Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on February 16, 2009, 11:35:36 pm
-
I was hoping they learned their lesson about this, but evidently not: (http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257)
"A few days' testing of Windows 7 has already disclosed some draconian DRM, some of it unrelated to media files. A legitimate copy of Photoshop CS4 stopped functioning after we clobbered a nagging registration screen by replacing a DLL with a hacked version. With regard to media files, the days of capturing an audio program on your PC seem to be over (if the program originated on that PC). The inputs of your sound card are severely degraded in software if the card is also playing an audio program (tested here with Grooveshark). This may be the tip of the iceberg. Being in bed with the RIAA is bad enough, but locking your own files away from you is a tactic so outrageous it may kill the OS for many persons. Many users will not want to experiment with a second sound card or computer just to record from online sources, or boot up under a Linux that supports ntfs-3g just to control their files."
Re — Photoshop: That Photoshop stopped functioning after we messed with one of its nag DLLs was not so much a surprise, but what was a surprise: Noting that Win7 allows programs like Photoshop to insert themselves stealthily into your firewall exception list. Further, that the OS allows large software vendors to penetrate your machine. Even further, that that permission is responsible for disabling of a program based on a modified DLL. And then finding that the OS even after reboot has locked you out of your own Local Settings folder; has denied you permission to move or delete the modified DLL; and refuses to allow the replacement of the Local Settings folder after it is unlocked with Unlocker to move it to the Desktop for examination (where it also denies you entry to your own folder). Setting permissions to 'allow everyone' was disabled!
Re — media: Under XP you could select 'Stereo Mix' or similar under audio recording inputs and nicely capture any program then playing. No longer.
Yet another example of how DRM punishes paying customers (pirates always find ways around it, leaving them by and large unaffected). Next computer I get will have a windows XP/Linux dual boot, **** windows 7.
-
guess i'll continue to pirate, even with things i own then.
one day, it'll all be cleared up.
-
DRM = Prohibition for the 21st century
Funny how its going to end the same way.
-
Is this file locking out stuff any worse than it is on vista?
-
I don't recommend dual booting as it's more trouble than it's worth. If you're a windows user dual booting with xp and linux. Chances are xp will be the primary operating system for doing everything that you need. Thinking with this, it makes dual booting pointless. I'd just keep a good linux live cd on hand instead like knoppix or mepis if you primarily use xp.
This windows 7 thing is completely outrageous. Sort of similar to how vista doesn't have hardware accelerated sound. This is bs. Stick with xp or vista i guess, and have hope for reactos to get out of alpha.
The RIAA and MPAA are just a bunch of retards anyway. At least we live in an age with OS alternatives where there fingers have never touched.
-
Sort of similar to how vista doesn't have hardware accelerated sound.
Correction - it does support hardware accelerated sound, but it doesn't support the old DirectSound hardware acceleration extensions. OpenAL works and as a concept it's better than DirectSound (for much the same reasons I prefer OpenGL to Direct3D - multiplatform capability ftw) so as a whole, it might actually end up being a positive thing in the future when OpenAL developement is forced to reach higher levels and sophistication. What is bad about this is the way Microsoft dealt with the transition by simply dropping the support rather unceremoniously.
-
I don't recommend dual booting as it's more trouble than it's worth. If you're a windows user dual booting with xp and linux. Chances are xp will be the primary operating system for doing everything that you need. Thinking with this, it makes dual booting pointless. I'd just keep a good linux live cd on hand instead like knoppix or mepis if you primarily use xp.
Almost all of what I do now can be done with Linux, I would just keep XP around for the odd things that don't like WINE. The issue I have with using XP as my primary is that as time goes on it will descend into deprecation. It's already 7 years old and several major things like SATA and multi core processing weren't invented when the OS was written, so support was more or less tacked on instead of being fully integrated. At this point with all the DRM BS coming out of the new versions of windows I'm not too keen on ever using anything newer than XP. I might as well get used to Linux.
