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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Krelus on January 26, 2009, 11:15:12 pm

Title: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Krelus on January 26, 2009, 11:15:12 pm
I'm thinking of buying this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3109398&SRCCODE=SHOPPINGDF&cm_mmc_o=2mHCjCmtB55bETCjCVqHCjCdwwp) for FS2, since dogfighting with the keypad and/or mouse isn't much fun. Is that a good joystick, or should I get a different one?

Also, does FS2 recognize joystick-mounted throttle switches?
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 26, 2009, 11:44:55 pm
Personal opinion but I don't like the force feedback ones.  Too loose for my liking.  I have to crank the feedback up to maximum to get any feel for the game.  Other than that I haven't had any trouble with a similar model. 
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Krelus on January 27, 2009, 12:08:47 am
Personal opinion but I don't like the force feedback ones.  Too loose for my liking.  I have to crank the feedback up to maximum to get any feel for the game.  Other than that I haven't had any trouble with a similar model. 

Whoop, good call. I'm gonna see if there's a non-FF version.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on January 27, 2009, 12:40:19 am
I'm using the Freedom 2.4 on this computer.  It's cordless but works fine.  Haven't run the first set of batteries out yet.  Tempted to move it to my playing computer but I need the cordless here since I don't have enough desk space.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Reprobator on January 27, 2009, 01:26:12 am
a friend just buy this one :
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=149&PlatformID=5

40$ for a hotas stick , this is a good deal and it works perfectly with fs2!
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: SOFBear on January 27, 2009, 02:49:29 pm
I played the game originally with a non force Microsoft joystick and liked it alot.  I now have a Microsoft FF joystick and originally hated it with FS2.  However, if you turn off the force and play with the both the calibration in control panel and the game's internal options settings for deadzones, etc, you can make it do the trick.  Just takes some playing with (actually it took me two nights of fiddling with it).  I like Logitech products in general and researched the heck out of their current offering for a non FF joystick and what I saw made me dig out my old Microsoft stick.  Apparently the Logitech is alot like a Dodge--get a good one and it will last forever.  The problem is, there are alot of them that won't last much at all.  (The springs apparently go out fast on them making calibration dang near impossible).
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: smurd on January 27, 2009, 03:27:32 pm
I use a Logitech Attack 3 (because I'm left-handed and it's symmetric). After three months one of the cables inside was broken from the movement. I was able to repair it myself, still this should not happen...
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: captain-custard on January 27, 2009, 03:35:45 pm
i have this exact joystick and it works perfectly for me so if you can gaet it cheap enough its niot a bad investiment, you can program most of your essential commands to the joystick and leave the rest on the keyboard , its fairly accurate and the downside .... well as vidmaster said this type can be a little loose i have mine cranked up to 150% but i may have found another solution for this , if it works ill post it.

other than that its good , the cordless one that fubar talks about is good vaue as well


as for the hotas sticks im not sure , you already need 3 hands to play fs and adding another thing is just going to make it harder in my opinion


happy hunting
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Reprobator on January 28, 2009, 04:24:07 am
the purpose of hotas is to avoid using keyboard, actually one hand on the stick and one hand on the throttle and you're ready to fight  :)
anyway the throttle doesn't need to be constantly handed, you can easily use your keyboard and when you're done come back to the throttle control...
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Krelus on January 29, 2009, 12:37:48 pm
Actually, the two-piece Hotas looks pretty badass.

Thanks, all, I'll definitely take your advice into account. Now I just need money... Time to sell back some textbooks.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: captain-custard on January 29, 2009, 12:47:23 pm
for me a hotas has a valid use in an aircraft sim , but has very little use in freespace , with a joystik like the logitech , you have a throttle control (ok its little and doesny cost a small fortune , as my joystick has 12 buttons +pov + throttle i keep 2 hands on it most of the tim and use my keyboard for very few things , so for me i dont see the point in buying a hotas joystick unless you play a lot of flight sims
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 29, 2009, 01:36:34 pm
A word of warning, Logitechs have a tendency to suck. The components used in them for axis identification are flimsy and aside from simply breaking up mechanically, they are prone to developing skipping, loss of axis detection area as a result of poor electrical quality.

