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Anyone who enjoys turtling and entrenching themselves in DoW1 will hate DoW2. But personally I like the direction they're going. As little research and building as possible, just managing your troops and their actions. More of a World in Conflict sort of deal.
The biggest problem I have with DoW2 is the speed the enemy can cap/uncap your points. If they manage to get one unit past your troops, they can just uncap a point and by time you get there, they've already started uncapping the next. Frustrating to say the least.
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Dawn of War 2! Mostly because I'm addicted to it. But the gameplay is very fun. No way of turtling (that I've seen yet), and a lot of emphasis on managing your soldiers. The single player campaign and its characters are also very well done, and you tend to get especially attached to your merry band of Blood Ravens. You also find out during the campaign what happend to Captains Boreale and Davian Thule, of Soulstorm and Dark Crusade fame respectively. Oh, and Gabriel Angelos of the original Dawn of War.
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Dawn of War 2! Mostly because I'm addicted to it. But the gameplay is very fun. No way of turtling (that I've seen yet), and a lot of emphasis on managing your soldiers. The single player campaign and its characters are also very well done, and you tend to get especially attached to your merry band of Blood Ravens. You also find out during the campaign what happend to Captains Boreale and Davian Thule, of Soulstorm and Dark Crusade fame respectively. Oh, and Gabriel Angelos of the original Dawn of War.
On the other hand, it's damn repetitive and kind of shallow. I enjoyed the beta a bit, but it was odd that a game called Dawn of War seemed to reward avoiding conflict by sneaking around to grab unguarded control points.
Seems like it's getting mixed reactions.
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Well I'd say its better than "lets see who can build more turrets" :p
But I would say sneaking around is a valid tactic. Though if you're abandoning victory points to go chase off small fry uncapping your points, you're just asking the game to drag out.
However campaign mode is where the game shines with RPG style leveling and equipment, and the requirement to use tactics rather than "I'll send 100 SMs in and win". You only get to commit your Force Commander and 4 units, so you need to play smart.
But the weakest point is the whole Games for Windows Live thing. Takes 10 minutes to matchmake a game for you (which more commonly ranks you with people 3 "levels" higher than you) and requires you to sign in for both steam and live. WTF? Seriously, I don't mind signing into one account to play online, but two?
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The campaign is your force commander and 3 units, not 4.
It's main problem is that your tactics are extremely limited by how few pieces you have, and ultimate, the activated skills are nearly entirely what determines the battle. It's pure micromanagement, and there's no AI assistance.
DoW2 essentially trades the issues of RTSes for the issues of real time RPGs. It's a sidegrade, not an upgrade.
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Having played DoW2 since Monday, I'm having mixed feelings.
+ The gameplay is different from the typical RTS, more tactical and unit-focused.
+ RPG elements.
+ You only have limited number of units at disposal.
+ No base building.
+ Unit customization.
- Fallen units are perhaps too easy to replace on the field as long as one unit remains to revive the rest, then you can reinforce squads again.
- Full micromanagement during pause is not possible. Some commands, like attack move can be set during pause, but grenade throw or assault jump cannot.
- No saving game during missions. Then again, if all units fall you get emergency extract and try again. The only thing you lose is one day, which so far has only meant missing an optional mission or two.
- No squad customization, only leaders can be customized.
- Linear story even if there are optional missions.
I don't think DoW2 is a bad game, it certainly does have a lot of potential. I hope expansions will improve on these shortcomings. However, so far I am enjoying DoW2 as is. Boredom hasn't kicked in while playing yet at least.
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I'm playing the dow2 campaign and i think it rocks !
My only issue for now with the game is the multiplayer...
I feel, it's too different from the campaign, i'd rather prefer a multiplayer mode where you don't have to build unit on the battleground but have to spend "armu point" before the battle like we use to do with dark omen for exemple.
It would be closer to the campaign and to the tabletop.
A 4 player /8 squads coop campaign would be awesome too.
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I can't get DoW2. Nobody here was stocking it on release day (my friggin' birthday), so I had to settle for Kane's Wrath and RA3 instead.
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I finished it's (DoW 2) single player campaign. Its not bad. It did get a bit tedious towards the end, combating units much, much more powerful than my own. But the loot was worth it. I like how the game actually makes SMs seem like SMs, i.e using a single squad to conquer a world and all that. You really have to learn to use your abilities and cover effectively to play well. And I'm pretty amused by the sight of my Force Commander standing behind heavy cover and belting out heavy bolter rounds.
Some things that really surprised me, but are spoilers...