Of course at this rate it will probably be a couple more years before I will get a new computer, but I don't think things will change that much.
-
Oh now :wtf:, this Windows 7 Bull**** makes me want to walk over to Seattle, break Bill Gates' glasses and show him what we do to poindexters who screw up a perfectly good line of Operating Systems "Back where I come from!"
-
Take a vista cd with you, and show him where he needs to shove it...with force. We'll see how much he likes paying for vista then just as much as the rest of us.
-
[pedantic]Bill Gates is retired now, so you can't lay all the blame on him.[/pedantic]
I was hoping they learned their lesson about this, but evidently not: (http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257)
"A few days' testing of Windows 7 has already disclosed some draconian DRM, some of it unrelated to media files. A legitimate copy of Photoshop CS4 stopped functioning after we clobbered a nagging registration screen by replacing a DLL with a hacked version. With regard to media files, the days of capturing an audio program on your PC seem to be over (if the program originated on that PC). The inputs of your sound card are severely degraded in software if the card is also playing an audio program (tested here with Grooveshark). This may be the tip of the iceberg. Being in bed with the RIAA is bad enough, but locking your own files away from you is a tactic so outrageous it may kill the OS for many persons. Many users will not want to experiment with a second sound card or computer just to record from online sources, or boot up under a Linux that supports ntfs-3g just to control their files."
Re — Photoshop: That Photoshop stopped functioning after we messed with one of its nag DLLs was not so much a surprise, but what was a surprise: Noting that Win7 allows programs like Photoshop to insert themselves stealthily into your firewall exception list. Further, that the OS allows large software vendors to penetrate your machine. Even further, that that permission is responsible for disabling of a program based on a modified DLL. And then finding that the OS even after reboot has locked you out of your own Local Settings folder; has denied you permission to move or delete the modified DLL; and refuses to allow the replacement of the Local Settings folder after it is unlocked with Unlocker to move it to the Desktop for examination (where it also denies you entry to your own folder). Setting permissions to 'allow everyone' was disabled!
Re — media: Under XP you could select 'Stereo Mix' or similar under audio recording inputs and nicely capture any program then playing. No longer.
Yet another example of how DRM punishes paying customers (pirates always find ways around it, leaving them by and large unaffected). Next computer I get will have a windows XP/Linux dual boot, **** windows 7.
How do we know that this is supposed to happen and is not a bug?
And anyway, I myself have not had any problems with any Digital Rights Management, principally because I don't (I believe) do anything that it would choke on. I don't go around replacing DLLs just to get rid of nag prompts. And I've no problems with recording from my sound card in Vista. What's this rubbish about everything after XP not allowing you to do that? Recently I recorded something from a video in Winamp and it was a decent quality.
Also, have you read all the comments below that article? I agree with the person who posted the last comment - I think this guy jumped to conclusions that Windows 7 is overly restrictive. I'm not saying it isn't, it may well be, but I would like to see some more concrete evidence.
-
Maybe so, but it is true that Vista does have (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt) large amounts of DRM that weighs down the system (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html)
-
Maybe so, but it is true that Vista does have (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt) large amounts of DRM that weighs down the system (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html)
Yeah, UAC is just a hassle as well IMO. At least you can turn the thing off.
-
Maybe so, but it is true that Vista does have (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt) large amounts of DRM that weighs down the system (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html)
I read some of that essay from the first link. You may have a point about this extra bloat, but does that mean that the end user should not use Vista even if they don't have problems with it?
-
I love Linux...I'm not really that tech savvy either, and Ubuntu is great for me (I can usually google any problem I have and find a fix...). My younger sister just got a brand new laptop with Ubuntu on it, and she loves it. All she does is sit on facebook, type papers, and browse the internet.
-
I've found Vista is a significant step-up from XP in several ways and I've had nary a problem with DRM schemes. That said, this documented behaviour of the Windows 7 beta is unbelievable.