If you want a budget joystick, get a Saitek Cyborg Evo. It sits about at the same price range as Logitech Extreme/Force 3D Pro and has the same features but much superior components.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: smurd on January 29, 2009, 03:39:20 pm
I used a Saitek Cyborg 2000 before (like the Evo usable if you're left-handed), and took a look at the Evo in a shop. I found that it had the same drawback the Cyborg 2000 had - it is very loose, the pull towards the middle my Logitech Attack 3 has is much stronger. Also, the Evo is *very* light, the foot's weight is next to nothing.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 29, 2009, 04:10:51 pm
I used a Saitek Cyborg 2000 before (like the Evo usable if you're left-handed), and took a look at the Evo in a shop. I found that it had the same drawback the Cyborg 2000 had - it is very loose, the pull towards the middle my Logitech Attack 3 has is much stronger. Also, the Evo is *very* light, the foot's weight is next to nothing.

I myself have taken all the return springs off from my Cyborg Evo, both the gimbal and the twist handle spring. It's a bit inconvenient occasionally since it now tends to lop to the sides when I release it, but it really improved things on flight simulators as long as I keep my hand on the stick.

Now if only I could mod the stick to have friction locks, so that I could leave my hand from it and it would stay in that position, that would be ideal.

Otherwise I have to agree with you - Logitech sticks have better base and better ergonomy for right-handed grip. But those advantages are neutered by the crappy electronics department - you don't get the benefit from better mechanical design when the stick doesn't work properly at all. :blah:
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Sololop on January 29, 2009, 05:37:41 pm
I'm using a cyborg evo, but I never could get freespace to detect the throttle lever. Is it possible?
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Moonred on January 29, 2009, 05:40:29 pm
I have Logitech Wingman Force 3D and it is just awshum >_<
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on January 29, 2009, 05:41:44 pm
I'm using a cyborg evo, but I never could get freespace to detect the throttle lever. Is it possible?

Look for the "Absolute throttle" setting, then try binding the throttle lever axis to it. It definitely is possible.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: SOFBear on January 29, 2009, 09:19:37 pm
Gads I miss my ole Microsoft non-force joystick.  Wish I could find a good sturdy non-force joystick that had alot of buttons and didn't cost a hundred bucks.  Frankly, I've hated every force feed back stick I've had.  I'm playing the game with an old Microsoft Force Feedback stick only cause it comes closest to a non force stick with the forces turned off.  I just don't need carpal tunnel from playing a game.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Sololop on February 01, 2009, 09:05:11 pm
Look for the "Absolute throttle" setting, then try binding the throttle lever axis to it. It definitely is possible.

Hmm, If I highlight Absolute Throttle, click bind, and move the throttle, it does not detect it. The throttle does work and is detected fine if I go to the calibration window. The game detects every other button and axis on the joystick, even the rudder control(Twist) of the joystick.

Edit: Nevermind, decided to work after tinkering with it.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: SOFBear on February 01, 2009, 09:22:00 pm
I worked for me!  Try turning the throttle all the way down then move it up to bind it.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: chief1983 on February 02, 2009, 02:53:06 pm
I like my X45 although I had to put it in storage for the time being.  It has a rocker rudder on the throttle instead of a twist stick.  Took some getting used to but I find that I like not worrying about hitting the rudder while I'm banking or pitching.  It's fairly easy to set the sensitivity so it responds well to your own levels of finger pressure too.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: TomJeffersonJones on February 06, 2009, 03:39:55 pm
Gads I miss my ole Microsoft non-force joystick.  Wish I could find a good sturdy non-force joystick that had alot of buttons and didn't cost a hundred bucks.  Frankly, I've hated every force feed back stick I've had.  I'm playing the game with an old Microsoft Force Feedback stick only cause it comes closest to a non force stick with the forces turned off.  I just don't need carpal tunnel from playing a game.

Every stick I've seen that wasn't CH or Thrustmaster felt like a cheap piece of junk.  And Force feedback, yeah what's that about.  100 bucks may be the cost of admission these days, I don't know - but the CH Combatstick USB I've been using for the past eight years still feels like new.  Well, the Y axis has a little squeak in it...but man this thing's a survivor. 
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Rhymes on February 06, 2009, 05:53:24 pm
I like my X45 although I had to put it in storage for the time being.  It has a rocker rudder on the throttle instead of a twist stick.  Took some getting used to but I find that I like not worrying about hitting the rudder while I'm banking or pitching.  It's fairly easy to set the sensitivity so it responds well to your own levels of finger pressure too.

I used to use one of those, but since I got a new PC, I switched to an X52 Pro.  The X52 is a twist stick, but otherwise it has everything the X45 does, plus some improvements (like being able to modify resistance on the throttle so you don't need a ton of leverage to move it, and an adjustable grip size)
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Hero_Swe on February 08, 2009, 12:51:04 pm
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81HCD9GF7TL._SL500_AA280_.gif)


Arrr! Thar be my joystick of destruction!  


