Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: portej05 on January 21, 2009, 02:05:12 am
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Being a warm weather guy (e.g. cold is 15°C), I've got no idea what to wear in Washington and New York this time of year... any suggestions?
(you guys are turning into my travel agents... sorry! :D)
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Although somewhat different (?), when I went to England in 2007 winter, I just had long pants, and a ski-jacket over a sweater over a shirt. And gloves. :p
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A sweater (not over a T-Shirt). And gloves. And a winter jacket. Trousers... well, I just use normal jeans for any kind of weather.
And that's really it. That's what I put on when I go skating (on ice, you know, that typical dutch sort of thing). I am quite used to the cold, and worry more about passing out from the heat, so there is a relative factor. Gloves are reccomended because you're fingers are going to hurt at that temperature, especially if there is a lot of wind. A hat (or what is it called?) can prevent your ears from becoming painfull, but it's not as much as your fingers. A scarf is a tertiary priority.
Or you could dress like everyone else going to washington, and blame them if you freeze to death :P.
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Multiple layers is generally the best plan, especially if you’re planning to be outside walking around a lot. Think t-shirt, long-sleeve shirt, a sweater or heavy sweatshirt and a lined waterproof jacket to go over. This way you can add/remove clothes as necessary to stay comfortable, depending on activity level and the weather.
I would highly recommend a hat, as there’s a lot of blood flow to your head and you can lose a lot of heat that way. Gloves are semi-optional if you have warm pockets, but they might be a good idea. If you get cold easily, you may want some kind of long underwear under your jeans or whatever pants you’re planning to wear. That’s about all I can think of.
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Agreed, lots of thin layers is preferable to few thick ones, since the air-gaps between the clothes work in a similar fashion to a Thermos flask, keeping the heat inside.
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Well, it was -31 C here the other day. I found my down jacket, a scarf, a touque, a good pair of gloves and boots worked ok. That was over a pair of heavy geans, a t-shirt, and a wool sweater. Of course, in that temperature I wasn't going to stay outside long. Cold temperatures usually aren't all that bad -it's the wind that gets you. If it's windy, bundle up, and bundle up well. A pair of wool socks over normal sports socks is also a very good idea, provided you have the room in your boots. I don't recommend runners in really cold temperatures.
I agree that layers is best, especially if you're outside for any given amount of time. The important thing is that if you start to sweat because you're too hot, get layers off. Otherwise you'll freeze when you stop moving.
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Cheers for all the advice guys!
I'm on a plane in 12 hours to the USA :yes:
I'm planning to buy what I don't have in Charleston (my first stop) since there are virtually no cold weather shops here in Perth.
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Depending on the temperature jeans have a propensity for freezing through. If you have a pair of long johns or pajama bottoms to wear under them it helps quite bit if it's really cold.
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If possible, cotton on the inside and wool on the outside.
Wool over layers keeps you very, very warm and cotton helps take away the sweat. Kind of odd to think about trying to keep "cool", but it helps. If you own a wool coat, wear it. If not, layers is the big thing. I like to wear casual blazers around, and the difference between wearing a short or long sleeve shirt underneath is amazing.
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Your clothing should depend on what you think you are going to do and what kind of weather you have.
My standard clothing procedure for everyday life is something like this:
20 and above (t-shirt and shorts) [My thermal shutdown occurs around +30 deg, by that time I can't really do much anything due to the excessive sweating)
15->20 (Trousers and t-shirt)
15->7 (Trousers, jacket, [polo] shirt and undies)
7->4 (Trousers, wollen cap [not tightly woven], jacket, [polo] shirt, undies, something to protect neck and leather gloves)
4->-10 (Trousers, wollen cap, jacket, [polo] shirt, cotton shirt, long johns, undies, something to protect neck and thick gloves)
-10->-20 (Trousers, wollen cap, stuffed jacket, cotton shirt and under it a polo shirt, longjohns, undies and something to protect neck and thick gloves)
-20 and below -> Stuffed trousers, extra tight wollen cap if available [otherwise cap made of fur), stuffed jacket, cotton shirt and under it a polo shirt, longjohns, undies and something to protect neck, two layers of gloves)
This is for everyday life. If I'm doing sports, its again a different call.
I can sustain temperatures from 4 degrees to 20+ degrees indefinetely in the clothing listed above as long as the clothes don't get wet and allow wind to blow through.
From 4->-10, about one hour is maximum if I'm moving all the time and there is not strong wind.