-
Maybe so, but it is true that Vista does have (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt) large amounts of DRM that weighs down the system (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html)
Yeah, UAC is just a hassle as well IMO. At least you can turn the thing off.
Yes, and compromise your computer's security against hackers and exploits. It's basically Windows' equivalent of sudo in Linux, and I strongly, strongly recommend leaving it on, even if you find it annoying.
-
Wasn't most of this present in vista? I just continue to use my method of having a short little stereo cable that routes my headphones to my line in and record that.
-
Maybe so, but it is true that Vista does have (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt) large amounts of DRM that weighs down the system (http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html)
Yeah, UAC is just a hassle as well IMO. At least you can turn the thing off.
Yes, and compromise your computer's security against hackers and exploits. It's basically Windows' equivalent of sudo in Linux, and I strongly, strongly recommend leaving it on, even if you find it annoying.
Very good comparison there. However certain users will still want UAC off. If you run an admin account all the time in vista, then you'll notice that UAC does nothing at all (so go ahead and turn it off). UAC in a standard user account in vista however is very much the equivalent of sudo in linux.
UAC is much better integrated into the system than xp's equivalent runas prompt.
I've also found vista to be a significant step up from xp as well. However, i don't have extra audio or video devices to be crippled by vista drm which is all that vista drm seems to care about. The not being able to play audio through unprotected devices in vista is more or less true. My room mates desktop with vista has a wierd sound configuration and he has a hard time switching between headphones and speakers.
-
Yes, and compromise your computer's security against hackers and exploits. It's basically Windows' equivalent of sudo in Linux, and I strongly, strongly recommend leaving it on, even if you find it annoying.
The problem with Vista's UAC is that it becomes so intrusive and unncesesary (e.g. moving files triggers UAC - WTF?) that people turn it off in anger, or automatically click yes without thinking, defeating its point entirely. You don't need to sudo on a Unix box except to change configurations and install software. I gather Windows 7 has made some changes so it doesn't come up with every single mouse click.
-
I think I'll stay with XP for a while. There'll be nice little packages around to make it look like the new versions. I don't really like the idea of GED [Global Electronic Domination].
-
The problem with Vista's UAC is that it becomes so intrusive and unncesesary (e.g. moving files triggers UAC - WTF?) that people turn it off in anger, or automatically click yes without thinking, defeating its point entirely. You don't need to sudo on a Unix box except to change configurations and install software. I gather Windows 7 has made some changes so it doesn't come up with every single mouse click.
UAC triggers if you try to alter files/folders in a folder that is not owned by the user logged in. It is just like sudo in linux in this regard. And you can always change folder permissions, recursively too if really needed.
-
All this makes me glad my copy of Vista is still sitting in the box on the floor unopened. XP pisses me off enough with it's nagging about this an that on my own file server (Novell Netware) in the trusted network. Sometimes even trying to delete a file by right clicking prompts no less than 3 popups.
-
I think I'll stay with XP for a while. There'll be nice little packages around to make it look like the new versions. I don't really like the idea of GED [Global Electronic Domination].
Aye. VistaVG Ultimate theme by Vishal Gupta (plus altered uxtheme.dll) and alpha-blended cursors are all I need to do, and it looks like Vista (and it really does look a lot better than XP default themes, so the psychological effect is there).
So far I haven't really required DirectX10 for anything either. I have higher hopes for OpenGL 3... :p
-
So how many of you can record from the sound card? I followed some instructions from somewhere to change the default in Recording Devices to Stereo Mix (IIRC) and it worked just fine.
-
Vista is a lot better with permission sets for different profiles than xp is. When you add a password to your account, it'll also give you the option of password protecting your whole entire user account folder in the users folder so no one else can in the least view your files contained in there (i recommend password protecting your whole entire user account...easy security, keeps people from just browsing the C drive from another vista user account to your user folder and gain access to your files in there).