It's still in fine working condition although the leather under the joystick has torn itself in two areas, My brother has one also but he doesn't game anymore so he gave me it and that one's leather is only torn in one place! Oh and when you tab out of some games the force feedback doesn't come back
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Vretsu on February 10, 2009, 10:55:08 pm
Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. *cringes*

I hate the name. "Extreme?" Yeah, it's usable, I guess. "3D?" What the-? Yeah, I know of a joystick that only works in two dimensions...it's called a keyboard, MORONS! "Pro?" Is there an 'amateur' model out there, somewhere, that comes with safety glasses and cushioned buttons? I didn't think they made joysticks with less buttons than mine!

I sure wish I'd bought the "Ultimate Hardcore 5D Time-Traveler's Edition" joystick. Then I'd show those Dragon fighters what for.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Wobble73 on February 11, 2009, 06:59:48 am
Gads I miss my ole Microsoft non-force joystick.  Wish I could find a good sturdy non-force joystick that had alot of buttons and didn't cost a hundred bucks.  Frankly, I've hated every force feed back stick I've had.  I'm playing the game with an old Microsoft Force Feedback stick only cause it comes closest to a non force stick with the forces turned off.  I just don't need carpal tunnel from playing a game.

Every stick I've seen that wasn't CH or Thrustmaster felt like a cheap piece of junk.  And Force feedback, yeah what's that about.  100 bucks may be the cost of admission these days, I don't know - but the CH Combatstick USB I've been using for the past eight years still feels like new.  Well, the Y axis has a little squeak in it...but man this thing's a survivor. 

Including Saiteks?? Man, those are built to last!
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 11, 2009, 07:26:37 am
Yeah, man I heart my Saitek Cyborg Evo  :D

EDIT: Just looked at the X52

OMG! THAT THING IS INSANE! DAWWWWWG! THAT THING IS LIKE THE PAM ANDERSON OF JOYSTICKS! WOOOOOOAH! DILMAH.NEEDS.ONE.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 11, 2009, 07:53:34 am
Saitek Evo for me. Feels kinda loose though, then again it's my first joystick. o_o

I'm having trouble figuring out how to enable force-feedback for FS. Any help would be appreciated.

I think http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm) is what I have, but mine has a black throttle. O_o

Anyways, I agree. X52 looks awesome. ^_^
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 11, 2009, 07:59:58 am
Saitek Evo for me. Feels kinda loose though, then again it's my first joystick. o_o

I'm having trouble figuring out how to enable force-feedback for FS. Any help would be appreciated.

I think http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm) is what I have, but mine has a black throttle. O_o

Anyways, I agree. X52 looks awesome. ^_^

Well I think you have to configure it in control panel and then use the launcher to enable FF, then it should work. I haven't heard much about FF in Freespace, anyone care to enlighten me?
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: azile0 on February 11, 2009, 10:18:30 am
I just bought the one on the OP on eBay for $15. Looks nice. When I get a new computer, I'll have a new joystick, too.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Wobble73 on February 11, 2009, 10:45:14 am
Saitek Evo for me. Feels kinda loose though, then again it's my first joystick. o_o

I'm having trouble figuring out how to enable force-feedback for FS. Any help would be appreciated.

I think http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm) is what I have, but mine has a black throttle. O_o

Anyways, I agree. X52 looks awesome. ^_^

Well I think you have to configure it in control panel and then use the launcher to enable FF, then it should work. I haven't heard much about FF in Freespace, anyone care to enlighten me?

Under the Audio tab IIRC.

 I also have a Saitek Evo (Non-FF, gameport), bought for £4 of a car boot. It's old but the build quality is solid, when I saw it I had to have it, especially at that bargain price! It is quite loose, compared to using a PS2 gamepad, which I have used for a couple of years now.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: admiral_wolf on February 11, 2009, 11:55:13 am
I've had a Logictek Attack 3 for about 6 months and have had no complaints so far.  Took me 3 hours of shop searching in Milton Keynes that stocked joysticks and it was the only one in the whole place!
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 12, 2009, 03:17:04 am
I've had a Logictek Attack 3 for about 6 months and have had no complaints so far.  Took me 3 hours of shop searching in Milton Keynes that stocked joysticks and it was the only one in the whole place!

Logitech Attack 3? arrrghhh, I'm no fan of the thing, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: admiral_wolf on February 12, 2009, 03:54:38 pm
I've had a Logictek Attack 3 for about 6 months and have had no complaints so far.  Took me 3 hours of shop searching in Milton Keynes that stocked joysticks and it was the only one in the whole place!

Logitech Attack 3? arrrghhh, I'm no fan of the thing, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use it.

