Hard Light Productions Forums

Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rick James on February 02, 2009, 10:22:43 am

Title: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Rick James on February 02, 2009, 10:22:43 am
What the christ. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012302935.html)

Quote
It was past 7 p.m., but late sun still streamed through the large kitchen window as Georgia stood at the stove stirring her simmering tomato-artichoke sauce. Georgia turned, catching a glimpse of something out the window that sent a jolt of fear through her. Hooded, armed men, dressed in black, were fanning across the back yard. Still more men, crouching low, moved around the side of the house. Georgia's mind raced to make sense of the strange tableau. Was someone playing an elaborate practical joke?

One of the men spotted Georgia gaping out the window. He lifted his high-powered assault rifle and pointed it directly at her, she recalled. Georgia -- still clutching her wooden spoon -- threw both hands up in the air and screamed. "Cheye, I think it's SWAT!"

Cheye was sitting on the edge of his bed in his boxers. He was just about to put on his black dress socks, when he heard Georgia scream something that made absolutely no sense. He looked out a bedroom window to see armed, masked men running. He was still wondering if they were home invaders when he heard his front door shatter.

In the kitchen, Georgia spun to face the sound of the splintering door. Men in black burst through the front door and into the living room.

Georgia stood trembling in front of the kitchen stove. Payton, who had been stretched out in a corner of the living room farthest from the front door, his head resting near the threshold to the kitchen "turned toward the front door when I turned," Georgia recalled. "He didn't have time to do anything else." Almost instantly, men in black ran forward and shot Payton in the face, Georgia said. "They kept shooting," she recalled. "I didn't know how many times they shot Payton because there was so much gunfire."

"Down on the ground!" Georgia recalled someone screaming at her. She was too terrified to move.

Chase, always timid even when there was nothing to fear, did what he did best -- he ran. He ran away from the men in black, zipped past Georgia at the stove, Georgia recalled. The screaming, running men followed Chase, shooting as he tried escaping into the dining room, Georgia said. She watched in horror as men in black rushed the dining room from all directions. "I could hear Chase whimpering," Georgia said. Then she heard someone shoot at Chase again, she said.

Men kept yelling at Georgia to get down, but she couldn't budge. "Somebody pushed me on the ground, and they put a gun to my head," she said. Face down on the kitchen floor, Georgia felt someone yank her hands behind her, rip the spoon away and secure her hands. When she lifted her eyes, she could just see Payton's big head resting near the kitchen threshold. He wasn't moving.

"Where are they?" one of the men screamed at Georgia. "Where are they?"

She had no idea what he was talking about. Georgia says she felt the barrel of an assault rifle against her left ear. "Where are they?" a man demanded.

"In the basement?" Georgia remembers saying. Some of the men thundered down the basement steps.

"It was a question, 'In the basement?' Because, if somebody puts a gun to your head and asks you a question, you better come up with an answer. Then I shut my eyes. Oh, God, I thought they were going to shoot me next."

Upstairs, Cheye fell to the bedroom floor at the sound of gunfire. He heard: bang, bang, bang, bang, undecipherable shouts, bang, bang.

"Downstairs!" Cheye heard men call to each other as they began to search the house. Then, more ominously, they yelled: "Upstairs! Upstairs!"

"I'm up here," Cheye recalled calling out. "Please don't shoot. Please don't shoot."

Somebody ordered Cheye to come down. He stood gingerly and peered down the stairwell. "I remember turning and seeing the barrels of two shotguns pointed at me," he said. "I don't know what kind. I'm not a gun person."

"Turn around and walk down the stairs backwards," someone demanded.

So, he did. Clad only in his boxer shorts, the mayor of Berwyn Heights walked slowly down his staircase backwards, his open hands held high. Ever so slowly, he felt for each tread before lowering his weight. "Somewhere around the bottom half of the stairs, someone came to get me," he recalled. "They led me down, pulled my hands down behind my back, bound me with those plastic cuffs very tightly, then pulled me across the living room."

Cheye turned his head and saw Georgia facedown on the kitchen floor. She must be alive, he reasoned, because there was a man holding a gun to her head.

Screw it, I'm starting to lose faith in law enforcement.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: BloodEagle on February 02, 2009, 12:17:35 pm
Old news. Still disturbing.  :eek2:
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 02, 2009, 02:51:51 pm
Another article like it, from 2004...
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-08-05/news/dog-day-afternoon
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 02, 2009, 02:56:01 pm
How about the one where some plain-clothed police officers in an unmarked van beat a 12 year old girl for resisting when they decided she's a prostitute and try to drag her out of her yard?

