Hard Light Productions Forums

General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: HotSnoJ on March 09, 2002, 01:56:18 am

Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: HotSnoJ on March 09, 2002, 01:56:18 am
Here's a list of things I would change about FS.

[list=1]
Better AI
Bigger and better Explosions
Explosions that take up 3D space.
Better AI
Make it so its easier to mod for
Make it so it doenn't take so da** long to load the levels with my comp
When a ship gets hit there will be holes in it (like nTrap (http://www.n-trap.co.uk/))
[/list=1]
Title: Re: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Stunaep on March 09, 2002, 06:11:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by hotsnoj

Make it so its easier to mod for

[/list=1]


??????????????????
Fs is the easiest game to mod, well maybe homeworld is a bit simpler, but... well, whats so hard about it??
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Ulundel on March 09, 2002, 06:11:35 am
Easier to MOD? ahem...try to mod TR, then you will know what's hard. I think that FS is easy to mod if you just know how to do it! :D
Title: Re: Re: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Nico on March 09, 2002, 06:39:48 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stunaep


??????????????????
Fs is the easiest game to mod, well maybe homeworld is a bit simpler, but... well, whats so hard about it??

lol, yeah, there's games much easier to mod ;)
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: an0n on March 09, 2002, 06:44:20 am
Try modding ST:Armada from scratch. It's friggin impossible. All those ****ting data files, sprite files, model files and crap. It's easy as hell to play with someone elses mod but to make your on is hard.

The only way FS could be easier to MOD would be if turret-models, guns, engine glows and stuff were designated in the TBL files instead of the POF's. And if you didn't need to extract the VP's. The fact that all the used files can be extracted to the data directory and played with to your hearts content without killing the game is astonishingly good willed (and excellent planning) on Volitions part.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: karajorma on March 09, 2002, 06:45:07 am
I know it's not hard to MOD freespace in comparison to other games but it could be made easier.

Why not have the same thing they have in Iwar II where you can activate the mods you like.

I`d like to have the ability to go back and play a campaign from any point in it (like Wing Commander Prophecy). In that way after you complete a campaign you can go back and have a look at the  branches you didn't take. This would lead to less linear campaigns.

There are quite a few SEXP's I want added too.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: an0n on March 09, 2002, 07:47:11 am
if
-Gives-Command-the-finger
--Alpha 1
-Self-Destruct
--Alpha-Wing
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Galemp on March 09, 2002, 08:44:23 am
Beam cannon impact scorch marks! Watch the Machina Terra trailer and tell me that's not cool.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: TeflonBob on March 09, 2002, 09:06:17 am
1) Better radar:
   
A true 3d picture of your position with capships shown brighter so you can get a clear tactical picture of your situation at a glance, current radar is totally useless in a big fight with multiple targets

2) Better commannds:

To be able to tell wingmates to attack at the range of their longest range weapon, time after time i load wingmates up with trebs and maxims and they just run right up to a capship and get ripped to shreds! :confused:
Also to be able to assign a wing to attack a whole wing instead of a single target so if a wing of bombers jump in i can say alpha wing attack that wing and each of alpha will select one ship and atack it.
Hold position command so you can lead bombers out to a safe place and tell them to wait while you clear a path with fighters then bring them in later.

3) Better targeting:

A specific beam turret targeting key so you don't have to scroll through 30 turrets to get a target on bigger ships.

4) Loadout copying:

So you can configure one ship and copy the loadout onto as many as you like without doing each one manually.

5) Better weapons balance:

Too many weapons are totally useless, sublachs lampreys akethons, morning stars ect it's fun to have a range of ways to do damage but you usually can only win by taking Prometheus, kaysers or maxims, missles are just as bad, has anyone ever won with an inferno?
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: CP5670 on March 09, 2002, 10:59:05 am
Better fighter AI
No SEXP operator limits in missions
Better fighter AI
Harder missions in main campaign
Better fighter AI
Ability to join multiplayer games in progress
Better fighter AI
POF additional (non-model related) data inside table files
Better fighter AI
A few extra event operators, maybe message-sent-delay, force-keypress and fire-turret
Better fighter AI

That's about it. :D
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Setekh on March 10, 2002, 12:29:06 am
Now, where's that FS3 wishlist... :)
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: HotSnoJ on March 10, 2002, 06:21:49 am
One more thing.

(don't know if someone said this or something like it)Turrents that you can fire on command.

