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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Rampage on March 13, 2002, 09:59:21 am

Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Rampage on March 13, 2002, 09:59:21 am
Vote and post your comments below.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: an0n on March 13, 2002, 10:11:54 am
The comm node.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Thorn on March 13, 2002, 11:08:48 am
Basilisk...
Slow, dumb, goes down easy...
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: CP5670 on March 13, 2002, 11:59:43 am
Definitely the Basilisk. It goes very slow and has armor made of paper.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Galemp on March 13, 2002, 05:16:14 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Thorn
Basilisk...
Slow, dumb, goes down easy...


Yeah, kind of like the original Herc. But wait, we love the Herc, don't we? Yeah, that's right. Hypocrites.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Zeronet on March 13, 2002, 05:25:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Definitely the Basilisk. It goes very slow and has armor made of paper.


Armour made of kleenex more like :)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: vadar_1 on March 13, 2002, 09:36:44 pm
You forgot the SFr Dis.... holy Sathanas wanna-be
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 13, 2002, 09:40:51 pm
But it is fun to kill :mad2:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: BlackDove on March 14, 2002, 04:27:29 am
SF Scorpion

That thing is bulky and just wants me to aim it :D:D:D:D
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Setekh on March 14, 2002, 04:57:15 am
Toss up between the Aeshma and the Basilisk... both are pretty poor. :D
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Black Wolf on March 14, 2002, 05:30:04 am
Who voted Dragon? That things an absolute legend!
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Rampage on March 14, 2002, 07:46:52 am
Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
Who voted Dragon? That things an absolute legend!


Whoever voted for the SF Dragon probably has a few wires missing.  But the Dragon has low secondary capabilities.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 14, 2002, 09:29:33 am
Your point being? I've seen it in FS dodge fire from at least 8 fighters for a full minute before I killed it.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Tar-Palantir on March 14, 2002, 09:48:43 am
In a dogfight, the Basilik is destroyed fairly easily. Although a wing of 'em against a freighter or the like and if they get into missile range it's generally goodbye freighter.

On the lighter side, the most useless Shivan craft has to the 'Sathanas in the distance' (can't remember its proper designation). Can't fire and at close range looks really bad!:D
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: LtNarol on March 14, 2002, 10:55:17 am
Quote
Originally posted by Tar-Palantir
In a dogfight, the Basilik is destroyed fairly easily. Although a wing of 'em against a freighter or the like and if they get into missile range it's generally goodbye freighter.

On the lighter side, the most useless Shivan craft has to the 'Sathanas in the distance' (can't remember its proper designation). Can't fire and at close range looks really bad!:D


Its there for a reason my friend, how do you think (V) got 87 sathanas in one mission without crashing it?  Becaues if you target the SJD Sathanas, it looks just like a normal sathanas on your hud.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Stunaep on March 14, 2002, 10:59:48 am
Hmmh.  There was no Moloch, and I did not have the heart to vote for the Basilisk :( (they're useful for getting kills), so I went for the Astaroth. Pump a harpoon into one, and its history. Interceptor my @$$
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Alikchi on March 14, 2002, 03:13:41 pm
Tie between Aeshma and Astaroth.
Someday I'm going to release my True Shivans mod..
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 14, 2002, 03:53:36 pm
Aeshma, without a doubt. Piece. Of . ****.


The Basilisk is, too, but it seems like it could kick ass with a human player at the controls (Herc II level, at least), and at the very least doesn't look like crap, like the Aeshma.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Kamikaze on March 14, 2002, 07:16:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Aeshma, without a doubt. Piece. Of . ****.


The Basilisk is, too, but it seems like it could kick ass with a human player at the controls (Herc II level, at least), and at the very least doesn't look like crap, like the Aeshma.


