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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on December 05, 2008, 11:00:27 pm

Title: Radar dishes
Post by: Kosh on December 05, 2008, 11:00:27 pm
Why do FS1 era Terran warships have radar dishes, but FS2 era doesn't? Does it even make a difference?
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: terran_emperor on December 05, 2008, 11:46:53 pm
___Eyes Only___
___The Following Is CLASSIFIED LEVEL SPECULATION___
___Unauthorised Quoting As Canon Is Punishable By A Slap In The Face___
___Sol Convention - 06-12-08___
FS2 era craft have near shivan-level sensors.
Craft prior to the Great War, required a Radar Dish to assist their sensors.
Following the Capture of Shivan sensors during the Great War, Sensors were upgraded fleetwide.
The upgraded sensors, eliminated the need for Radar dishes in future designs like the Hecate.
However, The Radar dish was built heavily in to existing craft that used it, meaning that to remove it would compromise ship opporations.
___Eyes Only___

Actually i have no idea on what the Radar Dish does.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Droid803 on December 06, 2008, 12:10:40 am
Its just for looks.
The FS1 shipsh ad it because it looked cool, then they took them off in FS2 to make the ships look more sleek.
terran emperor's explanation that sensor technology improved and they could house the equipment internally makes for a good in-universe explanation. :nod:
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 06, 2008, 12:19:51 am
A move toward dedicated AWACS ships?

Quote
Each GTVA battle group has a squadron of Charybdis-class ships assigned to it. These ships double the range of the group's standard detection arrays.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Mars on December 06, 2008, 12:48:22 am
Honestly what would be amazing is Leviathans (or even a Fenris) modified with an AWACs dish, as a way of having dedicated AWACS ships without the fragile crap ship.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 06, 2008, 01:02:16 am
You would figure a flak/anti-fighter heavy version would be a logical progression.  Either that or the development of technology that prevents the locking of enemy bombs and missiles in a range around the craft. 

Then again if you build something the size of the Colossus you think they would have plenty of room to include AWACS capabilities. 
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: eliex on December 06, 2008, 01:06:56 am
Why do FS1 era Terran warships have radar dishes, but FS2 era doesn't?

The FS2 GTM Hippocrates has a radar dish IIRC. Still, it is technically a civilian ship.

Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 06, 2008, 01:08:22 am
Doesn't the Colossus have Radar Dishes too?
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: eliex on December 06, 2008, 01:12:39 am
It does.  :nod:
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 06, 2008, 01:16:16 am
And the Fenris and Leviathan? :nervous:
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: eliex on December 06, 2008, 01:25:43 am
But they're FS1 era right?  :p
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: terran_emperor on December 06, 2008, 01:37:56 am
And the Fenris and Leviathan? :nervous:

Well the Fenris and Leviathan are FS1 era ships - refer to my first post above for why they have radar dishes in-universe


Doesn't the Colossus have Radar Dishes too?

To be fair, the colossus did take 2 decades to complete. Its going to be a mix of the best tech available for something at the time, various other doo-hickies that seemed like a good idea at the time but now have a new compact hight tech macguffin to replace it, and sudden inspirations...

I'll be perfectly honest, i dont think the Colossus was ready during FS2. I think she was rushed into service due to the  shivan presence in/beyond G-Draconis and the tide of the NTF war turning against the GTVA. Once completed, she would require a shakedown cruise, then a Refit to bring her completly up to modern standards, followed by another shakedown to ensure that she works properly.
-I dub this problem of launching a ship before its ready "Enterprise Refit Syndrome" (ERS) after the problems that the USS Enterprise and Enterprise-A suffered from when they were rushed into service - See ST:TMP and STV:TFF to see what i Mean
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 06, 2008, 02:37:31 am
Never listen to punk on a bus. . . .
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Kosh on December 06, 2008, 02:44:20 am
___Eyes Only___
___The Following Is CLASSIFIED LEVEL SPECULATION___
___Unauthorised Quoting As Canon Is Punishable By A Slap In The Face___
___Sol Convention - 06-12-08___
FS2 era craft have near shivan-level sensors.
Craft prior to the Great War, required a Radar Dish to assist their sensors.
Following the Capture of Shivan sensors during the Great War, Sensors were upgraded fleetwide.
The upgraded sensors, eliminated the need for Radar dishes in future designs like the Hecate.
However, The Radar dish was built heavily in to existing craft that used it, meaning that to remove it would compromise ship opporations.
___Eyes Only___

Actually i have no idea on what the Radar Dish does.