And then arrest her three weeks later for assaulting a public servant.

They still say they didn't do anything wrong. (http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2008/12/galveston_false_arrest.php)
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: redsniper on February 02, 2009, 04:08:55 pm
Frickin' Galveston...
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Galemp on February 02, 2009, 05:25:25 pm
I'm looking forward to some real reform in this department by Obama's administration. Sadly we have bigger problems to work with at the moment (The economy, Iraq.) If we ever reverse those horrible issues to where we were in, say, 1998, then we can work on resolving issues that were important issues in 1998. Like the War on Drugs.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: MP-Ryan on February 02, 2009, 06:26:33 pm
Reading that just makes me ill - and glad I live in Canada, where it seems police departments try to take a more measure, rational approach.  What I can't believe is that there were no consequences for the detectives who botched that.

Controlled deliveries are dicey affairs, but they should be doing their homework before rushing in, guns blazing, with no thought that ANYONE can mail virtually ANYTHING to ANYWHERE.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 03, 2009, 03:22:26 am
Reading that just makes me ill - and glad I live in Canada, where it seems police departments try to take a more measure, rational approach.  What I can't believe is that there were no consequences for the detectives who botched that.

Controlled deliveries are dicey affairs, but they should be doing their homework before rushing in, guns blazing, with no thought that ANYONE can mail virtually ANYTHING to ANYWHERE.

Reading that makes me angry as well. I want to slap the person who authorized that across the face with an M4A1 and see how he likes that. I had the utmost respect for Law Enforcement until I read that article.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: TrashMan on February 03, 2009, 07:21:17 am
t's terrible. Such people give the police a bad name.

But don't  forget these are isolated incidents. The media love bad news.

The more you restrict the police, the less effective it becomes. I know what I'm talking about.

I live in a country where the police used to have a whole LOT of freedom. The criminals were scared ****less of the police, people respected them.

Now they have no power whatsoever. They can't as much look at anyone the wrong way. They became impotent - a laughing stock. There are more jokes about policemen going around than there are blonde jokes. And in those jokes the blondes end up smarter than your average cop.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 03, 2009, 07:49:11 am
t's terrible. Such people give the police a bad name.

But don't  forget these are isolated incidents. The media love bad news.

The more you restrict the police, the less effective it becomes. I know what I'm talking about.

I live in a country where the police used to have a whole LOT of freedom. The criminals were scared ****less of the police, people respected them.

Now they have no power whatsoever. They can't as much look at anyone the wrong way. They became impotent - a laughing stock. There are more jokes about policemen going around than there are blonde jokes. And in those jokes the blondes end up smarter than your average cop.

Too true.

I also agree with the rest of your point there, catching criminals isn't so effective when anything remotely helpful is barred by a wall of paperwork. I do still have respect for law enforcement, but those instances where the Police miss something obvious, like the house of the Mayor, just drives me insane. I suppose the time a guy got shot dead in the Londonunderground after the 7/7 bombings (Was that the proper date?), I mean, you never know when someone's going to pull a gun, and in those circumstances I don't know if I would've acted differently. And today's cops are pretty well trained, but high-level cock-ups do nothing to help the reputation of the police, especially shooting dead a dog AND giving false testimony about the dog. I know we don't know for sure about who was telling the truth, but still.  :doubt:

Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 04, 2009, 11:11:46 am
But don't  forget these are isolated incidents. The media love bad news.

Isolated compared to what?

Over a nine-year period, 298 Milwaukee police officers shot 434 dogs. (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/35288314.html)

Here's some in Ohio shooting a mother and her infant. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/us/30lima.html?_r=1)

You (http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/) can (http://www.november.org/stayinfo/breaking07/TeenRaid2.html) say (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/nyregion/16narcotics.html) "isolated," (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/nov/21/nation/na-juveniles21) but (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/18/local/me-arrest18) there (http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/09/local/me-melee9) is (http://www.dailytexanonline.com/2.4489/1.957604-1.957604) no (http://www.click2houston.com/news/15157798/detail.html) end (http://blog.simplejustice.us/2007/08/06/5-year-old-boy-shot-dead-cops-clam-up.aspx?results=1#SurveyResultsChart) to (http://www.tylerpaper.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070905/NEWS01/709040329) these (http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Cops_suspected_of_hate_crime_after_1115.html) links. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-12-17-copmisconduct_n.htm)

Police misconduct is not rare.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Nuke on February 04, 2009, 01:54:44 pm
they just need to leegalize drugs
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Goober5000 on February 04, 2009, 01:56:08 pm
they just need to leegalize drugs
For once I agree with Nuke.