Hafta agree, the Aeshma is as visually attractive as a fat shivan making 'wuv to a fat zog.... sorry for the comparison :p
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Nico on March 14, 2002, 07:20:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol


Its there for a reason my friend, how do you think (V) got 87 sathanas in one mission without crashing it?  Becaues if you target the SJD Sathanas, it looks just like a normal sathanas on your hud.


excepted I think it was just a pcx :p
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Galemp on March 14, 2002, 08:25:07 pm
It was a PCX and 8 or so SJDs.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: LtNarol on March 14, 2002, 10:05:55 pm
but if you target a SJD Sathanas, it shows as a regular sathanas in the lower left corner of your hud, which was my point.  If there had actually been 87 sathanas in that mission, or even 10, the game would have lagged severely.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 14, 2002, 11:19:12 pm
Defintely the Basilisk....

Second of course would definitely be the Shiatan.  That thing is nothing more than an annoying target for me to blow to atoms.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 14, 2002, 11:59:49 pm
I think we need to arm the minisath and make it a fighter... with one big BFRed between the points!

Shivan miniaturization!
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: ARC_Shrike on March 15, 2002, 03:07:17 am
Astaroth <<< it goes down with a Pair of Harpoons without problems... that = Fail
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Setekh on March 15, 2002, 06:53:15 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
but if you target a SJD Sathanas, it shows as a regular sathanas in the lower left corner of your hud, which was my point.  If there had actually been 87 sathanas in that mission, or even 10, the game would have lagged severely.


It's an LOD trick...
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Night Hammer on March 15, 2002, 11:28:40 am
Manticore... little ***** that just runs away.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Liberator on March 19, 2002, 03:01:16 am
All of the ship in the poll have at least one redeeming characteristic, except the Aeshma.

The Aeshma does not mount the heavy weaps of the Mara or have the Missle capacity of the Basilisk, and it does not even come close to having the manuverability of the Dragon.

What was Volition thinking.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Kazashi on March 19, 2002, 09:08:51 pm
I'd have to say that the Basilisk generally comes across as the most useless Shivan fighter. It ends up being no more than cannon fodder when it makes an appearance....

...ok, all Shivan fighters end up being cannon fodder, the Basilisk just falls the easiest. :)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Galemp on March 19, 2002, 09:30:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Kazashi
...ok, all Shivan fighters end up being cannon fodder


You're only saying that because there are only two Shivan fighters we can fly, and they kick @$$. The other fighters are controlled by the AI, which sucks, so of course the ships are cannon fodder.

AI Hercs die easy too, but they're not 'cannon fodder' because most of the time they have a human pilot behind them. I think I made this point before, but everybody ignored me. :(
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Kazashi on March 19, 2002, 09:59:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor


You're only saying that because there are only two Shivan fighters we can fly, and they kick @$$. The other fighters are controlled by the AI, which sucks, so of course the ships are cannon fodder.


That much is true. It remains to be seen as to whether the Basilisk under human control would fall short of other human controlled Shivan fighters in the same way as with AI.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: CP5670 on March 19, 2002, 10:52:42 pm
The Nephilim and Seraphim are death machines as far as primary weapons go. The Nephilim has only one gun bank, but the bank has seven firing mounts. The Seraphim has three primary banks; a six-mount, a two-mount and a three-mount. Very impressive. Both bombers have two turrets and four secondary banks. The secondary banks on the Nephilim are really small and pitiful considering the size of the bomber, but the Seraphim's are about the same as the Ursa or Sekhmet.

The Dragon and Mara are probably the better Shivan fighters. (original Shivan versions) The Dragon has great primaries - a two-mount and a three-mount bank, powerful shields for its size and unmatched maneuverability. The Mara is simply good as an all-round ship, with very good speed/maneuverability, strong armor and shielding and big secondary banks.