From -10 ->-20 about three hours or more (but less than six), the since stuffed jacket adds more heat insulation.
From -20 and below. If necessary, the whole day. But then I'm not really doing much work.
When moose hunting and standing still in when it rains sleet (around -2 to +2 degs), nothing is enough. If cutting trees at -30 (like my father did), you could survive with less provided you do enough work and get good enough food and warm water.
Mika
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The hardest decision for clothing I can recall is bicycling at -25 degrees with 18 m/s wind. That equals something like -50 degrees of cold, but the above clothes rule doesn't really apply, since you absolutely don't want to get excessive sweating.
I think I went with undies, two pairs of longjohns and normal trousers and two pairs of socks. On top, a polo shirt, neckscarf, stuffed leather jacket, tightly woven wollen cap and standard issue padded gloves. When I returned after 3 km trip, legs were slightly cold, while the polo shirt was soaked. Face was red, eyebrows were frozen and there was some snow around. Sauna is good after trips like that.
Mika
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Layers are good but when outside three things are key:
1) Hat - preferably a toque
2) Gloves - whatever protects your hands from the windchill
3) A proper winter jacket - people have different thoughts about styles here but I like the typical Columbia style winter jackets. They are reasonably lightweight but have good insulation and are warm.
The jacket and hat are absolutely key...hands can be tucked into pockets but if its cold and theres a windchill you need a jacket that will stop the wind and a hat to protect your ears and head. DC and NY City are warmer than where I am but not by too much.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to mention that this winter has already gone on long enough...I'm sick of it...bring on spring! :)
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A spacesuit - if you can get one.
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Base layer fool! I've got thermal leggins and t-shirt. I usually wear 2 or 3 t-shirts over that when it's really cold. Doesn't stop the cold but takes the sharp edge off of it.
And yeah gloves, You'll feel alot better if you're hands aren't freezing.
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Pipo!
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kodmGPbnETg/R1_A50TATII/AAAAAAAAATE/J7hE2gKqVoU/s400/Pinkki+Hello+Kitty+pipo+001.jpg)
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Do you really own a pink pipo? :eek2:
Mika
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Naah, I just though that picture to be very presentative.
I just wonder whether it has eye holes...
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Real men don't need eye holes...
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I wear shorts and a t-shirt down to minus 5 and only put on something warmer than a hoody and toque if it's colder than minus 20 so i very much doubt that my personal opinion would be of any value here.
that said if you do want a useful tip, wind is your mortal enemy. do not take this lightly. frostnip is hell and is a direct result of stupid people only checking the thermometer and not the window. mere cold is no challenge for anyone but wind on the other hand is what kills people in all those horror stories you see in readers digest.
anyway if you want to know about real cold go to Winnipeg in ohhh say late January and stand outside for the maximum safe amount of time - say 30 seconds. The coldest wind chill reading ever recorded was −57.1 °C (−70.8 °F)
really.
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Base layer fool! I've got thermal leggins and t-shirt. I usually wear 2 or 3 t-shirts over that when it's really cold. Doesn't stop the cold but takes the sharp edge off of it.
And yeah gloves, You'll feel alot better if you're hands aren't freezing.
Gloves actually have less importance than what you're wearing to keep your legs and torso and head warm. Sure, they are important too - but the thing is, if you have insufficient clothing to keep general heat dissipation to minimum, your hands and feet are the first things that will start feeling cold (apart from your face which is usually most exposed part of your body, but that's a bit different). That's because your body will concentrate on keeping the torso and head at normal temperature, and that means the circulation in your limbs will suffer, and thus you will start feeling cold hands even with the best gloves and shoes in the world. And if you can keep other parts of your body warm, then your hands will not feel as cold either.
The amount of clothing you need depends heavily on how much you can and need to be moving. If it's not cold enough, you can keep warm by moving around, walking fast and so forth, and need a lot less clothing then you might think. If it's cold enough that breathing faster starts hurting, then you simply can't move fast enough to produce heat by muscle activity, so you need to instead minimize heat dissipation. Like tinfoil said, wind needs some serious consideration too.
Ideally, you need a layer that leads moisture away from the skin, a layer that insulates (and probably also absorbs some moisture), and a layer that stops the wind. The first one is relevant only if you need to do strenuous activity in cold, leading to sweating. Although too strenuous activity in cold can lead to lung problems since you need to breathe faster than your nasal cavity can heat the air up, leading your lungs to be exposed to very cold and dry air. Anyway, cotton garments facing your skin are death since they don't really lead the sweat away, they just become wet. Wool is much better choice; it has the ability to absorb a lot more moisture than cotton and still retain significant insulation capacity.
