Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Killer Whale on February 27, 2009, 01:35:16 am
-
What do you think the hitpoints of a moon similar to earths' should be?
-
Take the hit points of a asteroid, then multiply that times how many of those
roids it would take to make your moon.
Course it all depends on what you plan on shooting it with and how long it should
hold up if at all...
-
dunno if that helps but the Vorlon Planet-Killer Beam in TBP's tables does 1.000.000 dps and it lasts 10 secs.... ergo 10.000.000 damge
although the beam just melts away the surface of a planets (see Babylon 5 TV series) you can be fairly sure that's the amount of damage your moon should be able to take before making its way of the stage
ps. sry if I'm not taking you seriously - why do you need that anyway?
-
:wtf: I hope this is just for tabling a moon skybox object, and not because you're supposed to be shooting it with Subachs.
-
I think not subachs, training lasorz would be enough.
-
Maybe it'll be for using the Harbinger's true purpose. :lol:
-
What do you think the hitpoints of a moon similar to earths' should be?
High enough to be completely indestructible.
-
Harbinger is 5Gigatons and takes away 3200 hitpoints, puts 1 GT at 640 hitpoints. Work out how many Gigatons of TNT would be needed to completely vaporise your moon and you have your answer.
-
A moon of Earths moon size can't be completely destroyed by conventional surface attacks I would think. If you were to blow it up from the inside, I believe the gravity is sufficient to keep all the fragments together. You would need a very large explosive device, larger than anything I believe exists IRL or in the FS2 universe. Targeting a moon of Earths moon size with Beam Weapons would just be the same as burning a rock with a magnifying glass I would guess.
To really blow one up, I believe you would need some sort of massive penetrating missile, like a bunker buster, with, say, the power of hundreds of Helios or something.
So, to be realistic, incredibly high. Massively high. As wollie said, pretty much indestructible.
-
Harbinger is 5Gigatons and takes away 3200 hitpoints, puts 1 GT at 640 hitpoints. Work out how many Gigatons of TNT would be needed to completely vaporise your moon and you have your answer.
Around 50,000,000,000,000 gigatons (5 x 10^13) for Earth, around 6 x 10^12 GT for the Moon. There's no weapon in FS that could do that, except maybe the Sathanas subspace weapon, but that seems more of a device that exploits properties of subspace/a star than a normal weapon.
-
Still, at least you could do orbital bombardments with them, I'd want to do that. :D
-
The FS engine really isn't capable of rendering realistic orbital bombardments. You would be better off with an FMV cutscene.
-
Planet .pof with building subsystems? :lol:
-
But Alpha 1 can do anything. Nothings indestructable. Not even a Sathy to a single bomber.
-
Last I checked, the Helios doesn't have "supercap" and thus cannot kill a Sathanas. Also, using game mechanics, especially "Alpha 1", in any discussion of actual physics or scenario building is stupid.
Keep in mind that in a real war, everyone is "Alpha 1". You, your wingmen, enemy fighters, and...the gunnery crew on the Sathanas. And they're all playing on Insane. One pilot trying to attack a Sathanas would be torn to pieces by flak turrets and several hundred Shivan fighters with pilots of similar skill to himself. Even one pilot against a cruiser would likely amount to little more than a clay pigeon for the AAA beams.
And you know that 10^12 GT figure I posted? That has to be delivered all at once. Try doing that in your puny bomber.
I could probably rant for hours in the incredibly trite, stupid, annoying direction that universe discussions always follow.
In general, no one seems to consider that real military people have brains. A freighter under attack by a pirate wing is probably going to jump away as quickly as possible unless it's right near a node that it needs to travel through. A Ravana attacked from behind is going to turn around. A fighter wing reduced to half strength is going to flee, either because of not wanting more casualties (GTVA) or not wanting to throw away units that could be used for something else (Shivans). Each side is going to do its damnedest to minimize its weaknesses and maximize its strengths. FreeSpace may be a game, but war is not a game, and a fighter pilot is just one tiny, tiny pawn in a war. Alpha 1's efforts mean very little in the grand scheme of things.
-
Well, Freespace 2 isn't the Second Great War. Its a game. So Alpha 1 does matter. A lot. By a lot, I mean victory hinges on whether on not Alpha 1 can blow up some cargo depot somewhere.
-
Well, in any case, there is no reason a planet should be destroyable. Period. Its hitpoints should be set so arbitrarily high as to be invulnerable. It's one thing to have ships take X damage, but we know how much gravitational binding energy a planet has, and it is many, many orders of magnitude higher than even the most optimistic calculations of beam cannon firepower. The Lucifer didn't even totally destroy Vasuda Prime's biosphere--"most" is not "all", and sterilizing a planet is absolute child's play compared to blowing it up.
-
IMO ML-16s are able to kill planets because planets are only a few meters wide.
-
IMO ML-16s are able to kill planets because planets are only a few meters wide.
Someone's had a few too many Bosch beers.
-
Why do you need to know? What are you planning to do with the moon?
-
if you're planning a planet destruction sequence I suggest to use SEXPs instead. Blowing a planet up conventionally is not a good idea.
-
Heck just keep ramming the moon enough :lol:
or worse yet... do the moon/earth grinding that your wingmen so love to do. :eek2: ;7
-
Wouldn't the effect be odd-looking? :p
-
Hahaha worse yet..... Use the Colossus as a baseball bat with the moon.
