Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: WS-Thunder on March 06, 2002, 08:54:54 pm
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Hey, I'm currently trying to figure out the physics on an idea I had. Lets say you have a ship that repells gravity or that even floats in space. To conserve space on the ship and to conserve on extra weight, how should I arrange the engines. You need different engines to change direction. So, instead of having three engine on the back, one for forward thrust, one for turning left, and another one for turning right, what if I had a single engine that could turn itself so that the direction of forward velocity changes and in effect, turns the ship. Would it be possible to
do this? Or would I have, to have seperate engines to change directions so that you keep moving forward while turning?
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A ship that repells gravity? :confused:
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Typo.
Repels gravity :D
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How do you repel gravity? If that were even remotely possible, it would probably collapse in on itself by trying to avoid gravity :)
Or maybe cause the destruction of any star or planet nearby. This is a strange one :)
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Originally posted by WS-Thunder
, what if I had a single engine that could turn itself so that the direction of forward velocity changes and in effect, turns the ship.
the 3 main engines on the space shuttle do this. Its called having gimbal mounted nozzles. Its a fair guess to say that most if not all modern rockets do this because short of control surfaces, gimballing your nozzles is the only way to change direction in an atmosphere.
On another note, we understand what gravity does. What we don't understand is how it does it. So we really can't say what is or isnt possible.
People used to think the earth was flat.
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Well on gravity there is a theory that a certain particle, the Higgs-Boson or the god particles as some term it , that has recently been discovered (I believe) causes gravity by creating an attrating force which binds the four forces of nature together. (these I don't remember) People think there are 1,2 or 5 of these Higgs in one atom. So if you do some special things with this Boson... you never know :)
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Originally posted by vadar_1
gravity is simply the centrifugal force generated by a large mass spinning.
You know those times when somebody says something so spectacularly wrong that you want to physically hurt them?
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I withdraw my statements, on the basis im an idiot.
Im sorry to inconvience you with my flimsy physics.
But I still stand on the fact that you cant repel gravity.
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Amen Zylon, centrifugal force is not gravity. We're not on Earth because it's a centrifuge ;)
Gravity in the Einsteinian sense is the warping of space-time from matter. Pretty simple.
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Centrifugal force would throw you away, not bring you in.
Think of a merry go round (cheesy i know, but easiest example). The faster you spin, the more you need to hold on to keep from being thrown off of it...
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
You know those times when somebody says something so spectacularly wrong that you want to physically hurt them?
yup
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Originally posted by ZylonBane
You know those times when somebody says something so spectacularly wrong that you want to physically hurt them?
I think sometimes I do hurt them :D
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Ok, I guess I should have explained this better. I am designing a ship for a game that I plan to develope in a few years when, hopefully I can start my own game designe company. I am writeing a storyline for it and when I get 3ds max, I plan to go ahead and begine modeling this ship. This ship has to be able to fly inside military instalatoins, underground tunnel systems on earth, caves, ecs. makeing precise strikes kind of like in the game Descent 3 but hopefully more realalistic and with it's own ideas, concepts, and plot behind it.
My idea for repeling gravity may sound strange but I thought it was a cool idea. The idea is that some scientists discover a new kind of crystal that when light and heat pass through it, a new kind of energy radiates off from the surface of this new crystal. Everything has a frequency as far as we know, motion, light, sound, ecs. Now imagine if they discovered also that there is a specific wavelength in gravity that this new energy repels against. The energy acts as two like magnets that you can lower the ammount of power or highten the ammount of power on. Now you could set this up inside a titanium sphere with two lasers shining through the crystal. Then the energy radiates and presses against the walls of the titanium sphere. The sphere is placed in the center of a ship so this causes the ship to be forced upwards. You just lower the frequency in the lasers to lower or highten the ammount of energy that is forcing against the titanium surface of the sphere. However, some don't believe that there is a frequency in gravity however, that doesn't mean that one couldn't be discovered in the future reference.
Another idea someone else mentioned is called an anti-mass drive that involves a charged disk that spins at extremely high speeds causeing gravity to somehow warp, therefor decreasing the mass in an object. It is something that a friend explained to me and said is currently being studied by NASA. This guy also mentioned that I could use a coil shape instead of a spinning disk that fits under the cockpit and extends into the wings and such.
Useing a fusion drive to create an anti-matter particle wouldn't work because if anti-matter colides with matter, there would be tremendouse explosion.
Useing a graviton to create a vacume that you can direct and warp time and space with wouldn't work either because while doing so, you might because you could cause problems with the known universe by doing this.
