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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zeronet on March 16, 2002, 01:45:13 pm

Title: ISD,SSD models
Post by: Zeronet on March 16, 2002, 01:45:13 pm
Anyone know where i could download some? Im also looking for a lower poly version of a ISD, around 2000 polys.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Stunaep on March 16, 2002, 02:40:04 pm
There's an ISD in VolitionWatch Archives. I'll see if I can locate  a link.

Here (http://archives.volitionwatch.com/fs1/mods/packs.php3)  it is. Download the Terran-Vasudan Alliance mod pack, it contains and X-Wing, a Tie-Fighter and an ISD. You'll have convert them to FS2 format though.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Stryke 9 on March 16, 2002, 02:45:01 pm
ISD?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 16, 2002, 02:50:14 pm
ISD= Imperial-class Star Destroyer

SSD= Super Star Destroyer

Hey, who's read those New Jedi Order Series books? I've read a couple of them and they ROCK ASS! :) :nod:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: CODEDOG ND on March 16, 2002, 03:16:13 pm
KMN made an ISD for Fs2 i used to have it ask him.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Jabu on March 16, 2002, 03:20:34 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Hey, who's read those New Jedi Order Series books? I've read a couple of them and they ROCK ASS! :) :nod:


All NJO books are pretty crap, actually. I can understand artistic liberties but some of those authors are taking it just a tad too far...
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 03:35:55 pm
i agree its been taken to far aswell - main complaints are the vong armour being resistant to lightsabres - never going to ahppen lightsabres cut through anything - other complains are what the hell happened to the fleet? the new repulic seesm to have decomissioned rather large number of warships hell they are lucky if they can find 1 ISD and there used to be hundreds in ever sector admitable during the imperial rule but if they had that many the nr should ahve that many to to inforce peace

and not acaully njo fault they never would have decomisioned the lusanka it was the most powerful ship in the NR fleet and tell me they couldn't use an SSD against the vong

and yup i still have the isd model but dont have the tables for it anymore and it not exactly brilliant it was the first capital ship i ever made for freespace
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 03:36:55 pm
oh another complain against the NJO books - they killed chewy and he was the best charater
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: CODEDOG ND on March 16, 2002, 03:39:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
oh another complain against the NJO books - they killed chewy and he was the best charater


Yea I read that one!  F*****!!!!!!
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 16, 2002, 04:08:06 pm
Quote
(Originally posted by KillMeNow): i agree its been taken to far aswell - main complaints are the vong armour being resistant to lightsabres - never going to ahppen lightsabres cut through anything - other complains are what the hell happened to the fleet? the new repulic seesm to have decomissioned rather large number of warships hell they are lucky if they can find 1 ISD and there used to be hundreds in ever sector admitable during the imperial rule but if they had that many the nr should ahve that many to to inforce peace


KMN, The Empire only maintained soo many ships so that it could keep the galaxy under its thumb through threat of force. The New Republic realized that to maintain the peace, it doesn't need nearly so many ships. In fact, that was one of the Rebels' main complaint with the Empire: Palpatine made many more ships than he needed to simply "maintain the peace" and created such a large fleet simply to keep everyone in line through terror. The reason the New Replic decommissioned all those ships was because it was too expensive to keep them running when the galaxy was not at war. And remember, the New Republic had already signed a peace treaty with the Empire Remnant six years before the Vong invaded and no one knew the Vong were coming to invade then.

Wow, it seems ALOT of people here don't like the NJO books. Me, I enjoy them immensely. Yeah, killing off Chewie was a blow, but in my mind, he always seemed like the most insubstantial character. He was always just there and didn't really do much of anything in the other books. (The movies were a different story, but I'm only talking about the non-NJO books.)

The whole storyline about the Jedi being thrown into disarray because of the appearance of the Yhuuzhan Vong and their "invisibility" to the Force is a VERY nice touch in my opinion. Before the Vong, all the foes the Jedi faced throughout their history all were connected to the Force in some way. Examples include the Sith, fallen Dark Jedi, the Massassi and others. Even the Empire fits this description when you take Darth Vader and the Emperor into account; they were Force-users as well and they were the heart of the Empire. And don't forget about the Emperor's Hands and Inquisitors and other Dark Jedi types that worked for the Empire.

But the Vong are different. Because they are from outside the Galaxy, they also seem to be outside the Force as well. This makes them more dangerous to the New Republic and the Jedi than any "home-grown" enemy could ever be. And since the Vong are "outside" the Force, it actually makes sense that their armor and weapons would be impervious to lightsabers, which are Force-weapons.

This is a storyline that I've been waiting years to see because for the first time, the survival of the Jedi (at least as they have been throughout history) is thrown into real doubt. Certainly, the Jedi are never going to be the same; to confront the Vong, the Jedi will have to change.

And with the Jedi split into two opposing camps (a passive one led by Luke Skywalker and an aggressive one led by Kyp Durron, one of Luke's most powerful students), enormously important questions arise: Can the Jedi afford to remain only passive defenders in the face of the Vong threat? If the galaxy is too survive, doesn't that mean resorting to tactics that would be considered morally questionable? If the inhabitants of the New Republic are being exterminated, doesn't that mean that the Jedi have to do everything they can to save them, even if engaging in aggressive behavior risks falling to the Dark Side? Can the Jedi afford not to take that chance?

The Vong despoil whole planets by the day and routinely sacrifice the New Republic's citizens by the thousands. Many Jedi in Kyp's faction feel that they can't just sit idly by and let this happen; they know they have to take the fight back to the Yhuuzhan Vong. The cost of fighting a defensive war is just too high.

Kyp even sums it up nicely in the novel Edge of Victory: Rebirth:

"There's a pit on Dantooine. I've seen it. It's two kilometers across and full of bones."

This pit Kyp refers to is the result of hundreds of thousands of sacrifices of sentient beings to the Yhuuzhan Vong gods taking place on the planet Dantooine alone. These sacrifices are taking place on all the worlds that Yhuuzhan Vong have captured. Who wouldn't become enraged by the fact that your fellow citizens are being slaughtered by the millions?

Osama bin Laden killed 3000 people on American soil and started a war we didn't want. The Yhuuzhan Vong killed many more and brought a war the New Republic didn't want. In our case, we have to resort to tactics we'd rather not do, but we do anyway because it was forced on us. It's the same with the Kyp Durron and the Jedi who follow him.

Come to think of it, I see a number of parallels between the Yhuuzhan Vong and the al-Queda terrorists...

Here's a tough question for you all: In order to stave off the extinction of your people, will you risk falling to the Dark Side?

I would. And without a moment's hesitation, too.

And with Chewie's death, we realize that no major character is safe from death. This is war, after all, and people die in war. This is reinforced after another major character dies in the novel Star By Star. (I'm not going to say which one dies; that you can find out by reading the novel if you haven't already.)

I can't wait to read the forthcoming NJO books. This storyline is going to continue until 2004 at least. WHOO HOO! :D :nod: :)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Zeronet on March 16, 2002, 04:15:50 pm
17 megs?! I dont need them for FS, just Truespace doesnt like high poly ships sometimes, do you know of any smaller files that contain ISDs?
Title: RE: NJO
Post by: Ryx on March 16, 2002, 04:29:59 pm
Mainly, It's a tad depressing.
Regardless of the ending, it always seems the Y.V. wins the day. That's ok for a couple books, but after 9(?) books...

Frustrating...
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 04:32:04 pm
i am enjoying the NJO books too but i wouldn't have killed chewy and lightsabres aren't force weaponsthey are weapons perfected by the force - the companetents combined by the power of the the force but the weapon doesn't channel the force its just a energy blade remember lightsabers need to be kept charged up from time to time but they do hold there charge along long time becasue of the force creation they are very effeicent weapons

and while yes they dont need a fleet like they used to have during the emipre but as someone said if you want peace prepare for war simple rules to live by and would have saved the repulic an asswhipping - i cant help[ but feel the galaxy is wishing palpatine was still in power he wasn't nice but aslong as you behaved he didn't torture you etc etc infact palpatine goal was a galaxy of peace he jsut used force and the force to enforce it lol

yup the empire would have long since squased the vong jaina should have stayed with the dark side just abit longer and gone ona  vong hunt hurling lighting at them or that force grid that dark jedi used to kill the vong jailer hehehe yup the vong might be a match for jedi but not dark jedi

darth vader is my hero lol
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 04:32:57 pm
yeah i agree its long past time the vong got an ass whipping
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 16, 2002, 04:39:31 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
yeah i agree its long past time the vong got an ass whipping


Oh, that ass-whupping is coming very soon. KMN, if you know that Jaina nearly fell to the Dark Side, then you also know that the Vong are starting to consider her as the "reincarnation" of Yun-Harla, and that is going to seriously screw with the Vong more than any loss of battle...