-
I wonder... would this be used for that Gurren Lagann idea mentioned a bit ago?
-
I wonder... would this be used for that Gurren Lagann idea mentioned a bit ago?
Hee...now that would be rather entertaining. :lol:
"Pierce through the heavens with your Perseus!!!"
-
It does seem improbable that any amount of Freespace 2 ship(s) could destroy anything of that size, unless they could create a blast radius/bomb size ratio similar to that of a nuclear bomb, and even then they would need to be under the surface and in numerous quantities.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
:wtf: at the picture.
-
Build a deathstar.
Just be sure to watch out for its strange new design flaws.
"Damn! They just took took out the station's only eyepiece!" /deathstar mk III flies into moon
-
It does seem improbable that any amount of Freespace 2 ship(s) could destroy anything of that size, unless they could create a blast radius/bomb size ratio similar to that of a nuclear bomb, and even then they would need to be under the surface and in numerous quantities.
If you did that you'd just have a moon with a lot more craters. Actually destroying it would take an amount of energy so stupendous that even the Shivans would take literally millions of years to generate it. It's just impossible to blow up a large moon with FS technology, period.
Also, most of the blast radius of a nuclear weapon is from the violent heat and shock waves created by dumping all that energy into the air. A nuke in space would be far less impressive.
Build a deathstar.
Just be sure to watch out for its strange new design flaws.
"Damn! They just took took out the station's only eyepiece!" /deathstar mk III flies into moon
How, exactly, is a FreeSpace civilization supposed to build a Death Star, never mind power it?
-
Generate a subspace rift to suck the core of the planet into subspace?
Or simply blow up a nearby star and let the supernova do the rest.
-
How, exactly, is a FreeSpace civilization supposed to build a Death Star, never mind power it?
The same way that anyone else would build and power a death star, you fool. I am surprised that I have to explain these things.
Wait, wait, I've got a better idea. The GTVA builds a hundred death stars! And they would be escorted by Disco Stars, which would have a hundred smaller projectors that could target fighters. The Death and Disco stars would in turn by protected by a Death Sun, which would envelop everything in a massive force field, creating a mobile solar system of angry, weaponized moons of DOOM. It would annihiliate entire dimensions just by entering subspace.
-
:lol: :wakka: @ picture
-
How, exactly, is a FreeSpace civilization supposed to build a Death Star, never mind power it?
The same way that anyone else would build and power a death star, you fool. I am surprised that I have to explain these things.
Wait, wait, I've got a better idea. The GTVA builds a hundred death stars! And they would be escorted by Disco Stars, which would have a hundred smaller projectors that could target fighters. The Death and Disco stars would in turn by protected by a Death Sun, which would envelop everything in a massive force field, creating a mobile solar system of angry, weaponized moons of DOOM. It would annihiliate entire dimensions just by entering subspace.
And this, folks, is why we can't have nice things like serious discussions on FreeSpace technology. :mad:
-
You're right. I'm sorry for being silly in the "hitpoints of a moon" thread. :(
-
The HP of a moon?
It's over 9000trillion!!!!!
-
And this, folks, is why we can't have nice things like serious discussions on FreeSpace technology. :mad:
Simple, rule of cool. :lol:
The HP of a moon?
It's over 9000trillion!!!!!
:lol:
-
Have any of you noticed that the thread starter has not yet replied?
-
Would the moon have a super-duper cap flag?
-
It's just impossible to blow up a large moon with FS technology, period.
Blow up the star.
-
Have any of you noticed that the thread starter has not yet replied?
Sorry, I was elsewhere for a day.
Why do you need to know? What are you planning to do with the moon?
Why, blow it up of course!!
I was thinking of the ogame universe and wondering how powerful the ships are in comparison to freespace.
it says this about the ogame universe deathstar
"The Deathstar is the ultimate ship ever created. This moon sized ship is the only ship that can be seen with the naked eye on the ground. By the time you spot it, unfortunately, it is too late to do anything.
Armed with a gigantic graviton cannon, the most advanced weapons system ever created in the Universe, this massive ship has not only the capability of destroying entire fleets and defenses, but also has the capability of destroying entire moons. Only the most advanced empires have the capability to build a ship of this mammoth size.
Structural Integrity 9.000.000
Shield Strength 50.000
Attack Strength 200.000
Cargo Capacity 1.000.000 units
Base speed 100
Fuel usage (Deuterium) 1 "
I was thinking it might take a lot more shots then is mentioned due to perhaps powerup. It also has 1000x s of rapidfire against most ships. Maybe 1000 shots..? Then convert that from their into freespacey terms by involving the moons hitpoints.
-
:doubt:
And people dare to say Inferno is overpowered.
-
And I've seen battles that involve 250 of these things. They didn't lose one strangely enough. I would scale down number of ships massively and wouldn't involve these in particular ships because they're a thousand times more powerful as the next ship in line. Oh, and i don't think Inferno is at all overpowered. Of course, I've never seen the Gargant.
-
And I've seen battles that involve 250 of these things. They didn't lose one strangely enough. I would scale down number of ships massively and wouldn't involve these in particular ships because they're a thousand times more powerful as the next ship in line. Oh, and i don't think Inferno is at all overpowered. Of course, I've never seen the Gargant.
