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Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kosh on February 24, 2009, 04:30:29 am

Title: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Kosh on February 24, 2009, 04:30:29 am
 ****  (http://www.cnbc.com/id/29353282)


Quote
American Insurance Group, the insurance giant that is 80-percent owned by the US government, is in discussions with the government to secure additional funds so it can keep operating after next Monday, when it will report the largest loss in U.S. corporate history, CNBC has learned.

Sources close to the company [AIG  0.53    -0.01  (-1.85%)   ] said the loss will be near $60 billion due to writedowns on a variety of assets including commercial real estate.

That massive loss is likely to spur downgrades in its insurance and credit ratings that will force AIG to raise collateral that it doesn't have.

AIG

In addition, if AIG's book value falls below a certain level, as it seems certain to do, it will trigger default in certain of its debt instruments, say people familiar with the situation


I wonder how many more billions of dollars in bailouts will go down the drain.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Roanoke on February 24, 2009, 04:47:48 am
HBOS recently announced £28 billion loss, the biggiest in UK history (IIRC). 'bet those heady days of billion pond/dollar profits seem a long way away now huh ?
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: iamzack on February 24, 2009, 07:20:25 am
A lot of people are going to be very angry if any more businesses get bailed out. The Dems will have to call it something else. :[
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: BloodEagle on February 24, 2009, 01:49:10 pm
And yet, they still manage to purchase many T.V. advertising slots.  :no:
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: iamzack on February 24, 2009, 02:48:52 pm
They were likely purchased ages ago.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 24, 2009, 04:35:44 pm
****  (http://www.cnbc.com/id/29353282)


Quote
American Insurance Group, the insurance giant that is 80-percent owned by the US government, is in discussions with the government to secure additional funds so it can keep operating after next Monday, when it will report the largest loss in U.S. corporate history, CNBC has learned.

Sources close to the company [AIG  0.53    -0.01  (-1.85%)   ] said the loss will be near $60 billion due to writedowns on a variety of assets including commercial real estate.

That massive loss is likely to spur downgrades in its insurance and credit ratings that will force AIG to raise collateral that it doesn't have.

AIG

In addition, if AIG's book value falls below a certain level, as it seems certain to do, it will trigger default in certain of its debt instruments, say people familiar with the situation


I wonder how many more billions of dollars in bailouts will go down the drain.

Well, what are we going to do, let the company vanish, causing thousands if not millions of people to lose their insurance? We're bailing out major banks and other institution because huge numbers of American citizens depend on them. We can't allow people's insurance of savings to be wiped out, regardless of the costs.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Flipside on February 24, 2009, 04:51:03 pm
I'm not totally against bailouts as long as they don't take the form of 'here, have some of the sheeples money', as long as the stipulations attached are enough to ensure that (a) This is protected against a repeat performance, and (b) That the public money is protected as well, i.e. either no tax raise, or, if a tax raise is required, then an equal drop to below the current level until matters are balanced out once the system has stabilised.

Personally, I'd call them 'Citizen Funded Loans', and leave no doubt who's money was being handed out, and I'd put a time limit on the management for improvement or else they face being replaced.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: iamzack on February 24, 2009, 06:06:35 pm
AIG already got a bail-out, din't it?
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Daniel P on February 24, 2009, 06:19:40 pm
I'm not totally against bailouts as long as they don't take the form of 'here, have some of the sheeples money', as long as the stipulations attached are enough to ensure that (a) This is protected against a repeat performance, and (b) That the public money is protected as well, i.e. either no tax raise, or, if a tax raise is required, then an equal drop to below the current level until matters are balanced out once the system has stabilised.

Personally, I'd call them 'Citizen Funded Loans', and leave no doubt who's money was being handed out, and I'd put a time limit on the management for improvement or else they face being replaced.

They should worded better then bailout. But I am a optimist and I believe the economy will get better.

Always it a Cycle of up and downs.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Flipside on February 24, 2009, 06:21:32 pm
AIG already got a bail-out, din't it?