And if any of you are reading this and don't know what I'm talking about, go read the newest NJO novel Dark Journey. It occurs right after Star by Star.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 04:48:35 pm
yes the vong might be abit concerned with jaina but the NR is gone - courcsant has fallen and the vast majority of the NR fleet is destroyed - decoisioned or buggered off to protect there home system. who other than Jaina is goign to do the ass whipping over half the jedi have to have been killed already. they need to find an stash from palpatines day of say hmmm couple of death stars to stand a chance now and the NR is so stupid they would think the weapons immoral and destroy the buggers instead of using them to wipe every vong infested planet out of ezistance then go see how long vong dovin basal can stop a death star super laser

hell booster teric almost has as much firepower as the whole new repulic together now - just curious but when did he get the errant venture rearmed?

ahhhhhhhh well i hope your right and the vong get there asses whipped soon
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Ryx on March 16, 2002, 05:01:56 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp


And if any of you are reading this and don't know what I'm talking about, go read the newest NJO novel Dark Journey. It occurs right after Star by Star.


I just ordered it :nod:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 16, 2002, 05:53:52 pm
anyone know where i can get an ImpStar II?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 05:55:12 pm
for freespace/ - its the deuce i did or its supposed to be not a great deal of difference between the two but its big and packing 80 turrets
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 16, 2002, 06:39:40 pm
well, last i checked, the deuce has about twice the turrets, could be wrong though.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 16, 2002, 08:01:31 pm
The New Republic deserves to die.  It can't bloody well prosecute a war against the YV, even with the leftoevers of the empire.

Why not go to KDY and say 'Hey, we're getting our asses kicked, how about building a few hundred ISD-IIs for us?'

See, it started with the Zahn series, showing how wimpy the NR really was.  200 dreadnoughts - obselete heavy cruisers - was a significant force.

Hell, the Imperial fleet at Endor could probably have easily taken the Katana fleet.

And the NR just got wimpier as time progressed.  Sure they're peaceful, but don't gut your midochlorian-be-damned military because of it!
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 16, 2002, 08:10:05 pm
Dreadnaughts are not obsilete, just old.  They were still used in many backwater fleets and 200 of them is a lot of firepower.  One to one with other ships, they sucked the big one, but in numbers, you just cant go wrong.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 16, 2002, 08:23:29 pm
Yeah, and the Empire had 25,000 Star Destroyers........ alone.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 16, 2002, 08:46:42 pm
25000?  i seriously doubt that many, not considering the shear scale of those ships and how long it takes to construct one.  Think of each as an orion class destroyer, does the GTVA have that many orions?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 16, 2002, 08:48:05 pm
Uhh, the GTVA doesn't have a million worlds.

In fact, on a world/system number, the GE has some VERY low ship numbers.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 08:56:47 pm
i not sure on the how big a secotr is but i think at the empires hight a secotor fleet consisted of 200 ISD's  mixtuer of mark ones and 2 - the 1's being slowy pahsed out plus all the support ships - probally an equal number of carracks - afew intradictors maybe afew lancers and 1 SSD

now if there are 25000 ISD's then your looking at 125 sectors
 thats;

25000 isd's
25000 carracks
250 intradictors
500 lancers
125 SSD

50875 total capital ships
god knows how many fighters probally millions if you include the planetary garissons
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 16, 2002, 09:15:00 pm
i hadnt realized that there were so many SSDs, i was under the impression that there were 2, the Executer and the Lusankya
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 09:17:15 pm
nope listent o han solo as the approach the executor - lukes saying vaders on that ship adn han say something liek dont get jittery luke there are hundreds of command ships
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 16, 2002, 09:18:39 pm
No, he says there's 'lots' of command ships.

Supposedly, by the battle of Hoth, there were 4 completed.  The Executor was the first.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 09:21:36 pm
i'm of the opinion there are lots - han said its a command ship that makes it logical there is one in every sector and if they can build a fully fuction deathstar in 4 years they can churn out SSD very fast indeed hell the can probally make an ISD in a month
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 16, 2002, 09:22:12 pm
either way lots is more than 4
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Vertigo1 on March 16, 2002, 10:58:45 pm
The only thing I don't get is why they pussified Luke?  I mean, the old Luke would've gladly taken the war to the Vong and shoved their dovan basils right up their asses and then some.  Where are all the ships the Imps had?  Surely they weren't all taken apart and sold for scrap, and I seriously doubt the Peace Brigade has them all....
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Kitsune on March 16, 2002, 11:27:35 pm
Lightsabers had JACK to do with the force guys.

Go here and get a better summary of it.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres4.htm
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 17, 2002, 12:39:30 am
i dont seem to recall anyone mentioning lightsabers :D
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Ace Pace on March 17, 2002, 01:10:13 am
there was vaders ship, The Lusankya, and I forgot the rest but you are forgeting:

ECLIPSE CLASS! :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 17, 2002, 01:21:47 am
Quote
Originally posted by Ace Pace
there was vaders ship, The Lusankya, and I forgot the rest but you are forgeting:

ECLIPSE CLASS! :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:


Ace Pace is NOT lying; the Eclipse-class Super Destroyer (it appeared in one of the Dark Horse Star Wars comic books) was HUGE!!!!

I highly doubt that a sector fleet has 200 ISD in it. A dozen I would believe but not 200. If the Imperial fleet was THAT huge, the Rebel Alliance would have been crushed in a matter of weeks.

I can believe the entire number of ISDs in the Imp fleet being 25000, but I think the Galaxy had WAY more than 125 sectors in it, thus diluting the number of ISDs in a single sector fleet.

And according to the SW role-playing books, no more than 8 SSDs were constructed; this MIGHT include the Luyskanya.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Ace Pace on March 17, 2002, 01:29:06 am
more info on it direct from the guide :

17.5 K long.
solid black.
"in combat the Eclipse's hull and shields were so strong that it could ram enemy vessels without hesitation"
10 grav well projectors.
500 heavy lasers
550 turbolasers
50 squadrons (12 each) TIE interceptors (600!)
8 squadron of TIE bombers.
super laser that destorys the crust of planets.
5 prefabricated basses
100 AT-AT
700,000 being crew
150,000 troops

also don`t forget the Star Destroyers MK3 (with grav wells)
and the Vong Warship

how do I add pics?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2002, 05:34:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
nope listent o han solo as the approach the executor - lukes saying vaders on that ship adn han say something liek dont get jittery luke there are hundreds of command ships


*cough**cough*
Why by command ship do you assume SSD? Vader is in an ISD in the first movie :p
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 07:36:22 am
we assume SSD from command ship becasue it was an  SSD they were flying right in front off when han refered to it as a command ship

and just cause vader was in an ISD in the firstfilm perhaps his own ship was away elsewhere and the closes ship in the area was an ISD so i flew over in his tie advanced to quickly intercept leia

as for the 200 isds a sector i read that in one of the novels cant remember which one - and its widely excepted that the imperial fleet had 25000 isds in it
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 17, 2002, 07:44:24 am
ok, do the math, a quarter million ISDs, 125 SSDs, and counless smaller ships like carracks and lancers, the rebelion wouldnt have lasted past the first few days.  The imperial fleet was huge, no doubt, but not that big.

