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Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 03:20:00 pm

Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 03:20:00 pm
I have a slight problem with one of the models I'm creating for my campaign.  I created it in blender, saved it as DXF, and ran it from Rhino 3D.  It still worked then.  But when I looked at it in 3D Explorer, it suddenly was missing 4 faces.  I ran it again from Rhino, and it showed that all the faces were there.  But in 3D Explorer, it was still messed up! (And to prove this wasn't a freak error, when I converted it to POF, it was still missing faces.)
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Nico on March 23, 2001, 03:38:00 pm
maybe the faces are still there, but the normals have been flipped?

------------------
venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2
http://robotechlan.com/freespace2/

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign
http://shivancampaign.homestead.com/index.html

My own page:
http://shivancampaign.homestead.com/index.html
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 03:41:00 pm
The faces are still there, but backwards. I tried using the FLIP command in Rhino, but then more faces were backward than before. Is there any way to only flip certain faces?
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Nico on March 23, 2001, 03:51:00 pm
Well, sorry, I can't answer, I don't know Rhino

------------------
venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2
http://robotechlan.com/freespace2/

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign
http://shivancampaign.homestead.com/index.html

My own page:
http://shivancampaign.homestead.com/index.html
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 03:55:00 pm
If you can get Warlock to reply it will really help.  I know that he has Rhino.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Warlock on March 23, 2001, 05:16:00 pm
Yes you can flip faces one by one ,..just select the face and try the flip command.

Starting to sound like the model MIGHT have a few holes in it also  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/frown.gif)
If you still need help I might be able to get my editter to peek at it

------------------
Warlock
DeathAngel Squadron ("http://deathangelsquadron.net")
CO

Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon
Ghosts of the Past Forum ("http://pub10.ezboard.com/bdeathangelsquadronforum.html")
Ghosts of the Past WebSite ("http://deathangelsquadron.net/GhostsofthePast/ghostsofthepast.html")
To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.


We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Setekh on March 23, 2001, 05:22:00 pm
Flipping faces one by one? Faces, as in polys? Like, hundreds of them?  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/eek.gif)
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 07:05:00 pm
No, faces as in surfaces, Setekh.  Hey, Warlock, here's the model.  http://www.geocities.com/jdd1617/xcab1.zip ("http://www.geocities.com/jdd1617/xcab1.zip")  I zipped t up because I'm lazy and didn't want to wait for it to upload.

[This message has been edited by Grey Wolf 2009 (edited 03-23-2001).]
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Nico on March 23, 2001, 07:10:00 pm
hehe: faces=surfaces=polys (I always found the name poly weird for a face, but it's the way it is), so Setekh is right, greywolf  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

------------------
venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2
http://robotechlan.com/freespace2/

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign
http://shivancampaign.homestead.com/index.html

My own page:
http://shivancampaign.homestead.com/index.html
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 07:10:00 pm
Oh yeah, I recounted the surfaces.  There are 10 you can't see, and I can tell now they're definitely flipped because I can see the surfaces from the inside but not the outside.  I would have flipped them myself, but I'm still a rookie and the program was fighting with me.

Meesed up, there's 12 you can't see.  I missed the two on the back of the wings.

[This message has been edited by Grey Wolf 2009 (edited 03-23-2001).]
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 23, 2001, 07:15:00 pm
Well, I was confused.  He was saying hundreds of faces, but my model only has 35.  You understand?  And as I said before, even though I may not be a rookie to playing user-made campaigns and mods, I am a rookie at making them.

[This message has been edited by Grey Wolf 2009 (edited 03-23-2001).]
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Setekh on March 23, 2001, 09:14:00 pm
Sorry, I was thinking of most finished models. Even the Pegasus has 238 polys, and the Herc 2 has 494. And those are just fighters.  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Martinus on March 23, 2001, 09:34:00 pm
Ok Here's the problem, rhino won't flip the faces in this model because it's a polygon mesh, you need to convert it to a nurbs object first, select the model and press "direction" it will show you what faces point in which direction. Got it?

You might have some probs with polys that are back to back as well. (not completely sure about that one though).

Ummm, on closer inspection the mesh has holes in it and some "inside" faces, that is it has faces that are partially covered by other faces and might create problems.

[This message has been edited by Maeglamor (edited 03-23-2001).]
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Warlock on March 24, 2001, 12:13:00 am
*points up*

yuuuup

Another thing I noticed,..the "wings" for lack of a better term,...as thin as they are,.FS2 will boot it right out. I learned the same thing on my Alexandra class with the Conning tower's sensor array, too thin and FS2 crashes almost instantly in Tech or missions using the model.

------------------
Warlock
DeathAngel Squadron ("http://deathangelsquadron.net")
CO

Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon
Ghosts of the Past Forum ("http://pub10.ezboard.com/bdeathangelsquadronforum.html")
Ghosts of the Past WebSite ("http://deathangelsquadron.net/GhostsofthePast/ghostsofthepast.html")
To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.


We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2001, 06:58:00 am
*Points up*

The thing that Warlock said about the wings being too thin, he's right, they're not only too thin, they're 2D (not good!!) Also whatever way you built the model it will not "join" together, I can get a minimum of four parts unless I edit it.

