Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rick James on March 12, 2009, 02:05:51 am
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Wut? (http://pifts.blogspot.com/2009/03/boycott-symantec-products.html)
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ive suspected them of being ****s for years, now we have pwoof
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They make a shoddy product, Norton has repeatedly failed for me, so I've alternated between McAffe and AVG for the last two years or so. Somehow, I'm not surprised.
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They make a shoddy product, Norton has repeatedly failed for me, so I've alternated between McAffe and AVG for the last two years or so. Somehow, I'm not surprised.
McAfee is terrible.
And yeah, this doesn't surprise me at all either.
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PIFTS.exe?
Thank god I'm on a Mac, where EXEs are completely useless.
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What are they thinking :wtf: They must know there are hordes of people who watch super closely for things like that.
Careless or ignorant? Considering the filed they are working at I guess it doesn't make any difference :no: :no:
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ive suspected them of being ****s for years, now we have pwoof
really? wow. I know alot of people back in the day used Norton.
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What are they thinking :wtf: They must know there are hordes of people who watch super closely for things like that.
Careless or ignorant? Considering the filed they are working at I guess it doesn't make any difference :no: :no:
My guess would be careless. They forgot to hide their malware :p
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An admin over at The Bleeping Computer clarifies why the other content is being accessed:
Unfortunately, most people here do not understand programming. The reason why this program opens up so many of these folders is not because they are scraping the contents, but because the libraries and modules they are using to access the Internet automatically access them. I monitored all file access while running the program, and yes they did access the folders, but did not query the contents.
This is just conspiracy theory fodder at its best.
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Slightly reassuring, right? I have only these things to say:
Symantec will most likely not provide us any more information, since they will assume that for the most part, the damage is done. They've "pulled" the patch, despite that it was apparently necessary enough to include in the update at one point. Only a limited number of users will ever hear about it.
They've posted an official statement, and most people will read that, and be satisfied. The information in the official PIFTS.EXE topic will most likely be passed right by.
If the pifts.exe process WAS necessary for them to determine all that information about which clients needed upgrading, upon installation of windows 7 (This, when you think about it, really makes absolutely no sense), then chances are they have remodeled the file so that it now runs in secrecy, and did not actually "pull" the patch.
Beyond that, even if the file is not scraping information from all these "conspicuous" places that it now has access to, who's to say that in the future, new updates might make use of those new access points that Symantec has, on all the users hit by the "blunder" ? Consider upon this, friends :P.
Even if PIFTS.EXE accesses these sensitive areas of your computer as a result of .net framework, or whatever it is it needs to do to "phone home", this at least proves that Norton has no qualms about sending you new executable files that access your computer in unexplained ways, with no "release notes", unsigned, and are not too worried about leaving the issue open for debate for days until really providing any insight whatsoever. They also have no qualms about deleting paying customers topics and posts whenever a support issue comes up, as well as banning them, merely as the result of trying to cover up their own mistake. Not a reassuring way to treat customers, if you ask me.
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What have random conspiracy theories got to do with this? Way I see it, this is just Norton's PR Department failing spectacularly. There is no reason to bring the X-Files into it.
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McAfee is terrible.
Perhaps, but it has yet to fail spectacularly at keeping my computer secure. That's good enough.
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Yeah, it's very hard to trust people because many lie. All these greedy corrupt selfish companies. Most deceive in order to make money off of you, even if it means your health is at stake. Same with many fast food restaurants. That also applies to any company who sells foods with artificial sweeteners who don't want you to know that their sweeteners are toxic and cause a host of diseases and mental problems, nerve damage, and often times don't even help you lose fat. They have a very similar molecular composition to embalming fluid.
This is very sick and makes me angry and I'm sure it make others angry too. How low can they go? Same with a lot of western medicine. They don't want you to know about natural remedies because they want you to keep buying their medicine (that often times does more harm than good) and want you to stay sick so you will keep buying more and give you nasty side effects thinking that buying more will help it go away. Much of it is fake just to make money off of you. I would only use western medicine and surgery as a last resort. Prevention is the best method. I take none and no vitamins and know how to stay healthy and what to include in my diet, including a lot of anti-oxidants in my brewed green tea, and I'm healthier than many people around me who do take all this stuff and I can keep off the fat even if I eat a lot and I save much more money too. Knowledge is power.