Command ships, how does that necessarily mean SSD?  It could be other ships as well.  Now that i think of it, i can name 2 more SSDs:  Iron Fist, and Razor's Kiss

As for the Eclipse, what did you expect?  It is after all the emperor's personal flagship after he returned.  You're talking about a man who commanded 2 deathstars.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 07:55:40 am
25000 isd's not 250000
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 07:58:13 am
and jsut to clarify the rebelion was fighting a guirilla war - engaging the imperial fleet directly would be suicide - remember mon months speach on the home one - with the imperial fleet spread across teh galaxy in a vain attemp to engage us - the rebellion hid from the empire thats why therye weren't crushed - the picked there battles and only engaged when they had superior forces
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 07:59:31 am
oh one other thing the emperor never commanded the first death start that was grand moff tarkin
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2002, 08:28:31 am
you'd need quite a lot of centers to train the billions of billions of people needed to crew all those ships and fighters :p
How many dudes on just one ISD?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 08:43:15 am
i think its about 150,000 people on one isd =) what can i say the emipre is huge they do have the population of effectivly an entire galaxy to recruit from
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 17, 2002, 08:49:17 am
and then the rebelion became the NR and started to hold worlds against the GE.  Tarkin was in direct control, but the Emperor was also behind it.  And as big as the empire is, keep in mind that not every star has planets, and not every planet has life, much less intelegent life.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 08:56:33 am
yes but most do in the star wars galaxy and i the only reason the NR mananged that was because all the fleet admirals buggered off decleared themselfves warlords if the epire hadn't fractured after the emperoros death the new repulic would have been crushed
Title: Killme now
Post by: Ace Pace on March 17, 2002, 09:10:40 am
About vaders flag ships in the new hope IT was an ISD ( the SSD wasn`t even tought of) and it was the devestator.

about crews Mark 1 had 38,000 crews and MK2 48,000 crew.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: LtNarol on March 17, 2002, 10:23:02 am
The "Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels" clearly states that the Executer was Vadar's flagship.  And why are we arguing so much over something that doesnt really matter?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Ace Pace on March 17, 2002, 10:48:02 am
because before it was it was the ISD devestator
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 10:52:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
And why are we arguing so much over something that doesnt really matter?
Cause it's fun?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2002, 11:09:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol
The "Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels" clearly states that the Executer was Vadar's flagship.  And why are we arguing so much over something that doesnt really matter?

and vecause your guisde has been said many times to be crap, for exemple for the size of a SSD.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 11:11:33 am
Except that in this case, the Executor was Vader's flagship.  :rolleyes:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Ace Pace on March 17, 2002, 11:13:28 am
its okey its A 8 KM ship and thats what writin.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Ace Pace on March 17, 2002, 11:14:26 am
yes exept in that case he anyway has a shield enquipt TIE interceptor
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 17, 2002, 11:14:55 am
Well to add to all the comments bout the NJO era. The main effect in the plot as been to completely change the "old hat" that SW novels have ALWAYS had. That being the good guys ALWAYS win. EVERY other series before you got half way through you basically knew what they'd have to do to "win the day".

And actually the Vong have last a few battles b4 Dark Journey. Just not many. But that's the point. There's a complete difference with this enemy. The NR knows NOTHING about them from the start. With the emps they at least new basic drives and fears.

As far as ligthsabers effecting Vong armor. :

1: Lightsabers have never been able to cut ANYthing. Cortis ore, saber hits that and Pfft fizzel, deactivated.

2: Sabers CAN slice vong armor, at its weak points. The NJO era Jedi have never had to deal with 'aiming' a swing, it's always been just make contact ANYwhere on the opponant and cut something.

As far as the Force and the vong. It would nearly cripple a jedi in saber combat because use of a saber relies heavily on the ablity to predict an enemy's next move. And the vong's lack of being within the force actually makes alot of since, being a race from a completely new galaxy itself and not just some far off corner of the current galaxy.


As for fleet resources:

1: The NR still HAD a sizeable fleet at the time of Vector Prime. The reason they don't by Dark Journey is simple, they never committed the full fleet in a battle. Thousands of smaller engagments slowly destroyed the majority of the fleet.

Bout Luke. He's been through ALOT of changes of heart and mind since the trilogy. He's tried to live by the old code (that much which he's learned) and NOT use the force for attack. True that may be a flawed logic, if you think about it he's misunderstanding for several reasons:

After the first attack in a war, you're fighting a defense. Sith war, thousands of Jedi ATTACKED Exan Kun's fleet and last base on Yavin. But this was after the Sith first assualted the known galaxy. But Luke hardly has many records of Jedi history.

Also,..the jedi code has never before had to deal with anything remotely close the the Vong invasion. I think even Yoda would make a few changes by now.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 11:15:44 am
Actually, it's supposed to be 11 miles - 17.6 km - long, going by a direct scaling of the bridge tower.  The West End guys didn't do their homework.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 11:59:18 am
just what i was about to say - super star destroyers are monstrous beasts
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 12:07:34 pm
ok yes cortois ore can stop lightsabre but the vong dont know that - but other than the ore and other lightsabres and forcefields nothing stops lightsabre

as for the NJ fleet they could concentrate whats left into 2 or three fleets and stop with the defensive action thats no way to win a war they should use bold offensives and drive the vong from teh planets they ahve captured they need to get hte vong to protect there planets so diverting there fleet from offensive operations to defensive ones thus turning the tide of the battle

a purely defensive strategy only works when you have overwhelming technical superiority - and the attacks are just an inconvince until you swat them

they really need to learn from good old emperor palpatines book - those vong are lucky they didn't arive 30 years earlier
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Galemp on March 17, 2002, 12:14:04 pm
I don't care about the extended universe. Except for the part where I get cloned. ;7

The ISD Devastator was Vader's command ship until the SSD Executor was constructed. His personal fighter was not a shielded T/I, but the T/A x1- TIE Advanced x1 prototype. The T/A had a limited production history, but most of the resources were put into the TIE Interceptor. So there. :p
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2002, 12:16:45 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Ace Pace
its okey its A 8 KM ship and thats what writin.


ok, watch return of the jedi or empire strikes back, a compare the SSD with the ISD next to it. now come back and tell me if you found 8km. It's at least twice longer , like Shrike says.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 17, 2002, 12:36:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
ok yes cortois ore can stop lightsabre but the vong dont know that - but other than the ore and other lightsabres and forcefields nothing stops lightsabre
[/i]


In THIS galaxy that would be true. Who knows WHAT a lightsaber would cut through in the Vong home galaxy. You have to keep that in mind, this enemy is 155% NOTHING like ANYthing dealt with before. Even the use of bioweaponry, yes the NR has seen that before,..but nowhere near the scale AND always......ALWAYS dealing with the biology of THEIR galaxy. How do you know the crab armor doesn't just happen to contain which ever exact element in Cortis ore that renders lightsabers ineffective?  



Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow

as for the NJ fleet they could concentrate whats left into 2 or three fleets and stop with the defensive action thats no way to win a war they should use bold offensives and drive the vong from teh planets they ahve captured they need to get hte vong to protect there planets so diverting there fleet from offensive operations to defensive ones thus turning the tide of the battle

a purely defensive strategy only works when you have overwhelming technical superiority - and the attacks are just an inconvince until you swat them

they really need to learn from good old emperor palpatines book - those vong are lucky they didn't arive 30 years earlier


With WHAT would they attack ? The fleet's been nearly wiped out. Even most of the Hapan fleet was vaped by mistake. And you NEVER.........EVER go on an extreme offesnive without knowing you're enemy's strengths and weaknesses. Which they are JUST now learning.

Before everyone starts into the whole "OMG it's just wrong that the vong are just whipping NR butt the entire time waaa waa" keep something in mind. The Sith War started the same exact way, they pushed all the way to Corscuant in ONE offensive. The Empire nearly did the same to start. This is the first major war in the novels that wasn't completed in 3 books :) Besides the NR could have done alot better had they not first disbelived the Vong invasion was real, and then expected they could deal with them diplomactically. That's like thinking "Ohhh palpy isn't really evil, let's offer him a few planets and he'll stop with that."