Vista also borrowed another linux idea, which is keeping all of your configurations for everything inside of your user profile. That's the reason why games for vista will ask you if you want to store config data for a game in the documents folder or something or just plain old defaults to putting game config data in the documents folder of your user profile.
-
Vista is a lot better with permission sets for different profiles than xp is. When you add a password to your account, it'll also give you the option of password protecting your whole entire user account folder in the users folder so no one else can in the least view your files contained in there (i recommend password protecting your whole entire user account...easy security, keeps people from just browsing the C drive from another vista user account to your user folder and gain access to your files in there).
I had no idea about that :confused:
I'm totally turning it on now though
-
Uh, XP did also offer the option to protect user folder.
-
Windows has some excellent security features. Just take a look at everything you can do with Group Policy Objects. The security schemes are more versatile (albeit a little harder to manage) than those in Linux.
-
I think Windows 7 does a descent job of reducing the prompts to a manageable level. I don't run as an administrator, but as a user (just named my admin account "root") and whenever I install software I simply have to enter my password, etc. There are a few nags, but nothing more than Linux. Really not THAT annoying.
-
I think Windows 7 does a descent job of reducing the prompts to a manageable level. I don't run as an administrator, but as a user (just named my admin account "root") and whenever I install software I simply have to enter my password, etc. There are a few nags, but nothing more than Linux. Really not THAT annoying.
It depends on what you're doing. If you're constantly modifying files in the Programs Files Folder, then it becomes VERY tedious. Normal users shouldn't really have too much an issue with it. However if you're rig is lacking in RAM, the UAC takes a while to come up sometimes.
-
I think Windows 7 does a descent job of reducing the prompts to a manageable level. I don't run as an administrator, but as a user (just named my admin account "root") and whenever I install software I simply have to enter my password, etc. There are a few nags, but nothing more than Linux. Really not THAT annoying.
Easy security and easily maintaining a tight rig is "standard user account" (vista) and "restricted user" (xp's equivalent of standard user account). Like i said, vista is beautifully more convenient when running in user space. UAC is a great upgrade of the runas prompt in xp. UAC will also tell you what's going to happen when you do grant something temporary admin privileges. UAC is much more informational in a simplistic way compared to the graphical front ends to sudo like gksu (gnome) or kdesudo (kde).
It depends on what you're doing. If you're constantly modifying files in the Programs Files Folder, then it becomes VERY tedious. Normal users shouldn't really have too much an issue with it. However if you're rig is lacking in RAM, the UAC takes a while to come up sometimes.
It's not that bad. It's really about the same as running any linux distro (running in user space by default). Then again maybe you shouldn't have paid attention to the vista capable stickers :lol:
I guess you could try running the windows file manager with admin privileges. It'll keep admin privileges until you close whatever had them (works the same way with any program that you ran with admin privileges).
-
faith in windows 7 just died.
-
I'd say i dont have any faith in mikey soft anymore. They only put out to x86 architecture. They're totally losing out on ARM, SPARC, and powerpc processors. The whole thing with microsoft offering windows xp on netbooks is the best they could do to get into the netbook industry. It doesn't matter that windows netbooks are outselling linux netbooks, it's that linux has been running on just about every different processor architecture under the sun for years and still all microsoft supports still is nothing more than x86. Also linux was first on the netbook scene while windows lagged much behind before netbooks were being sold with xp.
My point is that even though windows netbooks outsell linux netbooks. Microsoft is struggling. They can't even put vista on the damn things, and i bet windows 7 wont be much different. With microsoft already struggling with netbooks, the future for netbooks gets even scarier. Netbooks that are even more power efficient using non-x86 processors and may most likely be cheaper than current prices.
Microsoft clearly needs to do a lot more, their asses are getting whipped.