The point is, all these companies care about is their stupid money. They don't want you to know the truth. Nothing surprises me these days. You have to be very careful. Those are good conspiricy theories that I'm sure are true in most cases.
Here is a good program for anti-malware: http://www.malwarebytes.org/. Of course I would also have another anti-malware program with this one since some catch certain malware that others don't notice. As long as you don't run them both at the same time in memory, you can have more than one anti-malware program without conflicting, and I would recommend it.
meh, not all companies are evil.
What wrong about western medicine (they work for me). Those herbal medicine cost more and with all Quackery.
Same with organic foods and most other stuff.
I use Norton anti-virus for some time and found no problem with it. Maybe it is a lie to scare off Norton anti-virus products.
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meh, not all companies are evil.
What wrong about western medicine (they work for me). Those herbal medicine cost more and with all Quackery.
Same with organic foods and most other stuff.
I use Norton anti-virus for some time and found no problem with it. Maybe it is a lie to scare off Norton anti-virus products.
Unlikely. The delightful anons of the partyvan wiki and others have decompiled and recompiled the suspect .exe over and over again with the same result. The program makes contact with a small variety of different IPs, including one which is apparently from Africa. It is also confirmed that the .exe is accessing folders without the end-user's consent, even though it might not necessarily be scraping the contents of those folders and shooting them off to wherever.
Let's face it. Symantec rolled the 20-sided die on this one and ended up with a 1.
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What happen it was a scare tactic, It been used many times to scare people off from using their products.
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Maybe, but by deleting support requests and forum postings by their own customers about this topic they certainly didn't inspire confidence in their products.
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What happen it was a scare tactic, It been used many times to scare people off from using their products.
Um, no. Have you even read the blog? PIFTS.exe was sent out as part of a Norton LiveUpdate patch. If Symantec really wanted to alienate their customer base, then mission successful, but I see no other reason why they would shoot themselves in their collective foot like this.
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Read this one
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/161038/bad_symantec_update_leads_to_trouble.html
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My guess would be careless. They forgot to hide their malware :p
Who 4 gets? Newbies!
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Through all the BS I see three facts:
1. Norton sent out an update containing a program called PIFTS
2. That program was meant to collect information on Norton's user base and report it to Norton (AKA Spyware)
3. Had the program been signed the firewall would have let it access the internet without intervention or approval from the user.
Now out of that I get that Norton is willing to let spyware (and probably other programs) through their firewall without the user ever knowing. This is scary. All it takes is one hacker to figure out how to send out a virus with a valid signature and Norton lets it right through spreading like wildfire.
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ive suspected them of being ****s for years, now we have pwoof
really? wow. I know alot of people back in the day used Norton.
the reason for that is because a lot of oems pre-installed norton with an introductory license (usually 3 months). thing is if you didnt update the license you were completely unprotected and most users just uninstalled it never knowing what it was (or liked the idea of buying something they already had). its ridiculous how many people didnt understand the message "your license has expired" means. ive also seen infected computers explode when you install it. in all my years of geekdom ive never really trusted norton or any other virus scanner at least till i discovered avg.
one way ive afoided viruses is by not letting myself be forcefed what programs i use. using firefox instead of ie, winamp instead of wmp, open office over ms office, pidgin instead of msn messanger, ect. essentially dont use the software that came with the os. frankly id wish theyd gut those programs and reduce the cost of the os to compensate.
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I have Norton but now I'm worried to update it and use it. I did search my system for that bad exe file and it wasn't on my system. I guess I can try and update it and then search my system for that nasty exe file again to see if it installs it.
:shaking: Just rip that stuff off your HD right now and download AVG Free edition and MBAM. Trust me.
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what antivirus would you recommend then?
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Didn't I just say that? :wtf:
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avast! is good too.
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I think that it is important to note that Symantec was bought out by a large company a few years back.
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I use Linux for day to day stuff, and AVG for my Windows partition. AVG has worked quite well for me.
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AVG free is a godsend.
I used to like Norton, but over the years it got worse and worse and now i just use AVG because its easier and I don't need heavy-duty protection from viruses because I'm not an idiot.
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COMODO is the only thing i trust personally. Works extremely well, doesnt hog up the PC, actually uses intelligent scheduling regarding "background scanning" and such.
another plus is non-resource hoggin on-access scans, intrusion detection and... hmm. anti-everything if you desire so?
