companies can profit from selling $50 games, I am sure that this would work too :))

Quote
3D Studio MAX r4 (dunno)
Lightwave 7 (dunno)
Cinema 4D XL6 (about £900)
Maya 4 (about £2.5k depending on package)
-----
Paint Shop Pro 7 (dunno, about $70?)
Adobe Photoshop 6 (I was blinded by all the 0's)
Macromedia Flash 5 (dunno)
Macromedia Fireworks 4 (dunno)


Yeah, some of those prices are really crazy. Converted to dollars, I know that 3DS Max costs $3500, Lightwave is around $2200, Cinema 4D is $1700, and Maya is an incredible $5500. PSP is actually very good in this respect with its $70 price, which is why I bought it retail. (personally, having used Photoshop as well, I think that PSP is better even ignoring the price difference) Photoshop is some $650. Not sure about the Macromedia products, but they are probably somewhere in the $200-$500 range.
Title: Renders
Post by: an0n on March 09, 2002, 01:03:37 pm
Quote
Maya is an incredible $5500


Ha! Yeah right. The Basic version is £2.5k, the standard version is about £4k and the Professional version is like £12k. Personally I think that's ****ing ridiculous.
Title: Renders
Post by: Razor on March 09, 2002, 01:05:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n


Ha! Yeah right. The Basic version is £2.5k, the standard version is about £4k and the Professional version is like £12k. Personally I think that's ****ing ridiculous.


Watch it :drevil:

Title: Renders
Post by: an0n on March 09, 2002, 01:05:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Razor


Watch it :drevil:

 


:wtf:
Title: Renders
Post by: Setekh on March 09, 2002, 11:58:02 pm
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Ha! Yeah right. The Basic version is £2.5k, the standard version is about £4k and the Professional version is like £12k. Personally I think that's ****ing ridiculous.


I'll have to agree, there. Unfortunately, as much as any of us disagrees with the supreme crappiness of the system, we can't do anything about it here. Maybe someday if we invent some super-duper render thingy, we'll release it for 10c a pop. Everyone'd use it. :D
Title: Renders
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 10, 2002, 12:08:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh


I'll have to agree, there. Unfortunately, as much as any of us disagrees with the supreme crappiness of the system, we can't do anything about it here. Maybe someday if we invent some super-duper render thingy, we'll release it for 10c a pop. Everyone'd use it. :D

I know! Let's release a simple test proggy! Setekh, you've got a beta, right? ;)
A bit more on-topic...
Quote
This is why the computer industry is an economic nightmare. It costs the companies like 20p to make a CD (factoring in program development costs and such) and they sell them for about £800 each. And then they ***** about the pirates 'ripping them off'.

Sure, loads of people have pirate software but with products like the above it's not as if any of those people would have bought them anyway so the companies lose nothing. yet they conitnue to ***** about loss of sales. Stupid, just stupid.

:rolleyes: I believe that's called a rationalization.
For those that have both 3DS Max 4 and Lightwave 7, which has a better rendering engine/modelling capabilities, in your opinion? So far it looks like Lightwave has a superior rendering engine, but that's based on their gallery compared to Freespace's cutscenes...
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 10, 2002, 12:25:08 am
On a side note, does anyone know what Volition used to make the FS/FS2 cutscenes? Those are probably the best I have ever seen...
Title: Renders
Post by: Setekh on March 10, 2002, 12:31:58 am
As for the super-mega-ultra expensive ones like Maya, they're probably charging for the potential. I mean, if I could make a movie with My Super-Mega-Ultra Expensive Program that could make millions of dollars, I'd sell it for a lot of money too.
Title: Renders
Post by: Corsair on March 10, 2002, 12:22:58 pm
All this talk of rendering progs and prices leads to talk of piracy and warez which always leads to (http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/inferno/freak.jpg)

I sense his presence lurking nearby...:D
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 10, 2002, 12:35:31 pm
Quote
As for the super-mega-ultra expensive ones like Maya, they're probably charging for the potential. I mean, if I could make a movie with My Super-Mega-Ultra Expensive Program that could make millions of dollars, I'd sell it for a lot of money too.



Why don't they sell a version which does not give users the license to make money from their creations but does allow the material to be distributed for free? Sure, there would be people who would bypass the law and just sell their creations anyway, but that is quite easy even now with the w-word sites. (:D) Until prices for these things drop down to the prices of games (which take a lot more work and time to make), I for one will continue to get these programs through other means.
Title: Renders
Post by: JR2000Z on March 12, 2002, 06:06:54 pm
Um...is there any 3D rendering tools in the $50 range rather than TrueSpace1 (preferably something that I can get at Best Buy,Staples CompUSA...)?
Title: Renders
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 12, 2002, 07:21:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh


I'll have to agree, there. Unfortunately, as much as any of us disagrees with the supreme crappiness of the system, we can't do anything about it here. Maybe someday if we invent some super-duper render thingy, we'll release it for 10c a pop. Everyone'd use it. :D


There already is one. Lightwave.:p

Actually, mixed-media renders can go far beyond the potential even used by pros. With Carrara's lens flares and special effects, Lightwave's hypervoxels, etc. MAX's character studio plugin, and Ray Dream's modeling prowess, you can't go wrong. Except when it comes to HD space and polys.