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Those ideas above may be wrong but they do interest me. As for the engine idea, I am figuring to go with the idea that a guided missile has. It has small thrusters on the sides of the ship for turning. I will probably have one on the top, the bottom, each side, under each wing, and a couple more thrusters used for slide and a couple more for the front to stop or to reverse. The idea is that the ships computers will calculate and controle the ammount of bursts the thrusters need to turn the ship in the desired direction. Perhapps this could even lead into trichording or something better! :)
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Originally posted by WS-Thunder
Those ideas above may be wrong but they do interest me. As for the engine idea, I am figuring to go with the idea that a guided missile has. It has small thrusters on the sides of the ship for turning. I will probably have one on the top, the bottom, each side, under each wing, and a couple more thrusters used for slide and a couple more for the front to stop or to reverse. The idea is that the ships computers will calculate and controle the ammount of bursts the thrusters need to turn the ship in the desired direction. Perhapps this could even lead into trichording or something better! :)
they already do that
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I was referring to the ship having the thrusters :) This is what makes it interesting. I'm trying to use real physics and theories to develope a ship :)
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so was I.
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so was I.
:D
Well on gravity there is a theory that a certain particle, the Higgs-Boson or the god particles as some term it , that has recently been discovered (I believe) causes gravity by creating an attrating force which binds the four forces of nature together. (these I don't remember) People think there are 1,2 or 5 of these Higgs in one atom. So if you do some special things with this Boson... you never know :) [/B]
Yeah, I think they are trying to find something to account for the fact that particles and atoms have masses and the so-called electroweak symmetry. Currently nobody has been able to observe it or mathematically prove its existence, but it seems to be the only thing that can account for some weird things observed.;)
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well, I don' think boson have been discovered recently, coz in Nadesico (an anime series), they use that for space travel for quite some time now :p
btw, do you mean an anti-grav? And about the first post, I think ALL ships floats in space ;)
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Everything has a frequency as far as we know, motion, light, sound, ecs. Now imagine if they discovered also that there is a specific wavelength in gravity that this new energy repels against
For some stupid reason he's right. The current (most popular) theories are that gravity is either space bending or that it is caused by Graviton particles. If the second is true this also means that gravity could/would exist in a wave form as well and it just so happens that all waves have a frequency and all frequencies can be nullified by superposition. IE you emit a frequency that is 1/2 a wavelength out of phase with the gravity waves and it'd cancel them out. ALhtough I think the opposing directions (ie one towards the ship and one away) would create a standing gravitational wave and I'm not sure how that would affect matter interacting with them......****! Come to think of it there are all sorts of really complicated and intertangling forces and interactions that would be taking place and quite frankly I've just realised that to fully explain them all is beyond me and delves into the realms of extreme scientific theory.
To summarise: WS-Thunder is either really stupid and lucked onto an interesting possibility OR he's really clever and crap at explaining himself.
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Science aside, you could try for the engine approach similar to SW used on Boba Fett's ship.
The two side platforms are basically anti-grav generators. When the ship gets high enough to engage in flight, motors rotate the rest of the ship around so the main engines can be used.
The cockpit inside actually rotates to match the current 'direction' the ship is heading. This way he's always relatively standing/sitting and not laying down on his back.
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May the hyperbolic ratios solve all your problems.
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bah, hyperbolas are boring; I like hypocycloids, foliums and power towers better...:D
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wouldnt the thrust generated by an anti-grav drive be directly proportional to the strength of the gravitational feild of the object its near? if so , antigrav engines are useless in deep space. and what happens to u when u encounter a black hole? u should get sucked in right, but then again that shouldnt happen.
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Originally posted by RoachKoach
wouldnt the thrust generated by an anti-grav drive be directly proportional to the strength of the gravitational feild of the object its near? if so , antigrav engines are useless in deep space. and what happens to u when u encounter a black hole? u should get sucked in right, but then again that shouldnt happen.
mmh, no, the anitiG drive should just generate a G point near the ship, pulling it right there. the point would move somehow, creating a constant motion for the ship.
If you encounter a black hole, you die, so I don't see the point :p
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ok, now tell me why ships slow down in freespace
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ie, when u afterburn, and say u reach 75m/s, why does ur velocity drop down to say 50m/s again when ur burner is over, and in FS, what r u burning as afterburner that is limited yet replenishable
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Originally posted by RoachKoach
ie, when u afterburn, and say u reach 75m/s, why does ur velocity drop down to say 50m/s again when ur burner is over, and in FS, what r u burning as afterburner that is limited yet replenishable
coz to my knowledge, FS2 is an arcade game?
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yeah, the FS2 physics are not very realistic. It might be possible to add in some of the stuff by fooling around with the table files though.
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Originally posted by CP5670
yeah, the FS2 physics are not very realistic. It might be possible to add in some of the stuff by fooling around with the table files though.
yes, you can't prevent ships from slowing down, but it makes things hard to stop the ship :p
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bah.....excuses
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Originally posted by an0n
To summarise: WS-Thunder is either really stupid and lucked onto an interesting possibility OR he's really clever and crap at explaining himself.