It's just Prohibition all over again.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Rick James on February 04, 2009, 02:31:44 pm
they just need to leegalize drugs
For once I agree with Nuke.

It's just Prohibition all over again.

Is it? If drugs are legalized, it would only mean people acquiring their stuff from a legitimate outlet, which would likely mean individuals needing to meet certain standards before getting their high. Illegal sellers would try to undercut the market and, when demanded to stop, would simply say "No" and continue to operate as normal. Nothing will have changed.

And this is not Prohibition all over again. Prohibition was stupid, yes, and the stupidity of that ban was eventually realized. It was stupid because we know the effects of alcohol--and, no matter what drink one orders, it's still alcohol, and we have a better understanding of it now than we did decades ago--and for the police and rehab groups, knowing what abuse of alcohol does to a person makes their respective jobs a lot easier.

But if drugs are granted blanket legalization, we will be giving tacit permission for the unwary, the underexperienced, the curious and the drug lords to create and consume new and different breeds of chemicals that could could come with long-term effects far worse than those of alcoholism or even heroin addiction. We could very well end up with addiction disorders the likes of which the world has never seen--or should ever see.

There are, of course, the possible scientific benefits from such free experimentation, but the potential for harm to be wrought before a positive discovery is made is, in my mind, simply too great. Science that harms is not science.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: karajorma on February 04, 2009, 05:18:25 pm
Legalise wireheading! :p
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Turambar on February 04, 2009, 05:28:37 pm
Who was saying legalize all drugs?

Just make it so i can smoke the reefah and chillax and play soul calibur without anyone breaking down the door and shooting my dog  (dog is for effect, i really have a kitty, and i would be really sad if they shot her).
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 04, 2009, 05:32:40 pm
Better train kitty not to charge at the po-po, Fluffy.

Legalize all drugs. Explain the risks, but don't arrest people for making bad decisions. There are bigger things to worry about!
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: The E on February 04, 2009, 05:36:18 pm
But if drugs are granted blanket legalization, we will be giving tacit permission for the unwary, the underexperienced, the curious and the drug lords to create and consume new and different breeds of chemicals that could could come with long-term effects far worse than those of alcoholism or even heroin addiction. We could very well end up with addiction disorders the likes of which the world has never seen--or should ever see.

Hmmm. As someone who has been around alcohol addicts most of his life, i wonder how the "heavier" drugs could POSSIBLY be worse if legalized.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: IceFire on February 04, 2009, 05:48:56 pm
Reading that just makes me ill - and glad I live in Canada, where it seems police departments try to take a more measure, rational approach.  What I can't believe is that there were no consequences for the detectives who botched that.

Controlled deliveries are dicey affairs, but they should be doing their homework before rushing in, guns blazing, with no thought that ANYONE can mail virtually ANYTHING to ANYWHERE.
I do have to agree that our law enforcement is usually pretty good.  Sometimes it does mean they do have to sit back and not do something when I sometimes think they should.  The last round of native protests got a bit out of hand but the RCMP was incredibly restrained...I wonder how that would have gone down in the US.

But thats not to say that we don't have some of these sorts of things going on as well.

Sounds like this one particular incident went totally out of control.  None of those people were armed from the story (minus a spoon!)...and yet shots were fired? That seems totally out of line!  Where are the rules of engagement there?
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 04, 2009, 05:54:56 pm
Even if 10% of our cops are involved in misconduct, that's still a lot of dead puppies.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 04, 2009, 06:27:45 pm
One of the things about these stories no one seems to have hit upon is what happens afterwards.  The break down your door, break your windows, toss their flash bangs causing not only breakage but smoke damage as well and kill your pets.  Then they find out it's the wrong place and guess what?  You are responsible for everything.  They cannot be held accountable because they obtained a search warrant.  Doesn't matter that they screwed up and put the wrong address on it.  The judge signed it it's legal and you have no recourse.  This may not be true everywhere as people are trying to get laws changed because of incidents like these but in most places it is. 
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 04, 2009, 06:29:22 pm
I like when the cops at my school spend all their time arresting kids for pot and truancy instead of protecting us from getting mugged in the ****ing parking lot. That's a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 05, 2009, 02:07:59 am
One of the things about these stories no one seems to have hit upon is what happens afterwards.  The break down your door, break your windows, toss their flash bangs causing not only breakage but smoke damage as well and kill your pets.  Then they find out it's the wrong place and guess what?  You are responsible for everything.  They cannot be held accountable because they obtained a search warrant.  Doesn't matter that they screwed up and put the wrong address on it.  The judge signed it it's legal and you have no recourse.  This may not be true everywhere as people are trying to get laws changed because of incidents like these but in most places it is. 