Believe me, if I had had a choice I wouldn't have.  I'd have prefered a more advanced model, but like I said it was the only one in the whole of the shopping district in Milton Keynes.  Wish I hadn't had gotten rid of my Saitek when I moved house years ago.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Gloc on February 12, 2009, 04:16:09 pm
Mmm, the X52 really is nice. :)

And apparently Saitek has a new Cyborg (http://www.saitekusa.com/prod/cyx.htm) stick. Sweet.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 12, 2009, 04:35:47 pm
Believe me, if I had had a choice I wouldn't have.  I'd have prefered a more advanced model, but like I said it was the only one in the whole of the shopping district in Milton Keynes.  Wish I hadn't had gotten rid of my Saitek when I moved house years ago.
Wow... Maybe you should try online. =/
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: SpardaSon21 on February 12, 2009, 04:46:19 pm
Saitek ST90.  Trigger, two buttons, $15, works great.  Had it a few years and I see no need to upgrade.  It also has a built-in throttle on top of the joy which is nice.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: TomJeffersonJones on February 15, 2009, 01:17:07 pm
Gads I miss my ole Microsoft non-force joystick.  Wish I could find a good sturdy non-force joystick that had alot of buttons and didn't cost a hundred bucks.  Frankly, I've hated every force feed back stick I've had.  I'm playing the game with an old Microsoft Force Feedback stick only cause it comes closest to a non force stick with the forces turned off.  I just don't need carpal tunnel from playing a game.

Every stick I've seen that wasn't CH or Thrustmaster felt like a cheap piece of junk.  And Force feedback, yeah what's that about.  100 bucks may be the cost of admission these days, I don't know - but the CH Combatstick USB I've been using for the past eight years still feels like new.  Well, the Y axis has a little squeak in it...but man this thing's a survivor. 

Including Saiteks?? Man, those are built to last!

My experience with other models is pretty limited - I've never handled an X52 for example, or Saitek throttle - but I tried out an EVO once and it was downright floppy and so light.  It offered little resistance and only made these flaccid attempts to recenter itself.  When i tilted the base the stick would flop to the side pathetically i mean does it even have springs inside?  Plus it was over designed, like it just dropped out of an anime.   I felt like i was going to break it....the X52 looks alright, but again it looks over designed.  Its the solid simplicity of the CH sticks that seduced me, they're very no-nonsense, but the expense is a huge detractor, no getting around that.   

A got to give praise to CH's control manager software as well, its easy to use and lets me combine my stick and rudder pedals into a single device that older games can recognize.  I use the pedals to control rolling in FS2 for example, but come to think of it I've never actually looked to see if Fs2O supports multiple control devices.  I combine the devices every time i start windows by force of habit, lots of old sims on my drive.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 16, 2009, 04:07:09 am
I'm not sure which model you're referring to, but my Evo definitely has a spring. o_o
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 16, 2009, 04:13:18 am
I'm not sure which model you're referring to, but my Evo definitely has a spring. o_o


Yeah so does mine, in fact I was just cleaning mine. Makes the stick feel like a charm again.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Killer Whale on February 16, 2009, 05:48:32 am
I got the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, couldn't hit anything with it and went straight back to the mouse.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 16, 2009, 06:30:42 am
I got the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, couldn't hit anything with it and went straight back to the mouse.

 :lol: It doesn't exactly have a good reputation either.
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Pred the Penguin on February 16, 2009, 04:45:37 pm
Maybe you just have to get used to it. I never could hit anything when starting with keyboard, even now I'm having trouble getting used to my new joystick. =/
Title: Re: Joystick for FS2?
Post by: Herra Tohtori on February 17, 2009, 01:24:35 am
No, that stick probably just sucks balls. Trust me on this, you can't get used to a joystick that sucks. I've heard that some Logitech sticks don't have the flaws I have noticed in them, but thus far they have been present in each one that I have had the misfortune to test...

Here's a comparision between the sensors that Logitech uses in their sticks, and the potentiometres that Saitek uses:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2itk303.png)


The problem with the flimsy sensors from Logitech is that they aren't very robust. They are very simple in their working principle, and I think they are also prone to oxidation which makes them skip and jump after some use. They are also mechanically poorly designed since the "neck" of the sensor is very thin, and I've seen force feedback stick just tear that thing apart - one of the halves of the ball snaps and the thing compresses which leads to significant, purely mechanical deadzone developement. Here's a shot of the Logitech's sensor "design":

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2qklb0h.png)

Saitek's stuff is just so much better electronically. Of course, hall effect sensors are way better than potentiometres due to lack of mechanical connections; optical sensors come close but hall effect sensors are the best.