BTW When I said Easier to mod for. I meant to make the models and stuff for then would be so da** looooong and teadius.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: LtNarol on March 10, 2002, 09:52:22 am
If you've every played in multi, subachs have a very tactical use (taking down a fighter's shields and then disabling it so that its out of the fight), as do lampreys and circes (same with shields, also good for times when you take the maxim), morningstar has a very important role as it turns your target around while still keeping it in your targetting reticle, infernos...dont even get me started on infernos.  Have you ever played a mission where there are just too many enemy fighters and cruisers for you to deal with?    If you know how to use them, infernos can be very useful.  Akehtons are also very useful for capture missions, if you disable a freighter with any other primaries as well as disarm it, you'll more than likely distroy it.  Same applies to the Stilleto.

Every weapon in FS2 is there for a reason.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Setekh on March 12, 2002, 07:06:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
Every weapon in FS2 is there for a reason.


Say it with me now!

Terran!
Turret!
#WEAK!!


:D
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: diamondgeezer on March 12, 2002, 08:09:34 pm
Terran Turrent #Weaks aside, believe me the modding is easy. I've been dabbling with AvP2 mods recently, and all I got in reward was a few new skins (nice as they are) and a headache. I posted a couple of Qs over on the planetavp boards over a week ago, still no reply. Us FSers (well, the FREDders, anyway), have it easy, especially with boards like this one to back us up...
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Kamikaze on March 12, 2002, 08:30:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh


Say it with me now!

Terran!
Turret!
#WEAK!!


:D


Hey! Turrets have feelings too :(
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: CP5670 on March 12, 2002, 09:00:11 pm
I like the Hornet#weak better. :p:D
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Galemp on March 12, 2002, 09:07:02 pm
And who could forget the Cyclops#short? Or the Harbinger#end?
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Setekh on March 13, 2002, 05:08:43 am
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Hey! Turrets have feelings too :(


So? They're my turrets :D
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Bobboau on March 13, 2002, 05:15:31 am
actualy that is probly the best origonal anti fighter capship turret
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Unknown Target on March 13, 2002, 05:31:50 am
definately explosions that are 3D, however, that would be harder to MOD:(
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Setekh on March 13, 2002, 06:38:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
actualy that is probly the best origonal anti fighter capship turret


You learn something new everyday... :D

3D explosions... depends how you implement it, I suppose. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure how you would do it exactly.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Tar-Palantir on March 14, 2002, 10:01:31 am
Why does everyone think the AI is bad? I've used the example before but...

The Story: Alpha wing has to protect a Fenris. Shivans are sending bomber and assult-fighter wings against it.

Every time the Shivan wings respawn, the new ships have no hull damage and full weapons.

Every time the Shivan wings respawn, Alpha wing has the same damage and number of weapons they had when the prevous Shivan wing was destroyed.

Repeat for several wings of Shivans and of course your going to lose fighters! Its a naural consequence of what happening.

Maybe the AI could be better at destroying invidual turrets, but I've yet to play a mission where I think 'damn, I wish Beta 3 would take out that turret.'

Thats it, rant over.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 14, 2002, 10:25:55 am
You're always unrealisticly outnumbered. I say we have less , but smarter enemy ships.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: mikhael on March 14, 2002, 10:38:53 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tar-Palantir
Why does everyone think the AI is bad? I've used the example before but...

The Story: Alpha wing has to protect a Fenris. Shivans are sending bomber and assult-fighter wings against it.

Every time the Shivan wings respawn, the new ships have no hull damage and full weapons.

Every time the Shivan wings respawn, Alpha wing has the same damage and number of weapons they had when the prevous Shivan wing was destroyed.

Repeat for several wings of Shivans and of course your going to lose fighters! Its a naural consequence of what happening.

Maybe the AI could be better at destroying invidual turrets, but I've yet to play a mission where I think 'damn, I wish Beta 3 would take out that turret.'

Thats it, rant over.


The AI is bad, and your example is worse, since it doesn't really speak to the quality of the AI in any way.

The AI is bad because:


AI is absolutely horrible. You have to crank the difficulty level to the top to get anything approaching a fair fight, and even then you can memorize the way the various ship classes fly, and massacre them at your leisure.

One day, someone will write good AI. Maybe. Hopefully.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Stunaep on March 15, 2002, 02:18:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by TeflonBob

2) Better commannds:

To be able to tell wingmates to attack at the range of their longest range weapon, time after time i load wingmates up with trebs and maxims and they just run right up to a capship and get ripped to shreds! :confused:
Also to be able to assign a wing to attack a whole wing instead of a single target so if a wing of bombers jump in i can say alpha wing attack that wing and each of alpha will select one ship and atack it.
Hold position command so you can lead bombers out to a safe place and tell them to wait while you clear a path with fighters then bring them in later.