The Gargant is only ~40km long anyway. It's not that big a deal.
-
Only?
-
Only?
Moon > 40km
Or did you not notice? :P
-
Please forget i said anything about the gargant and relent from debating on the power of Inferno ships.
-
Please forget i said anything about the gargant and relent from debating on the power of Inferno ships.
We weren't debating the power of Inferno ships.
What I was saying is that compared to this incredulous stupid dimension killing moon ship, of which there are 250, even Inferno can be classified as normal.
Srsly, moon-sized planet killer things? WTF?
-
Only?
Moon > 40km
Or did you not notice? :P
lol, I mean for the size of a ship compared to other ships. :P I know it's supposed to be a super juggernaut or something (I haven't been able to play Inferno at all for some reason) but that's gianormous compared to the Colossus and Sathanas.
-
Srsly, moon-sized planet killer things? WTF?
That's no moon...
-
Harbinger is 5Gigatons and takes away 3200 hitpoints, puts 1 GT at 640 hitpoints. Work out how many Gigatons of TNT would be needed to completely vaporise your moon and you have your answer.
Around 50,000,000,000,000 gigatons (5 x 10^13) for Earth, around 6 x 10^12 GT for the Moon. There's no weapon in FS that could do that, except maybe the Sathanas subspace weapon, but that seems more of a device that exploits properties of subspace/a star than a normal weapon.
That'll do
Now, for everyones sake, I repeat: I will most likely not use this ship in particular, unless it's got weaknesses enough, which I doubt, but the other ships that come with it, namely, a thousand times less powerfull.
Quick maths:
6x10^12 x 640 = 24 + 360 x 10^13 = 3840000000000000 = 3 840 000 000 000 000 = three quadrillion and eight hundred and forty trillion.
-
puts a light fighter at hitpoints of... 7.68x10^10
In other words, a few hundred light fighters would have better hull integrity then the gargant.
I'll think of a differant way of conversion, maybe: freespace sathanas = ogame destroyer
Direct unit for unit conversion: Hatshepsut = Ogame Destroyer
Or a guess, Scorpion = Ogame Light Fighter
-
Bring out the..... Reality Bomb!
-
is the only ship that can be seen with the naked eye on the ground
Beg your pardon, but you can see normal satellites from the ground at night time. Sure, they just look like fast, moving points of light, but you can see them from the ground with the naked eye. You'd easily be able to see an Orion or Hecate in relatively high detail.
-
Well, that's what the description for it in that game is, not real life, i'm sure can pretty much any ship from the ground, especially if it's got flashing lights on it. I dare say that if it was incorporated into freespace game it would contain a load on wtf!!?
-
Somehow I'd doubt you'd be able to see an orion in detail from earth, probably just a large fast moving star.
-
Somehow I'd doubt you'd be able to see an orion in detail from earth, probably just a large fast moving star.
Remember, you're talking about something that's over two kilometers long...in other words, a few times the length (and width) of the tallest structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Dubai) ever built. Satellites orbit the Earth at a wide range of heights, with low-Earth orbit generally defined as starting at a height of 160 kilometers. If you can pick out a ten-meter-long satellite in that orbit on a dark night, you'd see a whole mess of Orion if it were in the same orbit.
-
But can you see the Burj Dubai from space with the naked eye?
-
Burj Dubai? That's the first I've heard of that. Hmm, 818 metres tall when completed.
But you would see skyscrapers from the top. An Orion may be in any orientation.
-
Come on!! When are they gonna make something like the mile high sky Illinois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Illinois) a mile high apartment building in my book (designed 1956, and said at that time to be physically buildable).
-
Burj Dubai? That's the first I've heard of that. Hmm, 818 metres tall when completed.
But you would see skyscrapers from the top. An Orion may be in any orientation.
Plus it's not like you have as much sunlight reflecting off of it. It's diluted by the atmosphere twice, as opposed to once when looking at an orbiting object from the ground. On top of that, it's much more likely to blend into the background on the planet's surface.
-
Harbinger is 5Gigatons and takes away 3200 hitpoints, puts 1 GT at 640 hitpoints. Work out how many Gigatons of TNT would be needed to completely vaporise your moon and you have your answer.
You mean scatter its mass. Just vaporizing it won't destroy it, gravity will still hold the vapor together. GBE of the moon is approximately 1e29j.
1 gigaton is around 4.184e18j
So around 15,226,367,110,000 hp
-
Sounds like someone needs a good ol' Deathstar if they are planning on blowing up a moon...
-
1. Bore hole into moon with beam cannons
2. Insert meson bomb or a hundred
3. Explode moon
4. ??????
5. PROFIT!
And to whoever mentioned the Gurren Lagann campaign, that was my idea, which makes this thread quite relevant to my interests. :D
-
It says that the weapon is a graviton cannon. What does that do? How does it work? Cause if gravity is the main thing that holds a moon together...
-
It says that the weapon is a graviton cannon. What does that do? How does it work? Cause if gravity is the main thing that holds a moon together...
It probably shoots Gravitons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton) at stuff.
-
Check wikipedia on that.