-
Erm......you do know that Win7 optimised for Netbook usage? And that Microsoft is one of the biggest users of PowerPC-Chips out there? (The XBox 360 runs on them, IIRC)? And that Win Mobile is perfectly happy running on ARM? And that SPARC is virtually unknown outside the server/high-performance-computing community?
-
This is why I want out of I.T.
It's not fun anymore.
-
All current game consoles run on a Powerpc processor. I guess you need a rephrasing there.
Microsoft is one of the biggest distributors of powerpc based game consoles out there.
That's the xbox 360, not your desktop, not your moms laptop, not even my netbook. For computers microsoft still mainly caters to x86 computers.
I do know that win7 is optimized for netbooks. I'm just thinking that it's not going to be any better than xp for netbooks. Windows modularity is also a joke, this is another reason why windows is limited in the netbook arena. There's also the windows mobile platform which is also not as popular and does run on ARM. But will microsoft be smart enough to redesign windows mobile to a future ARM based netbook? My opinion is no.5 to that question.
I do know one thing, windows modularity will and still remain in the future a joke.
-
well maybe linux wont suck so much by then :D
-
All current game consoles run on a Powerpc processor. I guess you need a rephrasing there.
Microsoft is one of the biggest distributors of powerpc based game consoles out there.
That's the xbox 360, not your desktop, not your moms laptop, not even my netbook. For computers microsoft still mainly caters to x86 computers.
I do know that win7 is optimized for netbooks. I'm just thinking that it's not going to be any better than xp for netbooks. Windows modularity is also a joke, this is another reason why windows is limited in the netbook arena. There's also the windows mobile platform which is also not as popular and does run on ARM. But will microsoft be smart enough to redesign windows mobile to a future ARM based netbook? My opinion is no.5 to that question.
I do know one thing, windows modularity will and still remain in the future a joke.
Windows 7 only runs on x86, x86-64, and IA-64 because those are the only architectures that have any significant role in the consumer PC market. Why should they overhaul the operating system to run on architectures used in roles such as workstations and embedded systems that Windows is not even designed for? Intel is the only game in town for consumer computing, and it's been that way ever since Apple dropped the PowerPC processor.
-
Im staying with XP. The changed the feel of Vista too all of a sudden. Bring change slow.
-
Charismatic, try turning on classic mode in vista. The start menu in vista is virtually identical to that in xp. You can also turn on classic start menu in vista as well.
Microsoft still needs to jump on the bandwagon for alternative processor support. This is why microsoft is going to lose out in the netbook arena. Windows 7 is a good come back for x86 netbooks, but not for the more and more ARM based netbooks.
This has nothing to do with linux sucking either. Most people buy windows netbooks because they wanted windows, and that's very simplistic. Microsoft would be doing themselves a favor to overhaul an OS for a different processor architecture (like compiling their source code for ARM).
-
Note that those classic look features have been removed from win7 (At least, the Beta I'm using right now). It seems that MS basically wants you to relearn some things. And I, for one, completely approve. But then again, i was one of those people who never had any serious problems with Vistas UI, not even the much-maligned UAC.
-
Charismatic, try turning on classic mode in vista. The start menu in vista is virtually identical to that in xp. You can also turn on classic start menu in vista as well.
Microsoft still needs to jump on the bandwagon for alternative processor support. This is why microsoft is going to lose out in the netbook arena. Windows 7 is a good come back for x86 netbooks, but not for the more and more ARM based netbooks.
This has nothing to do with linux sucking either. Most people buy windows netbooks because they wanted windows, and that's very simplistic. Microsoft would be doing themselves a favor to overhaul an OS for a different processor architecture (like compiling their source code for ARM).
I don't think Microsoft cares about netbooks enough to bother optimizing their operating systems for them. There's not enough money to be made when the machine is less expensive than Windows 7 itself. They'd rather focus on full-fledged consumer PCs, where profit margins can be higher, and pretty much every consumer PC being made today is x86-64, the rest being IA-64 (SPARC machines and the like are workstations, not consumer PCs).