I agree, somehow, the Police are never wrong, and fabricating a story to cover their own asses is perfectly a-okay.

I like when the cops at my school spend all their time arresting kids for pot and truancy instead of protecting us from getting mugged in the ****ing parking lot. That's a lot of fun.

Well now does anyone who gets mugged in the parking lot talk?

I'm going to assume the majority don't out of fear of reprisals, its a vicious cycle and there isn't a lot you can do about it. Other than turn around and punch the **** in the face and tell him to give HIS money or you'll show him how the hood of a car tastes like (plenty of fun for those of you that get in fights in parking lots).
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 05, 2009, 06:30:52 am
Uhh... well, kids have been getting mugged at gunpoint and knifepoint walking to school. One kid got the **** kicked out of him right after school in the student parking lot. And last month a vice principal got mugged in the teacher parking lot. We're in the news rather a lot.

If you're on school property and you even threaten to fight back, you get suspended, so... yeah, we're supposed to rely on rent-a-cops. And the Raleigh police. Who don't give a damn.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 05, 2009, 06:37:26 am
Uhh... well, kids have been getting mugged at gunpoint and knifepoint walking to school. One kid got the **** kicked out of him right after school in the student parking lot. And last month a vice principal got mugged in the teacher parking lot. We're in the news rather a lot.

If you're on school property and you even threaten to fight back, you get suspended, so... yeah, we're supposed to rely on rent-a-cops. And the Raleigh police. Who don't give a damn.

Can't you argue the suspension and say it was self-defense or something? While I do have respect for the Police, reaching for your phone to call  the cops instead of the guy's knife or whatever is kind of a stupid way to ensure the safety of students. Your school sounds like it's in the middle of the Bronx or something, I don't think I would even go to school with all that **** happening, a suspension sounds waaaaaay better than losing my money/integrity/self-esteem.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 05, 2009, 06:41:04 am
Well, that's life. The school is in a rough area, but no high school is safe. :\
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 05, 2009, 06:52:56 am
Well, that's life. The school is in a rough area, but no high school is safe. :\

......and I thought some of the high schools around here were bad   :shaking:

Well if it's in a bad area I guess that's what's to be expected, you get used to it, or like the 'feel' at least
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 05, 2009, 06:57:41 am
Yeah, pretty much. Get to school early and park in front of the building, don't try to look wealthy, etc.

I wish we were allowed to carry, like, mace or something. The security guards aren't, so they're pretty much useless. They just ride around on bikes and check for lunch passes when people try to go off campus.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 05, 2009, 07:06:00 am
Yeah, pretty much. Get to school early and park in front of the building, don't try to look wealthy, etc.

Same goes here too, except guns and knives being used isnt soo commonplace.

The security guards aren't, so they're pretty much useless. They just ride around on bikes and check for lunch passes when people try to go off campus.