And hey, I used to play OGame. With a FreeSpace Shivan OGame skin. And even wanted to make an OGame mod for FS, until I realised I can't get my models in-game. So I decided to use Inferno ships instead. Until I realised I can't FRED.
-
that's what i'm thinking of doing, but a couple of things to realise yet
but the ships do look like they'd fit well in freespace
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/202.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/203.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/204.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/205.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/206.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/207.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/208.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/209.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/210.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/211.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/212.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/213.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/214.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/gebaeude/215.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/evolution/img/background.jpg)
-
I've thought about that, too! :D
-
First: Find out functionality as fighting craft.
Second: Model Them
Third: Texture Them
Fourth: Table Them
Fifth: FRED Them
Sixth: Show em' off.
This topic is for number one, but does anyone have truespace? (i've got 7.6 but it isn't compat. with cobs and doesn't have trueview)
-
I might do modeling and tabling, and possibly even FREDding, but not texturing.
Any chance to make this go serious?
-
Wouldn't we have to make sure we can use those ship designs?
-
Post on the forums then, I guess?
If we would use the EpicBlue skin's ships, then it's allright, since those are from other sci-fis...
(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/202.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/203.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/204.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/205.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/206.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/207.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/208.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/209.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/210.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/211.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/212.gif)(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/213.gif)
(http://uni43.ogame.org/epicblue/gebaeude/214.gif)
-
It is perhaps possible to destroy a moon-sized mass with multiple nuclear warheads embedded at the proper depth. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyQ0jOqUWvU)
-
It says that the weapon is a graviton cannon. What does that do? How does it work? Cause if gravity is the main thing that holds a moon together...
Considering how weak gravity is, a graviton cannon would be pretty crappy compared to a laser, mass driver, or bomb.
-
It is perhaps possible to destroy a moon-sized mass with multiple nuclear warheads embedded at the proper depth. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyQ0jOqUWvU)
You'd need an ungodly amount of Warheads, or an incredibly powerful set of warheads to do that. The Earth would be absolutely battered by Debris as well.
-
Well, since this has drifted off-topic enough that the discussion is about how to destroy the Moon, I shall link to this (http://qntm.org/?destroy) and summarize below. Techniques are listed in order of plausibility.
Note that the link actually discusses destroying the Earth, but the same techniques apply. Recommended reading for all would-be evil overlords.
- 1. Annihilated by an equivalent quantity of antimatter
Create an entire moon made from antimatter and collide it with the real Moon. Alternately, depending on the technology you're using, flip half the Moon's mass to antimatter.
Take every single atom on the Moon and individually split each one down to become hydrogen and helium.
- 3. Sucked into a microscopic black hole
Simply place your black hole on the surface of the Moon and wait, while it sits and consumes matter until the whole Moon is gone.
- 4. Cooked in a solar oven
Focus an enormous array of mirrors to concentrate as much solar energy as you can directly on the Moon. This will cause the Moon to increase in temperature until it completely boils away, becoming a gas cloud.
A variation on this method involves turning the Sun into a gigantic hydrogen gas laser.
Accelerate the Moon's rotation until it starts moving fast enough to overcome gravity and flies apart.
Detonate a bomb so big that it blasts the Moon to pieces. You will need about 300,000,000,000 tonnes of antimatter.
- 7. Sucked into a giant black hole
Find a black hole and bring it and the Moon together (preferably by moving the Moon, otherwise Earth might get destroyed too.) Alternately, a neutron star might do the job.
- 8. Meticulously and systematically deconstructed
Dig up the Moon, a big chunk at a time, and boost the whole lot of it into orbit with mass drivers.
- 9. Pulverized by impact with blunt instrument
Find a really, really big asteroid, accelerate it up to some dazzling speed, and smash it into the Moon. Whatever you find would have to be almost as big as the Moon itself.
Similar technique to no. 7 but more convenient. If you're not bothered about Earth, you could just smash it into there instead.[/list]
-
Vibrate the at a specific frequency so that it enters sub-space and enters some other spot, say; the core of the sun.
-
Hit points of a moon?
Well, it depends on the size of the moon... I mean a moon the size of a tennis ball would only have hp in low double figures.
but using the sizes that imediatly come to mind when i think a moon id have say a few billion to a few trillion hp ---> In long scale.
Long scale Billion = a million million.
Long scale Trillion = a million million million
So x1012 up to x1018
Basically higher than the mind can comfortably conceive
-
Send a speaker with a rocket engine attached to it... playing the worst memes of the internet toward a moon...
Rickroll... over 9000... Picard's Enterprise song...
It'll kill itself out of self preservation.
...
...
...
...and yes that does make sense.
-
destroy the Moon
I like 4 and 5 the best.
-
How does gravity work? :drevil:
-
Well Newton, Eienstein and everyone else got it wrong.
-
I think gravity is basically amplified magnetic attraction, but I might be wrong.
-
No, not really. Quantum Field Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory) posits that there are four forces governing all interaction between matter, Electromagnetic Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_force), which is the magnetism we all now and love (and, on a smaller scale, keeps atoms from disintegrating into protons, neutrons and electrons), the weak nuclear force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_force) (Which, if i read the Wiki article right, is responsible for atomic decay (radioactivity)), the strong nuclear force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_force), which binds Quarks together int Protons, Neutrons etc., and, lastly, the gravitational force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_force). Gravity and Electromagnetism are actually quite separate from another, assuming that the quantum physicists are right.