One of the main problems with the Shivan ships is that all the Shivan primary weapons really suck and they use crappier versions of the same secondaries as the GTVA. The light laser fires fast compared to the other two but is still slower than the Subach and does little damage. The heavy laser does twice the damage but fires at less than half the speed, and overall performs about the same as the light. The mega laser does double that of the heavy (Kayser-type damage), but fires even slower, making it not much better. :p
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Slasher on March 19, 2002, 11:14:18 pm
Definitely the Aeshma.  Its rather large target cross-section is complemented nicely by its superbly sluggish manuverability and slower-than-molasses speed.  Has anyone else also noticed that the Shivans that pilot it tend to be rather dumb?  Maybe its for the mentally challenged Shivan's self esteem. :)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Kitsune on March 20, 2002, 01:47:00 am
It was a toss-up between the basilisk and the manticore.

They're both easy kills, singly or grouped.  

And nearly every fighter class that the shivans field has 100 hitpoints in armor.  Look in the tables.
It'll also show why dragons have such good manueverability.
They're one of the rare ships that can accelerate in a direction other than straight forwrard.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Nico on March 20, 2002, 07:22:59 am
There's no useless shivan crafts, there's helpless mission designers.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Stunaep on March 20, 2002, 07:29:58 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506
There's no useless shivan crafts, there's helpless mission designers.


Quite right
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Ulundel on March 20, 2002, 09:39:30 am
Whaaaaaat? Why's everybody stareing at me?
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: CP5670 on March 20, 2002, 10:11:12 am
Quote
There's no useless shivan crafts, there's helpless mission designers.


And bad shivan AI, of course. :D I bet a human pilot in a Basilisk could smash up everything. ;)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Nico on March 20, 2002, 11:14:56 am
right :)
Let me say it that way: I flew most of the shivan fighters when i was working for HT... well, the shivans ships owns, the manticore rules :)
the pb is, the shivan weapons suck.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Blue Lion on March 20, 2002, 01:26:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher
Definitely the Aeshma.  Its rather large target cross-section is complemented nicely by its superbly sluggish manuverability and slower-than-molasses speed.  Has anyone else also noticed that the Shivans that pilot it tend to be rather dumb?  Maybe its for the mentally challenged Shivan's self esteem. :)


 Agreed, Ashema's.  My little brother could take out a wing of them
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: kasperl on April 23, 2003, 12:26:19 pm
uh

*looks at dates*


:WTF:

oh, votebump, ok Free Terran (or if it'snot him, whoever voted this time), don't vote in old polls, it will bump them.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: FreeTerran on April 23, 2003, 12:27:58 pm
OK OK
I don't vote again in old polls.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Knight Templar on April 23, 2003, 01:04:07 pm
And this children, is why you always time out your polls :yes:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: kasperl on April 23, 2003, 01:06:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Free Terran
a shameless votebump


hey, i geussed right, howcould that be  :drevil:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on April 23, 2003, 03:50:17 pm
Reading throught this thread, I realized that you keep the Basilisk the worst. I am on the same opinion, just keep in mind you base your opinion(s) on a ship you haven't flown. Fighting against the Hercules meant less challange than the Basilisk, because the Herc blows up quickly compaired to the Basilisk, and I think they are at the same speed(I haven't had a look at the TBL) But you can fly the Herc, and you keep it even better than the Basilisk. What if you could fly the Basilisk? I am sure your opinion would change.

I am surprised nobody voted the Seraphim, or the Nephilim. I wouldn't fly any of them.
OH! I base my opinion on a ship I saw being flown only by the Ai. I would try it, and make my opinion based on that experience.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Sandwich on April 23, 2003, 04:49:16 pm
Quote
Originally posted by kasperl
uh

*looks at dates*


Funny, I didn't notice anything amiss - until I saw Setekh's posts in the thread. Then I looked at the dates. :p

Hmm... to close or not to close, that is the question, blah blah blah...
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: SKYNET-011 on April 23, 2003, 07:36:43 pm
Meh. Keep it open. :nod:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Blue Lion on April 23, 2003, 07:41:27 pm
Until we start spamming it, again. Then lock it.