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AVAST, NOD32, and Kaspersky are the three best out there.
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*facepalm* You know, it's supposed to do that? Modern virus scanners hook into Windows' basic IO to monitor any read/write access to your HD for suspicious activity. When they register that one of their core processes is being shot down, they restart them for your convenience. I don't know what hardware you got, but a modern-ish system using a modern-ish OS shouldn't really slow down noticeably.....
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except it does. Always.
try comodo. freeware, x32/x64 availible, works extremely well, is actually user-friendly.
avg, avast and nod are the 3 worst offenders when it comes to antivirus proggies.
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It's all Windows except for Avast!.
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avg, avast and nod are the 3 worst offenders when it comes to antivirus proggies.
What do you mean by 'offenders'?
AVG Free works fine for me.
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I'm more interested in the meaning of "proggies".
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I'm more interested in the meaning of "proggies".
Diminutive of "program", which is dumb because they both contain the same goddamn number of syllables.
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I don't know what hardware you got, but a modern-ish system using a modern-ish OS shouldn't really slow down noticeably.....
In my experience its unnoticeable only when the system is unresponsive to start with - one more shovel of **** on top of a big heap won't make much of difference..
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I've never had any serious problem with AVG either but I would also recommend Comodo too, simply for the fact that it allows you to run your anti-virus, firewall and anti-malware from once single place.
I will however warn that although the virus protection is very quiet the other two frequently send up pop ups.
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I don't know what hardware you got, but a modern-ish system using a modern-ish OS shouldn't really slow down noticeably.....
In my experience its unnoticeable only when the system is unresponsive to start with - one more shovel of **** on top of a big heap won't make much of difference..
exactly.
@kara, the popup count can be adjusted via a slider. virus can either be completely silent or it can warn you about every damn thing it finds
also, on the count of dedicated av-only programs, i'd reccomend ClamAV also. silent, fast, deadly to viruses.
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Like I said, the virus thing is fairly quiet. It's the firewall and Defence+ that are noisy. Yeah you can slide them down until they are useless but that defeats the point of having a combined solution.
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AVG does cause noticable slowdown. So do Kaspersky and NOD32. I keep AVG free around for one reason: Link scanning. I use MBAM for actual weekly virus scans (Which it is a lot better at than AVG. ie: AVG couldn't find Vundo, MBAM did.)
But the best defense against viruses and trojans in the first place is "Don't do anything stupid" Which does not translate into
"all pr0n has viruz lolz" I've only ever gotten a virus from a porn site once, and it was from doing something very dumb. (Actually downloading something)
Edit: Just for the record, I have never used a firewall, and have never needed one. They generally seem to cause more problems than they're worth.
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Then I guess I must be doing something wrong. I don't notice any speed difference with AVG off, so I made my earlier remark. But in the end, Hellstryker is right, the best defence against most common virii is a working brain.
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I always plug Avast. It's quiet, it keeps the crap out, and it is good on system resources. Only problem is the lack of a firewall, but that's what routers with NAT+SPI were built for.
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I always try to use 2 different vendors for anti-virus and firewall. Still occasionally run 2 other anti-spyware programs but I don't let them stay memory resident. An occasional hijackthis scan never hurts either. Still have the hardware firewall but I do have wireless setup on the LAN side.
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I just have the basic Windows firewall always on. It does help so a hacker doesn't get access to your computer, and if Windows isn't the best, it is better than nothing.
Of all the things you could possibly use... :rolleyes:
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I dunno, MS' Firewall (at least the Vista/7 version) isn't bad, actually.
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I just have the basic Windows firewall always on. It does help so a hacker doesn't get access to your computer, ...
sorry, but.... BWHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA
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I just have the basic Windows firewall always on. It does help so a hacker doesn't get access to your computer, ...
sorry, but.... BWHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA
Yeah, I LOLed too. Nobody ever gets hacked. Firewalls DO do an excellent job at blocking stuff, I admit. You know, useful stuff.
