Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 03:35:47 pm

Title: Modelling
Post by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 03:35:47 pm
Could some helpful person give me a suggestion for modelling software? and (if you think it may be helpful) give some basic instructions on how to use this software efficiently,
I have found modelling to be extremely difficult in the past and as there seem to be many more understanding people than me for this topic, I hope that people will give only useful advice
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Hellstryker on December 04, 2008, 03:40:20 pm
Sketchup, Blender, and 3ds max are all very good. Sketchup is good for beginers, but limits you more than blender or 3ds max. Blender has an extremely confusing GUI but is controlled using mainly keyboard shortcuts. 3ds Max is probably out of the question unless you want to pirate it, since it costs obscene amounts of money.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 03:55:56 pm
Thanks for the info, but where would I obtain any of these programmes?

3ds Max is probably out of the question unless you want to pirate it, since it costs obscene amounts of money.

How much do you mean by "obscene"?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: pecenipicek on December 04, 2008, 04:02:05 pm
as in $1000 at the cheapest non-student, extremely function deprived version. :p


cinema4D is one of the best apps to start with. easy to get to grips with, powerfull when you need it.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 04:05:46 pm
owwwwww!
thats a little out of my price range,
where could i get "cinema4D" from?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 04, 2008, 04:23:05 pm
I'm an amature modeler myself and from my experiences it just takes some playing with it to learn it. I started on truespace... From my prospective, true space is a good place to start if nothing else than to learn how to play connect the dots in 3D where you can make your own dots  :p

It takes a bit of getting used to, esp with the controls hiding in menus the way it does, but the program itself is fairly comprehensive. There's alot of newbie modeling guides available on line but in my experience, nothing beats jumping in and getting your hands dirty.

Personally what I would do is learn how to create primitives first and see how you can modify them. (by primitives, basic shapes, boxes, spheres, cylinders etc). You'll begin to see how you can take a simple 6 sided cube and turn it into a 50 bajillion faced polygon that vaguely resembles a ship or some such thing.

I haven't messed with blender so I couldn't tell ya much about it. TS, however, is a good program for the cost (its free btw lol) I will for warn ya tho that TS has a tendency to crash if it doesn't like a particular piece of geometry. Just make sure you save often and it'll save you alot of head ache :p

If you decide to use TS, you'll need to find the True View plugin for it... atleast if you're going to make FS models.

oh and here, this is a good guide to understanding with TS... its written for version 3.2 but 7.6 is essentially the same and does all of what the guide says... http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/

That got me started. It may leave you asking a few questions but thats ok. Once you get started playing around with TS, it will make alot more sense and one day it'll all just click and there ya go =)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Galemp on December 04, 2008, 04:30:47 pm
where could i get "cinema4D" from?

Probably from here. (http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=cinema+4D)

Can you figure out where to get Blender?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 04:51:19 pm
where could i get "cinema4D" from?

Probably from here. (http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=cinema+4D)


ARE YOU TRYING TO BE FUNNY???
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: General Battuta on December 04, 2008, 04:53:57 pm
 ;7

(as much as I hate single-emoticon posts)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 04, 2008, 04:54:27 pm
omg lol... i've never seen that before =D I'm sorry, im not trying to be mean, but thats pretty damn funny lol
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Droid803 on December 04, 2008, 05:08:04 pm
Dang, that's awesome.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Jeff Vader on December 04, 2008, 05:09:18 pm
where could i get "cinema4D" from?

Probably from here. (http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=cinema+4D)

Can you figure out where to get Blender?
:lol:
Have to remember that one.

ARE YOU TRYING TO BE FUNNY???
Of course he is not. HLP is dead serious business. There is no humour. Never has been and never will be.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 05:18:54 pm
where could i get "cinema4D" from?

Probably from here. (http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=cinema+4D)

Can you figure out where to get Blender?
:lol:
Have to remember that one.

ARE YOU TRYING TO BE FUNNY???
Of course he is not. HLP is dead serious business. There is no humour. Never has been and never will be.


???
He, for some reason, instead of helping me by giving a direct link to a relatively useful site, has decided to try and be smart!
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: pecenipicek on December 04, 2008, 05:23:43 pm
he does have a point tho, google is your friend for stuff you dont know about.