That whatever was contained in the relic site on Kronus really seems to alude to the fact that the Blood Ravens are indeed descended from one of the Traitor Legions, most likely the Word Bearers, because of what Eliphas says to Davian Thule if you attack his capital in Dark Crusade. Also, I got somewhat upset that Davian got carved up by the Tyranid Warrior, but was damn happy when he returned as a Dreadnought.
I was also kinda happy that the aristocratic S.O.B Boreale got killed during the Kaurava campaign. Though I wonder who won it. The Blood Ravens won the Kronus crusade, btw.
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I kind of thought the Force Commander was useless. He's real short on useful abilities.
Now, the dreadnought....that was useful. And once you get inventory from cloak, the scout becomes evil.
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I kind of thought the Force Commander was useless. He's real short on useful abilities.
S'why I tossed him a heavy bolter. Previously I used him to 'hold' enemy commanders while my other forces blasted away, but that's kinda impossible now .......
Although; when you build up his melee/ranged tree, he has a chance to OHKO any regular unit.
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I've been trying a second run through, and made my force commander use a heavy bolter. Unfortunately, he seems even less useful there - slow to start firing, guns really don't do that much damage - and he lacks focus fire, which is the main reason Tarkus is effective at pinning enemies down. It's practically instant suppression.
I'm holding on to the hope that a flamethrower will at least make him useful against swarms - those did seem to make the little 'nids die pretty fast, but I haven't found one yet.
Wish I had a baneblade though.
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I wished I had a Baneblade too. But I got
Davian Thule with an assault cannon
, which was the next best thing, especially when you strafe the 'nids.
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I don't know why you think FC sucks at melee, I made mine a melee specialist and he works very well along with Thaddeus' squad. I always equipped my FC with a battle standard, the rally ability is invaluable because it heals nearby units and breaks suppression. The healing especially was too good to replace.
I completed the campaign today. It was good enough but there weren't that many different level layouts, so it got a wee bit repetitive in the end when you went and defended that damn shrine for tenth time.
I didn't use Thule dreadnought at all unless he was scripted in. In the end I have three squads of terminators and force commander wreaking havoc. In the Last Stand mission he kinda felt useless even though he was properly equipped and was only a few levels behind. Termies ftw. I wonder if there was fourth terminator armor somewhere, my FC felt kinda left out...
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No, there isn't. And Termie armour kinda destroys the cover so ... And I think if you max out Thule's ranged discipline, he's quite useful for strafing the hordes of Tyranids in the last mission, as long as you pair it with a good assault cannon.
It felt real good seeing Gabriel Angelos; the last boss battle was a breeze thanks to him. And I kinda went wtf at his company of Space Marines. I mean; level 30? 17000+ health? And the level cap is 20, btw.
=edit=
By 'strafe' I meant the ranged ability that he gets once you up his discipline enough, and if he has an A/C equipped. I think Avitus is useless as a Termie, cause you essentially lose three heavy bolters for a single assault cannon, which Thule can substitute for in a pinch and do just as well if not better.
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Why would termies need cover in the first place? :D Also, it was so easy to replace fallen units at the next reinforcement point that using cover felt like it was slowing down progress...
But I agree with you that Avitus' squad needs a weapons upgrade, they're supposed to be the heavy weapons squad after all. Currently Tarkus' and Avitus' squads are identical except for their leaders.
It would seem that end-game non-terminator weapons and armor are far superior to their terminator counterparts. What terminator armor gives, is for ranged units better melee ability as well as suppression and knockdown immunity. Those aren't that big deal IMHO, so unless terminator armors gets some improvements in a future patch, I probably won't use termies the next time I play the campaign.
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Right about that, the Termies. On all counts. :D
I know what you mean about the gear; the Armour of the Patriach, which my FC was using, was frigging powerful. Not to mention it looked really cool. All golden finishes and stuff. And it was ridiculous that the weapons my FC was using at the end was a regular master-crafted chainsword and bolt pistol. And his damage was off the charts. I just wished I'd found a master-crafter powersword. Having an FC with non-shining weapons seems weird ....
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It felt real good seeing Gabriel Angelos; the last boss battle was a breeze thanks to him. And I kinda went wtf at his company of Space Marines. I mean; level 30? 17000+ health? And the level cap is 20, btw.
Well, if it was First Company, they're sort of like that.
One of my big reservations, having even only played a few levels, was that there's one glaring problem with this. You don't win campaigns against Tyranids on the ground. You don't. All the fluff indicates you have to beat them in space first before you can stop them on the ground. So unless somewhere in the background the Litany of Fury is putting in some serious overtime this whole thing smells a little funny.