That sounds like a bloody joke. I knew about schools with Security Guards like that, about as useful as a Monk in a whorehouse. They hardly made a difference, in fact one of the companies refused to keep throwing their guys at one of the really bad schools which is practically in the 'slums' unless the school/government overturned their ban on weapons being used by security companies at schools....or soo I heard anyway, I can't imagine a school even needing security within 50 miles of where I live.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Nuke on February 05, 2009, 04:24:07 pm
the school i went to had way too much security. considering it was a place for psychoes like myself so i guess that wasnt a bad thing. you had to go through metal detectors each time you entered or left the building. and they would always go off no matter how few buttons you had in your clothing. so youd get a nice frendly close in scan with a hand want and a friendly patdown at least twice a day. you had to fight to smuggle cds and computer games into the place. mp3 players were in there infancy back then. i knew this one kid who had an 8 meg diamond rio, dispite that he couldnt even carry a full album on the thing, it made him pretty popular. i remember i had a huge stack of 34 floppy disks i used to move games and music around. anyway the security guards to student ratio was so big that you were on a first name basis with all of them, the guy youd talk sports with on tuesday would be one of the guys who knocks you to the floor on wednsday when you look at another student crosseyed or tried to escape. sorta made up for our lack of a football team. if you managed to get out of the building they would call the cops.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 06, 2009, 01:33:09 am
the school i went to had way too much security. considering it was a place for psychoes like myself so i guess that wasnt a bad thing. you had to go through metal detectors each time you entered or left the building. and they would always go off no matter how few buttons you had in your clothing. so youd get a nice frendly close in scan with a hand want and a friendly patdown at least twice a day. you had to fight to smuggle cds and computer games into the place. mp3 players were in there infancy back then. i knew this one kid who had an 8 meg diamond rio, dispite that he couldnt even carry a full album on the thing, it made him pretty popular. i remember i had a huge stack of 34 floppy disks i used to move games and music around. anyway the security guards to student ratio was so big that you were on a first name basis with all of them, the guy youd talk sports with on tuesday would be one of the guys who knocks you to the floor on wednsday when you look at another student crosseyed or tried to escape. sorta made up for our lack of a football team. if you managed to get out of the building they would call the cops.

Wow, that's like....insane.....
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Grizzly on February 06, 2009, 02:26:32 am
If you legalize drugs, you can regulate it, monitor it, and charge tax over it.

Especially the last thing should be usefull :P.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 06, 2009, 02:58:41 am
If you legalize drugs, you can regulate it, monitor it, and charge tax over it.

Especially the last thing should be usefull :P.

Amen to that, the government would be all over it if someone put that forward.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 06, 2009, 06:35:01 am
People do. Every day. But people could easily just grow their own and sell it to their friends to avoid taxes.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Hellstryker on February 06, 2009, 04:44:58 pm
People do. Every day. But people could easily just grow their own and sell it to their friends to avoid taxes.

Not that I do drugs, but if I did a certainly wouldn't sell them to my friends. If you're selling something to somebody, chances are you're not very close.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Nuke on February 06, 2009, 04:49:59 pm
you can still get bootleg booze, but its usually some local blend that doesnt travel far, not a lot of demand for it. pretty much the same as it would be if weed was legalized. i sorta like the idea of being able to get a pack of blunts at 711, instead of from an armed felon with a hot temper and a warrant out for his arrest. taxes on it would cover the expenses that legalized use would cause and generate other funds, which could be used to help the cops hunt down child molesters rapists and crooked politicians.

people growing their own isnt the problem. small beans like that doesnt cause any social problems. the problems come from high volume production, sales and distribution that fund organized crime. id rather the government skim off those profits and put them to good use, than a bunch of thugs using the proceeds from drug sales to fund their sex slave trade or international arms deals, or sometimes funding the occasional fascist dictator. if weed were legalized, i dont think the ones who would profit from illegal dope sales would be able to compeet with the legal market and turn a large profit.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: ssmit132 on February 06, 2009, 07:55:32 pm
You know, this whole thing reminds me of Damian Cray's plan in Eagle Strike :nod:: (Truncated to stick to the point)

Spoiler:
"But I know how to end it. I've worked it out. And that's what Eagle Strike is all about. A world without drugs. Isn't that something to dream about, Alex? Isn't that worth a few sacrifices? Think about it! The end of the drug problem. And I can make it happen.
(Infodump on where the principal sources of drugs are)
"These are the principal sources of the world's drug problem. This is where the trouble all starts. These are my targets.
...
"This key will give me access to two and a half thousand nuclear missiles. These are American missiles and they are on hair-trigger alert - meaning that they can be launched at a moment's notice. It is my intention to override the NSA's system and to fire twenty-five of those missiles at targets I have carefully chosen around the globe.
It is almost impossible [pshaw!!!] to imagine the devastation that will be caused by twenty-five one-hundred-ton missiles exploding at the same time. South America, Central America, Asia, Africa... almost every continent will feel the pain. And there will be pain, Alex. I am well aware of that.
"But I will have wiped out the poppy fields. The farms and the factories. The refineries, the trade routes, the markets. There will be no more drug suppliers because there will be no more drug supplies. Of course, millions will die. But millions more will be saved.
"That is what Eagle Strike is all about, Alex. The start of a new golden age. A day when all humanity will come together and rejoice.
"That day is now. My time has finally arrived."