Better yet,  integrate that into AI. If one thing lacked in FS2, it was the AI.

Quote


3) Better targeting:

A specific beam turret targeting key so you don't have to scroll through 30 turrets to get a target on bigger ships.



Agreed. Totally agreed. In escort missions, especially in single-play and on harder  difficulties, it is vital to take out beams. I´ve lost several mission because a accidentally scrolled through a beam turret. Also, the turrets should be named correctly, not just Beam turret and Laser turret. I don´t want to waste trebs on AAA, when i really want to take out that BGreen thats firing upon a civilian vessel

Quote


5) Better weapons balance:

Too many weapons are totally useless, sublachs lampreys akethons, morning stars ect it's fun to have a range of ways to do damage but you usually can only win by taking Prometheus, kaysers or maxims, missles are just as bad, has anyone ever won with an inferno?


ok, Inferno and Lamprey suck bad, but Morning Star rocks in TvT and Dogfight, Subachs are good for combination with Prometheus S (excellent fire rate, little energy drain, while the Proms suck up weapon energy, the subachs make short work for fighters, after being bombarded by a constant Prom fire). Most missiles I´ve found really useful in certain missiles (Rockeye in TvT, Tempest in TvT, Harpoon everywhere, Piranha in bomber assaults etc). The only truely useful missions in FS are IMHO the Infyrno and the EMP.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: CP5670 on March 15, 2002, 03:56:12 am
Quote
You're always unrealisticly outnumbered. I say we have less , but smarter enemy ships.


Agreed. The only reason I put lots of enemies in my missions is that they are too incompetent otherwise. :p
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Setekh on March 15, 2002, 06:47:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Agreed. The only reason I put lots of enemies in my missions is that they are too incompetent otherwise. :p


You mean too ineffectual. They stay incompetent when you add more. Nay, they become more incompetent; since they have a higher chance of crashing into each other in higher numbers. :D
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 15, 2002, 04:26:10 pm
Er... FS is hardly the easiest game to mod, but it's as good as things come in other respects- most moddable games (a disturbing minority in the gaming world) have one of two basic approaches to modding:

1. You can make some things (usu. player units) look different, and occasionally change the damage capabilities of units, all using methods a 6-year-old could sort out, but cannot add or change the properties of existing units.

2. You can do whatever you damn well like, including modifying AI, completely changing units, writing new missions with complex scripts, but you have to be a programming god, and probably godly in several other fields.

FreeSpace is a nice medium, which is rare. Be glad it's not like most.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 15, 2002, 05:03:44 pm
The one thing I wish could be changed....3ds import support in FRED2!  That way we wouldn't have to be limited by a stupid conversion process...especially since the models were made in 3ds in the first place!
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 15, 2002, 05:09:00 pm
'S what I liked initially about I-War- it actually went straight from actual 3D files from an actual 3D program designed by actual sane people.
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: Setekh on March 16, 2002, 12:27:06 am
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Er... FS is hardly the easiest game to mod, but it's as good as things come in other respects- most moddable games (a disturbing minority in the gaming world) have one of two basic approaches to modding:

1. You can make some things (usu. player units) look different, and occasionally change the damage capabilities of units, all using methods a 6-year-old could sort out, but cannot add or change the properties of existing units.

2. You can do whatever you damn well like, including modifying AI, completely changing units, writing new missions with complex scripts, but you have to be a programming god, and probably godly in several other fields.

FreeSpace is a nice medium, which is rare. Be glad it's not like most.


Very true, it is an intermediate in terms of those two extremes. But at this stage in FreeSpace's lifetime, I'm wishing it was closer to number 2 - we could do a lot more with it then. *shrugs*
Title: The one thing you could change....
Post by: karajorma on March 16, 2002, 06:05:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh


Very true, it is an intermediate in terms of those two extremes. But at this stage in FreeSpace's lifetime, I'm wishing it was closer to number 2 - we could do a lot more with it then. *shrugs*


But there would be fewer of you to do it. If it wasn`t for the ease with which I picked up FRED I doubt I`d still be in the community let alone writing missions.

FS2 didn`t sell very well so unlike Quake there wouldn`t be many gods around to mod it.

Of course the perfect middle ground would be a source code release. Then the programming gods would be happy. Pity we aren`t going to see one any time soon.