Also, I have to ask: Land Raiders? Anywhere? It's not the same without a Super Jackhammer Carrier Tank. :p
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I'm not all to familiar with Warhammer fluff (odd word btw), but I think it was well enough explained why the Hive was a bit on the weak side. It was only in a passing, so it is easy to miss if you don't pay attention to what Cyrus (I think it was Cyrus... maybe) says.
If you used Dreadnought, what were the other two squads you took with you to the missions? And did you equip the dread with ranged weaponry?
Because my experience with W40k is pretty much restricted to the Dawn of War series, would it be feasible to create a TC based on W40k universe?
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Because my experience with W40k is pretty much restricted to the Dawn of War series, would it be feasible to create a TC based on W40k universe?
Maybe.
I'm familar with the 40k fleet-based game, Battlefleet Gothic. (Familar, he says, when he has most of the rulebooks.) The problem is that Gothic is two things that the FS engine is not going to like. It's overgreebled to the point your graphics card will beg for mercy loading a small capital ship. And it's focused in the exact opposite direction. Gothic centers on capital ship combat, and engaging, much less destroying, even an Escort-class ship in Gothic with a single fighter or bomber is simply not possible. It takes whole squadrons.
Nonetheless, there is scope for a fighter-based game, but it would be better in an engine designed for atmospheric flight where the behemoths of Gothic can't come down to play.
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I thought Gabriel commands Third Company? It's mentioned during DoW2, and in DoW1. And yeah, Cyrus mentioned that the Hive Fleet is the remnants of one the Ultramarines bashed up, probably not up to full strength.
I took Tarkus, with Terminator armour, and Thaddeus, also Termie Armour. I just had Thule hold his ground behind cover, then strafe the oncoming hordes. He had a pretty good A/C, and I maxed out his discipline, so he was pretty kick ass. My FC was using the Armour of the Patriach, like I said before, with a master-crafted chainsword and bolt pistol.
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Interesting, so you had only the FC tanking while the rest were ranged specialists. Did it work well?
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No, actually, when Thaddeus dons Termie armour he's an Assault Termie, so I had his squad hold one entry way, and the FC hold the other. The FC had Thule and Tarkus for backup, while Thadd had Tarantulas and Avitus. It worked pretty damn well, I might add.
This is the second poison area, btw. The first one was frigging easy to defend; the IG were usefull there, actually. Not to mention the Tarantulas the Apocalypse drops.
Emperor watch over you, Brother Gordion.
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Oh I actually meant usually, not the last mission where you get all squads with you.
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Oh. Yea, it worked quite well. Especially since I maxed out his melee discpline, and so everytime battle cry was active, he could insta-kill most of the creeps. I actually had him use a teleporter, but I switched over to an assault pack later on. Both of them help lots in keeping him alive.
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I'm rather disappointed in some ways. The existence of Terminator armor, for example, is obvious. There are bits for it everywhere. I picked up a Cyclone launcher for it ages ago. But the game ain't bothering to point me to any sets of the stuff so I'll be damned if I know how to get it.
It's a great game so far, currently on the second visit to the Angel Gate map (these guardsmen are pretty badass, they were taking down Tyranid warriors in hand-to-hand!), though.
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You pick terminator armor from
plot-missions, which I don't think can be skipped, so you end up getting all of them.
Also, some of those guardsmen are probably invulnerable which is why they won against the tyranids in melee.
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No actually, completing the Angel Forge mission involving the Farseer (damn hot Farseer, I might add) awards you one suit; which I generally give to Tarkus, then taking down the WarBoss and the Avatar of Khaine nets you one a piece. Both of those are optional missions though. And they're ridiculously difficult to take down. And my Guardsmen where getting slaughtered by both Orks and Tyranids.
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Oh, my bad then. I thought they weren't optional.
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Frankly, I think it's best to NOT give Avitus OR Thddeus the termie armor.
3 heavy bolters (or 2 heavy bolters + plasma/missile) seems somehow more deadly than 1 Assault Cannon + 2 storm Bolter. Or at least it looks that way. Altough that Assault Cannon looked iffin sweet. I should have specialized my FC for ranged combat.
Jetpack Jump is damn effective at killing grouped infantry. Especially Tyranid infantry. So extreemely useful at the end.
So propbably one of those is better off without the termie armor. F'course, I realised that only after beating them game and giving them all termie armors. Gotta say that Cyclone missile launchers are great and that Thule was impressive in some missions, totally useless in others (Avatar of Khane).