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no, you need to have some idea about what you are talking about before you talk, you have distinguished yourself as an idiot by going blahblahblah about **** you clearly have not the beginnings of a grasp for over and over again. it is rare for a newb to catch my attention in the manner you have, but time and time again I see something unimaginably stupid posted to which I say out loud 'oh my god how can someone be so dumb' and i look and time after time I see your name attached to it. I mean are you for real or are you trolling? I'm really not sure. seriously, talk less lurk more.
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Guys, let him be...he's been around for years (he recently deleted most of his posts, thus the low postcount), and while he used to really tick me off, he's not a bad guy. Just has a unique way of expressing himself.
Let him do his thing, it's not hurting anyone.
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then why have I just recently started noticing him?
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Coincidence, maybe? He's definitely been around for a while. I believe he's been posting since at least 2004.
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Y'all cheer out and go on along your happy geeky way . . . jesus!
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Guys, let him be...he's been around for years (he recently deleted most of his posts, thus the low postcount), and while he used to really tick me off, he's not a bad guy. Just has a unique way of expressing himself.
Let him do his thing, it's not hurting anyone.
Not to mention, he's actually correct in this case. Or partially, anyway.
Software firewalls are generally a poor security solution because they rely on proper configuration at the user end and they clog system resources. They also operate on the very thing they're supposed to protect, which isn't necessarily ideal. This is why a hardware firewall (e.g. a router, or basic box with something like m0n0wall installed) is a preferable solution.
However, even with a hardware firewall, it doesn't hurt to have a little backup. The Vista firewall, when coupled with a router, is actually an excellent solution. It's unobtrusive, yet provides a minimum level of protection by warning you when something is trying to access the internet. So long as you're not an idiot that says yes to everything, it's a good thing to enable when you have a good router with NAT (SPI would be an added bonus) and don't want to deal with a full software firewall.
Loading a system with multiple antivirus programs, a full software firewall, plus an external router is just ridiculous overkill. One antivirus (and not Norton or McAffee, thanks), the Windows firewall, and a good router is all you need.
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i myself have an IPcop distro running on my oldest pc, happily doing the router job, with it running an intrusion detection system based off on snort. didnt have problems with viruses nor anything else similar since i started to use it.
comodo is still used since i do like my on-access detection of things and to prevent windozer apps from phoning back home.
all in all, its doing an extremely nice job at it, ipcop + comodo is an extremely nice solution.
also, traffic shaping anyone?
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/* reply not directed at High Max */
/* lots of angry ranting */
Over projection much?
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/* reply not directed at High Max */
/* lots of angry ranting */
Over projection much?
No, I don't think so. HM certainly picked the right target....Doesn't explain (or excuse) his lapsing into high-speed rant mode...
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no, you need to have some idea about what you are talking about before you talk, you have distinguished yourself as an idiot by going blahblahblah about **** you clearly have not the beginnings of a grasp for over and over again. it is rare for a newb to catch my attention in the manner you have, but time and time again I see something unimaginably stupid posted to which I say out loud 'oh my god how can someone be so dumb' and i look and time after time I see your name attached to it. I mean are you for real or are you trolling? I'm really not sure. seriously, talk less lurk more.
Whatever Mr know it all. I couldn't care less about your existance. From your athiest point of view, nothing has a point. I have had enough of people as it is and I don't care about fitting in or if I'm alone if it means getting away from people who treat me bad and think they know me so well. I have an extremely angry and mean side too if I'm pushed the wrong way. For the last year and a half, I have had enough of people and their inconsiderate way of thinking. I have learned that being nice got me nowhere but pain and hurt by others and being a target for being used and these days I let no one push me around.
Insects like you should be eaten by me. I assure you, I'm quite in shape and quite capable physically and mentally and far more serious and I know how to defend myself and you should come here and I will show you my full power and potential, weakling. I can be quite hateful with the way I talk and wanting revenge (mostly using my brain letting people know the truth and the bad ones can say goodbye to their reputation and I just laugh my head off like a crazy person). I even use spoof emailers sometimes and it is funny to do that to the people I hate and make them think I hacked them when I'm really just posing as their own name and email address, or just to get their attention and read my message sooner and I tell them it is just a program. They can't block it either. You have no idea how capable I am, so don't mess with me. Some people deserve no mercy or sympathy and should be exposed. You just crossed the line calling me an idiot, you meaningless insect who is too weak to handle a life without friends and is dependent on them like a child. I don't have to explain a damn thing to ungrateful disgraces to the human race, like you. I assure you I'm better than you in most ways. Come here and let me show you all my strength and intelligence and then you can say I'm an idiot. Idiots call people they don't know "idiots" and they are the true idiots and think they know it all. Maybe you are jealous of me. See if you have the nerve to talk to me like that in person after seeing how serious my face looks and how healthy and in shape I am, you nerd who doesn't do anything except computer stuff and has no balance. I've had enough and if you cme here and saw me, you might see a craziness in my eyes full of anger and hate. You should know that to be most capable, you need to improve in all areas, not just academics (very close minded). I agree with Mars when he used the word "geek". So much more to life than computers.