Although I was annoyed by everyone calling him 'insane' (in a way - how he doesn't care about all the innocent casualties and environmental damage (which is quite out of character for him) means something is wrong with him), as it's quite a smart plan. Just replace the nukes with Particle Beams and then that would keep civilian deaths to a minimum. But that's beside the point. The point is, that this would a surefire way to actually stop the drug problem. Well, maybe. :nervous:

And also, what would the rest of the world think? :nervous:
But since I care about people, I can think of a much better way: Find a use for marijuana, opium and all that that doesn't hurt people but is actually beneficial. Maybe we can make an alloy with some drug which is really useful or something. :p (Ugh, that's a stupid idea. :snipe:)
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: redsniper on February 07, 2009, 03:59:59 pm
You could never get them all, and even if you did people would just make more - poppy fields and refineries and such, I mean.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 07, 2009, 04:15:02 pm
i sorta like the idea of being able to get a pack of blunts at 711, instead of from an armed felon with a hot temper and a warrant out for his arrest.

I'm still in high school. We all buy from classmates, not criminals.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: captain-custard on February 07, 2009, 04:29:52 pm
i sorta like the idea of being able to get a pack of blunts at 711, instead of from an armed felon with a hot temper and a warrant out for his arrest.

I'm still in high school. We all buy from classmates, not criminals.


technically you are criminals....


but hey


just remember that drugs will turn you into your parents
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 07, 2009, 05:10:33 pm
Okay, correction: we aren't violent criminals.

As long as I don't do coke, I'm safe, then.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: ssmit132 on February 07, 2009, 06:18:54 pm
You could never get them all, and even if you did people would just make more - poppy fields and refineries and such, I mean.
That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Nuke on February 07, 2009, 08:21:43 pm
i sorta like the idea of being able to get a pack of blunts at 711, instead of from an armed felon with a hot temper and a warrant out for his arrest.

I'm still in high school. We all buy from classmates, not criminals.

well at the user level it seems all innocent and happy but those drugs had to come from somewhere. some cartel had to sell them to some smuggler, who moved it around and sold it to sold local organized crime group for twice the price (whether it be some dignified italian family, the ever cultured russian mafia or your friendly neighborhood crips), who in turn sold it to small time dealers for twice the price again, who cut it up and sold it to some reputable clients and a few smart kids looking to cut out the middleman (or get shot or pressured into trying crack). those reputable clients are usually friendly hippies, and at that level you stop seeing firearms (which get progressively larger as you move up the supply chain). those hippies take their qp bag and split em up into nickles and dimes for the high school kids and those are the ones who your friends got it from.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 07, 2009, 08:40:39 pm
actually, most of it is grown by other high school/college students. usually from more rural areas. or fayetteville. :P dirt cheap and not exactly high-end stuff.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: BengalTiger on February 07, 2009, 09:03:29 pm
What the christ. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/23/AR2009012302935.html)

Some more info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights_drug_raid

Whoever ordered the raid should be roundhouse-kicked. Twice.

Here's some in Ohio shooting a mother and her infant. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/us/30lima.html?_r=1)

From the article:

Tarika Wilson had six children, ages 8 to 1. They were fathered by five men, all of whom dealt drugs, said Darla Jennings, Ms. Wilson’s mother.

This turned on a warning light for me.
People who have 6 kids with 5 drug dealers (and no other than the mother tells about it) aren't angels, I wouldn't be surprized if she was sky high when the cops came (although the sister said she didn't do drugs, I'd bet $100 that she was lying), and became agressive or even grabbed a gun (if you live with drug dealers, there's often a whole collection of illegal firearms lying around the house).
It's sad the child got hit too though, good thing he's alive.

Another quote:

Junior Cook was a neighbor of Tarika Wilson. He says that he watched from his front porch as the SWAT team raced across his front yard, and that seconds later he watched a police officer run from Ms. Wilson’s house carrying a bleeding baby in a blanket.

“The cops in Lima, they is racist like no tomorrow,” said Mr. Cook, 56. “Why else would you shoot a mother with a baby in her arms?”