:D


And while i know this isn't FS2 related i'm really enjoying this thread, I've yet to miss a NJO book and it's nice to be able to get into a chat about it without ppl throwing up "No spoilers!!!!"  LOL
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 17, 2002, 12:38:06 pm
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506


ok, watch return of the jedi or empire strikes back, a compare the SSD with the ISD next to it. now come back and tell me if you found 8km. It's at least twice longer , like Shrike says.


Actually the new RPG ships guide is more correct with stating a SSD to be 8 TIMES the length of an ISD. Which is more on par to the scenes in Empire and Jedi.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 12:44:52 pm
And thus we get the 12.8km ISD, which is *closer* but really isn't much better than the 8km version.

The 17.6km version is the best value for the ISD.  If you want, I can link you to Curtis Saxon's site, it has a very in-depth look at the SSD size.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Zeronet on March 17, 2002, 12:47:26 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike
And thus we get the 12.8km ISD, which is *closer* but really isn't much better than the 8km version.

The 17.6km version is the best value for the ISD.  If you want, I can link you to Curtis Saxon's site, it has a very in-depth look at the SSD size.


Whats the link?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 12:57:43 pm
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 01:09:09 pm
ok the vong are from another galaxy not another universe so other than cortois ore and force feilds nothign stop lightsabres and if they had cortois ore in them then the lightsabre would sputter and die not jsut fail to cut it

and i dont care what you say they need ot go on the offensive - defensive strageys dont work work when fighting a war since its all on the enemys terms they choose when to engage and there not likely to do that unless they think they can win

and the defensive stragy being employed by the NR is failing hopelessly they need to try something ew  anything new while they still can

if need be and they cant find anything else they can go to center point fire that up and vape all the enemy systems in range then tow them damn thing to where its in range of some more

the galazy is slowly bieng lost they need to get off there moral asses and use superweapons

i mean we know the emperor always prepared for the worst surely he has one more stash of superweapons lying around somewhere
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Nico on March 17, 2002, 01:50:25 pm
About the SSD size:

"
STAR WARS Exhibition
Several years ago many of the important props from the Lucasfilm Archives were put on public exhibition in San Francisco. According to Martyn Griffiths and Frank Bitterhof, many of the models were associated with in-house technical specification cards produced by ILM. The card relating to the Executor made an unambiguous statement that the vessel was eighteen kilometres long. The present fates of this card and others in its series are unknown to the general public
"

from the link Shrike posted.

I think that settles the question.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 01:56:49 pm
See?  Told ya. ;)

Pretty neat site, eh?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 17, 2002, 02:05:53 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
ok the vong are from another galaxy not another universe so other than cortois ore and force feilds nothign stop lightsabres and if they had cortois ore in them then the lightsabre would sputter and die not jsut fail to cut it



And all galaxies contain the exact some things why ?

How can you say the other galaxy doesn't contain things that sabers can't cut?

BTW you are wrong bout forcefeilds and cortis ore being the ONLY things. Mandalorian Iron is also at least highly resistant to lightsabers.

Never assume all the facts when you've barely got 10% Had the vong galaxy always been known then perhaps we'd have known more things sabers can't cut through.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 02:45:40 pm
there are only so many elements in the universe ok if we went to the furthest reaches of our universe we would still find hydrogen in abundans we'd find the same metals and the same gases the same rocks the same elements
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 17, 2002, 02:48:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
there are only so many elements in the universe ok if we went to the furthest reaches of our universe we would still find hydrogen in abundans we'd find the same metals and the same gases the same rocks the same elements


In theory. We've never studied anything outside of our galaxy. Besides we're talking  Star Wars Science...which is a tad different :D
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 03:04:43 pm
well spectrogracis readings on other galaxy tell us they are mande of teh same things and ithink the star war universe is pretty close to ours infact is supposed to be the same on - a long time ago in a galazy faf far away or something like isn't that how star wars started
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 17, 2002, 03:10:27 pm
Yea but it didn't add "in the same universe" :P

Besides, force doesn't seem to exist in this other galaxy, so why can't it be true other elements exist? Some natuarually accuring in creatures? I mean those creatures ARE bred for armor.

And you also contradicted yourself. If SW was the same universe but as you say all galaxies have the same elements,....where's our cortis ore? Among many other things?

Course we can debate the science of this our whole lives and never prove each other wrong or prove ourselves correct ;)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 17, 2002, 03:32:48 pm
cortois ore could exisit on this planet might jsut call it somethign else or it might be not naturtally occuring on earth so we would have to mix up the elements to produce it  but universe wide the same elements are pressent through out it

as for the armour being bred for it to have the power to shut downa  lightsabre it would need to eat cortis ore besides the lightsabre dont shut donw i have never heard of anything else that will stop them - sure blast doors it takes a while to burna  door into it but it penetrates instantly

anyway its just a story and while i consider the x-wing novels to be consistant with starwars universe alot of the written stuff isn't and the vong hit the non conisistant list if you ask me

and all this fussing over the light and dark side of the force then jedi while they didn't use the force to kill directly they did you it to kill indirectly adn they do attack when at war and stuff they jsut dont do unprovoked attacks - all this were are jedi all we can do is sit and debate the force is wrong the jedi were the protectors of the galactic republic and they dealt with the threats to the galaxy nonone else could deal - they didn't jsut sti there waiting
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 17, 2002, 10:53:52 pm
I hafta agree with KillMeNow on at least one point.  Too much of the NJO books are spent depicting Jacen's moral dilemmas and his jubilent whining.  Here he, and apparently a number of other Jedi, are debating over what constitutes a justifiable defense while millions of innocents are thrown into the firey pits of insanity.  WTF?

When I read that one NJO book where Duros falls I wanted to feed Jacen to that big ugly green tentacle thingy in Half-Life.  He gave up the use of his force powers.  *rampant chicken noises*

Why oh why did these respected Star Wars authors turn the Jedi into a bunch of pompous political pussies (apology if this language isn't allowed; I haven't been here in ages)?  I don't think any of the books represented the "let's go get 'em" side of the Jedi enough; they all seemed to focus on Jacen's irrelevant and completely irresponsible pondering of inconsequential things.  I haven't been keeping up on these books, but I hear from this thread that Coruscant's fallen?  What in heck are these guys doing to the Star Wars universe?!?  Does Old Lucas even know what's going on?  It's as if he's off producing a frickin' movie or something...

The Babylon 5 universe was built for drastic, violent changes whose impact would resonate for years to come.  The fall of Narn, of Centuari Prime, the poisoning of Earth.  JMS wrote it to be that way.  But, in my opinion, the Stars Wars universe isn't up for that kind of literary abuse.  Yeah, it's nice that the good guys are getting their butts kicked for once, but NJO is taking it too far.  At the present rate, there won't be an SW universe around the next time an NJO book comes out.  Instead they'll have to rename it Vong Wars, complete with Episode IV, V, and VI.  All full length theatrical features, of course.

I only hope they kill off all the main characters we once knew and loved and put in new ones that are actually capable of shooting first and asking questions later.  Or simply kill off Star Wars and start the much anticipated Vong Wars.  You wanted fresh?  How about never having to hear the words "Imperial Star Destroyer" again? :p

The difficulties of portraying a cast of all Vong realistically, not to mention props that are supposed to be living, would be hard to overcome.  Maybe they'll do it like in that one X-Files epsidoe with the zombies; use Tofu and Tofurkey to simulate organic masses.  For those dreaded, lightsaber nylon protected amphistaffs they could use a long metal pipe with a dead cobra superglued around it.  To simulate those villips, LucasFilm could collect seashells, slather them with pudding and use a series of microfine, high powered fans that don't exist (YET!) to sculpt it into whatever form they wanted.  

Any other ideas for Vong Wars? :D
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 11:00:13 pm
Down with the Vong!
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 17, 2002, 11:03:59 pm
With that kind of attitude, we'll never see Vong Wars!
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: mikhael on March 17, 2002, 11:05:07 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher

The Babylon 5 universe was built for drastic, violent changes whose impact would resonate for years to come.  The fall of Narn, of Centuari Prime, the poisoning of Earth.  JMS wrote it to be that way.  But, in my opinion, the Stars Wars universe isn't up for that kind of literary abuse.  


OF COURSE the Star Wars universe is up for that kind of abuse.

The Prosecution presents People's Exhibit A, a theatrical release entitled 'The Phantom Menace', in which the creator rapes his own creation horribly. Admittedly, it wasn't a terrible film, but it is not up to the standards of films he made before, like 'The Empire Strikes Back'. Sorry, but Lucas is quite cognizant of what is going on in his Universe and does not care. How many times has he said that only the movies, his movies, are 'Star Wars'?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 17, 2002, 11:09:15 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher
With that kind of attitude, we'll never see Vong Wars
Uhhh........good! :D
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 18, 2002, 12:42:39 am
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher
I hafta agree with KillMeNow on at least one point.  Too much of the NJO books are spent depicting Jacen's moral dilemmas and his jubilent whining.  Here he, and apparently a number of other Jedi, are debating over what constitutes a justifiable defense while millions of innocents are thrown into the firey pits of insanity.  WTF?

When I read that one NJO book where Duros falls I wanted to feed Jacen to that big ugly green tentacle thingy in Half-Life.  He gave up the use of his force powers.  *rampant chicken noises*

Why oh why did these respected Star Wars authors turn the Jedi into a bunch of pompous political pussies (apology if this language isn't allowed; I haven't been here in ages)?  I don't think any of the books represented the "let's go get 'em" side of the Jedi enough; they all seemed to focus on Jacen's irrelevant and completely irresponsible pondering of inconsequential things.  I haven't been keeping up on these books, but I hear from this thread that Coruscant's fallen?  What in heck are these guys doing to the Star Wars universe?!?  Does Old Lucas even know what's going on?  It's as if he's off producing a frickin' movie or something...

The Babylon 5 universe was built for drastic, violent changes whose impact would resonate for years to come.  The fall of Narn, of Centuari Prime, the poisoning of Earth.  JMS wrote it to be that way.  But, in my opinion, the Stars Wars universe isn't up for that kind of literary abuse.  Yeah, it's nice that the good guys are getting their butts kicked for once, but NJO is taking it too far.  At the present rate, there won't be an SW universe around the next time an NJO book comes out.  Instead they'll have to rename it Vong Wars, complete with Episode IV, V, and VI.  All full length theatrical features, of course.

I only hope they kill off all the main characters we once knew and loved and put in new ones that are actually capable of shooting first and asking questions later.  Or simply kill off Star Wars and start the much anticipated Vong Wars.  You wanted fresh?  How about never having to hear the words "Imperial Star Destroyer" again? :p


Yes, Coruscant has fallen. The tactics the Vong used to take the New Republic capital highlights the very trouble the Jedi and the New Republic is having in fighting the Vong.

SPOLIER ALERT! DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU HAVE NOT READ STAR BY STAR!

During Star by Star, the Warmaster Tsavong Lah tried to arrange a two- prong offensive on Coruscant. However, the Jedi and a New Republic fleet led by Wedg Antilles managed to destroy one of the prongs before the Vong could attack Coruscant. The Jedi even managed to capture a live yammosk war coordinator (a great intelligence boon for finding out about Vong tactics). Normally, this could have forced the Vong to wait further for reinforcements to attack Coruscant. The delay could even have been long enough to let the New Republic Navy rally and go on the offensive, thus becoming the turning point of the war.

It might have happened, had Tsavong Lah not had an insidious idea...

The warmaster realized that the Jedi were concerned about innocent refugees, so he decided to use the refugee fleets he had captured as "human shields", the same way Saddam Hussein tried to do in the Gulf War. Only this time, the Vong warmaster used the refugee ships to shield his own fleets as he attacked Coruscant!

Chief of State Fey'lya understood that in order to save Coruscant, the New Republic had to fire through the refugee fleet to destroy the Vong ships, so he gave the order to do so. Most of the NR fleet commanders (including Wedge Antilles) refused to follow that order. (Even Luke Skywalker hesitated to follow that order because he wondered if a New Republic that fired on its own citizens would be worth saving.) Garm bel Iblis was the only one to follow the order.

We all would probably agree that if we were there and commanding some of those fleets, we would have probably followed Fey'lya's order too. But I wonder...

If any of you have been watching the news about Afganistan recently, then you know about Operation: Anaconda, a U.S. operation to wipe out some al-queda holdouts in eastern Afganistan. I wonder if we would have hesitated to bomb the crap out of them if they were holding several hundred American citizens as "human shields" in their caves...

This is the same dilema that the Star Wars heroes are facing. But now that Coruscant has fallen, the Jedi and their allies (those that didn't want to turn them over to the Vong) now that their backs are now up against the wall. In Dark Journey Jaina didn't hesitate to use devious and underhanded tactics to thwart the Vong invasion of the Hapes cluster. And she did thwart it; the Vong were successfully repelled from taking Hapan space, thanks to her "Yuun-Harla" gambit. Now that the Jedi have yammosk jammers and disinformation devices, they can finally start taking the fight back to the Vong.

I think that Luke might even be willing to turn around and start getting more aggresive. His nephew is dead and he almost lost his son to the enemy because of a traitor. The losses he has already suffered should inspire him to start taking more risks.

The idea that the Jedi will have to change to survive is already starting to take root in Luke's mind, I think. The storyline isn't called the New Jedi Order for nothing.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 18, 2002, 02:39:18 am
nah is not a new jedi order - its a new wimps are us - jedi's are supposed to defend the galaxy the only people who qualify are kyp durron anakin solo and jaina solo the rest as wusses

and with regard to the fall of courcaunt feyla made the first right discission with ordering the fleets to open fire - they died anyway impacting the plantary shield they just wouyld have died afew seconds earlier and would have died to save litllaryy trillions of people on courscant and without courcsant the new re[publis is dead its like it was back when the empire held it - who had courcsant controled the galaxy

the vong are the only organised power left in the galaxy - so unless the emperial remnant has spent the last little while building SSD and death stars by the hundreds nothing can stop the vong
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: CmdKewin on March 18, 2002, 03:12:51 am
yea, right :) and think also on how advanced is SW construction technology.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 18, 2002, 08:58:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
The warmaster realized that the Jedi were concerned about innocent refugees, so he decided to use the refugee fleets he had captured as "human shields", the same way Saddam Hussein tried to do in the Gulf War. Only this time, the Vong warmaster used the refugee ships to shield his own fleets as he attacked Coruscant!

Chief of State Fey'lya understood that in order to save Coruscant, the New Republic had to fire through the refugee fleet to destroy the Vong ships, so he gave the order to do so. Most of the NR fleet commanders (including Wedge Antilles) refused to follow that order. (Even Luke Skywalker hesitated to follow that order because he wondered if a New Republic that fired on its own citizens would be worth saving.) Garm bel Iblis was the only one to follow the order.

If any of you have been watching the news about Afganistan recently, then you know about Operation: Anaconda, a U.S. operation to wipe out some al-queda holdouts in eastern Afganistan. I wonder if we would have hesitated to bomb the crap out of them if they were holding several hundred American citizens as "human shields" in their caves...
You are trading thousands for billions.  War is hell, and in war, people DIE.  I wouldn't want to be the one in those ships, or have family on them, but that's why the people in charge get paid the big bucks.  So they can make the hard decisions.

And the stupid thing is, don't the Vong basically cause mass sacrifices on the worlds the capture?  So by wimping out, the New Republic forces paved the way for the Vong to kill A) the hostages and B) assloads of people on Coruscant.

Great going guys!

See why I refuse to read any more extended universe books?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 18, 2002, 09:58:27 am
Silly jedi people... :rolleyes:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 18, 2002, 10:10:46 am
It's not just the Jedi, it's all the NR 'military' people.

You think if the US could save all of New York from destruction by sinking a cruise liner with 2000 people on it they'd blink?  HELL no!
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 18, 2002, 10:22:25 am
True. And if I could save my Freespace CDs by nuking New York City you think I'd blink? Hell no! :D
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Shrike on March 18, 2002, 10:25:09 am
Yeah, and then the US would turn all of Brazil into a self-lighting parking lot.  (I love that term. :D)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 18, 2002, 10:39:21 am
Well, I probably wouldn't be around here anymore, so... :D
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 18, 2002, 06:44:34 pm
Su-tehp made some very good points.  If the Vongies were shielding their ships with thousands of desperate innocents, then it's no suprise that some did hesitate to fire.  However, I also see the engagement as Coruscant as symbolic of the New Republic's war effort; they wait too long, fighting over strategy and morals, and end up with fewer lives and lower morale than when they began.  Really, where do they draw the line?  They exchange Coruscant and thousands, if not millions or billions of lives, for the sanctity and clean conscience of a select few (the Jedi and apparently some NR military leaders).  The galactic capital and whoever didn't evacuate it now in enemy hands.  

It's nice that the Jedi realize they may have to sacrifice their souls to save billions of others, but if the authors stay REAL (an outlandish proposition, probably) it'll be too little too late.  It certainly doesn't help that, until now, the New Republic's "best hopes" chose to fight through passive resistence.  Unless they can pull some magic trick out of their Unknown Regions pocket, I don't see how they can turn it around.  BTW, have (the now inconsequential) Bilbringi and Kuat fallen yet?

Here's to hoping the authors can keep it real.  And, if not, to Vong Wars.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 18, 2002, 07:16:49 pm
the corilea - kuat and i think bilbringi yarks are still fuctional - fondor fell in a disaster by the time the fleet arrive to protect ti it was already gone and then the hapan fleet who arrived to late anyway got swatted by the ultimate weed whacker the centerproint station tore the fleet to peices - half the vong fleet too and clipped the edge of the planet causing huge devistation
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 18, 2002, 09:53:17 pm
Thanx for the answer, KillMeNow.  Seems the Reps still have some hope.  Now that the capitol has fallen, where's the leadership gone?  I heard in one book they'd made contingencies for Koornacht (sp?) Cluster where those funny Yevetha guys are, or some Hyperspace Terminal.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 18, 2002, 10:19:57 pm
In the next NJO book Rebel Dream (it's coming out in April) some of the NR military leaders have regrouped and make Wedge Antilles the head of the remaining NR military forces. (Slasher said the NR leadership regrouped at the Koornacht Cluster; I guess we'll be finding out for sure in a couple of weeks.) At the same time, Luke and Kyp Durron try to settle their differences and unite the Jedi. Also, Leia and Han decide to covertly organize a resistance force inside Vong territory.

And even with Coruscant fallen, some of the people who didn't manage to escape went to ground in the deep underlevels of the Coruscant planet-cityscape. The inhabitants of the underlevels are tough, sneaky and know the terrain there. The underlevels are dark, convoluted and a nightmare for non-locals to navigate. It's the perfect place to organize resistance cells to take back Coruscant, or at least hinder the Vong occupiers until help comes.

And KMN, I think I mentioned earlier that the Vong were repulsed from Hapes space in Dark Journey. The Hapans rebuilt their fleet that they lost at Fondor because of Centerpoint Station. When the Vong came calling in the Hapes Cluster, Jaina and the Hapan fleet sent them packing. Jaina even managed to demoralize some of the Vong! Thanks to her "Yun-Harla/Trickster" gambit, heresy is now startng to infect the ranks of the Vong.

There's still hope for the good guys yet.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 18, 2002, 10:26:22 pm
Actually, I don't know where the Republic's leaders have gone.  I do specifically recall a general, or admiral, saying that plans had been made to relocate key members and other such VIPs to deep within the Koornacht Cluster in the event that Coruscant fell.  Or, should the Vong push even further into the Core, to fall back to the Empress Teta (?) Hyperspace Terminal.  I have no clue what that last one means...

I say they just pack up and make way for the Unknown Regions.  Thrawn must've left something out there; Destroyers, shipyards, Omega-X's, etc.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 19, 2002, 06:26:47 am
there may still be hope but not much - they need to organise fast the jedi and military need to work together they should prtect those shipyards and let nothing get between the defensive fleets and the yards planets should have shiled grids installed if they dont already and massive planetary weapons arrays mine fields should be establised too

but lets hope the next book the tide of battle turns
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 19, 2002, 06:40:02 am
Just how many soldiers did the Vong fleet have? Come on, you need billions, if not trillions of people to occupy something as Coruscant...
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Kitsune on March 19, 2002, 03:29:36 pm
Coruscant is not an ideal system to hold anyways.   The planet has no resources, no orbiting shipyards.  It's nothing more than a symbol.
Giving up Coruscant was probably the best thing the NR could have hoped to do.  Because from a military point of view, why defend something that can't support the war?

If you don't believe me go read Rogue Squadron: The Bacta Wars.  Good read.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 19, 2002, 05:11:15 pm
yes but for the vong it has a reasource - sacrifices and alot of them and if they had not allowed ships to ram the sheilds it made a good fortress very good sheilding that could withstand the vong for a long while while they recieve fire from teh surface and from a fleet and teh golan stations used properly it could have been helpful in killing a large number of vong ships
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 19, 2002, 05:40:37 pm
Kitsune, there's also the fact that all the military and political decisions for the entire New Republic were all made from Coruscant. All the coordination for prosecuting the war was at Coruscant. By taking Coruscant, the only way the Vong could have dealt a worse to the New Republic would be to shut down all hyperspace travel (The SW RPG book New Jedi Order Sourcebook says precisely this.)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 19, 2002, 11:05:46 pm
Exactly.  Galactic bureaucracy was wired to go through Coruscant and has been for many, many years.  You're basically taking a sledgehammer to the forehead of your opponent.  It'd be like if the Shivans struck Beta Aquilae or Delta Serpentis.

Courscant's loss would have an adverse effect for the Republic on all levels from political to psychological.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 20, 2002, 06:43:12 am
Warsies are always talking about how powerful Coruscant shields are... if so, how exactly did the Vong break through it? It's a whole planet, for God's sake, it's not like it can't whitstand a siege for a long time... And no one answered my question about the occupation force. :p
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 20, 2002, 11:24:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
Warsies are always talking about how powerful Coruscant shields are... if so, how exactly did the Vong break through it? It's a whole planet, for God's sake, it's not like it can't whitstand a siege for a long time... And no one answered my question about the occupation force. :p


If I recall correctly, the planetary shields were designed to withstand bombardment from lasers and bombs, but the Vong were actually ramming the refugee ships into the planetary shields. Even something as powerful as planetary shields can't stand up to that much punishment; the Vong had captured tens of thousands of refugee ships.

If I understood what happened next correctly, I think Lando Calrissian (who got recommisioned by Borsk Fey'lya to his old New Republic General rank) ordered the Coruscant military to open up one section of planet shielding to let the refugee ships through and let the mines in orbit take out Vong ships as they tried to pass through the gap in the shields.

The problem with that is Coruscant ran out of mines before they ran out of Vong.

Also, Coruscant's pre-invasion population is about 35 billion or so. many of those fled Coruscant when it was clear the planet was about to be invaded. Refugee ships were fleeing the planet in droves when the Vong invasion fore appeared also. Say, just for the sake of argument that about half of Coruscant's population fled, leaving 17 billion on the planet. Obviously, an occupying force can't have one soldier for every captured citizen; if that were so, no invasion in Earth history would ever have worked. It's just not practical to have so many soldiers guarding so many civilians, because usually there aren't enough soldiers to go around. Not even the Vong have 17 billion available soldiers to guard every person on Coruscant.

Usually, the ratio of occupying soldier to civilian population is about what? One to 1,000? One man with a gun can frighten ALOT of unarmed people. This is how occupying forces have to work; they have to frighten the native population into submission. Otherwise, every civilian a soldier would see could be a potential guerilla fighter.

And considering that Coruscant's underlevels are notorious for being a perfect place to hide, I don't doubt that resistance cells are already forming on Coruscant...

Maybe the Vong have bitten off more than they can chew this time.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 20, 2002, 11:47:21 am
So, what you're saying is that basically the people from Coruscant provided their enemy with the ammo to take out their shields when they fled the planet, that the Vong wouldn't have been able to take down the shields if they hadn't fled and consequentially Coruscant wouldn't have fallen, and that the New Republic fleet refused to shoot at the transports even though they knew they would be used to take down the shields on the planet - killing everyone onboard them and leaving countless billion others at the mercy of the Vong?