I could probably find a lot of info of you on the net just by typing your nickname or email address, like a detective. I notice the smallest things and it allowed me to analyze things like the way people talked and change their stories and I find out the truth about certain people and find out they lied to me or had hidden motives. That takes a lot of intelligence and determination (strength) to be like a detective and analyze things in deep detail like I do and then using that info to find out I was lied to. I doubt you can do that. Some people are so surprised how I found out so much. Oh, I did find you everywhere:
http://www.game-warden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572
http://forum.vuze.com/profile.jspa?userID=7182
http://www.phpfreaks.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=69490
http://tehwii.tehskeen.com/forums/member.php?u=19787
http://www.penguinbomb.com/nodewar/forum/showpost.php?p=25957&postcount=24
and so much more. That was easy...
I have had enough stress lately and if you want me to be really mean, I can. I don't really care if this world falls aparts. Let it and I hope it does. Nothing lasts forever and I hope I annoy the hell out of you! Even Freespace won't be around forever and FSO. You will see. Open your eyes to the truth. Everything ends in one way or another. You think you know so much. You probably have a bunch of people in your life but you take it for granted. But maybe if you had things happen enough, you would start to appreciate it. Why don't you come and meet me and then maybe you would have your mind changed in an instant. Do you think you mean anything to me? Unlike most people, I don't want or need people's help and so I'm not weak like most. I also don't want to feel like I'm using anyone so I try to do much on my own since I have certain rules and a sense of guilt in certain things, even little things sometimes.
Yeah, post count means nothing and someone grown up like me doesn't care about stupid post count or what you think since you never met me. For example, I wouldn't waste my time decorating my nickname and putting childish signatures in my nick. Yeah, you can check my profile for my register date, but that means nothing too. I almost feel I have grown beyond even being in this forum and I should just restrict myself to downloading and reading and not helping to fix up a campaign like I am, but I will make sure I upload it to Trashman when I'm ready. I went back and deleted more posts and all the ones that had advice in them too. People who show me no respect don't deserve my advice or help. You can tell that I'm educated by my ideas and my vocabulary, but I mix physical and mental strength and speed and balance with brains, unlike geeks. The ones who improve in most areas and think outside the box are the true winners in life and when you grow up more, you will see that and open your eyes!
Now I don't care if I am banned. Go ahead, do it. I've had enough. This board is full of liberal rude sarcastic childish athiests who think they know so much when no one knows everything. If I could, I would delete my account. I shouldn't be wasting my time on this forum and helping to fix a campaign because of the lack of spelling and grammar. I help others and get nothing but this? Why should I help anyone. Most people don't deserve me in their life and I owe them nothing. This time I didn't hold back and if I am banned, too bad for me.
Quoted for posterity.
That you wasted time searching for his presence online merely demonstrates how much you care despite your rants to the contrary. Doing something easy does not demonstrate strength or intelligence. Nor do ad hominem attacks. I think I can understand why someone with a god complex would have issues with atheists.
/* reply not directed at High Max */
/* lots of angry ranting */
Over projection much?
No, High Max just deleted his post that Bobboau was responding to, as he does when someone disagrees with his posts. You can see the original posts in quotes.
No, I don't think so. HM certainly picked the right target....Doesn't explain (or excuse) his lapsing into high-speed rant mode...
He does this too.
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I just love it when he accuses everyone else of being closed-minded and then posting something like that... Oh, and "liberal rude sarcastic childish atheists"? Guilty as charged. :D
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No, High Max just deleted his post that Bobboau was responding to, as he does when someone disagrees with his posts. You can see the original posts in quotes.