-
As we currently understand it. I have this theory that none of the laws of the universe work the way we think they do.
In fact only one person has ever gotten a universal law right - Murphy. Murphy's Law is the only unversal law that has been laid down correctly.
-
You got that right. Remember Douglas Adams' Theory: The second someone comes up with a good theory about the Universe, it gets replaced immediately by something even more unexplainable. His other Theory states that this has already happened.
-
And the third theory states that both those theories were thought up by a wily editor of The HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy to incrrease the level of universal uncertainty and so increase the sales of the Book.
How to destroy a moon... other than put some trousers on it, it say subject it to every spice girls, rolf harris and s-club seven song ever recorded. I would blow itself up to get away from the noise
-
The most viable Freespace solution would be to accelerate a decent-sized asteroid towards the moon such that the moon would achieve enough motion to escape its host planet's gravity, and in such a direction that it would eventually "collide" with the system's sun.
-
Naw, just put n-dimensional vibrators all over the thing...
...Reposition...
...And use it as a jump node blockade. XD
-
^That would so work!!
-
The HP of a Moon.
Ridiculously High.
-
Also seeing that no matter how many beams you shoot at it, it won't blow up. You need to blow it up. Possibly the overspin might work. Now how to make it spin...
-
subject it to "you spin me right round" or the dreadded "leakspin" :lol:
-
subject it to "you spin me right round" or the dreadded "leakspin" :lol:
I actually like spin me right round...
-
You should see some of the things they've done to sonic with that song
-
I was thinking that a moon or planet should have 10 000 000 000 hitpoints, but are completely covered with subsystems labelled "crust1", "crust2" and so on with 100 000 hitpoints at the least.
-
With "carry no damage" set, I presume.
-
With "carry no damage" set, I presume.
What's that?
-
Makes it so that whey you damage the subsystem the ship itself doesn't take damage.
You can use that to make ablative armor plate sections.
-
That might be good, yeah.
The only ships that should be able to destroy a planet entirely are the SPD Vinashaak and SH Gargant, in my opinion. Other ships should only be able to scratch it from a safe distance of 100 km.
-
Makes it so that whey you damage the subsystem the ship itself doesn't take damage.
You can use that to make ablative armor plate sections.
Awesome!! I've never heard of that cool piece of info.
-
Where has that been used?
-
As we currently understand it. I have this theory that none of the laws of the universe work the way we think they do.
In fact only one person has ever gotten a universal law right - Murphy. Murphy's Law is the only unversal law that has been laid down correctly.
you are all wrong.T he planets are held together by the universal binding force - DUCT TAPE!
-
Where has that been used?
NTF Boadicea, and the MediaVPs Hecate.
-
As we currently understand it. I have this theory that none of the laws of the universe work the way we think they do.
In fact only one person has ever gotten a universal law right - Murphy. Murphy's Law is the only unversal law that has been laid down correctly.
you are all wrong.T he planets are held together by the universal binding force - DUCT TAPE!
No, it's chewing gum, how dumb can you be to not know that?
-
As we currently understand it. I have this theory that none of the laws of the universe work the way we think they do.
In fact only one person has ever gotten a universal law right - Murphy. Murphy's Law is the only unversal law that has been laid down correctly.
you are all wrong.T he planets are held together by the universal binding force - DUCT TAPE!
No, it's chewing gum, how dumb can you be to not know that?
It's the handy man's secret weapon - Duct Tape! LOL
-
Remember, if the women don't find you hansome, they should at least find you handy. ;7
-
Remember, if the women don't find you hansome, they should at least find you handy. ;7
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati :D
-
Im pritty sure its duct tape.
And shame, back on topic!That might be good, yeah.
The only ships that should be able to destroy a planet entirely are the SPD Vinashaak and SH Gargant, in my opinion. Other ships should only be able to scratch it from a safe distance of 100 km.
I think no ship should be able to destroy a planet. Only glass it like the Lucy did.
-
You're not thinking big enough.
-
I figure any ship in the FS universe capable of destroying a planet do it one of two ways.
1) Orbital bombardment devestates the surface and results in nuclear winter from the resulting dust cloud - in addition to bombing any population back to the stone age. THe result is that a once habitable world turns out somehing like
Lucifer falls in the high end of this catagry IMHO
2) Bombardment results in massive tectonic upheaval and Basically reduce the surface to molten slag - think devestated Earth from BP:AoA
To fair in canon, the Sathanas did detonate a star wiping out a Star System, but that took a fleet of them. I figure a single Sath belongs in the lvl2 catagry of planitary destruction Though i imagine a Sath fleet could do something nasty to a planet. the Gargant and Vinashaak also occupy lvl2 - even though they are non-canon
Now before people start throwing Star Wars at me, let me paraphrase a well known net saying - "They did it on Star Wars" should never be an allowable rationel for anything. Ever. Not even breathing.
Besides ships in star wars were rediculously overpowered. Star Trek ships as well. but it is a moot point as these are all seperate universes anyway. so using them as an argument is dumb.
-
I thought instead of Star Wars never being a good rationale for doing anything at all, it was ST: Voyager that was like that.
-
I think no ship should be able to destroy a planet. Only glass it like the Lucy did.