Looks like the cops wanted to fix the mistake of hitting the child. I'll bet the cop didn't even bother to spend time getting latex gloves on before evac'ing the kid. Pretty risky when the mother slept with at least 5 drug dealers.

And Mr. Cook didn't see where the baby was or what his mother had in her arms when SWAT were in the building. He does however say everything he could against the cops, because he is black, and "they is racist".

A couple of the other articles did show cops doing stuff they should get fired/imprisoned for, but stories based on stories told by 'witnesses' who didn't even see the event don't prove if there was anything wrong or not on the cops' side. Same thing with the stories that show just one side's version, and therefore only half the truth (the half that makes it a sensation obviously).
Also that Pasadena story proved the cops weren't out of line.

Uhh... well, kids have been getting mugged at gunpoint and knifepoint walking to school. One kid got the **** kicked out of him right after school in the student parking lot. And last month a vice principal got mugged in the teacher parking lot. We're in the news rather a lot.

If you're on school property and you even threaten to fight back, you get suspended, so... yeah, we're supposed to rely on rent-a-cops. And the Raleigh police. Who don't give a damn.

They should teach people that if you don't resist the attacker won't be agressive. Hell they should even punish for resisting, because it just causes unneeded danger on the victims side, and could escalate the situation.
They should also ban guns and knives near schools.

Oh wait....*

*-If the good guys were armed, and the criminals had a fair chance of getting their @$$ kicked while commiting crimes, they'd really consider a job with a life expectancy long enough to go home after work. The weapons bans near schools just create a safe area for everyone from the average bully to people like Seung-Hui Cho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho)
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 07, 2009, 09:23:50 pm
Unfortunately, most people would pull out a weapon and then be too scared to actually use it. Waving a gun/knife/can of mace around isn't going to scare anyone if you're a white jewish kid stuck in the ghetto because it's a pretty safe bet you aren't going to do a goddamn thing with it.

So everybody having weapons for self defense is a pretty good idea.. in theory.

MAYBE the cops should stop telling us to hide our ipods and only show up when something happens, and instead patrol the goddamn area and stop people from breaking into students' cars while they're in school trying to become smarter than the people who run the school/government/etc.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: redsniper on February 07, 2009, 11:48:45 pm
Well, you really should cover up or conceal anything expensive looking in your car.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Slasher on February 08, 2009, 02:05:19 am
everything he could against the cops, because he is black, and "they is racist".

For all we know, these particular ones are.  :confused:


They should teach people that if you don't resist the attacker won't be agressive. Hell they should even punish for resisting, because it just causes unneeded danger on the victims side, and could escalate the situation.
They should also ban guns and knives near schools.

Oh wait....*

*-If the good guys were armed, and the criminals had a fair chance of getting their @$$ kicked while commiting crimes, they'd really consider a job with a life expectancy long enough to go home after work. The weapons bans near schools just create a safe area for everyone from the average bully to people like Seung-Hui Cho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seung-Hui_Cho)

Given the time it takes to draw a pistol, Cho would have ended up killing someone anyway.  I don't understand what viable alternative you are proposing here, if any.  Allow open carry on school grounds?  Arm every student?  I do not want to go to a school where everyone has a gun.  That way, when a school shooting starts, only one idiot is trying to kill me.  Not 30+ other idiots who might kill me by accident.  For the record, I cannot afford a ballistics vest or anti-stab plates, nor do I want them. 

There are few demographics I would trust my life to such that I would arm them all and expect to be safe in a confined, crowded area.  Reports (http://pqx.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/9/3/303) about the accuracy (http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/viewContentItem.do?contentType=Article&hdAction=lnkpdf&contentId=872256) of the police during shooting confrontations (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/nyregion/08nypd.html?hp=&pagewanted=all) suggest these demographics should be limited to the Marine Corps.  Semper Fi.  :yes:

One of the things about these stories no one seems to have hit upon is what happens afterwards.  The break down your door, break your windows, toss their flash bangs causing not only breakage but smoke damage as well and kill your pets.  Then they find out it's the wrong place and guess what?  You are responsible for everything.  They cannot be held accountable because they obtained a search warrant.  Doesn't matter that they screwed up and put the wrong address on it.  The judge signed it it's legal and you have no recourse.  This may not be true everywhere as people are trying to get laws changed because of incidents like these but in most places it is. 

