Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Stormkeeper on December 17, 2008, 02:39:32 am
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I'm just curious. My curiousity often leads to something more, but for now, who's heard of Ferrium, and who hasn't? If you have heard of it(other than in my interview of Maeglor, or Martinus), where, and do you know what it was meant to do?
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Although I heard Trashman mention it a few times (In context of the Archangel), I don't know what Ferrium is, so I voted no.
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Yes... it's a metal here in the real world.
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Never heard of it till now. I'm going to check it out whatever it is on the net now.
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It was an attempt by SCP coders to start a new code from scratch, saying that the FSO engine will reach its limitations sooner or later.
It didn't get vey far. They were received a badge and a public forum where there were some general coding discussions going on (recommendations, ambitions, enquiries, etc.). As always, everyone was occupied by other projects. It was shut down soon.
When "the Smart Man" came along, he threatened the Ferrium project that he would shut it down if he got the license for efesthree. He called it the "Ferrious Oxide" project.
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*Sings in a scouse accent*
"Ferrium across the Merseyum"
:lol:
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I thought Kazan started Ferrium was started before the source code release, as a way to basically recode the engine from scratch and have full control over it. The actual source code release killed it.
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I thought Kazan started Ferrium was started before the source code release, as a way to basically recode the engine from scratch and have full control over it. The actual source code release killed it.
Yeah, that's how I remember it all playing out.
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Way I remember it it was supposed to be a replacement for the SCP when it reached its limitations.
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So Ferrium was started before the source code release, to recreate the FS2 engine, only under that now it would be like a community project, so to speak, and wouldn't be the IP of any company?
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yeah... it was basically an attempt to start the SCP without actually having access to the original code.
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Ferrium? What the hell is that?
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Read the thread. :rolleyes:
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No it wasn't the SCP release that killed it. It was started while the source code project was pretty solid around the time of the Derek incident, IIRC. Basically like TopAce put it.
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I think that we are all here because of Ferrium. Honestly.
HLP, the graphics upgrade project all the renovation work currently being done, NONE of those would have been possible without the release of the source code by its rightful holders, Volition.
Volition itself realised just how badly people wanted to improve FS2, because of Ferrium.
It stepped in, released the code, and even if it killed Ferrium on the short term, on the long term (and after a lot of work by the coders) we now have...
-Babylon project
-WC saga
-Redline
Media VP's, stunning viduals and all too many things to mention.
Kudos to Volition which saved all the coders from 3-4 years of coding into the wilderness, and then so much time re-creating all the missions from scratch (as there would be no way for the old missions to be compatible to a completely new game)
Kudos also to Ferrium and its originator, Kazan, who, by starting all of this caused the release of FS2 source files. This, of course is my theory, but I am sticking to it. Kazan and Volition saved Freespace from oblivion and gave it a new lease of life and a rebirth that we are all now experiencing and the modders are a part of.
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The source code was released in 2002, the copyright date on the Ferrium website is 2004, and those don't usually get update once the author puts the site out (not impossible, just not usual). Even if it did, I don't think the project was started before 2002 and then still managed to keep kicking enough to warrant even updating the site for a full 2 years afterwards. I have a feeling it was started at some point after 2002. I can't find any more information without digging deep into the forums though.
Also, from the home page: "Hopefully by the time the current engine becomes infeasable to upgrade efficiently we will have the Ferrium Engine Ready."
Implies they were already upgrading the engine when they were working on ferrium. So it's not like the page was stagnated immediately after the source release, there was definitely work being done on Ferrium well after that point.
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So, as far as I can see, there are two schools of thought as to what happened to Ferrium.
1) It was meant to create the FS2 engine under an open license, but was killed when Volition released the source code for FS2
2) Ferrium was meant to replace the FS2 engine when it reaches its saturation point, but work on it fizzled out after the source code release.
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The last parts of both of your sentences sound like the same thing. I think the second one should have read, Ferrium was meant to replace the FS2 open source engine when it reaches its saturation point, but work on it fizzled out.
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It was an attempt by SCP coders to start a new code from scratch, saying that the FSO engine will reach its limitations sooner or later.
It didn't get vey far. They were received a badge and a public forum where there were some general coding discussions going on (recommendations, ambitions, enquiries, etc.). As always, everyone was occupied by other projects. It was shut down soon.
When "the Smart Man" came along, he threatened the Ferrium project that he would shut it down if he got the license for efesthree. He called it the "Ferrious Oxide" project.
Oh god! I remember that board! :D
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The source code release didn't kill it - as has been said, the SCP was already reasonably well established by then. At the time though the SCP was plagued by what seemed to be insurmountable bugs, and Ferrium was proposed and started up as a replacement engine. A bit got done, but nothing hugely significant - people, though excited by it, weren't all that interested in working on it, and so it stagnated and died.