JR: No. And "No" again.

RDS 5.0 is no longer sold and the company's bust, making it Abandonware, if not completely legit (furthermore, proof of ownership means a discount on Carrara:D ):D, but my Ray Dream/uploading comp's down and I'm sure some admin will disagree on the legitimacy of this, so... look elsewhere, but it's there.
Title: Renders
Post by: Thorn on March 12, 2002, 07:28:31 pm
You can get Maya for free now (legally).
I'll just quote it straight from the Relic BB
Quote
Dear friend,

The Maya Personal Learning Edition is now available for
download at:
www.aliaswavefront.com/freemaya.

Since we announced Maya Personal Learning Edition six
weeks ago, we have been inundated with requests by
people eagerly awaiting its release. We are
thrilled to now make our world-class 3D software
available to you for non-commercial use at no cost. The
CD will be available for order later in March.

Here are a couple of important details:

1. Maya Personal Learning Edition is available for the
following platforms:
-Windows NT, 2000 Professional, and XP
-Mac OS X
-Note: It is *NOT* available for Windows ME or other
earlier versions of Windows.

2. You may experience delays in downloading the
software. The demand for Maya Personal Learing Edition
has been huge. We have done our best to
optimize the delivery system, but if you do experience
delays, please bear with us and try again shortly.

When you sign-up for Maya Personal Learning Edition you
can also register for our web community resource center
at the same time. When you join, you'll
get FREE access to additional tutorials, discussion
forums, content exchanges, and other cool stuff like
free shaders, files, models etc. We highly encourage you
to join to further enrich your learning experience.

On behalf of everyone at Alias|Wavefront, we hope that
you enjoy your Maya Personal Learning Edition. Whether
you are new to 3D or an old pro, be prepared for a wild
and exciting ride.

--

Looks like all the major companies have realized that the best way to sell their products is to give them away free and build an installed user base.
Title: Renders
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 12, 2002, 07:45:18 pm
[looks at what Maya can do on Renderosity]

[recoils]


Er... wha? How much for the TrueSpace clone again?


Either every major user of Maya at one of the internet's largest render sites sucks at it, or something's fishy.
Title: Renders
Post by: Corsair on March 12, 2002, 08:09:29 pm
I though Maya was really good...am I wrong?
Title: Renders
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 12, 2002, 10:10:16 pm
Well, perhaps it's a good modeler- it's nearly impossible to tell on pro sites. But it renders for ****, evidently.
Title: Renders
Post by: Setekh on March 13, 2002, 04:55:40 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
There already is one. Lightwave.:p


Hello? 10c a pop? :)

CP5670; better :D
Title: Renders
Post by: Razor on March 13, 2002, 01:52:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh


Hello? 10c a pop? :)

CP5670; better :D


Which rendering promramme are you using Setekh?

Oh and one more thing, when I want to open a file in truespace, it just opens a blue colored model. What's the problem? How can I open the model like it is in Freespace?
Title: Renders
Post by: Jabu on March 13, 2002, 02:07:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Well, perhaps it's a good modeler- it's nearly impossible to tell on pro sites. But it renders for ****, evidently.


Yes, it's an incredible modeler, the rendering can't be that bad, considering it's been used to make the CGI in tons of films. Heck, even ILM uses mainly Maya.
Title: Renders
Post by: Nico on March 13, 2002, 03:53:23 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Jabu


Yes, it's an incredible modeler, the rendering can't be that bad, considering it's been used to make the CGI in tons of films. Heck, even ILM uses mainly Maya.


Nah, ILM got their own software. And yeah, it seems Maya renderer is really crap, people who use it to model stuf must probably use a 3rd party renderer.
Title: Renders
Post by: Corsair on March 13, 2002, 05:02:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Razor
Which rendering promramme are you using Setekh?

Oh and one more thing, when I want to open a file in truespace, it just opens a blue colored model. What's the problem? How can I open the model like it is in Freespace?

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION! :mad:
For the last time...
He uses a prog called SPIRIT which only runs on Linux and- go read the FAQ it tells it all!
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/faq/
Title: Renders
Post by: CP5670 on March 13, 2002, 11:23:48 pm
Someone needs to implement a really good rendering engine into Mathematica. That would make the ultimate 3D program. ;)
Title: Renders
Post by: Setekh on March 14, 2002, 05:09:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Corsair

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T ASK THAT QUESTION! :mad:
For the last time...
He uses a prog called SPIRIT which only runs on Linux and- go read the FAQ it tells it all!
http://www.3dap.com/hlp/faq/


Thanks :)

Oh, and CP, great idea. You know, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult...