Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - Standalone => Wing Commander Saga => Topic started by: rjzcap1 on January 18, 2009, 11:57:52 pm
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I have tried to get this to work with mutiple options. Uding direct x direct 3d in the driver options I get messed up video and everything moves to quikly. With open gl I get the following error from FreeSpace2 open launcher Unable to get proper pixel format for opengl W32!
I have the following
AMS athlon 64 3000+ 2.0 GHz
1.5 GB ram
geforce 4 mx 4000 have to use xddm drivers no other choice
VIA AC 97 audio card biult in
and more than 50 GB HD
What could the problem be?
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Check out the FAQ: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,56279.msg1180356.html#msg1180356
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I'm not liking the sound of your graphics card
How recent is it?
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You are probably using stock Vista drivers, which in some cases offer no proper OpenGL support.
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You should try to the stuff that is mentioned in the FAQ.
I haven't found any specifications to what OpenGL support your card has but I think you need at least OpenGL 2.0 support for FSopen. (Not sure thought)
As for the question of the drivers...have you tried to use the XP drivers with Vista? Tolwyn is right that the basic Vista drivers are....useless when it comes to OGL.
On a little sidenote, why are you using Vista? XP should work much better with your configuration and there are still drivers for it.
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I will try the xp drivers but I think they won't work. My card doesn't have special vista drivers on the mai site. What else can I do. Why no direct x supprt? Most games use that. Can I load open gl somehow else? Can I use a 3rd part driver? I found some on google but they crash the system. Any ideas. I have Vista beacuse it's what I use at work and at home. Will does xompatabiluty mode not help. Alternate ideas???
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Most windoze games have direct3d support. This game engine is multi-platform and uses OpenGL which is supported under Windows, Lunix, and Mac. You should be able to find drivers from the chipset manufacture if the card manufacturer doesn't have them available. In this case it looks like Nvidia. Try their website.
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No the card is to old. Even Nvidia dosn't have any Vista drivers for the card, looked that up yesterday when I updated my own drivers.
For the question of D3D support. There are two points why D3D has been dropped.
Frist there where no coders who know how to code in D3D, or there was just no one willing to do it.
Second D3D works only with Windows systems while OpenGL supports Windows, Linux, Mac and I think it will even run fine on consoles.
As for third party drivers. I only know this page http://www.omegadrivers.net/nvidia_vista.php
Their drivers worked well for me once but I went back to the official drivers since these are pretty outdated but so is your graphic card. Read the readme to the driver, they give you some advice on how to install them correctly.
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Look rizcap
Easiest thing I can tell you to do, is get a more recent graphics card. At least you want something from the late nVidia 6 series, late 7 series and beyond. They run FS2_Open and most recent games admirably
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Or downgrade to Windows XP.
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Look rizcap
Easiest thing I can tell you to do, is get a more recent graphics card. At least you want something from the late nVidia 6 series, late 7 series and beyond. They run FS2_Open and most recent games admirably
I guess that he still has only and AGP port and no PCI-E. That could be a problem since good AGP cards have become very rare and are more expansive then their PCI-E counterparts.
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You can by AGP 8x vido cards mid grade cards like gfx 8600 or ati hd 4600 at wallmat for around $100
But vista is probbly takeing 75 to 90% of his sistom ram depending on how long it has been since he last reboot.
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1.5 GB RAM should be enough for Vista and Saga. Still, given the system spec (single core CPU, etc) I'd strongly recommend to downgrade to XP.
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The RAM doesn't look like an issue. Vista aggressively caches into memory and manages memory fairly well so long as you have it. It loves its RAM but it makes great use of it. The problems are that its an older system with slower CPU, a slower HyperTransport, and worst yet that the video card is badly out of date. Actually I would say that the video card is the weak link in the system....a couple of years ago that CPU and RAM combination were fantastic but the video card is much too far behind.
So while I am a fan of the improvements in Vista ...I don't think its a terribly good idea to run Vista on an older machine like that and if the objective is to keep doing that then the video card definitely needs to be upgraded. There are some newer AGP cards on the market that would work and have much more recent drivers. I'm sure the folks here and generally on HLP would be happy to provide some advice on which card to buy if that is the path taken.
Good luck!
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I think you mean UPgrade to XP, Tolwyn. Vista's the downgrade. *chuckles*
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I think you mean UPgrade to XP, Tolwyn. Vista's the downgrade. *chuckles*
:lol:
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I think you mean UPgrade to XP, Tolwyn. Vista's the downgrade. *chuckles*
Me likes Vista/Windows 7.
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I think you mean UPgrade to XP, Tolwyn. Vista's the downgrade. *chuckles*
Me likes Vista/Windows 7.
Thing about Vista, you need to have a good PC to reap the rewards, otherwise you end up akin to the masses who lift up their copies of Vista and call "BULL****!" Because Vista is not kind to system RAM, however it does make some decent use of it at least
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My biggest gripe is that Vista is a pain in the ass to install in the first place. I had to disable my NICs to keep it from trying to look for updates during the install and thereby locking up the installer. Also there are a lot of people who still have SB Live! cards, but are there properly functioning Vista drivers for that which include support for the Live! Drive front panels? Noooooo. I got it working once with the creative drivers for XP, but had to nuke the install and start over because something broke. The second time the Creative drivers didn't give me the front panel support and I had to turn to the kX project, which doesn't work quite right, but I can at least use the secondary mic input with it. Then there's the loathsome start menu and the fact that you can't even change it to XP style. It's either Vista style or Win9x/Me style, and don't even get me started on that search bar instead of a regular "Run" item... I could go on at length, but I've said enough at this point about the irritations.
Now, there are a few things they did right. Like being able to set volume levels individually for programs, but even that was done at the expense of a proper mixer. The categorized control panel is much better than XP's (I still switch to classic control panel for my own use though). And it's nice that the UI doesn't look like something from Pixar.
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Most of those problems have more to do with Creative's crappy support of legacy hardware than Vista. Microsoft did change the entire way that hardware interacted with the OS so obviously software changes in the drivers were necessary but thats hardly the OS's fault on its own.
Interesting about the dual NIC cards causing a problem.
Installing Vista is easy.
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I have also a creative card and I don't have any problems using Vista64. I have got all the options and control panels I had under XP.
Installing was also very easy. Inserted the DVD, booted the system, said install and waited till it was done. After the restart it found most of my hardware, except the scanner.
Then I installed the drivers for V64 that I previously downloaded, activaded the internet connection and I was ready to go.
So I had no difference between the XP and Vista installation, except that more hardware was automaticly found then with XP.
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Believe it or not, but I am running Vista on a Athlon 1.25 ghz chip with 512mb of SDR ram and an Nvidia Geforce 5200 agp graphics card with very few problems, by which I mean the odd lag on a game.
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I think you mean UPgrade to XP, Tolwyn. Vista's the downgrade. *chuckles*
Me likes Vista/Windows 7.
Thing about Vista, you need to have a good PC to reap the rewards, otherwise you end up akin to the masses who lift up their copies of Vista and call "BULL****!" Because Vista is not kind to system RAM, however it does make some decent use of it at least
Same could have been said with XP, compared to 2K :D
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I think you mean UPgrade to XP, Tolwyn. Vista's the downgrade. *chuckles*
Me likes Vista/Windows 7.
Thing about Vista, you need to have a good PC to reap the rewards, otherwise you end up akin to the masses who lift up their copies of Vista and call "BULL****!" Because Vista is not kind to system RAM, however it does make some decent use of it at least
Same could have been said with XP, compared to 2K :D
Short term memory :)
There is a break even point where Vista's memory and CPU management outshines XP's. Windows 7 is shaping up to out do Vista and XP from the looks of it so that seems like some good progress.
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Mmmm, I wouldn't know. At least give it a PROPER NAME! Seriously, Windows 7 is as appealing to me as solving a rubix cube with my elbows while being forced to watch Event Horizon on repeat. IMO it looks like what Windows 98 was to 95.
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I don't know. W7 is as good for me as a name as XP or Vista. I don't care what its called. Could be "Stuff-done-totaly-wrong-but-you-will-buy-it-anyway" for me as long as it works.
I would still favor "Bull****". Just imagne a friend comes by and asks "What OS are you using?" and you answer "My OS is Bull****" ^__^
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I don't know. W7 is as good for me as a name as XP or Vista. I don't care what its called. Could be "Stuff-done-totaly-wrong-but-you-will-buy-it-anyway" for me as long as it works.
I would still favor "Bull****". Just imagne a friend comes by and asks "What OS are you using?" and you answer "My OS is Bull****" ^__^
I guess, there's always that feeling you have to buy something new when it comes out, so I guess the majority of people with money and an attraction to shiny things would buy it as soon as it comes out.
As for
Just imagne a friend comes by and asks "What OS are you using?" and you answer "My OS is Bull****" ^__^
I would say that about Vista, :lol:
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Heh. The very point of Windows 7 is how quicly it comes out. Both 2k and XP were around for 4 years before a succesor came, while Vista haven't been for two, and Windows 7 is just around a corner... it says something about vista IMO. With all my conservativeness about OS and beeing extremally unwilling to downgrade to a new version (i always felt that way), I was unable to just wait XP over, and i'm pretty confident i'll go from XP straight to 7. Also, AFAIK now major corporation upgraded to VIsta, and thus it has been a commertial failure. I really don't know what you mean by saying that vista puts memory to good use, for me best it could do would be leaving as much as possible to other programs.
As for D3D and OpenGL. I don't know about now, but back in the early 2000's you could really see the difference, while running the same apllication under both. OpenGL looked way better, so there are good reasons to use it. Also, while many games use D3D, it's far frome every one, biggest example being ID games wich from the dawn of #d Accelerators used OGL exclusively
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Vista has better memory management...in practice its translated into quicker response on loading commonly accessed programs and much less skipping and pausing in memory intensive applications caused by XP's old memory management practices (I always set a static page file in XP to try and circumvent most of that problem). Yes it looks like its eating up allot of memory but most of that is reserved for other applications if they need it and quickly given up if not. You still need 2GB or more to really make that work so its gotten a reputation as being a pig on budget computers that have 1GB.
Win 7 looks to be better than Vista in every way which is encouraging. A much more refined product from the sounds of it.
As for the name....is Windows 7 any worse than Windows eXPerience?
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I just hope they give a price reduction for Vista users. I would be willing to change but not to spend so much money again.
I have pretty good experiances with Vista64 so far, except that I kicked out the Aero interface and set it back to W98 ^_^
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yeah the name is back to the roots i think. After all my first windows was called 3.11 (i'm that old...) :-)
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Windows 3.1 and 3.11.....
Then you are old enough to remember the time when windows wasn't an OS but a graphical interface for DOS. (and everyone knew it. Was the same until WinME, but people thought it was different because they didn't see DOS anymore :D)
When I first saw windows 3.1, I thought: Nice! But then my father showed me it was still DOS, and I was like: WTF?? There is still DOS for everything? Almost never used it back then....
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I also remember 3. and 3.11. I think I still got a pretty old Laptop that has it. Today the only good use is to use it as a weapon to smash thieves (that things is freaking heavy) ^_^
Still the good old DOS days when even deleting "importend" files just didn't matter that much. Config file deleted? Who cares. The freakn machine is still booting. Just make a new one or best you got a bootdisk that you could just copy the file from.
I think what Windows needs is a simple core for the very basic functions that is independent from the rest of the system and just makes sure that no matter what happens you can still start your PC and reinstall/overwrite any damaged file and be done with your repairs.
The freaking registry should be kicked out or every developer beeing forced to create an uninstall procedure that makes a perfect uninstall with all files and entries beeing deleted.
Also the "common files" that are used for more the one program should be either taken out or have some kind of overwrite/delete protection so they don't get messed up by another program you just installed or the other way around beeing deleted by a crappy written uninstall procedure.
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I also remember 3. and 3.11. I think I still got a pretty old Laptop that has it. Today the only good use is to use it as a weapon to smash thieves (that things is freaking heavy) ^_^
Still the good old DOS days when even deleting "importend" files just didn't matter that much. Config file deleted? Who cares. The freakn machine is still booting. Just make a new one or best you got a bootdisk that you could just copy the file from.
I think what Windows needs is a simple core for the very basic functions that is independent from the rest of the system and just makes sure that no matter what happens you can still start your PC and reinstall/overwrite any damaged file and be done with your repairs.
The freaking registry should be kicked out or every developer beeing forced to create an uninstall procedure that makes a perfect uninstall with all files and entries beeing deleted.
Also the "common files" that are used for more the one program should be either taken out or have some kind of overwrite/delete protection so they don't get messed up by another program you just installed or the other way around beeing deleted by a crappy written uninstall procedure.
Agreed. The windows registry was the stupidest idea ever spawned. I also agree there should be a minimum configuration option that is tuned for high resource requirement programs like games. (I do a periodic tune-up on my gaming system that essentially does this but it is not a trivial task nor one for the techno-challenged.)
An don't even get me started about using Windows as a business class OS..........
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Concider yourself lucky if you can buy a "working" PC and a "gameing" PC.
I can't and there aren't any games I am much interested in on the Console. Well if the PS2 drops in price now I might concider it as I liked to play Final Fantasy games at my friends place but then I don't have much time to get into them nowadays.
As for the registry, the basic idea isn't that bad I think. From what I got the idea was to have a register of what programms are installed to sort drivers and what else the program needs into one place and give programmers of the same company the posibility to have common files that are noted in the tables, for their different programs.
That way you wouldn't need to install some files as they where allready on the system as the registry stated.
Problem was, oposite to Apple, MS did a terrible, say no, quality ensurance for the software that was allowed to run on a Windows system. Resulting in a total mess of this system.
Again something of the "Good idea, bad excecution" part.
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Concider yourself lucky if you can buy a "working" PC and a "gameing" PC.
I can't and there aren't any games I am much interested in on the Console. Well if the PS2 drops in price now I might concider it as I liked to play Final Fantasy games at my friends place but then I don't have much time to get into them nowadays.
As for the registry, the basic idea isn't that bad I think. From what I got the idea was to have a register of what programms are installed to sort drivers and what else the program needs into one place and give programmers of the same company the posibility to have common files that are noted in the tables, for their different programs.
That way you wouldn't need to install some files as they where allready on the system as the registry stated.
Problem was, oposite to Apple, MS did a terrible, say no, quality ensurance for the software that was allowed to run on a Windows system. Resulting in a total mess of this system.
Again something of the "Good idea, bad excecution" part.
I guess I am lucky. I work in IT and have access to "trash" PCs on occasion. They are certainly not top of the line anymore but they are adequate for most tasks. My gaming machine is OLD at this point and will have to last me much longer. Luckily it runs Saga very well and most other games I enjoy well with some tweaking of graphics settings.
Do not mistake me for a techo-junkie who upgrades/replaces equipment every few months. I have two kids in college.
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Considering how fast hardware gets older...my PC is about the antice? Not stoneage yet but also not the youngest anymore.
If it wouldn't have been for the bigger screen that makes working so much more confortable I woulnd't have changed my graphiccard either. Old didn't liked the higher resolution.
So yes there is one up to date component in my PC...I am such a technojunky ^_^
Sadly I now feel that my CPU is stopping out the system. T_T
Graphic benchmark is fast and smooth, same scenario just with the CPU, dead slow. Before that it had been similar. But then I am currently saveing money to get the next version of my software that skips the CPU and goes directly over the GPU. I think that should give a good boost.
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Maybe you should visit Poland. You cen get core 2 quad for less than 200 euros. Just be quick before exchange rate changes.... :p
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PC parts have become so cheep has of late, I priced out a new machen on new egg, roung about 3x the one I built last year for for littel less then half the cost.
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You get C2Q for about the same prize here. I found prizes from 120€ - 1300€ depending on what type of C2Q you want.
What I am looking for is a good price for a i7 system. I need to upgrade my working machine.
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Agreed. The windows registry was the stupidest idea ever spawned. I also agree there should be a minimum configuration option that is tuned for high resource requirement programs like games. (I do a periodic tune-up on my gaming system that essentially does this but it is not a trivial task nor one for the techno-challenged.)
An don't even get me started about using Windows as a business class OS..........
There's an interesting interview with Tony Williams, one of the inventors of the registry, in which he talks about how the registry came about because of COM.
His first slide in one of the earlier presentations was something along the lines of "The Registry: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry...".
He also expresses amazement at how dependent the _KERNEL_ has become on the registry.
For those not familiar with COM, I suggest having a look at what it is, and that should give you a good idea of why the registry was viewed as a good solution to the problems COM throws up.
Don't be too quick to condemn it, it actually serves a useful purpose.
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For interop, COM stuff sure the reg's good. For application settings? ummm I'd rather have some xml/ini file that can be backed up and more importantly totally nuked.
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The registry is a two sided sword I think. The idea was good, to my understanding it was created to have one common spot where all the vital system information is gethered and managed.
That by itself is a good way but the problem comes with other software corps not creating proper installation/deinstallation tools and leaving mess of faulty entries behind.
Also heard that there was the problem that some corps where using the same filenames but different files and this created conflicts.
What is it about the COM, when I just type in COM in google I get hundrets of results. Could you be a bit more specific or just give a short explanation?
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non-.NET DLL's use COM (component object model) a lot. It's sorta a way to do code libraries that any app can use.
DirectX uses COM.
Basically you register a COM library to the registry then an app can ask if that library is available and request it use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model)
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Scooby has almost landed it.
DirectX is pseudo-COM - it has all the good stuff, but as far as I can tell, it doesn't use the CoCreateInstance interface, rather just supplies it's own.
COM is a rather massive beast to explain in one go, but it's got everything from interface abstraction to inter-process martialling.
It's the inter-process martialling that's the fun bit that COM can do.
The idea is that you can have a bunch of different implementations of something that one program can call. Consider the case of retrieving data from a data logger - you can have an IDataLogger interface that can define how you play with a whole bunch of data logger classes.