Good point, they got up to $85 Billion last September, judging by the fact they are still in trouble, I assume that has gone.

Yeah, in that case, Bailout alone may not be a good idea, I think it's going to take something more profound.

I'm not totally against bailouts as long as they don't take the form of 'here, have some of the sheeples money', as long as the stipulations attached are enough to ensure that (a) This is protected against a repeat performance, and (b) That the public money is protected as well, i.e. either no tax raise, or, if a tax raise is required, then an equal drop to below the current level until matters are balanced out once the system has stabilised.

Personally, I'd call them 'Citizen Funded Loans', and leave no doubt who's money was being handed out, and I'd put a time limit on the management for improvement or else they face being replaced.

They should worded better then bailout. But I am a optimist and I believe the economy will get better.

Always it a Cycle of up and downs.

Agreed, I do think things will improve, however, I don't think, or at least, I sincerely hope, that companies aren't expecting things to go back to the 'way they were', otherwise it will all happen over again.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Blue Lion on February 24, 2009, 09:59:33 pm
Companies given federal funds for a bailout should be required to give more detailed accounts of what they're doing with the money. I still think accepting federal funds should mean they can tell the companies certain things to do with it. I know that's a bold step though.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 24, 2009, 10:22:50 pm
I'm not totally against bailouts as long as they don't take the form of 'here, have some of the sheeples money', as long as the stipulations attached are enough to ensure that (a) This is protected against a repeat performance, and (b) That the public money is protected as well, i.e. either no tax raise, or, if a tax raise is required, then an equal drop to below the current level until matters are balanced out once the system has stabilised.

Personally, I'd call them 'Citizen Funded Loans', and leave no doubt who's money was being handed out, and I'd put a time limit on the management for improvement or else they face being replaced.

Regardless of how badly AIG ****s it up, their role in our economy means we have to haul their ass from the fire anyway or face worse consequences, even if some of these companies have to be outright nationalized, or at least their insurance policies, deposits, and/or other assets being distributed among healthier companies.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: StarSlayer on February 24, 2009, 10:37:05 pm
In AIG's case I think the bailout was meant to stabilize them for a gradual closure or merger, otherwise they would have flooded the market with their bad assets and mortgages at once causing a quite a bit of damage.  Unless the government changed their tune (which is certainly possible) it wasn't meant to get them back into the black. 

In any case the entire situation is shameful.  You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as they have, they would throw themselves on their swords.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Woolie Wool on February 24, 2009, 10:44:20 pm
I really don't think a return to the era of sponging-houses and debtor's prison is a good idea. Especially since banking and insurance tycoons aren't the only people who get irretrievably buried in debt.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: iamzack on February 25, 2009, 05:46:23 am

In any case the entire situation is shameful.  You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as they have, they would throw themselves on their swords.

Okonkwo hung himself.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: watsisname on February 26, 2009, 05:36:56 am
In any case the entire situation is shameful.  You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as they have, they would throw themselves on their swords.

Unfortunately, I think they forgot to bring their swords.
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Polpolion on February 26, 2009, 10:51:17 am
None of you had better be angry. (http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,61172.0.html)
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Flipside on February 26, 2009, 10:55:22 am
Everyone's angry, it's mankind's favourite emotion since it allow a wonderful mixture of judgementalism and self-righteousness all wrapped up in a neat little bundle ;)
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Roanoke on March 01, 2009, 05:53:22 am
I really don't think a return to the era of sponging-houses and debtor's prison is a good idea. Especially since banking and insurance tycoons aren't the only people who get irretrievably buried in debt.

No, they get £600,000 a year pensions and bonuses. Which the government could have blocked, but somehow didn't "notice" they could untill it's too late..... :wtf:
Title: Re: Biggest quarterly loss in US history
Post by: Galemp on March 01, 2009, 06:59:56 pm
[wario]BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!![/wario]