Now if there was a planet killer someone made...
-
I thought instead of Star Wars never being a good rationale for doing anything at all, it was ST: Voyager that was like that.
I know the saying and I did say i was paraphrasing it. But the point "they did it in [another sci-fi series] is never an acceptable rationale" still stands.
What i was saying was that the events and Technology of the Star Wars universe have no bearing on the FS universe and should not be used in an FS related debate
-
What i was saying was that the events and Technology of the Star Wars universe have no bearing on the FS universe and should not be used in an FS related debate
:yes:
Couldn't agree more.
-
Not to mention that this thread has been derailed.
-
Once someone was making an "Earthshaker" missile, however, I've lost track of it.
-
You mean Hamano and his massive missile that can be strapped to an Aeolus?
-
??? I don't know. It had AAAf turrets on the front, and kind of looked like R2D2 with rocket boosters. No personality, though.
-
To be fair, even a few Meson Bombs can devastate a planet similar to Earth given that they are several times more powerful than the modern nuclear bomb and they hit heavily populated areas.
-
Hello!? A 640 hp gigatonne habringer means 50 000 hp 78 gigatonne meson bomb.
78 gigatonne meson bomb Vs 50 megatonne Nucleur Bomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba)
-
Now if there was a planet killer someone made...
SPD Vinaashak from INFR1? SPD probably meant "Shivan Planet Devastator".
-
Shivan Planet Destroyer, IIRC.
-
Weird seeing you online at this time, Droid803. Seems as if it's against the laws of physics . . .
And SPD is Shivan Planet Destroyer. But works like the Icanus, I think. Though I remember something in its tech description that it has a shield to protect it from planet's debris?
-
Yes, it does. I recall it to be a sheath shield as well.
I'm not sure about it working like the Icanus, though, because the USilv is very strong but short-lived.
-
Can you copy paste the Icanus' and Vinashaak's tech descriptions? Cause it seems to me that the Icanus can only make a planet totally uninhabitable in a single shot, though its beam is much stronger, while the Vinashaak needs a shield from debris of planets, while it has weaker weapons.
-
Here you go:
The first Vinaashak encountered by the Alliance accompanied the Gigas. With a smaller subspace weapon, analysts have suspected that this ship is designed for use against planets from orbit - the intense gravitational shear produced by the subspace emitter would effectively cause the target's crust to tear itself apart. This monolithic vessel has no other forward armament, but possess a capital ship sheath-shield similar to that of the Lucifer, possibly intended to protect against large planetary fragments unleashed in the aftermath of firing its main weapon.
When one looks at the Icanus, it is usually with relief that the EA war ended before she could be used in combat. Clearly the largest weapon ever produced, the Icanus' twenty-kilometer long hull houses an amazing quarter of a million crew, dozens of super-heavy beam cannons and the most formidable weapons package ever conceived. The EA's incredible weapon was orginally designed to destroy the surface of a planet by blasting the crust with its main gun until the resulting tectonic eruptions tore entire landmasses apart. The same weapon is also of great use against the largest of warships. Her entry into immediate service came about due to the arrival of the Shivan Gigas into the Sol system. She was able to destroy the super-juggernaut, renewing the optimism of EA and GTVA commaders in every theatre.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Can you copy paste the Icanus' and Vinashaak's tech descriptions? Cause it seems to me that the Icanus can only make a planet totally uninhabitable in a single shot, though its beam is much stronger, while the Vinashaak needs a shield from debris of planets, while it has weaker weapons.
It's been said that the subspace weapon's damage in the tables isn't representative of its true strength. It was only ever meant to be used as a scripted event.
-
You mean like how the Ravana creams the Lysander with a self-destruct SEXP? :drevil:
-
That was a SEXP?! That changes a bit.
-
That was a SEXP?! That changes a bit.
Actually, the SEXP is a failsafe mechanism in that mission. The LReds on the Ravana are strong enough to destroy the Lysander in one salvo each, but if you ~ + I the Lysander, it self-destructs instead.
-
The Ravana fires two LReds from each turret at the same time in that mission.
-
Though this thread appears to have drifted a bit...I'm going to comment on the original topic. I'd actually have to say that I think sufficient (at most 80, probably many less, perhaps only a few) Sathanas could probably destroy (blow apart with extreme force or annihilate utterly) a moon.
Reasoning: They can destroy a star. Now, this is, if I recall correctly (and I may well not) probably due to some sort of subspace disruption to the star's stability. However, stars are inherently stable, being extremely massive objects held in a spherical shape by gravity and prevented from collapse by radiation pressure as they fuse their hydrogen (helium, etc, later on) fuel. Now, this is pure conjecture, but given the color of Capella's star, it seems to be in primary sequence, burning by far primarily hydrogen. This means it likely has a very long time to live remaining, naturally. Given that stars also tend to be self-stabilizing (they'll "vent" off extra mass if necessary, if the radiation pressure increases too much, and collapse will increase fusion rate and thus radiation pressure, auto-stabilizing it that way too), it's really very hard to cause a star to go truly supernova when it isn't ready to, meaning out of fuel. As far as I am aware, you have about four options to do so:
1: Cause a pressure-wave in the star sufficient to forcefully collapse the star against the (increasing as it collapses) radiation pressure, and sufficiently powerful that the resulting "rebound" causes what amounts to a supernova. Requires a stupidly large amount of energy. Quite likely more than the sun gives off.