Actually, here:  Fixed  ("http://www.maeglamor.freeuk.com/xcab1.zip")

It's in rhino format and the wings are a little thin but you might get away with it. Convert it using 3D explorer and I wouldn't worry about the poly count, it's going to be very low.

[This message has been edited by Maeglamor (edited 03-24-2001).]
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 24, 2001, 10:54:00 am
Hey thanks!  Originally, the wings were about what you edited them to, Maeglamor. I guess when I used the smooth command in Rhino it flattened them.  Oh yeah, for future reference, how do you convert a mesh to a NURBBS?  This way, if I mess up again I can fix it easier.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Starwing on March 24, 2001, 12:30:00 pm
Select the mesh and type the command "meshtonurb".

But using NURBS for game models is probably not the best idea. It's hard to keep the face count to an acceptable level while preserving the shape of the model. The transformation back to polygon mesh can do ugly things to your model.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2001, 09:35:00 pm
Yeah nurbs don't equal low face counts, rhino doesn't have the best mesh converter anyway. I convert all of my models to 3DSmax format and simplify them.

I'm pretty sure 3D exploration has problems converting nurbs models as well.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 24, 2001, 10:04:00 pm
Then what did you do when fixing the Excalibur?
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Martinus on March 25, 2001, 10:05:00 am
I basically rebuilt it from scratch  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)
It wasn't too complicated a model and it saved a lot of time.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 25, 2001, 10:21:00 am
What program did you use to rebuild it? (Please don't say TS. I suck  at it and the tutorial about it on VW made no sense. Just wondering, does anyone have a good tutorial on texturing in TS?)
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Starwing on March 25, 2001, 01:00:00 pm
What Truespace do you have?
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Grey Wolf on March 25, 2001, 01:31:00 pm
I have a limited budget so all I have is TS2 Trial.  It really sucks and you can't save objects, only scenes.  If anyone has something better to use for free, tell me.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Martinus on March 26, 2001, 05:49:00 pm
I used Rhino.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Warlock on March 27, 2001, 09:19:00 am
Grey,..TS2 is out as a full free program now. I think it's available on TS's main homepage.

least this way you can save objects not just scns  (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/smile.gif)

------------------
Warlock
DeathAngel Squadron ("http://deathangelsquadron.net")
CO

Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon
Ghosts of the Past Forum ("http://pub10.ezboard.com/bdeathangelsquadronforum.html")
Ghosts of the Past WebSite ("http://deathangelsquadron.net/GhostsofthePast/ghostsofthepast.html")
To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.


We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Starwing on March 27, 2001, 09:33:00 am
caligari.com still states a prize of $49 for TS2. You can download it, but not free.
Title: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: firehawk777 on April 02, 2001, 03:19:00 am
If there really is a free version of ts2 then I would love to know where.
Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 20, 2008, 10:43:22 am
I could really use a decent converter too.
I find mesh modeling in Rhino so much better than any of these other programs.
Its just a great rapid prototyping tool.
I just want something to help convert it to cob/pof for texturing and animations then for finalizing.
Is there anything ouyt there not requiring a zillion bucks for a simple conversion?
Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 20, 2008, 11:37:46 am
:necro:

(Sorry. My first time actually firing the beam around here.)

What about TS3.2 (since it's free now anyway)? I'm not a modeller but ugh, the cob/scn formats do get annoying... no surprise why most people don't fancy TS a lot...
Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Mobius on March 20, 2008, 11:40:16 am
Geez...new record! :eek2:

*lock*
Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 20, 2008, 03:19:29 pm
OK TS3.2 all I saw was *.scn for the file outputs?
Is there an export function there as well?
I'll check it out. Thanks.
And heck yeah I'll toss a post in the microwave to make it feel lifelike  :lol:
Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: Getter Robo G on March 20, 2008, 03:35:34 pm
Holy crap I thought Greywolf and Nico were back...!

AFAIK only 3dsmax is workign on a plugin for exporting direct to .pof

all other programs need to export to .cobs cause that's what all three of teh communitie's converters use as teh standard 3d format to make a game model (.pof)

Hope that helps. (maybe official Rhino forums can help you?) Rhino and c4d users, are kinda exotic for around here :)

Most use: Blender, Wings, Sketchup, 3dsmax, and of course TS.

I hope you get those issues solved though so we can see you works.

Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: asyikarea51 on March 20, 2008, 03:41:49 pm
OK TS3.2 all I saw was *.scn for the file outputs?
Is there an export function there as well?
I'll check it out. Thanks.
And heck yeah I'll toss a post in the microwave to make it feel lifelike  :lol:

:doubt: it'll only save scenes to .scn and .wrl, objects to .cob, .asc, .dxf... some old DirectX format too or something. Doesn't explicitly say export... I don't think it has a proper export function of sorts.

Some of the people around here will tell you to avoid the 3ds max POF exporter, but my only run-in with it was with bad shield meshes at the final POF (for fighters, that is). Hope that's worth something.
Title: Re: Need Modeler To Figure Out What's Wrong.
Post by: KewlToyZ on March 20, 2008, 04:32:04 pm
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,996.msg14955.html#msg14955 (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,996.msg14955.html#msg14955)
There we go.
I'll give these a shot.
I just want the least problematic process and wondered if someone had already figured out the wheel.
They have, its just been awhile since someone asked. All of the help sites people had posted on it are dead too.