Sounds pretty damn stupid of the New Republic military to do that. I'd assume that their citizens would be close to completely pissed off by now...


:rolleyes:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 20, 2002, 04:35:30 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
So, what you're saying is that basically the people from Coruscant provided their enemy with the ammo to take out their shields when they fled the planet, that the Vong wouldn't have been able to take down the shields if they hadn't fled and consequentially Coruscant wouldn't have fallen, and that the New Republic fleet refused to shoot at the transports even though they knew they would be used to take down the shields on the planet - killing everyone onboard them and leaving countless billion others at the mercy of the Vong?

Sounds pretty damn stupid of the New Republic military to do that. I'd assume that their citizens would be close to completely pissed off by now...

:rolleyes:


The refugees began fleeing AFTER the planetary shields went down, not before. But even so, once some of military commanders refused to shoot through the refugee ships at the Vong, people began realizing that Coruscant was doomed.

Read Star by Star. See the story with your own eyes and judge for yourself. I think that way you'll understand better what happened than with my less-than-crystal-clear summarizations. :)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 20, 2002, 05:41:17 pm
I wonder - if Vong Wars was ever made, would they speak with a british accent? ;) :p :lol:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 21, 2002, 07:38:11 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
The refugees began fleeing AFTER the planetary shields went down, not before. But even so, once some of military commanders refused to shoot through the refugee ships at the Vong, people began realizing that Coruscant was doomed.

Read Star by Star. See the story with your own eyes and judge for yourself. I think that way you'll understand better what happened than with my less-than-crystal-clear summarizations. :)



No!! I won't read it! I refuse to pollute my precious neurons with that kind of [censored]!! :D

(just joking, ok?)


And how did they take the shield down with refugee ships if the ships only started fleeing after they took the shields down? Anyone senses a paradox there? :p
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 21, 2002, 08:09:04 am
they had cunningly hearded lots of refugee hsips from other planets they had taken to one area then captured them and then ramed them into the planets surface well shields really
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 21, 2002, 10:21:55 am
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
And how did they take the shield down with refugee ships if the ships only started fleeing after they took the shields down? Anyone senses a paradox there? :p


WHOOPS! When I meant that refugees were fleeing Coruscant, I forgot to make this clear: there were TWO groups of refugees involved here: (1) The refugee fleet that the Vong used to ram Coruscant's shields and (2)the Coruscant citizens who fled the planet once it was obvious that Coruscant would fall to the Vong. When I said that refugees began fleeing Coruscant I was referring to the second group, not the first.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 21, 2002, 10:36:36 am
Ah. Makes... a bit... more sense now. ;)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 21, 2002, 09:10:00 pm
I must admit that the Vong's conquering of Coruscant probably isn't as big of a deal as I made it out to be earlier.  Coruscant has, after all, fallen to an invasion force on at least two other occassions.  First to the Rebel Alliance shortly after the Battle of Endor, then again to the cloned Palpatine some years later.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Su-tehp on March 21, 2002, 11:53:56 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Slasher
I must admit that the Vong's conquering of Coruscant probably isn't as big of a deal as I made it out to be earlier.  Coruscant has, after all, fallen to an invasion force on at least two other occassions.  First to the Rebel Alliance shortly after the Battle of Endor, then again to the cloned Palpatine some years later.


I'm not sure that just because Coruscant fell so many times to invaders means that it's worthless. It's just the opposite, I would think. If so many armies have expended so many resources and lives to capturing it, then it must be of great tactical, strategic and political value. Otherwise, no one, neither Empire, New Republic or Vong, would have fought so hard and spent so much in resources and lives to capture it.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2002, 01:33:46 am
on a completly unrealated note, I just downloaded those old starwars fighters and stuf and they were made by V's BSPgen, isn't that interesting, someone from V sent those things in, boy, I sure do miss those old days were V actualy cared
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Styxx on March 22, 2002, 06:32:49 am
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
on a completly unrealated note, I just downloaded those old starwars fighters and stuf and they were made by V's BSPgen, isn't that interesting, someone from V sent those things in, boy, I sure do miss those old days were V actualy cared



What? There were "mods" that were compiled with V's tools?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Bobboau on March 22, 2002, 01:49:54 pm
look in the PINF chunk, thats BSPgen's fingerprint
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Slasher on March 22, 2002, 06:23:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp


I'm not sure that just because Coruscant fell so many times to invaders means that it's worthless. It's just the opposite, I would think. If so many armies have expended so many resources and lives to capturing it, then it must be of great tactical, strategic and political value. Otherwise, no one, neither Empire, New Republic or Vong, would have fought so hard and spent so much in resources and lives to capture it.


True, although that's not the point I was trying to make.  What I meant was that I shouldn't have been so surprised that Coruscant fell because it has, in fact, succumbed to invasion at least twice before.  In both cases, the defenders put up a valiant struggle.  The people sitting in the throne has changed many times, and probably will for many years to come.  But by no means did I mean to say that the galactic capitol is worthless. :D

In this case, however, the New Republic failed in its pledge to defend its citizens.  Now they're just a bunch of loosers. :doubt:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Setekh on March 22, 2002, 08:19:52 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
look in the PINF chunk, thats BSPgen's fingerprint


"BSP"Gen..?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Mr. Vega on March 22, 2002, 08:30:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp


I'm not sure that just because Coruscant fell so many times to invaders means that it's worthless. It's just the opposite, I would think. If so many armies have expended so many resources and lives to capturing it, then it must be of great tactical, strategic and political value. Otherwise, no one, neither Empire, New Republic or Vong, would have fought so hard and spent so much in resources and lives to capture it.


Coruscant was so important to the Rebels and the Empire because it is the very symbol of authority. Its been the center of governments since recorded history in Star Wars.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: NeoHunter on March 23, 2002, 02:04:16 am
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
ISD= Imperial-class Star Destroyer

SSD= Super Star Destroyer

Hey, who's read those New Jedi Order Series books? I've read a couple of them and they ROCK ASS! :) :nod:


I have! I think it rocks too! But I find it quite hard to visualise a Bothan Assault Cruiser and those Yuuzhan Vong ships. Anybody know of any site where I can actually see them???
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 23, 2002, 02:22:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
But I find it quite hard to visualise a Bothan Assault Cruiser and those Yuuzhan Vong ships. Anybody know of any site where I can actually see them???


:nod: :nod:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: NeoHunter on March 23, 2002, 02:23:54 am
Where can I find them? Don't just nod your head!!!
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 23, 2002, 02:37:57 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter
Where can I find them? Don't just nod your head!!!


No - I was agreeing with you, I find it hard to visualize, and I want to see them, too! Silly! :p ;)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Bobboau on March 23, 2002, 02:43:58 am
""BSP"Gen..?"

it's the name of V's pof export plugin for 3Ds
:headz:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: NeoHunter on March 23, 2002, 05:30:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


No - I was agreeing with you, I find it hard to visualize, and I want to see them, too! Silly! :p ;)


Oops!:o
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 23, 2002, 06:22:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter


Oops!:o


*Will Smith voice* "No more "Oops", ok?!" :p
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: NeoHunter on March 23, 2002, 07:37:27 pm
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


*Will Smith voice* "No more "Oops", ok?!" :p


[Ewok voice]YUB YUB COMMANDER!!!:nod:[/Ewok voice]
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 24, 2002, 03:32:27 am
Quote
Originally posted by NeoHunter


[Ewok voice]YUB YUB COMMANDER!!!:nod:[/Ewok voice]


LOL!

Well, if I have my timezones right, you should be heading back right about now, or something like that. Have a good time, dude, and come back safe! ;)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: WMCoolmon on March 24, 2002, 03:33:41 am
Can't you guys go back off-topic? The conversation was just getting interesting too... :nod:
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 04, 2003, 02:01:44 pm
Ka-BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now that a number of new NJO books have come out, and the end is in sight (http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2003/01/news20030121.html), I want to revive this thread. So... :D

Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
they really need to learn from good old emperor palpatines book - those vong are lucky they didn't arive 30 years earlier


That point is mentioned a number of times in the books. I forget where, though.