No joke, the LAPD actually has a special team that goes around and fixes the doors (http://www.google.com/search?q=lapd+wrong+door&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) of houses they've mistakenly served no-knock raids on.  Tax payer money at work.  :D

Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: BengalTiger on February 08, 2009, 08:05:47 am
You don't actually need each person to be armed to keep criminals away- if the victim is unarmed or unable to get his/her gun out, there could be a bystander who has a firearm and is willing to use it. If 1 out of 10 suspects gets stopped or shot while commiting a crime, all the others will tend to keep a low profile, or even leave the school area and find some safer place to work.

To the people here who don't want armed students- if they're under 21, have a criminal record, or fail a gun safety exam (there should be one IMHO, something like a DL exam, only at a shooting range), then they should remain unarmed.

As for the 'they is racist'- it seems that the black people in the community have problems too- they see snipers on the roof of the PD while the PD says they were photographers, they claim that the cops shot the woman because she was black, and a couple other things I don't remember right now.

However if the stories of harrasing are true even though the investigation showed they're not, they could have good reasons to raise the 'racist' flag.


This article says that NYPD scores 1/3 of their shots (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/nyregion/08nypd.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all). How does the USMC compare to that, in combat (let's say at close ranges), not at the shooting range?

And a quote from the article for those who didn't read it:

Officers’ guns go off unintentionally or by accident for a variety of reasons: wrestling with suspects, cleaning the weapons, leaning on holsters — even once, in 1996, when a gun was put in an oven for safekeeping.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Nuke on February 08, 2009, 04:06:54 pm
actually, most of it is grown by other high school/college students. usually from more rural areas. or fayetteville. :P dirt cheap and not exactly high-end stuff.

youre probibly smoking hermo plants then. in theory you should be smoking only female plants. but most growers will try to pass off anything they make, because when it comes right down to it growing dope is a 24 hour a day job and isnt exactly cheap. considering how much miracle grow you have to buy. and im told its a relentless battle against stoner mites who try to eat your product. to get around that problem you take your entire plant and dip it in a trash can which contains a water-dishsoap solution, and then again in another one containing water. its safer than pesticide and produces better weed. dont ask how i know this stuff.
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: FUBAR-BDHR on February 08, 2009, 04:26:42 pm
actually, most of it is grown by other high school/college students. usually from more rural areas. or fayetteville. :P dirt cheap and not exactly high-end stuff.

youre probibly smoking hermo plants then. in theory you should be smoking only female plants. but most growers will try to pass off anything they make, because when it comes right down to it growing dope is a 24 hour a day job and isnt exactly cheap. considering how much miracle grow you have to buy. and im told its a relentless battle against stoner mites who try to eat your product. to get around that problem you take your entire plant and dip it in a trash can which contains a water-dishsoap solution, and then again in another one containing water. its safer than pesticide and produces better weed. dont ask how i know this stuff.

We'll just assume you saw it on the Discovery channel.  ;7
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: Dilmah G on February 09, 2009, 01:34:16 am
actually, most of it is grown by other high school/college students. usually from more rural areas. or fayetteville. :P dirt cheap and not exactly high-end stuff.

youre probibly smoking hermo plants then. in theory you should be smoking only female plants. but most growers will try to pass off anything they make, because when it comes right down to it growing dope is a 24 hour a day job and isnt exactly cheap. considering how much miracle grow you have to buy. and im told its a relentless battle against stoner mites who try to eat your product. to get around that problem you take your entire plant and dip it in a trash can which contains a water-dishsoap solution, and then again in another one containing water. its safer than pesticide and produces better weed. dont ask how i know this stuff.

We'll just assume you saw it on the Discovery channel.  ;7


 :lol:

Oh yes......the err........ Discovery Channel
Title: Re: Business as usual for the War on Drugs?
Post by: iamzack on February 09, 2009, 06:37:02 am
actually, most of it is grown by other high school/college students. usually from more rural areas. or fayetteville. :P dirt cheap and not exactly high-end stuff.

youre probibly smoking hermo plants then. in theory you should be smoking only female plants. but most growers will try to pass off anything they make, because when it comes right down to it growing dope is a 24 hour a day job and isnt exactly cheap. considering how much miracle grow you have to buy. and im told its a relentless battle against stoner mites who try to eat your product. to get around that problem you take your entire plant and dip it in a trash can which contains a water-dishsoap solution, and then again in another one containing water. its safer than pesticide and produces better weed. dont ask how i know this stuff.

$4-5 per gram im meine Deutschklasse.