2: Make it stop fusing. Right. Not happening. Maybe in a million years, Shivans.
3: Rip off the outer layers by brute force and propel them at massive speed. Not likely, and may actually require a more absurd amount of energy than option 1...and is really very pointless. Also not a true supernova, basically a forced mass ejection.
4: Create a subspace anomaly that does one of several things:
a: causes gravitational anomalies inside the star sufficient to cause the equivalent of a pressure wave, or collapse, thus causing a supernova
b: causes a removal of material from the core via a subspace tunnel or similar, again causing a collapse/rebound supernova effect.
c: introduces enough extra radiation pressure/matter/antigravitational force via unknown means to tear the star apart or cause it to blow up.
Given that these are subspace weapons, 4 is really the only probable option, I do believe, and likely in fact 4a or 4b. Given 4, the subspace anomalies required to do any of those would probably rip apart most planets or moons (or devour them, whatnot) with relative ease, even if not per se designed to.
There does exist the possibility that Capella did not actually go supernova, that, for example, it was just an enormous mass ejection, but that seems unlikely given the depiction and description, as well as the assumed purpose. I wouldn't really see a point in the Shivans fake-blowing-up a star unless it would give them a tactical advantage - and they'd already pwnt the GTVA by that point.
Given past discussions, I'd say it seems obvious that Capella went truly supernova, and for that to happen, even just the energy required to trigger that would probably make a rapidly-expanding cloud of debris - and possibly atomic-level dust - out of most moons. Thus even just one Sath, or a few, might be able to pulverize a moon with quite reasonable effectiveness.
Random note: first post here, ever. And what a random - and lengthy - first post it is.
-
Welcome to HLP, Enismirdal. Your explanation is very good, too. :)
-
It actually makes a lot of sense. If Shivans could destroy a star, a moon wouldn't even cause them to sweat. o_o
-
If this post isn't your last, Enismirdal, then...
/me fires his BABeam.
(http://v4belg.blu.livefilestore.com/y1p3vOwOELgZIwsIf2nLYUHKzLvtYf3SMdqGg4MO3rzPj995E06essI7H-4N-egBYBP_pMwU1CElso/WelcomeAncient.png)
Don't worry about a lengthy post. It's much better than quintuple-posting and it's a lot shorter than my first post at any rate.
-
It's probably a hundred times the length of my first post. :lol:
-
The Ravana fires two LReds from each turret at the same time in that mission.
I had a screenshot of it firing eight LReds at the same time on that mission, a SAAA beam got in my way and blocked the entire shot. :doubt:
-
;7
But anyway, back on the topic, what Enismirdal says makes sense, but keep in mind that not every Shivan ship has a subspace weapon. It took the full force of 80+ subspace motivators in order for Capella to go.
Given that sense, only one Sathanas is needed to blow up a planet with its subspace motivator.
Then again, way back in FS1, the Lucifer took 13 hours to bombard Vasuda and render the planet uninhabitable. The canon Lucifer can only accomplish this using the Shivan Super Lasers at the front, which have damage values slightly inferior to that of the LRed in FS2. Two LReds can destroy a Deimos corvette in seven seconds, and a Deimos corvette has 80 000 hit points.
13 hours = 780 minutes = 46 800 seconds
Multiplier= 46 800 / 7 = 6685.71428571428
In addition, given that the Lucifer didn't destroy Vasuda but only rendered it completely uninhabitable, the hit point of a planet with a crust the size of Vasuda would be the combined hull strength of 6685.7 Deimos corvettes, equating to 534 857 142 hitpoints, rounded down to the nearest whole number.
If a moon is one-tenth the size of Vasuda, then it would have 53 485 714 hitpoints.
-
The way I see it, the subspace weapon isn't a regular beam weapon in that it just blows things up. IMO it just sped up the nuclear reactions in the star or something like that rather than what most people think it does (ie. throwing a quadrillion tons of TNT at it). I doubt the subspace weapon would be useful against ships or planets.
-
The way I see it, the subspace weapon isn't a regular beam weapon in that it just blows things up. IMO it just sped up the nuclear reactions in the star or something like that rather than what most people think it does (ie. throwing a quadrillion tons of TNT at it). I doubt the subspace weapon would be useful against ships or planets.
That is also possible, and thank goodness that INFR1 is fanon if it is.
-
Thanks for the welcome, and, ah, the beaming. Ouchies. I do miss the old welcome speeches. But back on topic.
I honestly can't see quite how it would speed up nuclear reactions in the star short of warping space-time in the temporal sense. If they can do that, well that's a drastic temporal increase in a localized area. Thus, why even bother with the LREDs? Just fire the subspace weapon at the GTVA fleet and watch the crew turn to bones and then dust in a few minutes. If that is true, however, tactics aside, you're right, temporal acceleration would do very little to a solid planetoid. However, I figured it probably either disrupts space-time in both senses, by forced "collapse", or compression, of space and accompanying temporal dilation (much as happens near a black hole's event horizon), etc, or introduces specific anomalies, be they gravitational or something like a subspace tunnel to remove or introduce material at the core, any of which would be more than sufficient to tear apart a moon.
