Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: azile0 on March 04, 2009, 01:13:26 pm
-
Q. Isn't it "Alcibiades's"?
A. No, shut up. Lalala can't hear you.
Haha.. Nice. I'm looking forward to this one.
-
it's an inside joke. ;)
-
And what's the motivation behind that? Gotta ask that, because I prefer the s's way.
-
you sound like a snake when you say it.
-
And what's the motivation behind that? Gotta ask that, because I prefer the s's way.
Because s's is grammatically incorrect.
-
Actually, I'm not sure that it is, but it's sure annoying.
-
And what's the motivation behind that? Gotta ask that, because I prefer the s's way.
Because s's is grammatically incorrect.
S's is definitely correct. Check any detailed grammar book, printed or online.
-
And what's the motivation behind that? Gotta ask that, because I prefer the s's way.
Because s's is grammatically incorrect.
S's is definitely correct. Check any detailed grammar book, printed or online.
I did. Every one says it is in the writer's discretion to pick. Goober and I had the same argument.
-
Writer's discretion is a concession (hey, that rhymes!) because it's so common. But yes, s's is grammatically correct. :D
-
That's odd, I was always told that when a word (any word) ends in s to simply add an apostrophe to make said word possessive.
-
It's more or less at the discretion of the author.
-
Not really.
S's is grammatically correct, but is awkward to read (and to pronounce).
So people just drop the s at the end.
Hey, languages evolve.
-
S' is correct for non-proper nouns ending in S, but proper nouns can go with either s's or s' at the writer's discretion. Most people do pronounce an extra "es" sound at the end of these names except in cases where the last syllable is pronounces as "eez" (common in Greek names like this case), but s's on paper looks unpleasing to a lot of people, especially when it's "ss's", so it's up to you. There may also be AE vs BE and regional differences in general preferences, but, as usual, that stuff only really matters to linguists and people with way too much free time :nervous:. In this case, I'd say the style points definitely go to Alcibiades' :yes:. Anyway, way to go with the simultaneous announcement and release!
-
S' is correct for non-proper nouns ending in S
I think you mean plural nouns.
Anyway, I found the Strunk and White rule (http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk.html#1) online. Ironically, Alcibiades would probably count as an "ancient proper name ending in -es".
-
Most people write it as "s'" rather than "s's", although being grammatically incorrect.
Then again, I say that "s's" are getting phased out of the English language like so many other words.
-
HLP is great. :D
Not only I enjoy a great game, but I also get free advanced English lessons. :pimp:
(Because they are advanced, not absurd, aren't they? :lol: :lol:)
-
Take notes, there will be a test later.
-
I think you mean plural nouns.
Nope nope, if I'm not mistaken (which is always a distinct possibility), the possessor's being singular or plural should not change its written treatment; the only important consideration is whether the noun ends in S or not (which most plurals happen to).
So bus' is correct, but bus's is not. Buses' is correct, but buses's is not. And just for the hell of it, busses' is correct, but busses's is not. As a side note, they are all pronounced identically. :ick:
It's only proper nouns (among nouns ending in s) that can elect to have an extra bonus S after their apostrophe, though in the "special exception" cases like Jesus', Achilles', and many other old timers there is never an extra S (this was news to me).
So Purvis' and Purvis's are both acceptable, and the one chosen might depend on either the specific author's style or the first syllable of the following word. So Purvis' style might look better to some than Purvis's style, but Purvis' jawline is probably weaker than Purvis's jawline. It's impossible to get it right, and you get yelled at when you're wrong. Nuns patrol the aisles with their rulers ready to tattoo your wrists at the first sign of a slip. Basically it's a nightmare, one you can only wake up from by realizing that no one in their right mind gives a damn about it. Then you admit that you have a problem and the healing can begin.
In conclusion, Spanish is a beautiful language with remarkably uniform grammar, syntax, and spelling. Sorry to crap up your nice FAQ thread. I promise I'm done now.
-
Nope nope, if I'm not mistaken (which is always a distinct possibility), the possessor's being singular or plural should not change its written treatment; the only important consideration is whether the noun ends in S or not (which most plurals happen to).
You're mistaken. :p Here, I'll provide examples:
The wheels on the bus -> The bus's wheels
The wheels on the buses -> The buses' wheels
That's the universal pattern, whether the noun is common or proper.
-
The wheels on the bus -> The bus's wheels
The wheels on the buses -> The buses' wheels
The emboldened s doesn't necessarily need to be there right?
-
Well, it's being phased out...
-
OK I broke down and looked around on the internet. The AP Stylebook (long may it reign o'er the scurvy mass media) says no to the extra s after the apostrophe on singular possessive proper nouns ending in s. Goober, however, is an Elements of Style man, and they say add the s no matter what or there's gonna be trouble. I was wrong according to most of the places I looked about not adding s on singular possessive non-proper nouns ending in s, so "bus's" is indeed legit, as is "hippopotamus's". The only style manual I hit up that supported me on that point was one by Mary Ansell, which said that it was acceptable in American English to use just the apostrophe, but I had never heard of her book before. Getting back to the main point, if you refuse to make exceptions for proper nouns you will end up breaking the only really important rule of the English language: Try not to sound stupid. I submit for your reading out loud pleasure:
Joan Rivers's sisters. Hercules's seas. Sisyphus's Syphilis. Matt Damon.
