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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Titan on November 23, 2008, 06:38:17 pm

Title: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Titan on November 23, 2008, 06:38:17 pm
Just i little idea i had today, looking into a proof of concept.

Basically, it's a mission, with 'sub-missions'. closest  you'll get to a free-roamer.

Say, you start a 'base camp'. this works best in a nebula. There an AWACS (On-the-spot command, gives you the little quests) Some freighters (supplies for the operation) A cruiser or two (defend the spot) And several fighter wings (Guards and emergency response). More friendlies would become available as the mission goes. Support ships would be able to repair 100%, and Alpha wing would be guardianed (so you're not alone).

There's a long end goal, but you would be left to your own devices as to how you reach it. The AWACS would give you 'pointers' (IE, "theres a ship, Alpha, engage at your discretion", and that would trigger a sidequest, which would satisfy one of the requirements for the ending boss battle, with a destroyer or something.... I just beat the Forest temple in Ocarina of time, so sue me) and other stuff. The possibilities are endless.

I know, it's VERY labor intensive, but it looks good on paper...
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Galemp on November 23, 2008, 09:17:31 pm
It would look good on paper. Could you plot it out, as a flowchart or something? That would be a decent start.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: eliex on November 23, 2008, 10:38:36 pm
It looks like quite an interesting concept.  :)
Still, do you think that the engine will be able to handle it though?

Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Molybdenum on November 24, 2008, 07:43:46 am
I understand that you don't men making everything in one mission file as that would kill the ship limit for sure.  :p

I think it has already been discussed and my idea would be to make a heavily branching campaign with missions changing during jumps. Say jumping while within a node takes you a mission set next to the other side of the node. The problem would be inter-system jumps. An option to choose your destination would have to be modded in(best way i could think of is using training keys). We'd best start small with a really simple mission with 2 accessible areas to see how it works out. IIRC it might even be possible to FRED in docking with a ship and changing  your loadout a la Aquanox. Even better if 3.6.10 supports variable loadouts then sidequests would give you access to gear.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: kalnaren on November 24, 2008, 10:22:18 am
I understand that you don't men making everything in one mission file as that would kill the ship limit for sure.  :p

I think it has already been discussed and my idea would be to make a heavily branching campaign with missions changing during jumps. Say jumping while within a node takes you a mission set next to the other side of the node. The problem would be inter-system jumps. An option to choose your destination would have to be modded in(best way i could think of is using training keys). We'd best start small with a really simple mission with 2 accessible areas to see how it works out. IIRC it might even be possible to FRED in docking with a ship and changing  your loadout a la Aquanox. Even better if 3.6.10 supports variable loadouts then sidequests would give you access to gear.

I've done inter-system jumps, with 2 completely separate areas to jump between within a single mission. The result was cool and I was going to use it in my campaign, but IMO the amount of FREDing it took to set it up and execute (having to stealth/unstealth/hide/unhide ships in different areas) wasn't really worth it, at least for me.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: karajorma on November 26, 2008, 05:00:58 pm
I understand that you don't men making everything in one mission file as that would kill the ship limit for sure.  :p

The ship limit is 400 in 3.6.10 which should be more than enough for this. :)
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: dragonsniper on November 26, 2008, 05:06:27 pm
400 is a lot of ships.  :nod:
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Titan on November 27, 2008, 09:00:41 am
and then if you count that waves only count for as many ships that are in the first wave (erm, if theres 4 ships per wave, and theres 20 waves, it's still only 4 ships)
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Black Wolf on November 27, 2008, 09:45:41 am
I dunno. It just seems, I dunno, inherently true that free roaming would be better served with campaign persistant variables and branching missions, if only because the task of bughunting a mission that big and complex would be monumental.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Vidmaster on November 28, 2008, 06:00:36 am
remember to impliment some kind of checkpoint system  :lol:
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Goober5000 on November 30, 2008, 05:43:30 pm
You know, I think FRED is Turing-complete. :D
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: dragonsniper on December 12, 2008, 06:13:40 pm
the task of bughunting a mission that big and complex would be monumental.
It is. :nod:
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Droid803 on December 12, 2008, 06:26:34 pm
You're trying it? :P
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: dragonsniper on December 12, 2008, 06:33:13 pm
Yep.  :nod:
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Snail on December 12, 2008, 07:18:07 pm
I won't waste my time wishing you luck.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: dragonsniper on December 12, 2008, 07:18:43 pm
Thanks :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Snail on December 12, 2008, 09:52:43 pm
Thanks :rolleyes:
Well, not that I'm trying to discourage you, but, well I think it's impossible.

If it does happen and it's good I'll hang myself for ya.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: karajorma on December 13, 2008, 03:55:21 am
It's not at all impossible, merely difficult. I'm pretty sure I could do it but I'm far too swamped to try.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: dragonsniper on December 13, 2008, 09:21:25 am
Thanks :rolleyes:
Well, not that I'm trying to discourage you, but, well I think it's impossible.

If it does happen and it's good I'll hang myself for ya.
Nothing's impossible, but yes, it's not easy. It looks good on paper, but it's not easy at all to accomplish :).
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Aquilonius on March 18, 2009, 01:32:17 am
This is, of course, just the opinion of a FRED noob that is only just starting out (and I'm sure someone has already covered this idea here), but why couldn't this be done by using several 'jump nodes' leading to different objectives? They could be made conditional, so that you couldn't use certain nodes until others (in or out of order. by the individual player's choice) had been completed.

The base could be, say, a decommed destroyer (a la that Orion in Transcend in the asteroid field, or the Typhon with the docking ring in Derelict) or some such. Docking with it could be your resupply/repair/choose a different ship and loadout point.

I'm sure someone else has already thought of these, of course, but they seemed like ideas worth voicing anyway. I certainly don't envy the sheer amount of SEXP scripting and debugging the designer has to go through for all of that...makes my head hurt just thinking of it.

But it does have a lot of potential. If anyone does come out with a campaign in this vein, I'd be happy to playtest it.
Title: Re: Idea: Campaign in one mission?
Post by: Goober5000 on March 18, 2009, 11:11:24 am
This is, of course, just the opinion of a FRED noob that is only just starting out (and I'm sure someone has already covered this idea here), but why couldn't this be done by using several 'jump nodes' leading to different objectives? They could be made conditional, so that you couldn't use certain nodes until others (in or out of order. by the individual player's choice) had been completed.

The base could be, say, a decommed destroyer (a la that Orion in Transcend in the asteroid field, or the Typhon with the docking ring in Derelict) or some such. Docking with it could be your resupply/repair/choose a different ship and loadout point.

I'm sure someone else has already thought of these, of course, but they seemed like ideas worth voicing anyway. I certainly don't envy the sheer amount of SEXP scripting and debugging the designer has to go through for all of that...makes my head hurt just thinking of it.

But it does have a lot of potential. If anyone does come out with a campaign in this vein, I'd be happy to playtest it.
I did exactly this a few years ago as a proof-of-concept:
http://staff.hard-light.net/goober5000/downloads/freespacelancer.zip

So far I think there have only been two attempts (Mercenaries and BHX) to turn this sort of concept into a full-fledged campaign, but neither of them were ever completed.