I never did get any long-ranged weapon for him.
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You didn't get the assault cannon for Dave? That too bad - that's the main reason he was useful. The special attack with that gun might as well be a lava firehose for what it does to infantry.
And for vehicles....well, Cyrus and melta bombs.
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anyone can carry melta-bombs. And plasma guns and missile launchers also work well against veichles.
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Yeah, but Cyrus gets the ability that lets him use them while cloaked, so we can blow the stuff up before it starts shooting at us.
At any rate, I was trying to replay it, and the same damn thing happened again - after a certain point, the game stops being fun and becomes stupid.
I swear, one of these missions had a carnifex every 30 feet. It ceases to be tactical, and becomes grindy.
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I know what you mean. I'm now damn good at killing Carnifexes with my little band of Spartans.
I don't know, but I find putting Thaddeus in Termie armour is good mainly because he needs the health. Plus he has the special splash, so it's no real loss. I also had Thule backing him up with an Assault cannon, so that took care of most of the Tyranids.
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I've just completed the DoW II campaign. Is it just me, or does anyone think that the campaign's main downfall is the boss missions where everything is quite rinse-and-repeat?
Thule backing him up with an Assault cannon, so that took care of most of the Tyranids.
I make Thule a tank - he lays waste to carnifexes and gaunts alike with his dreadnought fist. :D
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I only wish there were enough termie armors and assault cannons for everyone. Imagine the carnage 3 such squads could do (+ the Froce commander in Termie armor with max out ranged combat). ;7
Ahh..I have such fond memories of WH40K: Chaos Gate....
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Only the devastator squad leader or FC can equip assault cannon. However, it'd be much better if all of the devastators would carry assault cannon instead of storm bolters by default, they're supposed to be the devastator squad after all. Now their default terminator equipment is same as tactical squad's.
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Actually, the normal i.e skirmish Devastator squad only has a single heavy weapon, so putting the Termie armour 'reverts' them to normal Devastators. But yea, I wish they all had ACs. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense to Terminize them.
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No actually, completing the Angel Forge mission involving the Farseer (damn hot Farseer, I might add) awards you one suit; which I generally give to Tarkus, then taking down the WarBoss and the Avatar of Khaine nets you one a piece. Both of those are optional missions though. And they're ridiculously difficult to take down. And my Guardsmen where getting slaughtered by both Orks and Tyranids.
Well, unless you fight the farseer more than once, I should already have a suit...also, standard devastator squad from campaign has three heavy bolters.
I was absolutely horrified when I upgraded Thule to venerable and they gave him a Mark 3 dreadnaught chassis. The Mark 4 is so much more awesome. :( I couldn't bear to use him when that happened so he's been sitting onboard the strike cruiser doing nothing the whole campaign.
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also, standard devastator squad from campaign has three heavy bolters.
Yeah, but we were talking of them equipped with terminator armor, with the armor they only get one suppression capable weapon.
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Yeah, but we were talking of them equipped with terminator armor, with the armor they only get one suppression capable weapon.
The assault cannon is something of a step up.
Completed the campaign, found the suits. The assault terminators were hella impressive when they fought the warboss' underlings, nearly unstoppable. (Unlike my first experience with the tactical terminators in the mission to save Angel Forge.) But both the Warboss and the Avatar of Khaine I couldn't stand up to in a single head-to-head. The warboss I had to retreat from several times to replace downed Marines. The Avatar of Khaine I ended up doing a flanking thing from two sides, then discovering if I posistioned my new tactical squad just so, the Avatar would repeatedly wander into range for them to fire on it without actually engaging. (Though it was luring in some folks for the assault squad to kill that finally got him; plasma cannon to the face.)
Compared to those two, the Hive Tyrant was a pansy. The final mission was, in fact, between my Devastator Squad laying down continous rapid heavy bolter fire (the trait that lets Avitus recover energy for every kill meant that those huge swarms of Hormagaunts were literally self-defeating in the face of Focus Fire) and the tactical squad standing out in front of a line of IG backed by the Force Commander with Heavy Flamer, something of a pushover. I only took one casuality, during the push to the teleport beacon; an initiate of course, and why I left Cyrus and co. on the Strike Cruiser every time I could.
The IG stormies again proved to be remarkably capable, surviving repeated (though usually very brief) hand-to-hand exposure to Hormagaunts, something that would never happen in the tabletop. Then again, in tabletop Avitus wouldn't have been able to fire into close combat to support them.
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Rosarius + That green healing thing + Rally for Force Commander (Flag) = you'll never loose a squad memeber if you use your abilities carefully.