-
Users: BUT MOOOOOOOOOM!!! I LIKE, NEED CLASSIC MODE!
MS: THE WORLD CHANGES, JUST ****ING DEAL WITH IT, YOU'LL FIND IT'S NOT THAT UNFAMILIAR!
The vista ui isn't any different from xp's either. It just has a different theme. Although i think the alternate vista theme was a lot nicer looking (vista basic theme).
Apart from uac people are just complaining because the graphics look slightly different :lol:
The only reason why i hate aero is because in my opinion microsoft changed the look of the minimize, maximize, and exit buttons too much despite them having the same symbols.
That's the only reason why my dad had trouble using vista.
On the thought of windows 7 having no classic theme. This isn't bad at all. XP and vista have the ability to change themes and so will windows 7. Someone will make a windows classic theme for windows 7.
I'm glad microsoft wants people to relearn things. In this computing age you have to since stuff changes all the time. But, instead everyone's like "oh noes wherz me xp!!!". People are almost expecting to be able to use xp 10 years from now.
Oh, but microsoft does care about netbooks. Otherwise part of the reason for windows 7 being optimized for them wouldn't have happened. I guarantee you when windows 7 is out, a lot of netbooks will have it. Netbooks caught microsoft off guard in the facts that they can't put they're latest os on them, and that they didn't do much better by using xp instead. Oh, they do care, netbooks are popular and affordable and microsoft was very late and improperly prepared for the ball game.
Do yourself a favor and hop on amazon and compare the prices of windows xp netbooks with linux netbooks. You should find almost no difference in price. Maybe in hardware configuration, but not even that much. I don't think windows 7 on a new netbook in this recession is going to be pricey, but will still do microsoft a lot of good extending their powers on a new type of computing. But will windows 7 have the 25 second boot time on an ssd like i get with linux?
If people just buy netbooks for surfing the web and typing up documents. Then i don't see why people in these forums would be so opposed to owning a netbook powered by linux.
-
my problem with windows is that it tries to do more than an operating system should do, then does it poorly. vista 32 (i hear vista 64 is worse but havent used it yet) doesnt really bother me at all. it doesnt do anything that annoys me that i cant disable or find a hack for. i kinda like aero (though i use the classic start menu), and i always run with the highest account level possible. vulnerabilities usually comes from multi-user features so i disable anything that allows more than one user on the comp at any time. and i usually disable all but one user account.
but if win7 plans to do anything stupid, like not let me into my own files well then **** if i use it. when reactos reaches beta or my understanding of linux improves, there wont be anything preventing me from switching over.
-
Multi-user is rather secure as long as you custom name the accounts and password them all (patch the holes yourself). The only reason multi-user is ever unsecure is because no one password protected the default "Administrator" account, let alone didn't even rename it.
Someone hacking into your computer may get an easy pass at trying out logging into administrator with no password. That's why i recommend renaming the admin account as among password protecting it.
-
*cough* ophcrack (http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/) *cough*
-
*cough* ophcrack (http://ophcrack.sourceforge.net/) *cough*
Only works if you have a weak password. Ask any security professional out there.. strong passwords are strong passwords and will be very difficult to crack. Likewise, even the best security can be undone by a weak password. Last time I ran a brute force on my own password the estimated time to compute every possible hash for that password was 16 million years on my processor. In reality, it got the correct hash after 35 minutes, but for me thats "secure enough". And any administrative system where someone is seriously worried about the password getting locally brute forced either shouldn't be using local password authentication or should seriously look at the physical security of their unit.
-
I'm downloading the ophcrack livecd. This should be handy at work for retrieving passwords since most everyone at work uses simple password solutions. The worst i've seen was a username and password on a post it note taped next to the touchpad of a laptop. I guess they think that thieves are illiterate?