[edit]in any case, here's a link to the demo
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Graphic/Graphic-Editors/CINEMA-4D.shtml
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Melkor on December 04, 2008, 05:31:11 pm
thanks for the help ;)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 04, 2008, 05:56:44 pm
Another one is Maya, but it's beyond ridiculously expensive. There is a 30 day demo or something like that, but your luck may be better to get a free program instead of a $5000 dollar program... :nod:
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: pecenipicek on December 05, 2008, 06:43:58 am
or just sing the pirate song :p
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Topgun on December 05, 2008, 09:07:58 am
Blender3d is DA BESTSS.
http://www.blender.org/
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: pecenipicek on December 05, 2008, 09:42:17 am
or da worrrrssstssss, if you're used to a button heavy, intuitive interface. truespace has a better interface than blender. hell, i started in truespace 3.2 and switched over to cinema 4d more or less seamlessly.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Topgun on December 05, 2008, 10:37:17 am
 :eek:
Truespaces' interface is terrible!
Truespace Dev:"I got an idea, why don't we hide ALL the useful buttons behind other buttons!"
Truespace Dev2:"Yeah! and then we can make the mouse useless so that users are forced to use our buttons just to move around!"
Dev1:"I got another idea! we should make it impossible to align the view to vertices or axis, that way they have to keep moving the view around (again using our buttons) to align things right!"
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 05, 2008, 11:39:15 am
... and dev 2 said "puff puff give, mother ******!" and they giggled like school girls and lived happily ever after
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: pecenipicek on December 05, 2008, 12:33:39 pm
ts 3.2 was useable and i preferred the "hidden" buttons. kept much of the screen free for the main view. reason i switched to C4D was mostly C4D's vastly superior render engine.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: chief1983 on December 05, 2008, 03:35:55 pm
Shouldn't rendering come second to things like how good of a model you can make when you're making a model for a game, and not a movie?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 05, 2008, 03:48:19 pm
Truespaces' interface is terrible!
I completely agree. After one look at it... :hopping:
That may just be me though. There's some I'm sure that are just fine with Truespace.

or just sing the pirate song :p
Even if you wanted I'm sure it wouldn't be that easy. Plus I'm sure most highly recommend against it.  :nervous:
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Jake2447 on December 06, 2008, 10:27:21 pm
you could also try wings3d

(google)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: pecenipicek on December 07, 2008, 05:51:44 am
Shouldn't rendering come second to things like how good of a model you can make when you're making a model for a game, and not a movie?
back then my models were crappy enough that it didnt matter :p when i switched out to c4d, things started to go quite rapidly. but now i'm stuck on unwrapping -.-

or to be more precise, i have no idea how to do proper unwraps which can nicely ignore seams.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: TrashMan on December 07, 2008, 06:35:28 am
Truespace Interface is BRILLIANT (aside from 7.1 What were tehy thinking with that thing? Good thing you can change the interface layouts)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 02:54:06 pm
Truespace Interface is BRILLIANT (aside from 7.1 What were tehy thinking with that thing? Good thing you can change the interface layouts)
Can you? And is ther version previous to 7.1 free?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: chief1983 on December 08, 2008, 05:37:18 pm
The latest free one before that was 3.2.  It was pretty old.
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 06:00:36 pm
Is there a plug-in or something for Truespace that will allow it to open a .cob file, or does 7.1 not do that?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vasudan Admiral on December 08, 2008, 06:03:54 pm
...I'd imagine-I'd hope they'd have the sense to include support for their own object format with all versions. (COB = Caligari OBject)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 06:29:44 pm
...I'd imagine-I'd hope they'd have the sense to include support for their own object format with all versions. (COB = Caligari OBject)
You would think. :rolleyes: That (and the Truespace interface) is why I don't like it. In a nutshell, it doesn't support .cob (and it doesn't save as a .cob or a .scn either.)
Do you think it would be worth downloading the OLD version to convert a model to a .cob or a .scn format?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: chief1983 on December 08, 2008, 06:41:57 pm
What?  It can too.  It's hidden under a different menu button though than the usual save/open dialog.  I forget where but there's a button in the upper right by default...
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 07:32:32 pm
7.6 can
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 07:42:31 pm
7.6 can
Where?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 07:53:58 pm
http://www.caligari.com/Products/trueSpace/tS75/Brochure/Intro.asp

just click download on that page, register and download ts 7.6 (i know it says 7.5 in the link but its 7.6, i promise)