But then again Vasudans never used them, so maybe the Vasudans just had better sensor technology?
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: terran_emperor on December 06, 2008, 03:17:00 am
Quote from: Colonol Dekker
Never listen to punk on a bus. . . .

Thats STIV:TVH not STV:TFF...here's proof (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QYdczjhGvg8)
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 06, 2008, 03:50:46 am
I know its TVH. But it's still the best moment from any film.  :p
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: terran_emperor on December 06, 2008, 03:52:51 am
so, did i get you?
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 06, 2008, 03:54:38 am
Eh? I'm on wap, can't see links :p
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 06, 2008, 06:43:27 am
Oh yeah, that handphone icon... ;)
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: BengalTiger on December 06, 2008, 07:00:11 am
___Eyes Only___
___The Following Is CLASSIFIED LEVEL SPECULATION___
___Unauthorised Quoting As Canon Is Punishable By A Slap In The Face___
___Sol Convention - 06-12-08___
FS2 era craft have near shivan-level sensors.
Craft prior to the Great War, required a Radar Dish to assist their sensors.
Following the Capture of Shivan sensors during the Great War, Sensors were upgraded fleetwide.
The upgraded sensors, eliminated the need for Radar dishes in future designs like the Hecate.
However, The Radar dish was built heavily in to existing craft that used it, meaning that to remove it would compromise ship opporations.
___Eyes Only___

Actually i have no idea on what the Radar Dish does.


I'd say that the GTVA had better sensors than the Shivans- we were able to find cruisers and colonies of gas miners before they found our capships in the Nebula...
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: S-99 on December 06, 2008, 08:26:23 am
___Eyes Only___
___The Following Is CLASSIFIED LEVEL SPECULATION___
___Unauthorised Quoting As Canon Is Punishable By A Slap In The Face___
___Sol Convention - 06-12-08___
FS2 era craft have near shivan-level sensors.
Craft prior to the Great War, required a Radar Dish to assist their sensors.
Following the Capture of Shivan sensors during the Great War, Sensors were upgraded fleetwide.
The upgraded sensors, eliminated the need for Radar dishes in future designs like the Hecate.
However, The Radar dish was built heavily in to existing craft that used it, meaning that to remove it would compromise ship opporations.
___Eyes Only___

Actually i have no idea on what the Radar Dish does.

Sounds feasible considering star trek did the same thing switching from external to internal deflector dishes.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Snail on December 06, 2008, 08:47:57 am
So if Star Trek decided that the universe is actually made out of giant blobs of cheese and curry mixed in with rock salt, would it be feasible? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: MarkN on December 06, 2008, 09:04:48 am
Sounds feasable considering the conformal arrays being planned for the Zumwalt-class (DD(X)), or the internal radars on modern fighters.
On the other hand, I have no idea what use a single stationary dish is for a spaceship, with multiple angles of approach. Remember, a dish is directional.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Snail on December 06, 2008, 09:05:39 am
I'm more inclined to think the radar dishes are more sophisticated, like maybe they have gamma scanners or something.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on December 06, 2008, 11:37:40 am
I'd say that the GTVA had better sensors than the Shivans- we were able to find cruisers and colonies of gas miners before they found our capships in the Nebula...
Or they just didn't attack us :nervous: Shivan logic?
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: S-99 on December 06, 2008, 06:12:34 pm
So if Star Trek decided that the universe is actually made out of giant blobs of cheese and curry mixed in with rock salt, would it be feasible? :rolleyes:
Yes because you will just go ahead and ignore similarities. Miss my point day. The idea of internal sensory and comm systems is that it's feasible. It's sort of like today in real life how many cell phones have internal antennae's as opposed to the older kind which had external ones.

If a system once external made it's way into a the same system that's now internal and just as good to rely upon as the old one. Then i'd say radar dishes are no more advanced than internal sensory and comm systems of fs2 era ships since they have no radar dishes. Benefit of internal systems instead of external? Internal sensory and comm systems are harder to find and take out than just blasting off the radar dishes.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on December 06, 2008, 06:45:56 pm
RADAR dishes don't make any sense to begin with.  You would think they would be using LIDAR. 
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Retsof on December 06, 2008, 07:05:29 pm
They could be using SU(subspace)DAR for all we know.  They do seem to have FTL sensors.  Could just be called radar because just a standard term.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Snail on December 07, 2008, 04:58:23 am
Yes because you will just go ahead and ignore similarities. Miss my point day. The idea of internal sensory and comm systems is that it's feasible. It's sort of like today in real life how many cell phones have internal antennae's as opposed to the older kind which had external ones.