-
I'm downloading the ophcrack livecd. This should be handy at work for retrieving passwords since most everyone at work uses simple password solutions. The worst i've seen was a username and password on a post it note taped next to the touchpad of a laptop. I guess they think that thieves are illiterate?
haha yea. You might also want to check out Cain & Able. It has quite a few good security and auditing functions, including password cracking. A little more ocmplicated than ophcrack but more useful IMO. My favorite is dumping the LSA cache and seeing the admin password written in plain text. yay windows :rolleyes:
-
ROFL
-
Is this file locking out stuff any worse than it is on vista?
*cough*
-
Could you elaborate? What do you mean by "file locking out"?
-
Could you elaborate? What do you mean by "file locking out"?
Do you mean UAC?
-
I've had minimal problems with vista. not sure what everyone complains about :/
i almost never have problems with DRM, so i'm honestly not that conerned.
-
Oh right...yeh I meant UAC. I don't find it much of a problem on vista despite my frequent incursions into documents and settings/ program files to edit files. I just change the permissions.
The not being to delete system files bit bugs me though, but I can live with it.
If windows 7 isn't any worse than this or better, and offers other improvements, it could be worthwhile.
-
Oh right...yeh I meant UAC. I don't find it much of a problem on vista despite my frequent incursions into documents and settings/ program files to edit files. I just change the permissions.
The not being to delete system files bit bugs me though, but I can live with it.
If windows 7 isn't any worse than this or better, and offers other improvements, it could be worthwhile.[color]
Not being able to delete system files is to prevent regular joe from "cleaning" out his computer and deleting countless important system files. Happens...all....the....time. And I get to pick up the pieces often. So that is a huge benefit actually. For advanced users its a small price to pay.
-
My little brother deleted his pagefile once.
Hilarity ensued.
-
Oh right...yeh I meant UAC. I don't find it much of a problem on vista despite my frequent incursions into documents and settings/ program files to edit files. I just change the permissions.
The not being to delete system files bit bugs me though, but I can live with it.
If windows 7 isn't any worse than this or better, and offers other improvements, it could be worthwhile.[color]
Yes, because we all should delete system files :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I prefer that the option to delete system files not exist at all unless you're an admin. And if you're an admin, don't be grimper. You know, you like need system files. And the average user does **** their own **** up because they decided to turn on the show hidden files and show hidden system files and go deleting away (among also just plain old deleting files inside the windows directory).
If you delete system files you must be smart enough for troubleshooting or tweaking. Only non smart people delete system files without knowing what they're doing :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
"My Hard Drive told me it was getting full, and I found a lot of files I didn't want in C:\Windows\, in fact I never even saved those files, so I deleted them... why were there files on my hard drive that I didn't put there? And why doesn't my copmuter work any more?"
(http://faroutshirts.com/images/PEBKAC-Preview.png)
Personally, I think in the long run it might have been better if computer users weren't coddled so much, both in past and likely in the future. Doing stupid **** is a way of learning and perhaps after nuking their files once or twice people would actually learn to do things so that their data is safe, whatever they do. For example I only needed one such case (and it was only partial) and it was due to HP's repair DVD's stupid insistence on formatting the primary HD on the system (which, incidentally wasn't exactly where I wanted it to put the thing) and ended up putting the Windows on my backup drive. I was able to get most of the files back, but some stuff was lost forever... and that, my friends, is how I learned to brute force a solution to put the windows on the hard drive I want: Just keep that one drive attached at the time of installation and it can't go wrong. Of course, Windows' actual installer has slightly better options, but the HP recovery DVD was just crap in terms of telling what it was doing. The point is, I won't make the same mistake again...
Of course, wide-scale distribution and business PR pretty much require computers to be noob-friendly, which dictates that they end up somewhat frustrating for users who know what they are doing. Linuxi aren't limited by business, so they can give more freedom to users, but "noob-friendly" distros like Ubuntu still end up most popular of them. Linuxes still have their share of hardware support problems, obviously... but you don't see many Linux users who don't know that before editing xorg.conf it's a good idea to $sudo cp xorg.conf xorg.conf.backup.