I've read up to/through "Traitor"; since I refuse to spend inordinate amounts of money on hardcover books, I have to wait until August until "Destiny's Way" comes out in paperback. But in the meantime, I want to point out a few tie-ins NJO authors are making to the far past:

Greg Bear's "Rouge Planet" - set in between Ep. 1 and 2 - involves as part of the backstory how Vergere - Elan's familiar, who is revealed to have originated in this galaxy in Hero's Trial, came to join the Vong. It also involves Zonoma Sekot, a planet that is part of the plotline of "Force Heretic 1: Remnant", and perhaps the other 2 Force Heretic books

Don't read the spoiler if you plan on reading "Rogue Planet", although you discover part what I'm going to say on page 50:
Spoiler:
Vergere is/was a Jedi Padawan/Knight? Coolness. I also appreciate the link between Anakin/Vader's knowledge of the Vong's existance, and the Emperor's knowledge of a distant threat against which he sent Thrawn and the rest of the Chiss back in the day.


Another link to Star Wars past is the e-book Ylesia (http://www.starwars.com/eu/news/2002/09/news20020903.html), which involves the planet Ylesia from the Han Solo Trilogy, written back in 1997.

Of those two above tie-ins, I'd say that the "Rogue Planet" one is more important to understanding things, especially since there are two or three whole NJO books that involve the planet, whereas "Ylesia" is but a measly e-book. But whatevers...

Random thought: What happens to Droma, that Ryn buddy of Han's earlier on in the NJO series? Do you think they'll eventually write him in to be the Chewie "replacement" that he was temporarily, or has he fulfilled his destiny already?

What're people's thoughts concerning how the Jedi understanding of the Force is being mutated and changed in the latest books, esp. in "Traitor"?

{/Warsie mode}

Ok, I think that should be plenty of substance to revive this thread. :D Gopher it! ;) :p
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 04, 2003, 02:13:47 pm
i've always enjoyed the links that they've used. Even Nom Anonr is actually an older SW EU character (Crimson Empire...1 or 2 can't recall which).

As to the understanding of the Force, I personally love it. It makes much more since if you think about it. It's been long argued whether or not the Darkside was an act of using the force in a certain way, or by the PERSON using the force. Alot of the RPG groups get into that debate over things like "But if I used Force Lightning to save someone's life, is that dark?"

The planet, not going to spoil it for you, but let's leave it at it's going to be a MAJOR plot point for at least the Force Heretic books. ;)

Droma hasn't been mentioned too much, but the Ryn come back into play near the end of the last book, so we might see Droma pop back into the series.

Also, when you read Destiny's Way, pay ALOT of attention to the last two pages :) Not syaing more than ..........it's a possible hint about something with the Vong ;)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 04, 2003, 03:08:03 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
i've always enjoyed the links that they've used. Even Nom Anonr is actually an older SW EU character (Crimson Empire...1 or 2 can't recall which).


Ahh - I never did manage to get any SW comics... parhaps I should start looking.

Quote
The planet, not going to spoil it for you, but let's leave it at it's going to be a MAJOR plot point for at least the Force Heretic books. ;)


Well, yeah - I actually have the first of that sub-series, and I've read the back cover, but I'm not gonna read the book itself out of chronological order. So I know what the cover says, as well as what the SW site says about the books.

Quote
Droma hasn't been mentioned too much, but the Ryn come back into play near the end of the last book, so we might see Droma pop back into the series.


How do you know? It's not even written yet.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 04, 2003, 03:26:13 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


How do you know? It's not even written yet.


I meant the last one OUT :P  Force Heretic 1.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 04, 2003, 03:34:27 pm
Ahh.

So... you have read Rogue Planet, I assume?
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 04, 2003, 03:42:12 pm
Yup, read that when it first came out,...really liked the link between it and the NJO series.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: KillMeNow on March 04, 2003, 04:24:16 pm
jsut thought i would chip in here again

with teh fall of courcant the nr died - there can be no question of that now its called the galatic alliance now

however in a way it has saved them the beauracy of courscant was an arena the vong had voices in and that cost the nr alot

however courscants could have been the anvil on which they crushed the vong they had them trapped between teh sheilds and a large nr fleet  by lowering the planetary shields they saved noone can condemed billions and courscant population is more than 35 billion earths population is only 6 billion and thing how many areas of it are complete dierted vast amjority of it is water/ ice/ desert or grassland courcsant is populated over the entire surface in huge building that rise up for miles

so they killed alot of people that day

anyway the so called turning point in teh war has apparently happened in a book i'venot read and of whihc the reviews are highlydubious with the author changing squadrons to sectors??????? damned f i know why and now squadrons are groups of capital ships now not fighters

the debate of whatsmoral or not is still going on which i feel is unrealistic - a huge number of planets have fallen to the vong galactic moral has to be increibully low and the populations backs are against the wall certainly its human nature under such circumstances to lash out and fight back every shipyeard in the galaxy wqould be producing ships and then in time attrition would let the native popualtions win agains the  vong

i dont know maybe they jsut wanted to change things maybe the njo was a way of getting rid of the stagnating nr and replacing tiwith something more lively

what i want to know is how finding a planet will help the end the war the living planet as i recall was deeply routed int eh force and dind't share teh  vongs views on anythign the reason it fled infact was a encounter with early vong incursion

and with teh mroal issueit seems unlikely the vong will be killed ot the last man which is what it would require

other things with teh whole tahiri things in renmant does anyone get the feeling anakin might not be dead?

anyway i'm rambling - not good at making concise statements

basically i think njo is better than ti was in teh early book with constant defeats but still no as good as the x-wing series
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 04, 2003, 04:33:37 pm
Quote
Originally posted by KillMeNow
anyway i'm rambling - not good at making concise statements


Periods are A1-SUP4R. :nod:

I haven't read Remnant yet, so I can't comment on the Tahiri thing except to say that for the longest time I was convinced that they'd bring Chewie back, esp. since they didn't find his body. But now... :(

About the planet, I think that any crucial effect it could have on the war would be the rejection of the Vong by it - recall the Vong reaction to discovering that the pollen of the Boffur (sp?) trees was lethal to the voduun crab armor? They were flabbergasted that a piece of nature was rejecting them. Could be the same type of thing here, on a much greater scale.
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Warlock on March 04, 2003, 08:18:42 pm
Well I was going to direct quote and reply,..but I can't tell where some things start and others end up there :D  LOL

Anyways,...yea me and my gf both got that "Anakin might come back" feeling,...but IF he does,..I don't think it would be simply "Poof he didn't die" ,... his body was burned an all. I'm more to the thought the whole deal is something in Tahri's subconcsious.

As for the planet, don't forget part of it is the fact that it was able to hold the Vong off on it's own AND the story Vergere told Jason about it. Once the leader was killed the planet itself basically took over. That might be a big key to defeating the Vong.

The Squadron comment, honest I never noticed in any of the books where anything other than a group of fighters were referred to as anything but a squadron. But in that book the turning point is pretty big and quite reasonable. ;) (Destiny's Way if I'm correct)
Title: ISD,SSD models (Now a NJO discussion)
Post by: Sandwich on March 05, 2003, 02:57:24 am
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
Well I was going to direct quote and reply,..but I can't tell where some things start and others end up there :D  LOL


Well, that's ok - we allow him a bit of eccentricity in exchange for him being one of the local SW experts (or nuts, depending on your own views on the subject... ;) ).

Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
As for the planet, don't forget part of it is the fact that it was able to hold the Vong off on it's own AND the story Vergere told Jason about it. Once the leader was killed the planet itself basically took over. That might be a big key to defeating the Vong.


From what I understood solely from "Rogue Planet" (haven't read "Destiny's Way" yet, remember), The Vong pretty much wiped out the southern hemisphere, and it was only through Vergere's offering to go with them that they withdrew. Yeah, you see that the planet has some pretty unique and special abilities in the end battle of that book, but I must have missed anything that indicated that it was able to hold off the Vong. :doubt: