Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kamikaze on March 11, 2002, 01:45:24 am
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Westwood is working on their next game, Command and Conquer: Generals
Read about it here (http://gamespot.com/gamespot/features/pc/btg_ccgenerals/index)
Hopefully it'll be as fun as Red Alert2 and more realistic, the graphics look pretty sweet though :)
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Skaggs and Bonin discuss how they can make the game more like a Hollywood movie.
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I like the sound of that. I wanna see this. :)
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Yeah, I've seen that already. Actually, it's not westwood who does the thing, it's a newdevelopper that belonged to westwood (they made RA2 and yuri's revenge) ans split up. They stay in good terms it seems, they gave their 3D engine to westwood, westwood shared models, stuff like that.
What is disturbing with that game is that it's the third C&c universe... that begins to be quite a lot, after the tiberium and the red alert series...
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Hmm... Broken link. :confused:
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I hope they bring Kane back... ;) (Yuri was a bit of a Kane-wannabe IMHO :D)
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Originally posted by CP5670
I hope they bring Kane back... ;) (Yuri was a bit of a Kane-wannabe IMHO :D)
yuri is nowhere near as cool as kane :)
but no, no kane in this one, as I said, it's a different universe.
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US and China? Yeah right.
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Originally posted by PhReAk
US and China? Yeah right.
why not? Have you read the plot, at least? it happens in 25 years, and then China is supposed to have turned into quite a powerful country. And I trust the guys to make a good plot, they didn't just throw USA+China w/o a reason, obviously.
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Originally posted by Rampage
Hmm... Broken link. :confused:
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Didn't they come out with another C&C, like, two weeks ago?
This is shameless.
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try this link: http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/news/0,10870,2853879,00.html
by the looks of it, the game will be US vs. Terrorists vs China or Europe
(http://gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2002/pc/str/ccg/ccg_screen005.jpg)
wow.... :jaw:
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If "wow" is used in the sarcastic sense here, I wholeheartedly agree. The unholy offspring of SimCity 3000 and Tachyon fails to impress me thoroughly.
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Mmm... make that the bastardized American version of Earth 2150 disguised as the unholy offspring of SimCity 3000 and... well... Earth 2150. Or Emperor.
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
If "wow" is used in the sarcastic sense here, I wholeheartedly agree. The unholy offspring of SimCity 3000 and Tachyon fails to impress me thoroughly.
what the hell? it's a RTS!
Oh, yeah, you hate Westwood. remind me not to care about your opinion next time.
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If you remind me to reciprocate. I modified my opinion on a closer inspection, but it has little '2150 didn't, and that's ages old.
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I list:
WHAT THIS GAME'S GOT THAT THE FIRST MAJOR 3D RTSES DIDN'T:
Infantry (actually, some had this)
Properly done flyer contrails (easily done, but a waste and it gets in the way)
(apparently) tons of NPCs
The Westwood logo
Anything to add? Or is there some other reason I should be impressed?
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
I list:
WHAT THIS GAME'S GOT THAT THE FIRST MAJOR 3D RTSES DIDN'T:
Infantry (actually, some had this)
Properly done flyer contrails (easily done, but a waste and it gets in the way)
(apparently) tons of NPCs
The Westwood logo
Anything to add? Or is there some other reason I should be impressed?
if there's half the new stuff they put in RA2, yup.
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I hate the whole C&C Story lines they seem to dig out of there ass, every game its just the same damn units and same damn gameplay that makes it boring as hell.
And what kinda dumbass soldier stands in the way of a tank and gets run over?
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A contrived special effects one?
C&C has, I'll admit, some merits. At about 50000 versions, it damn well should. However, it isn't even close to being as cool as many of the less mainstream strats out there, and the "wow" factor of anything they do is hampered somewhat by the fact that
a. If they've got it, odds are they've had something that comes close in the last half-dozen games
b. If they've got it, it's an isolated goodie in what is essentially a series of tank rush games with all the strategy and mental challenge of hitting something with a hefty stick after traveling through a simple maze, then hitting it with a hefty stick while traveling through a simple maze with slightly more things to hit.
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Well Stryke just shut up and play this www.teridianshadow.com - that nice and tactical enough for ya? ;)
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
C&C has, I'll admit, some merits. At about 50000 versions, it damn well should.
Typical Westwood... flog an idea till it bleeds and begs for mercy...
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Originally posted by Setekh
Typical Westwood... flog an idea till it bleeds and begs for mercy...
I don't care about that new series or red alert, but I sure want the tiberium series to go on.
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The first Command & Conquer was simply awesome. It had it all- good story and campaigns, cool sides and units, good movies, good multiplayer, everything. RA was very good too but not as great as the original, and TS was good but could not really stand up to other games around its time. (should have been released about 2 years before its actual date) The same goes for RA2. If only they could make the next game as good as C&C was in its day...
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well, technically, generals seems up to date (tho the plane model is really too low poly -btw WTF? f22 raptor??? that's a f23 black widow damnit!-)
RA2 is not great technocally, but it has some very cool features and very original units. in Mplayer, tanks rushes just woudln't work I think (tho I've never tried it)
TS disapointed me, you can't even imagine, but firestorm made it much better (still not enough)
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Kamikaze: I like. I'm holding out for Earth 3, tho...
[WARNING: hardly anyone knows anything at all about the background to the following blather. I estimate 100 people total]
Zuxxez is really starting to annoy me a bit... they keep claiming they're gonna release E3, after Topware bombed... but how often, exactly, do companies scavenge game engines and even ****ING UNITS off of games they plan to release, and put them in other games?
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Originally posted by CP5670
The first Command & Conquer was simply awesome. It had it all- good story and campaigns, cool sides and units, good movies, good multiplayer, everything. RA was very good too but not as great as the original, and TS was good but could not really stand up to other games around its time. (should have been released about 2 years before its actual date) The same goes for RA2. If only they could make the next game as good as C&C was in its day...
I agree whole heartedly. :nod: The good ol' C&C is still probably my favorite, lol. Even if its only at like 800x600 res. ;)
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Originally posted by Ulala
I agree whole heartedly. :nod: The good ol' C&C is still probably my favorite, lol. Even if its only at like 800x600 res. ;)
lol, I have the dos version in VGA, and honestly, I prefer it that way, units are too tiny in 800*600 :p
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Originally posted by Stryke 9
Kamikaze: I like. I'm holding out for Earth 3, tho...
[WARNING: hardly anyone knows anything at all about the background to the following blather. I estimate 100 people total]
Zuxxez is really starting to annoy me a bit... they keep claiming they're gonna release E3, after Topware bombed... but how often, exactly, do companies scavenge game engines and even ****ING UNITS off of games they plan to release, and put them in other games?
I wanna play Earth 3 too :( Wonder where it went...
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yeah another great RTS game from Westwood incredibly inballanced... crappy grafixs all for the masses lets buy it the stamped C&C on it it must be good...
hear that thats wetswood zombies
*must have westwood games muuuuust have westwood games*:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
And now with new features lets rip of starcraft because we cant be original and must copy blizzard...
oh please:doubt:
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The ****ty thing about Westwood is that they think times haven't changed, and everyone still wants to play an archaic strategy game, years behind it's time. They just re-package it with new units and a new storyline, and ship the **** out.
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Originally posted by CP5670
The first Command & Conquer was simply awesome. It had it all- good story and campaigns, cool sides and units, good movies, good multiplayer, everything. RA was very good too but not as great as the original, and TS was good but could not really stand up to other games around its time. (should have been released about 2 years before its actual date) The same goes for RA2. If only they could make the next game as good as C&C was in its day...
:nod::yes: Agreed.
The first C&C was indeed amazing game, and RA was very good too. TS was average (with Firestorm :p better), RA2 was pretty average, too.
But there was a few other good games from Westwood, like Dune 2 and Dune 2000. I haven't played Emperor (or Renegade, but that's not RTS), and not excepting too much for Generals, we will see.
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I have a shakycam video (on my PC at work) of Generals in action (from E3 or something) and it looks sweet. Much better then Emperor.
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What's really sad about Westwood is that all of their RTS games are built on the same old crappy code as their first product. I have some experience with modding their games, and I know the basics of how each WW RTS works; they all run off of a rules.ini file (similar to a combo of ships.tbl and weapons.tbl), art.ini (stuff about graphics not contained within graphics files), and a few other very small configuration files. It is easy to see that the code is the same basically (all data formats are virtually the same, graphics work in the same ways, controls don't change, etc) from one game to another, but it gets really obvious when you open the rules files. I mean, there are tags in each ini that are from the old Dune 2 which have no context in command and conquer; the tags don't change from one game to another (with only a few modifications, the Tiberian Sun rules will work in RA2), and each game simply adds more crap on top of the old code. In short, WW games are as unoriginal as they come.