-
Even in linux it's not too rare modifying system files, but never deleting them.
-
If you delete system files you must be smart enough for troubleshooting or tweaking. Only non smart people delete system files without knowing what they're doing :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Who said I didn't know what I was doing?
I wanted to delete an old driver file out of system32, but because of the security I can't.
-
Why did you want to delete it? Was it causing instability or something? In my Experience, going after those little thingies just because I can usually ends up causing more trouble than it's worth. It's not like you'd need to go on a system-wide driver hunt just to reclaim a few Kb of Memory and a few lost processor cycles at startup....
-
If grimper wants to get extremely scrutinous with his machine, then
LET HIM BE!!! let him run linux. Not for the learning experience it'd be, but he sounds like the kind of guy who'd just love to build his system package by package and only have on their what he wants only.
Building a system package by package with a debian netinstall isn't very hard nor do that many packages need to be grabbed either for a full desktop system much smaller in size compared to a vista install.
I'm still left going WTF why does vista take up nearly a 20gb partition (i still go wtf when any OS takes up more than 4gb after install)? I remember back with win98, the whole install only took up 280mb.
-
If you delete system files you must be smart enough for troubleshooting or tweaking. Only non smart people delete system files without knowing what they're doing :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Who said I didn't know what I was doing?
I wanted to delete an old driver file out of system32, but because of the security I can't.
You still can. Boot into safe mode.
Or failing that use a Linux live CD (like any Ubuntu distro) and remove the file :)
It sounds like you're a user ready for Linxu.
-
I recommend what icefire. Go into safe mode, but more importantly try out a linux livecd. I recommend MEPIS (http://www.mepis.org). Mepis is very easy and fun to use for intermediates like grimper. Mepis has surpassed what use to be knoppix's domain for the utility livecd for diagnosing problems, testing hardware, and fixing problems with. Mepis is also installable so you can put it on the hard drive do cool stuff like dual boot. Ubuntu as a utility livecd...yeah right. I haven't found the livecd session on ubuntu cds for anything better than sampling ubuntu before you install.
Using a livecd to delete files on a windows install is usually what i end up doing regardless of being in safe mode or not. A livecd is the only way guaranteed that i can delete or plain old manually backup system files without them being in use by windows.
But, yeah grimper, get mepis. Great utility livecd to have around even if you're a windows user. You can get ubuntu if you like, but i have a feeling you'll get tired of ubuntu where as mepis is a much cooler toy.
-
Funny how everyone makes completely bogus assumptions about me :lol:
Im not going to ellaborate, think I'll just keep you guessing. :P
EDIT: Ok maybe I won't, thats cruel seeing as you guys went to all the effort to give me recommendations.
I am definately not ready to construct a new computer file by file, I don't know squat about hardware, and I dont know anything about the innder workings on my computer except program files and control panel stuff.
Only wanted to delete that system file from info I got off forums, and I triple checked it, knowing what kind of damage it can do.
So thats my lets-get-to-know-grimper session, think i'll just leave you guys to your debates.
EDIT2: But I definately woudn't call myself a noob when it comes to computers. Confusing isn't it?
-
Internoob? :nervous:
-
*gasp*
-
from my experience with vista x64... its rather nice. uac gets turned off on first boot, aero gets the boot up its arse, stuff works correctly all the time, cracking anything pirated was easy. and... well :p
its tough to get used to but in the end its much more elegant than XP
(and due to my way of using xp, i didnt have a stable boot after 2 months tops. Vista is still running up and stable after... a year and so? :p )
-
You just admitted of committing three sins, six kittens died.
-
me?
i'm just illustrating my point, i've been using vista on and off on3 different pc's since it came out and i havent seen a single problem related to drm :p
"A pirate i was meant to beeeeee, trim the sails and roam the seaaa..." :p