In order to preserve the integrity of the discussion I have restored his deleted comments. It's pretty hard to have a thread make any sense when one party deletes his comments.
Any further abuse of the edit or remove functions will result in a monkeying.
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(http://warpstorm.com/Smileys/warpstorm/mm.gif)
I didn't have the pain tolerance to bother reading any of that, but I'm sure it was an idiodic diatribe that did nothing but prove my point.
I guess you clearly did not hear my advice clearly the first time so let me make it bold and put it on it's own line so it stands out better.
STFU & Lurk More
emphasis on the STFU. tis better to be silent and thought a fool than write a forty seven page dissertation proveing it.
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shut the **** up
talk less listen more.
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I feel like I just walked into a knife fight at the Special Olympics.
:nervous:
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Do you declaim your emotions and intentions with such operatic transparency in real life as well? 'Cause if so, that pretty much makes you the raddest person I've ever encountered.
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are you for real or are you trolling?
well I guess we now know.
/*sigh*/ saveing...
Yeah, it is funny. I guess the best way to get under his skin if I wanted to is to keep talking, and now I have no problem with the continuing of my talking since I'm calmed down much more.
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What is the purpose of this "discussion" and when can we please make it end?
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actually...
apparently reporting my own post to a moderator doesn't make sence.
WTF I thought there was some sort of 'ignore user' feature? all i can find is something that pertains to PMs?
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i vote for monkeying of high max, since he's apparently "Too cool for HLP"...
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I feel like I just walked into a knife fight at the Special Olympics.
:nervous:
More like a beam exchange between a modified Orion and a Hecate.
Can you guys just stop arguing? Even the distance between the Psamtik and Cygnus Prime is centimetres compared to how far this thread is off-topic!
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No! Don't stop and don't lock. I want to see this play out to it's full and bloody conclusion please.
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No such thing on HLP. It'll just slowly die off. *points at racism thread*
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No such thing on HLP. It'll just slowly die off. *points at racism thread*
Quiet, you! :P
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So...malware in Norton...gotta hate that ****.
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So...malware in Norton...gotta hate that ****.
Somehow I don't use norton after it not detect a virus that corrupted all my data on my computer 2 years ago.
I lost about 3 years wroth of data on my computer. :mad:
Only thing I found was a outdated backup CD.
Thank a lot Norton.
That why I use Avast. :)
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I'm stuck with Symantec because I'm on a Mac. At least it works.
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I use the Microsoft OneCare, just because it was easy to find. It's worked so far, and fairly well on Vista, where nothing at all can install itself without your express approval ( :yes: Vista!). Sure people can get ticked at it, but Vista is pretty good for security.
I just laugh when something pops up that says "(such-and-such).trojan install. [password required]" It's hilarious.
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I'm stuck with Symantec because I'm on a Mac. At least it works.
:wtf:? :wtf:
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Yeah, what's up with that? I thought there weren't any Virii for Macs out there? The only reason to run any AV-Prog on MacOS or Linux is to protect some Windows boxes in your local network from swapping malware, in my experience.
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My Mac comes preinstalled with...
/me checks.
...Symantec AntiVirus for Mac, which is basically a renamed version of Norton AntiVirus. It automatically checks every storage device inserted into it for viruses. That's how I found so many Trojan horses on the thumbdrive I used to store near-critical data files. Scans are not done or scheduled and require me to do them manually.
There are other antivirus programs for the Mac; Wikipedia lists Avast! Professional, MacAfee AntiVirus, PC Tools' iAntiVirus, mine, Sophos Anti-Virus, BitDefender, Kaspersky and Clam AntiVirus as being Mac-compatible.
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Kaspersky and Avast being the best of those.
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Any popular OS has viruses. Windows has so many because
1) It's the most popular OS
2) Older versions were hideously insecure and although this has improved lately there are still lots of people running insecure versions or disabling AV on new computers because they had trouble with it in the past.
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At least Windows XP is now less vulnerable than Mac OS X...hopefully. Wikipedia lists two unpatched vulnerabilities in Windows XP as compared to Mac OS X's six.
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At least Windows XP is now less vulnerable than Mac OS X...hopefully. Wikipedia lists two unpatched vulnerabilities in Windows XP as compared to Mac OS X's six.
:wtf: Citation, pl0x
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and 4) People dont like you?
your point, egotripp?
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