So now I am a proponent of just writing it how you say it and respecting the author's vision by saying it how it's written. No matter how much I hate looking at the words Bridget Jones's Diary. This probably should be split off and deported to a board that is more supportive of tangential thread derailment.
-
Tinfoil, I think this thread should be locked instead of the FAQ one :P
-
I disagree, this is a good discussion, while the FAQ thread served it's purpose in post 1 and needs no further replies.
-
...Goober, however, is an Elements of Style man, and they say add the s no matter what or there's gonna be trouble.
Are you so condescending to all who are not on the same wavelength as you?
The only style manual I hit up that supported me on that point was one by Mary Ansell, which said that it was acceptable in American English to use just the apostrophe
That really doesn't say much. This sentence could be interpreted as if in British English, the only viable way would be s's. In my experience, s's is more common in US English than in British English. I don't remember reading any British English book that used the s's way, but many American English books - including books on linguistics or a few Star Wars novels - prefer s's. If there are two things that I pay attention to - style-wise - while reading English-language sources are 1) which variant of English it is written in, and 2) how does it use its s-ending possessives, so I think my observations cannot be completely inaccurate or counterfactual.
Getting back to the main point, if you refuse to make exceptions for proper nouns you will end up breaking the only really important rule of the English language: Try not to sound stupid.
Your examples are artificially extreme. There's no way there will be so many s sounds anywhere in everyday speech, not to mention how many seas Hercules possessed in his life.
No matter how much I hate looking at the words Bridget Jones's Diary.
Then you must hate to read the FS2 tech descriptions of the Perseus, and a lot of novels.
-
OK I broke down and looked around on the internet. The AP Stylebook (long may it reign o'er the scurvy mass media) says no to the extra s after the apostrophe on singular possessive proper nouns ending in s. Goober, however, is an Elements of Style man, and they say add the s no matter what or there's gonna be trouble. I was wrong according to most of the places I looked about not adding s on singular possessive non-proper nouns ending in s, so "bus's" is indeed legit, as is "hippopotamus's". The only style manual I hit up that supported me on that point was one by Mary Ansell, which said that it was acceptable in American English to use just the apostrophe, but I had never heard of her book before. Getting back to the main point, if you refuse to make exceptions for proper nouns you will end up breaking the only really important rule of the English language: Try not to sound stupid. I submit for your reading out loud pleasure:
Is it? I always thought the plural of Hippopotamus was Hippopotamus? Or maybe at a stretch Hippopotami!
-
We're talking about possessives, not plurals.
-
You know what, we should just drop the subject, because we would be having the same discussion even had our title been "Alcibiades's Gamble", and it'll never go anywhere.
Plus, we're not changing it.
If you think it's wrong, fine with me. Whatever. LIVE WITH IT.
-
I believe that they're discussing the grammar itself and not our name at this point. Thus why this thread remains un-nuked.
-
But you know, then it has nothing to do with us, and it's sitting in our forum, spawning rage.
-
Hmm, well I certainly didn't intend any condescension towards Goober or anyone who likes to use their apostrophes in any manner; I was trying to write about the subject in a lighthearted way, and I apologize if in doing so I inadvertently spawned up some rage.
not to mention how many seas Hercules possessed in his life.
Hercules seized seas as he pleased. :shaking: ;)
-
But you know, then it has nothing to do with us, and it's sitting in our forum, spawning rage.
Point. Booted over to GenDisc.
-
I always use the s' rather than s's because the possessive of my last name would otherwise become "ass's" at the end - I'd much prefer it to end in "ass'".
-
I think you lose either way :p
-
Sorry for necrothreading, but I had to add.... :)
S's is indeed grammatically correct, since you are talking about Singular objects, it is the gambit of a person called Alcibiades, so not a group of object or people known as 'Alcibiades', the s is not a pluraliser, therefore you need to add a second s to define it as the object of a single person.
However, English is extremely forgiving in that respect, so there's no incredible faux-pas with the other spelling :)
-
Your examples are artificially extreme. There's no way there will be so many s sounds anywhere in everyday speech, not to mention how many seas Hercules possessed in his life.
"Mobius's solution"?
-
I cast Life 3 on this thread.
-
Areiz? Risveglio?
-
Based on that rule thingy someone poster earlier, shouldn't it be "The Gamble of Alcibiades"?
-
Before the forum was public that's what goober named it. Also Alcibiades' Lamborghini.
-
Based on that rule thingy someone poster earlier, shouldn't it be "The Gamble of Alcibiades"?
I believe using of for talking about an animate being's possession is nonstandard. That's what I learned at school. Perhaps native speakers prefer otherwise.