I think it's a little of bothe ;)
1. Look guys, I'm an 18 year old homeschool student who hasn't even taken physics yet but I plan to next year. I am trying to mix sci-fi with science and mathmatics in hopes to create something ineteresting. Just because someone hasn't taken physics yet, doesn't make them stupid.
2. I am currently takeing Geometry, Biology, and Computer Applications 1. I am only takeing Computer Applications, because it is required by the state in order to get into a webpage design class. I happen to be one of the top students in these classes.
3. I have what some would call a creative gene. The things I am most interested in involves creating things. That is why I have selected the career I have. It gives me an opportunity to create a video game or possibly, key elements of a video game. I understand table files and how almost every part of a video game works and what it does.
"wouldnt the thrust generated by an anti-grav drive be directly proportional to the strength of the gravitational feild of the object its near? if so , antigrav engines are useless in deep space. and what happens to u when u encounter a black hole? u should get sucked in right, but then again that shouldnt happen."
Right, they would be useless in deep space, however, that's why we have the feature of turning it off. :P This ship isn't an FS2 style ship. It is a Descent 3 or Forsaken style ship, done in a more realalistic way.
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There's an insane Russian who thinks he has invented a Gravity Generator, but he's refusing to let anyone see it in action. He says it can create gravity - resulting in the ability to knock things over at distances of over a kilometer. It's something to do with superconducting discs spinning very fast. The Higgs' Boson hasn't yet been discovered.
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I've noticed a few of you guys don't like 'stupid' people. Making them feel as stupid as possible as quickly as possible is always the best course of action when you run into these guys. It also gives you this cool feeling of superiority as you look down at the moron who asked the question or made the poorly researched suggestion.
...or you could try to educate them in a civil manner so they don't fall victim of the real idiots who like to feel superior by blasting people who don't have all the facts.
Educate, don't berate.
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I bet they (those who don't like stupid people) all come from the VBB :p gotta educate those who thinks they are educated i guess :D
:thepimp:
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Thunder in sci-fi the best thing is not to explain how things work. If it's an artificial gravity generator powered by a fusion reactor. End it there, don't try to explain what principle it works on or how the fusion reactor works.
How does subspace work? Very well thank you :)
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LOL@Ace.
I'm not necessarily stupid. I'm just trying to learn about this subject. Now, I was just thinking that being able to explain a science fiction ship would be an interesting approach and an approach that hasn't been taken before. I figured that if I did this, I could figure out how to do the physics on the ship and how to give it some pretty eye candy. I was thinking that an interesting approach would be to set it up so that, I had say, thrusters on each angle of the ship that fired at just the right time and fired just the right ammount to turn you or rotate you in the desired direction. I wanted to find an approach or a theory that would best suit that. However, I have no idea where to put the coil, and if it was inside the ship, would it still effect the outside? I guess I'll have to ask from my source hehe:) I still find this an interesting subject and I am still looking for my approach.
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Hey, that russian scientist must have been part of this science team that thought they invented one :P
http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enterprisemission.com%2Fantigrav.html
:D
By the way, thanks Maeglamor. Someone needed to say something about it! :)
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Well if you're honestly making a game, PM me on some of the details on the game engine, sounds interesting.
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Originally posted by Maeglamor
I've noticed a few of you guys don't like 'stupid' people. Making them feel as stupid as possible as quickly as possible is always the best course of action when you run into these guys. It also gives you this cool feeling of superiority as you look down at the moron who asked the question or made the poorly researched suggestion.
...or you could try to educate them in a civil manner so they don't fall victim of the real idiots who like to feel superior by blasting people who don't have all the facts.
Educate, don't berate.
He said it beautifully. :) The idea here is positive reinforcement, eh? It works, you know. ;)
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Yea, I completely agree with Maeglamor there. Some people over the VBB, whose names I won't mention, really need to understand that.
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Originally posted by WS-Thunder
Hey, that russian scientist must have been part of this science team that thought they invented one :P
http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.enterprisemission.com%2Fantigrav.html
:D
By the way, thanks Maeglamor. Someone needed to say something about it! :)
Yep, that's him. I recognise the name 'Dr Eugene Podkletnov'.
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Originally posted by venom2506
yes, you can't prevent ships from slowing down, but it makes things hard to stop the ship :p
No : just search one of your squadmate, or a cruiser or another ship, and go straight on it :D
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Originally posted by Setekh
He said it beautifully. :) The idea here is positive reinforcement, eh? It works, you know. ;)
But that takes all the fun out of life :( :D
Seriously though, you're right and that's why the VBB is so full of flame wars. Because people won't help, they'll just say "you're so stupid cuz you don't know that!" Which is why the VBB sux.
I still don't understand this whole thing about how the ship repels gravity though...