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Originally posted by Rampage
Hmm... Broken link. :confused:
Copy/paste and put ".html" behind it
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Originally posted by StratComm
What's really sad about Westwood is that all of their RTS games are built on the same old crappy code as their first product. I have some experience with modding their games, and I know the basics of how each WW RTS works; they all run off of a rules.ini file (similar to a combo of ships.tbl and weapons.tbl), art.ini (stuff about graphics not contained within graphics files), and a few other very small configuration files. It is easy to see that the code is the same basically (all data formats are virtually the same, graphics work in the same ways, controls don't change, etc) from one game to another, but it gets really obvious when you open the rules files. I mean, there are tags in each ini that are from the old Dune 2 which have no context in command and conquer; the tags don't change from one game to another (with only a few modifications, the Tiberian Sun rules will work in RA2), and each game simply adds more crap on top of the old code. In short, WW games are as unoriginal as they come.
what's the use of changfing stuff if it works fine? t's not like the games are slow or anything on the latest comps. I never heard anybody complaining about the quake series sharing (more or less) the same data files.
As for the game, it does look sweet and, for once, looks DIFFERENT. so wait and see.
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Mmm... might as well wait until the game comes out and the reviews too. But with WC3 out, maybe not (although I don't really like WC3 that much... why'd they dump sc2 for wc3?). But anyway, I'm goin to see LoTR: The Two Towers :P Trailer for it here (http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/the_two_towers/) . Looks pretty cool. Oh, damn.... It ain't gonna come out until Christmas... sigh... why'd they have to wait 12 months to release it when they'd already recorded em all. Never mind.
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Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning
Mmm... might as well wait until the game comes out and the reviews too. But with WC3 out, maybe not (although I don't really like WC3 that much... why'd they dump sc2 for wc3?). But anyway, I'm goin to see LoTR: The Two Towers :P Trailer for it here (http://www.apple.com/trailers/newline/the_two_towers/) . Looks pretty cool. Oh, damn.... It ain't gonna come out until Christmas... sigh... why'd they have to wait 12 months to release it when they'd already recorded em all. Never mind.
coz the actors part has been recorded, true, but they still had to do all the CGI work.
and i'd rather have WC3, 4 and 5 than SC2 :p
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and i'd rather have WC3, 4 and 5 than SC2
Well, anyway, at the end of the SC campaign missions they talk about the upcoming SC2... which they dumped. Hopefully now they finished WC3 they work on SC2.
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Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning
Well, anyway, at the end of the SC campaign missions they talk about the upcoming SC2... which they dumped. Hopefully now they finished WC3 they work on SC2.
I hope Blizzard Entertainment (http://www.blizzard.com) does come out with Starcraft 2. The story in Starcraft left us hanging as to what happened to Zeratul, Raynor and the state of the entire Koprulu Sector that is now under Zerg control.:)
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On the subject of sequels, I'd like to see Alpha Centauri 2, Heroes of Might & Magic IV. There's probably tons more games much in need of updating rather than the C&C series.
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Another thing I would like to see is Star Wars games set in the New Jedi Order series. How many want to try their hand at blowing up a Yuuzhan Vong coralskipper???:D
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Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning
Well, anyway, at the end of the SC campaign missions they talk about the upcoming SC2... which they dumped. Hopefully now they finished WC3 they work on SC2.
well, for now they're working on WOW, to my knowledge, blizzard never worked on more than two games at the same time, so you have a little chance that the next one is SC2.
Or maybe a completly new universe, since the "diablo" one is obviously closed now.
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Originally posted by venom2506
well, for now they're working on WOW, to my knowledge, blizzard never worked on more than two games at the same time, so you have a little chance that the next one is SC2.
Or maybe a completly new universe, since the "diablo" one is obviously closed now.
Obiviously!!! I've whacked Diablo's butt from this world!!! He;s history!!! Next better challenger please!!!
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
Obiviously!!! I've whacked Diablo's butt from this world!!! He;s history!!! Next better challenger please!!!
well, actually, Mephisto and Diablo in Diablo2, and Baal in the expension, so I guess this time it's definitively over.
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Yeah. Now my hero can sit back and relax until she dies.:D
By the way, does anybody know what's inside the limited Edition of Warcraft 3??? I heard there's a DVD inside.
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Relic would whup Westwood's arse. See the thing is, Relic is actually imaginitive! When they ship a game, it's something new! The two most original games were thier first, and the new one in development, the on-line RPG.
At first they were actually orignal, advancing the genre, now, they're forgotten, remembered only as a company releasing re-hashes of old games.
P.S. If that screenshot is true, it would be the first time one fighter could shoot down another, while actually moving, and not standing still!
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
Yeah. Now my hero can sit back and relax until she dies.:D
By the way, does anybody know what's inside the limited Edition of Warcraft 3??? I heard there's a DVD inside.
The game, the dvd with the cutscenes in all their glory *they'r :eek:*. commentaries about the game and stuff. There's also a cd with the music from the game too I think. I might get the collectors Ed. for this stuff.
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Originally posted by Unkown Target
P.S. If that screenshot is true, it would be the first time one fighter could shoot down another, while actually moving, and not standing still!
that's not true, they can do that in RA (the first, the second one I dunno ).
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So that means they degenerated even further with the later games, so :p:ha:
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Originally posted by Unkown Target
So that means they degenerated even further with the later games, so :p:ha:
I said I didn't know, I didn't say it was not like that :p
you could in TS too anyway, so I can't see why you couldn't in RA2.
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But in TS they just stood there, and this is how it went:
"Hi Bob"
"Hi Tom"
"Hey Bob, I just got an order to kill you, is now a good time?"
"Yea, that is so wierd, I just got the same order to kill you!"
"Wow! Talk about your twighlight zone! Well, I'm going to shoot first this time, ok?"
"Sure, take your time"
PPSSSSSEEEEEOOOOOWWWW!!!!
"Arlight, your turn"
PPPPPPHHHHHHSSSSSSHHHHHH!!!!!
"My turn?"
"Yep"
"Alright, here we go"
PPPPPPPSSSSSEEEEOOOOOWWWWW!!!!
Etc, etc, etc :p
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Bah, C&C series has been degenerating for long, I don't expect anything from the new one. The Best "clickety-click"-type RTS ever is the original Total Annihilation, I still play it on LAN with my friends. Of course with the TA unit compilation pack, which gives you like 200 new units. If you want tactics however, play Close Combat 2. Funny how the whole RTS genre hasn't really advanced at all in 6 years.
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I've done some pretty complex tactics with Homeworld. However, don't play it online, because all people there like to do is use the triple corvette wall.
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Originally posted by venom2506
As for the game, it does look sweet and, for once, looks DIFFERENT. so wait and see.
Well, it does indeed look pretty good, but I don't think that it looks that much different, except for graphics. Actually I don't see anything different in it, but maybe I have to wait and see.
Originally posted by Blitz_Ligthning
On the subject of sequels, I'd like to see Alpha Centauri 2, Heroes of Might & Magic IV. There's probably tons more games much in need of updating rather than the C&C series.
There is already Heroes of Might & Magic IV. And there indeed are a lots of games which need updating, but even for C&C it wouldn't be bad if it'd actually have much of new things, not a few.
Originally posted by Unkown Target
P.S. If that screenshot is true, it would be the first time one fighter could shoot down another, while actually moving, and not standing still!
Yeah, but that wouldn't be enough for me... for a new game. :headz:
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Yeah JUST had to mention those HERETCIS at ID Software and their Quake3 Unreal tournament wannabie cr:rolleyes: p
and RTCW was sooooooooooooo stagnated
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Originally posted by Bishop Gantry
hear that thats wetswood zombies
That's the sound of a four month old topic. :p
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Originally posted by venom2506
I said I didn't know, I didn't say it was not like that :p
you could in TS too anyway, so I can't see why you couldn't in RA2.
The only way aircraft could fire at one another in ANY CnC game is if they are targeted before they lift off. Choppers and the like have air to air capabilities, but in no WW game to date have actual aircraft been able to shoot at other actual aircraft. (Harpy in TS counts as an aircraft, jumpjet infantry counts as a helicopter-like unit. Screwy but true.)