The FC becomes invulnerable for a short time when he uses To Victory! and the Assault squads when it jumps/teleports. I still consider jumping to be better than teleporting, because of sheer area damage, but DAMN, the assault termies ROCK. Well, ALL termies rock.
The game really makes you feel like Space Marines are the unltimate badasses, given that you 10 man force usually wipes out 200 enemies per mission :P
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DoW 2 should just be renamed "Warhammer 40K: 300". :p
I know, NGTM-1R. The Hive Tyrant was an absolute fail in the face of the Avatar and the Warboss. I had to retreat multiple times when engaging both. But when Gabriel used his 'amplify damage' thing on the Hive Tyrant it dies damn fast...
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Does anyone bet that the first expansion pack will include the IG? Relic has virtually all the unit models in-game (check the stormtroopers aiding the SM in "Angel's Gate," not to mention that they are one of the most popular factions.
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I think Relic would fail hard if the first expansion doesn't have IG and Chaos. I think they already failed hard by not including Chaos. How can you have WH40K and not have Chaos? And you don't even get that many Tyranids on screen to make up for the lack of the Ruinous Powers.
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Considerin' how generous they've been with most of th' expansions for DoW I wouldn't be surprised if they knock our socks of with th' follow ups t' DoWII
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I'd be most interested to see what sort of campaign they cook up for the expansions, tbh.
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DoW2 is not suited to the type of gameplay that the IG are conducive to. What do the IG do? Men, lots of them. And tanks. Lots of those too.
I suppose, suppose, you could develop a sort of armored-vehicle version of the DoW2 campaign, commanding your IG armored company to victory. I'd actually rather enjoy that.
But that's also something that you should do with the World In Conflict engine, not this one.
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I think they already failed hard by not including Chaos. How can you have WH40K and not have Chaos? And you don't even get that many Tyranids on screen to make up for the lack of the Ruinous Powers.
I believe Relic's line of reasoning was to appease the constant pleas for Tyranids to be added in the game, as well as making the starting race combo different from the original DoW (SM, Eldar, Orks and CSM) That said, Orks and Eldar were needed to continue their type of plot as Tyranids were to be the main evil of the story, something that Chaos normally are.
I'd be most interested to see what sort of campaign they cook up for the expansions, tbh.
I just hope that if more than Imperial forces are in the story, Relic can make up a better story of them fighting against each other if they are.
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Ah hah hah. I tried something really weird today. I gave Thaddeus bolters, and Tarkus power swords.
=edit=
Funny thing happened. I went after the Avatar, and I discovered she/he/it keeps roasting her/his/its guards with that cross-shaped flame strike thing. Much lulz were to be had after the Eldar screamed "We must protect the Ancient!" and the Ancient promptly roasted them.
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Funny thing happened. I went after the Avatar, and I discovered she/he/it keeps roasting her/his/its guards with that cross-shaped flame strike thing. Much lulz were to be had after the Eldar screamed "We must protect the Ancient!" and the Ancient promptly roasted them.
It does that, but it doesn't seem to actually, you know, hurt the Eldar...
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Well, maybe because this round I was playing on easy.
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Regarding the earlier comments about the "useless" force commander, that's kinda weird. I found him to be actually a really effective fighting unit all around. When I found a commander jump suit, I gave him that and essentially used him in complement with Thaddeus. That was a really weird situation because with two jumping units on the field, they tended to move a lot faster than Tarkus and Avitus, and they barely ever had time to move to their next position before Thaddeus and FC were done with the group of enemies.
After that, I decided to try out his ranged abilities, so I found this Plasma Cannon that had no setup time and good damage and gave it to him, and he turned into a pretty effective mobile weapons platform. Sure it was a low fire rate, but combined with another Plasma Cannon on Atavius and a melee Dreadnought and normal Tarkus, it was just as good as setup with Thaddeus, if not better.
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If I haven't already, I shall retract my 'useless FC' statement. I gave him a teleporter pack and it made him live longer. Much, much longer. Helped that I found a Thunder Hammer that gave +19% Melee damage, and also that I found a seal that gave +30 armour, and adds some armour to everyone around him.
I also gave him one of the Termie suits, cause I found an extra set of Storm Shields & Thunder Hammers. Not to mention I found a kickass heavy bolter. I shifted the seal to Thule, since this time 'round he's a melee spec, and usually fighting along side the FC and Thaddeus. I found it incredibly funny that the Orks, during one defense mission, couldn't stop Thule, and he was rampaging around the map, slaughtering all the Orks.