The inuit had pretty much ideal winter clothing; basically they had the undergarments, then an inverted fur layer with the furry side facing inward, then a walrus hide anorak to stop the wind. The polar explorers ended up either researching and adopting their way of surviving; or at least the surviving parties did. Amundsen picked the Inuit style of fur and leather clothing and dogs for transportation and did pretty well, while captain Scott chose to stick with British clothing (cotton, deadly cotton...) and ponies for their antarctic expedition which ended up in the death of the whole party. :rolleyes:
As far as headwear goes, the importance of a properly designed and properly worn hood can't be exaggerated. It is an awesome component of your jacket and it protects your neck, head and face from both radiation and conduction types of heat loss; it reflects a lot of the heat back, and obviously stops wind, and even though the front is open, a properly set hood creates a pressure buffer in front of your face even though you might not notice it, and makes a significant difference in how cold your face becomes. A proper hat is important (a tuque or karvalakki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karvalakki) are probably the best choices), yes, but in really cold conditions, a good hood becomes an absolute necessity.
Shoes are more important than gloves, too. Specifically, you need footwear that can deal with heat and moisture both. You need the shoes to be able to stop the heat from going away, but preferably be able to lead the moisture away. If that can't be achieved, then you need something that can absorb a LOT of moisture before it start to lose it's thermal insulation capacity. The former requires expensive Gore-Tex or equivalent solution, while the latter can be simply done with thick rubber boots big enough to fit removable felt-made lining parts in them, which can be swapped when they become damp. What comes to socks, wearing something like tennis socks made of cotton is about the worst thing to do. Woolen socks are better, they lead moisture away better, feel dry far longer, and cotton becomes much more rough when it gets moist, so wool causes less blisters too (though that is only an issue if you go take a hike or march...). Obviously, the shoes need to be big enough to fit at least two layers of socks inside without pressure (which causes blisters and reduces the thermal insulation and water absorption ability of your socks).
Prolonged exposure to cold also needs other things to be taken care of aside from clothing, such as making sure you don't become dehydrated. And you need to eat more than normally too, cold uses your direct glucose stores surprisingly fast. And you need a partner to keep an eye on your face for frostbites, and you need to do the same for others. Aside from the wind, though, as long as you can stay dry and retain your mobility, simply getting used to cold is an important factor in how cold you feel, especially regarding hands and face. After some time (days, weeks) with constant exposure to cold, your body actually starts to adapt to it. Your peripheral circulation improves, which makes your hands and feet warmer. On personal experience, after staying a few hours in about -20-24 degrees Celcius without gloves my hands actually started to warm up spontaneously, regained their mobility and felt warm to touch, despite conditions not changing. Not that you should do this, mind you. The reason for this particular stupidity was that I had to take notes on the performance of the conscripts in a soldier's basic test and doing that with gloves was rather impossible...
As far as what kind of gloves you should be using, again woollen mittens and separate, thick thermal insulation mittens/gloves on top of them have worked fine for me. If you need more mobility, then leather gloves are probably best... Thick gloves with separate fingers have almost no point at all, since you lose the ability to manipulate stuff accurately with those gloves anyway and they are thermally inferior to mittens with one section for thumb and one for other fingers.
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The guy is going to a city...not the arctic circle :)
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It is a widely known fact that bus stops are one of the coldest places in our planet, and city streets can be quite the wind tunnel system themselves, so I don't see any specific difference between cold in a city and cold in the south pole, except that in city you can get to warm faster and easier and getting lost in a blizzard is rather unlikely. :p
Same principles apply.
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I wear shorts and a t-shirt down to minus 5 and only put on something warmer than a hoody and toque if it's colder than minus 20 so i very much doubt that my personal opinion would be of any value here.
Now I don't know if you are joking or serious. This is because I do know there are people who run outside at -20 C wearing only shorts, jogging shoes and pipos around here.
And then there is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Icehole.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JQXoqUjtw00/RbOmjmWwvSI/AAAAAAAAAIo/kYmjZ6PBV7c/s1600-h/IMG_9779.jpg
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiedosto:Icehole_Jurmala_Latvia.jpg
Haven't tried that personally. Yet that is.
Mika