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Originally posted by StratComm
The only way aircraft could fire at one another in ANY CnC game is if they are targeted before they lift off. Choppers and the like have air to air capabilities, but in no WW game to date have actual aircraft been able to shoot at other actual aircraft. (Harpy in TS counts as an aircraft, jumpjet infantry counts as a helicopter-like unit. Screwy but true.)
wrong: in RA: the yak and the mig, in TS, the banshee. all fly like fighters. and yeah, you have to target them before they lift off.
anyway, why are we arguing about that :confused:
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Generals may kick ass but The loyal C&C fans (like me) are waiting Tiberian Twilight. :)
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Originally posted by Ten of Twelve
Generals may kick ass but The loyal C&C fans (like me) are waiting Tiberian Twilight. :)
ditto.
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:wtf: This is one old topic...
I was quite a die-hard C&C fanatic many years ago and spent hundreds of hours modding both games. However, Westwood seems to be releasing a new sequel just about every year, none of which are really good in comparison to the others of their time, and I have lost the respect I once had for the company.
The Best "clickety-click"-type RTS ever is the original Total Annihilation, I still play it on LAN with my friends. Of course with the TA unit compilation pack, which gives you like 200 new units.
I agree there.
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Well from reading over the topic people seem to be forgetting one thing... Westwood created RTS..
Everyone seemed to be saying that Westwood just steals ideas and crap but Dune 2 for PC was the first RTS ever created. You can't call them unoriginal as they are the fathers of RTS's... Thank you...
I've played these other RTS's and though some have some good things about them they fall short in general gameplay. BTW, Total Annihilation sucked, IMHO
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Originally posted by Pera
The Best "clickety-click"-type RTS ever is the original Total Annihilation, I still play it on LAN with my friends. Of course with the TA unit compilation pack, which gives you like 200 new units.
:nod: :yes: :yes2: :nod:
Dune 2 - 9/10 (only main nitpick was inability to select more than one unit at a time)
C&C: Tiberian Dawn - 9.5/10
C&C: Red Alert - 6/10
Dune 2000 - 6.5/10
C&C: Tiberian Sun - 5/10
C&C: Red Alert 2 - 10/10
Emperor: BFD - 10/10
C&C: Renegade - 9/10 (only problem is the semi-blocky character models, although the online C&C-mode value is unbeatable :D )
TA: - 20/10 (the game, while completely lacking tactics, was by far the best RTS EV4R!! :p)
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Originally posted by betterthanyou
Well from reading over the topic people seem to be forgetting one thing... Westwood created RTS..
Everyone seemed to be saying that Westwood just steals ideas and crap but Dune 2 for PC was the first RTS ever created. You
true that is not, young padawan. before Dune2, Siege there was. and a Nintendo game, the name of which I cannot remember.
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Originally posted by venom2506
true that is not, young padawan. before Dune2, Siege there was. and a Nintendo game, the name of which I cannot remember.
Venom, you can't deny the fact the Westwood was an Instrumental Part™, a Key Player™, a Central Cog™ and the Big Cheese™ ( :lol: sorry, I couldn't resist... ) shaping RTSes into what they are today. Now, whether you blame them or praise them for that is up to you, but the fact remains that they played a Central Role™. :D
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Hmmm... well I don't really care central role or not, just whether the game's good or not :D
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Originally posted by sandwich
Venom, you can't deny the fact the Westwood was an Instrumental Part™, a Key Player™, a Central Cog™ and the Big Cheese™ ( :lol: sorry, I couldn't resist... ) shaping RTSes into what they are today. Now, whether you blame them or praise them for that is up to you, but the fact remains that they played a Central Role™. :D
I just pointed out that dune2 was not the first one :p
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Sigh...wonder when this whole Command & Conquer series involving GDI and NOD is ever going to end...
The story is getting lame.
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Originally posted by NeoHunter
Sigh...wonder when this whole Command & Conquer series involving GDI and NOD is ever going to end...
The story is getting lame.
There's 2 RTS featuring the nod and the GDI (Tibirian Dawn and Tib. Sun) , plus one mission pack for Tiberian Sun (her... Firestorm I think, don't remember the name, not the same in french) and one FPS (renegade). Nothing that bad if you ask me. Go complain about the starwars games, when the ratio is 1 good game for 5 ubber**** ones.
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In TIB SUN they turned KANE into a *censored* (yes the F word) Puppet