Was there a most usless vasudan craft thread?
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: LAM3O on April 24, 2003, 12:25:27 am
The comm node of course, though i'm sure in freespace 3 we would have learned it is their most important.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Raptor on April 24, 2003, 12:24:42 pm
Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
One of the main problems with the Shivan ships is that all the Shivan primary weapons really suck and they use crappier versions of the same secondaries as the GTVA. The light laser fires fast compared to the other two but is still slower than the Subach and does little damage. The heavy laser does twice the damage but fires at less than half the speed, and overall performs about the same as the light. The mega laser does double that of the heavy (Kayser-type damage), but fires even slower, making it not much better. :p


You haven't seen my remade Shivan weapons....;7

For me, It's the Ashema.  It is worse than the Bailisk, by a long shot.  In fact, I hate it so bad I have banished it from my Ships.tbl file (makes room for other, better ships :thepimp: )
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: IceFire on April 26, 2003, 06:02:21 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Raptor


You haven't seen my remade Shivan weapons....;7

For me, It's the Ashema.  It is worse than the Bailisk, by a long shot.  In fact, I hate it so bad I have banished it from my Ships.tbl file (makes room for other, better ships :thepimp: )

Agreed...at least the Basilisk you can forgive because its from FS1 and it was a damned heavy nasty fighter.  With Avenger cannons, it did take several hits to knock down and its missiles were just brutal against freighters and transports.  But now with fancy Kayser cannons you can blast through em in two or three shots :)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: StratComm on April 27, 2003, 02:24:39 pm
No...  No more vote-bumping!  I've opened this thread three times thinking it contained something new but to no avail.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TrashMan on April 27, 2003, 02:30:12 pm
I re-did the Shivan weapons and ships...the Ashema rocks by me....The original sucked dough!
And the Basilisk is cannon fodder.... needed a little tuning...
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: kasperl on April 27, 2003, 02:36:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
No...  No more vote-bumping!  I've opened this thread three times thinking it contained something new but to no avail.


same thing here, this is getting,really, really annoying.

ah well, life sucks,doesn't it?
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on April 29, 2003, 12:10:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
I re-did the Shivan weapons and ships...the Ashema rocks by me....The original sucked dough!
And the Basilisk is cannon fodder.... needed a little tuning...


I also have my own TBL data, where Shivan weapons and ships are far better. In addition, I could edit the POF of the Basilisk, giving it two additional turrets, to make it as effective with lasers than the Herc Mk I.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: FreeTerran on April 29, 2003, 12:13:31 pm
I think the Mara is the best fighter of the shivans and the Seraphim the best bomber.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on April 29, 2003, 12:17:48 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Free Terran
I think the Mara is the best fighter of the shivans and the Seraphim the best bomber.


That's right, but I have doubts if the Seraphim is the best bomber, my personal subjective opinion prefers a more maneuverable one, like the Taurvi, or the Nahema.

I am still surprised nobody has voted the Nephilim yet.:blah:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: FreeTerran on April 29, 2003, 12:20:47 pm
My personal favorite bomber is the Tauvi too.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on April 29, 2003, 12:28:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Free Terran
My personal favorite bomber is the Tauvi too.


Would be good to be able to fly it. I open a new thread with the question 'How can I make a ship flyable?" in FS Modding section.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on April 29, 2003, 02:58:48 pm
Grrrrr....

Do. Not. Bump. Old. Threads.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on April 29, 2003, 04:38:57 pm
No need to worry, Petrarch! That thread is already closed. At least from my part.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Sandwich on April 29, 2003, 05:02:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
No need to worry, Petrarch! That thread is already closed. At least from my part.


:wtf:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Vandannski on April 30, 2003, 07:08:08 am
Voted Ashema,  mostly because its slow, gets capped with 2 'poons, doesnt do that much damage and is butt-ugly compared to say Mara or the Manticore.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Shiva Archon on April 30, 2003, 03:07:41 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


That's right, but I have doubts if the Seraphim is the best bomber, my personal subjective opinion prefers a more maneuverable one, like the Taurvi, or the Nahema.