I do agree, though, that short of a subspace weapon, and maybe multiples of them, you're rather unlikely to find anything in FS2 capable of doing anything more than rendering a reasonably sized solid planetoid uninhabitable (assuming it's not already) and badly cratering - maybe liquefying for a short while - the crust, barring a very, very patient government willing and able to drill out a huge cavity in the core and pack it with meson bombs, or design a super-large one in-place.
-
If a moon is one-tenth the size of Vasuda, then it would have 53 485 714 hitpoints.
Remember that it's surface area, not a line.
-
Or a dot. :nod:
Given the vein of the post that you quoted, Killer Whale, I should also add that the 53 485 714 hitpoints would be spread all over the moon's surface, perhaps like many subsystems covering a core that is indestructible.
-
I'd agree to shoving the hitpoints into many subsystems, you could make each one a crustal plate, as I think has already been stated.
But..why would the core be indestructible? Presumably, if you really felt like pouring enough energy or explosives into it, you could destroy it...
-
Yeah, but keep in mind that the Lucy took 13 hours to completely glass Vasuda. If you scale that down to my theoretical 0.1x moon, it'll take the Lucy 1.3 hours just to glass the moon completely without destroying it.
-
You realize an idiotic calculation like that doesn't take into account the geology of the moon, the thoroughness of the destruction, the fact that the volume of an object is not equal to its surface area and a myriad of other things...?
-
You realize an idiotic calculation like that doesn't take into account the geology of the moon, the thoroughness of the destruction, the fact that the volume of an object is not equal to its surface area and a myriad of other things...?
I know. It's just an estimate. It would be absurd to think that such a calculation can be applied to, say, a hollow asteroid, but it's just a benchmark.
-
Estimates are fun.
-
Estimates are fun.
Well, my estimates tend to be rubbish, so it is still quite a moronic calculation at best. :p
-
Estimates are indeed fun, and in fact, your estimates may work in favor of destructibility in their errors, I only gave them a cursory inspection.
I never did say, though, that it had to be a reasonable amount of time, power, explosives, etc., only that it should be not invulnerable. It might well be invulnerable for all practical purposes, though (octillions of HP, for example).
-
If Shivans really wanted to completely destroy a planet instead of rendering it uninhabitable, they could just start another supernova. :lol:
-
Of course...but that's too easy...
-
If Shivans really wanted to completely destroy a planet instead of rendering it uninhabitable, they could just start another supernova. :lol:
Collateral damage? That would render the system untraversable.
-
Maybe for the GTVA, Shivans might have it easier.
-
Considering that small nebulas can be supernova remnants, and major Shivan forces exist quite happily in a large one...I'm gonna have to say I agree that the Shivans could traverse a post-nova system quite fine, after it cooled down from hull-melting temperatures and the intense radiation dissipated a bit.
-
Considering that small nebulas can be supernova remnants, and major Shivan forces exist quite happily in a large one...I'm gonna have to say I agree that the Shivans could traverse a post-nova system quite fine, after it cooled down from hull-melting temperatures and the intense radiation dissipated a bit.
But how long would that take?
-
To be honest, not entirely sure. I know the processes involved, but I don't know the timescales necessary for everything to cool down to sane levels. I suspect it might take years or decades, and decades or centuries for the whole thing to hit maximum size and stabilize as a full-blown nebula.
-
Doesn't it depend on the class and type of star involved in the supernova?
-
Obviously. Don't tell me that a system with a sun 10 times larger than Sol takes the same amount of time to cool as when a sun the size of Sol blows up and cools down.
-
Well of course. I was just saying that I don't know any of the exact figures, not that there aren't correlations like that.
-
I'm thinking... a few thousand years... at least.
-
That would not surprise me, at all, especially since supernova generated nebulas can be light-years in size and the particles that form them travel much, much slower.
-
The Knosos nebula could have formed before humans came into existence for all we know. =/
-
One thing you guys aren't really taking into account is the density of the remnant nebula. I don't have any numbers on how dense supernova remnants tend to be, or how quickly they spread and dissipate, but I do know that nebulae in general tend to be exceedingly sparse, many orders of magnitude less dense than what we experience in FS2's nebula missions. (Obviously, :v: took some artistic license with the nebula for gameplay purposes.) Even if the nebular gas was at an extremely high temperature, its extremely low density would mean that anything passing through it probably wouldn't be affected at all, especially considering the sort of weapons fire that FS2 ships are built to withstand. A similar principle is at work in a layer of Earth's atmosphere called the thermosphere, as well as within the Sun's corona.
-
Yeah, but I really think that it's impractical to do that just to destroy a planet. Why not just bombard it like they did to VP?
-
This is true, mongoose, but i would assume that regarding the nebula in question - from a recently-exploded star - it's rather more a question of the shortest amount of time possible before the nebula becomes passable. Even a nebula such as that would take a little while at minimum to get sufficiently cool and expand enough to allow even a Shivan vessel to pass safely through it.
-
Would a Lucy be very effective for that purpose..? Shields keep out lots of damage, maybe it would only take a few hundred years.
A supernova often realeases something like 10^28 megatons of energy into the surrounding interstellar medium
-
You know, it just might be. The shields on a Lucy would probably vastly decrease the amount of time required for a new nebula to be passable.