*edit

I almost forgot, when you save the .cob, it'll give you a choice for what version to save it as... make sure its either version 3 or 5... cant exactly remember, all others wont import into PCS properly (and make sure you select all objects and save object as, not scene)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 08:05:13 pm
I have 7.6 (so it says.) I save the .cob file using 3dexploration and try to open it with Truespace, but it doesn't give me that open option. And it doesn't save as a .cob or a .scn (for me anyhow.)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 08:08:45 pm
thats very odd... are you on the work space screen when you try to open/save? or on the show case or w/e its called screen
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 08:11:29 pm
Ya, I'm on the workspace screen when I try to open/save. Is there a problem with that screen?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 08:13:40 pm
nope, thats where you should be... bleh i wish i still had TS on my pc so i can help you better... can you open up the "File" menu and take a screen shot of it for me?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 08:24:21 pm
Sure thing. Here: (Sorry about the picture quality. I don't know why it did that.)


[attachment stolen by Slimey Goober]
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 08:26:07 pm
ok i see what the problem is. in the upper * left hand corner, click on Truespace 6, then below that click on model... try agian =D
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 08:35:13 pm
Thanks. :) Truespace will open it now. Is it normal when I save it as a Caligari .cob file for PCS2 to not show the object?
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 08:38:10 pm
you need to select the right object version. I can't remember which version off the top of my head but in the pull down menu is a list of several file formats including 4 or 5 .cob's. I think it was version 3 or 5, i'm just not sure. Also, you need a light source on the model, doesn't matter where just so long as you have 1. and the texture maps need to be in a folder where pcs can see them or you can manually point to the maps also
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 08:51:37 pm
1. I don't have texture maps (are they needed?)

2. When I tried the 3rd saving format (Truespace 6.0 object) and the 5th saving format (Truespace 4.3 object) and opened it in PCS2 it gave me an error saying "No groups defined" and crashed.

3. I don't know how to add lighting (it may be the whole problem I guess.)

4. Sorry for being a pain, but it sure helps. :)


EDIT: It works. I tried it with a newer version of PCS2 and it opened and saved as a .pof Thanks for all the help!!! :) I do have one more question though: How do you add multiple lights in truespace to the model (the model is very dark in modview.) :)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: Vertigo 7 on December 08, 2008, 09:11:22 pm
no worries. Firstly it sounds like you need to get the True View plugin for TS. You gotta set up the object hierchy.

I'm pretty sure PCS wont display models with out textures, even if you've assigned the objects a "material" color. Otherwise they just show up black.

As far as adding a light, i forget how to do it but it's simple.

Read over this guide by IP Andrews. It'll tell you what you need to know about getting a model from TS into PCS. Its written for ts 3.x but the tools are the same (just might have a different location/icon).

http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/

I think the guide also has a link to the trueview plugin. it does work with 7.6

If this is your first time really doing this, what I would do to learn what you're doing, make a simple object, like a box, create a 2nd box and stick em close to each other and make one a child to the other. Create a generic texture with your favorite texturing program (or even use one that you already have from another model), assign that texture in TS, save as cob and open it with pcs.

The guide will tell you all that you need to know to make it happen. There may be some interface quirks with TS that will cause you to have some questions but thats not a problem =) It just takes time to learn it
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: dragonsniper on December 08, 2008, 09:16:48 pm
Thanks so much! :D I'll point out any questions I have. :)
Title: Re: Modelling
Post by: chief1983 on December 08, 2008, 11:00:21 pm
Trueview 1.2 (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/files/trueview12.7z)
Trueview 1.5 (http://swc.fs2downloads.com/files/tview15.zip)

1.2 came with TS3.2 I believe, and 1.5 was a later upgraded version.