Those insurmountable bugs have pretty much all since been ....surmounted, and the SCP is continuing stronger and more bug-free than ever. :D
So basically there's no need for Ferrium anymore anyway. It was fun while it lasted though. :)
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I'm personally interested on doing a short article on it, for the interview board. I feel its a part of HLP's history, and shouldn't be forgotten.
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Ferrium came up long after the SCP release. The name comes from Freespace Engine 2, or Fe2. The thought was that the existing FS2 engine used clunky code practices and would be hard to upgrade and maintain over time (although it had no serious problems at the time), so it would be better to start from scratch. Like most overly ambitious projects around here, there was a lot of discussion but very little actual work was done. It effectively died out after a few months as people lost interest.
Kazan brought it up again a year later, saying that he intended to make an entirely different game with it (unrelated to FS), but I don't think that went anywhere either.
Some people are confusing Ferrium with Freespace Forever. It was a similar idea and was also started by Kazan, but a lot less focused and pre-SCP. There was one lengthy thread on it and nobody brought it up again after that. Unlike Ferrium, I don't think anyone ever seriously worked on it.
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Thanks for clearing that up CP.
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/...a lot less focused and pre-SCP...
That must have been ages ago. When I first came here, I already saw the Source Code Project. I didn't know what that was, but it was there.
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(although it had no serious problems at the time)
Though I don't think they were the whole reason for the concept of Ferrium, the SCP definitely had some big problems back then. ;)
The Y-targetting crash, trying to simultaneously support D3D and OGL, multi-docking, autopilot, in-mission cutscenes and normal maps were mere dreams, no correctly working multiplayer, faulty/inefficient/incomplete shadow, decal, submodel animation and material systems, only the first stages of scripting builds if they were actually out back then at all, some very troublesome FRED build problems that IIRC prevented all but one person being able to build it, all kinds of sound issues (that have since been cleaned up via using openAL), no FSO installer to help newbies, faulty MVPs, and a few other things like shinemaps not working on certain cards.
Kazan I think already had Ferrium in mind before that period, but those problems are certainly a part of the reason Ferrium generated so much excitement. Since then though thanks to the hard work of all the coders on the team, the SCP has not only rid itself of those bugs but has come leaps and bounds in terms of graphical abilities and overall feature sets. :D
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Ugh...thanks for dredging up all sorts of unpleasant memories. :p I first came into the community right around that time, and my first experiences with the SCP were an utter train wreck. It was a total crap-shoot to find a build that wouldn't crash on you after every single mission, and even then, that Y-targeting bug would rear its ugly head without warning and send you back to the desktop. Even putting all of the new features and content aside, the simple fact that the team has managed to get the project to as stable a point as they have is a massive achievement. :)
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that Y-targeting bug would rear its ugly head without warning and send you back to the desktop.
I remember that! Makes me feel like an older member of the community. :D
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Might be a little much, but I'd like to hear about all these bugs that made Ferrium a more attractive solution at that time. Like details and such.
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that Y-targeting bug would rear its ugly head without warning and send you back to the desktop.
I remember that! Makes me feel like an older member of the community. :D
Ugh, yeah, I entered the SCP about halfway through high school, so that'd put it in 04-05. Everything was hideously inefficient and I had this weird glitch with propagating capship explosions where, instead of being torn in half by the blast, two separate copies of the ship would appear and move away from each other. Just for jollies, I dug around and found the old screen I took for Mantis and slapped it on photobucket (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc105/Krelus/GLITCH.jpg). And for some reason the FSOpen executable refused to recognize my FX card in D3D or OpenGL. I think this was around 3.6.5, but I can't remember.
The SCP has come a long, long way since then. Getting a crash now is a surprising event, and with normal maps it looks as good as Oblivion (effects look even better :3)
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I had this weird glitch with propagating capship explosions where, instead of being torn in half by the blast, two separate copies of the ship would appear and move away from each other.
Although I didn't have FS2 then, I noticed that when I played FSO with D3D sometimes (a while ago, last year?) on my desktop, everytime a vessel was supposed to disappear, all the mesh that had textures with a glow map would not disappear. When a cap-ship exploded in 'half', something exactly like your screenshot occurred.
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I had this weird glitch with propagating capship explosions where, instead of being torn in half by the blast, two separate copies of the ship would appear and move away from each other.
Although I didn't have FS2 then, I noticed that when I played FSO with D3D sometimes (a while ago, last year?) on my desktop, everytime a vessel was supposed to disappear, all the mesh that had textures with a glow map would not disappear. When a cap-ship exploded in 'half', something exactly like your screenshot occurred.
Right, it WAS the glowmaps. It wasn't all bad, though. I remember seeing the HTL Herc model for the first time with a slack jaw, ogling the fact that the cockpit was see-through. And for some reason I absolutely adored the elliptical orange 2D shockwaves of the 3.5.7-ish era. Never been a big fan of the bright blue 3D ones, myself.