I am still surprised nobody has voted the Nephilim yet.:blah:


The Nephlim's got some mean turrets on it that make it tough to kill in a Perseus.  The armor is strong enough to last a long time while the turrets cut you apart.

Nahama's are pretty easy to kill, but those suckers are fast...I've probably lost more ships to Nahemas than any other Shivan bomber.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: SadisticSid on May 01, 2003, 12:48:25 pm
The worst piece of junk in the Shivan arsenal has to be without a doubt the Shaitan. No wonder it never made an appearance in FS2. ;)

Sid.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: StratComm on May 01, 2003, 04:21:57 pm
Ok, since this topic has been bumped to current status now, I might as well throw in my opinions.  Canon shivan ships, it would have to be the Moloch.  It would be a complete piece of junk without the fighterbay, and :v: never used that in the main campaign anyway.  A waste of table space if you ask me.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Razor on May 02, 2003, 03:13:28 am
Sj sathanas.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Black Wolf on May 02, 2003, 04:30:05 am
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
Canon shivan ships, it would have to be the Moloch.  It would be a complete piece of junk without the fighterbay.


But It did have the fighterbay, didn't it? I wish there'd been a Terran, or even Vasudan vaient. Could have opened up masses of strategic situations. But as for the Moloch itself, I disagree that it's a poor ship - more to the point it was just used Poorly - imgine a Moploch jumps in right next to, say, an unescorted Deimos and launches Maras to disarm the Deimos. With decent AI, it's a practically guaranteed Shivan victory.

Could have used an LRed though...
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: killadonuts on May 03, 2003, 10:50:18 pm
I voted for the SF Aeshma.
This fighter is an example of a ship that is almost equal in firepower to the Basilisk but I think it has a weaker hull

Both ships will melt away in no time with a pair of Prometheus' (or even the HL-7)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: killadonuts on May 03, 2003, 10:53:12 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


That's right, but I have doubts if the Seraphim is the best bomber, my personal subjective opinion prefers a more maneuverable one, like the Taurvi, or the Nahema.

I am still surprised nobody has voted the Nephilim yet.:blah:


The Seraphim can be compared to the terran Ursa; it's very powerful but flies like a penguin

(and why am i about to get banned?)
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on May 13, 2003, 12:55:09 pm
Quote
Originally posted by killadonuts


The Seraphim can be compared to the terran Ursa; it's very powerful but flies like a penguin

(and why am i about to get banned?)


Penguins cannot fly:)
Das date ist 13rd May. Still no votes for the Nephilim!
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: kasperl on May 13, 2003, 12:56:22 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce


Penguins cannot fly:)
Das date ist 13rd May. Still no votes for the Nephilim!


ok, why the f*ck didthis get bumped?
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TopAce on May 13, 2003, 12:58:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by killadonuts
I voted for the SF Aeshma.
This fighter is an example of a ship that is almost equal in firepower to the Basilisk but I think it has a weaker hull

Both ships will melt away in no time with a pair of Prometheus' (or even the HL-7)


Aeshma is truly worse than the Basilisk. Saw the 'firepower trick' in the case of the Aeshma? It looks it has two cannons, but it has four, just one firing point is set for two lasers.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Petrarch of the VBB on May 13, 2003, 01:10:56 pm
Lock this before it is bumped again.
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: SKYNET-011 on May 14, 2003, 08:08:22 pm
Lock it please?
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: TrashMan on May 15, 2003, 05:41:05 am
No such luck....

But the Nephilm is tugh little bugar...:hopping:
Title: Most [Useless] Shivan Craft
Post by: Sandwich on May 16, 2003, 05:15:55 am
Fine, fine - thy salvation arriveth. ;)