If a system once external made it's way into a the same system that's now internal and just as good to rely upon as the old one. Then i'd say radar dishes are no more advanced than internal sensory and comm systems of fs2 era ships since they have no radar dishes. Benefit of internal systems instead of external? Internal sensory and comm systems are harder to find and take out than just blasting off the radar dishes.
My point was, whatever Star Trek does has nothing to do with FS2.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: BengalTiger on December 07, 2008, 05:14:38 am
I'd say that the GTVA had better sensors than the Shivans- we were able to find cruisers and colonies of gas miners before they found our capships in the Nebula...
Or they just didn't attack us :nervous: Shivan logic?

Maybe... but it is a fact that the GTVA began the hunt before the Shivans found our capships.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on December 07, 2008, 08:26:28 am
Before they attacked our capships, yes. Before they found our capships, who knows? For some crazy Shivan reason, they might have waited before they attacked :P
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Snail on December 07, 2008, 08:34:00 am
Well the Shivans didn't have AWACS (save for the Sath) and were fully capable of locating our ships.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: BengalTiger on December 07, 2008, 09:29:24 am
Once they lost 2 cruisers and an SD they might have simply combed the Nebula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtkK3eijBso)*


*- Minor language warning, minors beware.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: terran_emperor on December 07, 2008, 07:49:54 pm
Sounds feasible considering star trek did the same thing switching from external to internal deflector dishes.

So if Star Trek decided that the universe is actually made out of giant blobs of cheese and curry mixed in with rock salt, would it be feasible? :rolleyes:
Yes because you will just go ahead and ignore similarities. Miss my point day. The idea of internal sensory and comm systems is that it's feasible. It's sort of like today in real life how many cell phones have internal antennae's as opposed to the older kind which had external ones.

If a system once external made it's way into a the same system that's now internal and just as good to rely upon as the old one. Then i'd say radar dishes are no more advanced than internal sensory and comm systems of fs2 era ships since they have no radar dishes. Benefit of internal systems instead of external? Internal sensory and comm systems are harder to find and take out than just blasting off the radar dishes.

To paraphrase a well known saying:

""They did it on Star Trek!" is never an acceptable excuse for anything. Ever. Not even Breathing."

_____

Once they lost 2 cruisers and an SD they might have simply combed the Nebula (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtkK3eijBso)*


*- Minor language warning, minors beware.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: karajorma on December 08, 2008, 05:03:49 am
They could be using SU(subspace)DAR for all we know.  They do seem to have FTL sensors.  Could just be called radar because just a standard term.

That's basically my opinion. I very much doubt that they are actually using standard Radar as we know it but by the time new technology came along the term would have been so ingrained that everyone continued to call it radar. It's the same as how tank units are still sometimes called cavalry (And even air units sometimes!).

One thing we definitely know is that ships have something other than radio wave radar. Whether this is in addition to radio wave radar or instead of it is another matter.

Quote
Ships of the GTA Charybdis class have been packed with the latest tachyon-enabled AWACS equipment from GTVI labs.


Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 08, 2008, 09:50:05 am
Well, there are real AWACS, you know. :nervous:
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: BengalTiger on December 08, 2008, 12:41:11 pm

Quote
Ships of the GTA Charybdis class have been packed with the latest tachyon-enabled AWACS equipment from GTVI labs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachyon
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: karajorma on December 10, 2008, 11:35:59 am
Well, there are real AWACS, you know. :nervous:

Huh?
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Mars on December 10, 2008, 12:13:07 pm
Airborn Early Warning and Control
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Colonol Dekker on December 10, 2008, 12:15:44 pm
System too. . . .the S isn't for pluralism.
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Mars on December 10, 2008, 12:17:10 pm
lol woops
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: karajorma on December 12, 2008, 08:48:55 am
I know what it means. What I don't understand is what the hell Androgeos was on about. :)
Title: Re: Radar dishes
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on December 12, 2008, 10:23:35 am
Ah yes, that. I'd thought I should bring that up when I saw your quote:


Quote
Ships of the GTA Charybdis class have been packed with the latest tachyon-enabled AWACS equipment from GTVI labs.