Hard Light Productions Forums
General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Titan on March 17, 2009, 07:14:40 pm
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What's the best way?
I would send an armada of bombers to disable it and take out the Lred, then crash a meson-filled orion into the rear. Or just get a couple destroyers and beam it to death from the rear, after it's disabled. But crashing mesons into it is safer, since you don't have to really worry about the rest of the shivan fleet coming before you're done.
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Screw disabling it, just take out the four front beams and the LRed, and then crash something into it from ANY angle.
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Why crash anything? Just disarm and disable, then pick it off with whatever.
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Is this going to be another one of those threads where we pretend that the Sathanas will just putter along without launching fighters, maneuvering, receiving reinforcements, jumping, or taking any kind of counter-action? Those are silly!
I don't think there's any really reliable and realistic way to kill a Sath. If you pull it off, what's the point? They've got dozens, maybe hundreds more!
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how to kill a sathanas??? don't really know, FS retail campaign does not explode any weakness on the sathanas, command just deals with it with force not with brains.
and what general battuta says is right, we can pretend it does not have any escorting ships but.. hey a sath with the entire compliment of fighters/bombers is just impossible to destroy.
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Notes: I'm operating under the assumption that TAGged ships can be precision-targeted. If not, well...that's silly. Please point out flaws, and I'm also assuming the firepower I suggest would be sufficient. If not...feel free to up the required ships accordingly. I totally forget all of the exact values involved. I'm more discussing a potential strategy rather than precisely how much force would be required to execute it.
I suppose ideally speaking - assuming only one Sath "problem", with no capship escorts - I would use an operation requiring precision timing.
First wave, surprise attack of five wings of bombers with light fighter escort , jump in close and fire off enough warheads to take out the four forward beams and the LRed.
Upon stage one completion, initiate stage two, two wings of interceptors jump in, armed with TAG missiles, as well as a pair of Orion destroyers, precision-jumped into position to have firing lines on the Fighterbay and Engine systems of the Sath, respectively. LoS on both at once if possible (not sure if it is, I forget..). Destroyer escorts also jump in at this time, a pair of Deimos' and a few Aeolus', if we can get them, as well as some Leviathans for good measure and/or distraction. Those don't have to be too precise as long as they're close enough to cover the destroyers.
Stage three, interceptors TAG the fighterbay as soon as the Orions jump in, and all available capships with LoS, as well as all available bomber wings, attack it.
Upon stage three completion, stage four, interceptors TAG the comms subsystem, and it's taken out as quickly as possible, by the same method.
Upon stage four completion, interceptors proceed to TAG the engine and navigation subsystems, same as previous.
Stage five, all remaining weapons methodically destroyed (TAGged or just fired upon manually) and all remaining subsystems attacked until destroyed.
...Then just have everything available shoot it til it explodes and run away if reinforcements arrive.
Ideally you'd have extra forces on standby in order to deal with Shivan reinforcements...but that's a fair deal of firepower required just to blow up a Sath, even being intelligent about it.
Also...if another Sath arrives? Give it up and run away. Don't be stupid.
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Notes: I'm operating under the assumption that TAGged ships can be precision-targeted. If not, well...that's silly. Please point out flaws, and I'm also assuming the firepower I suggest would be sufficient. If not...feel free to up the required ships accordingly. I totally forget all of the exact values involved. I'm more discussing a potential strategy rather than precisely how much force would be required to execute it.
I suppose ideally speaking - assuming only one Sath "problem", with no capship escorts - I would use an operation requiring precision timing.
First wave, surprise attack of five wings of bombers with light fighter escort , jump in close and fire off enough warheads to take out the four forward beams and the LRed.
*snip*
Why not just send in a wave of bombers to attack the fighterbay (and the comm. system so the Sath can't call for help) first? By the time the bombers attacking the BFReds (in your plan) had finished, the Sath would have launched some of its fighters in case other enemies arrived. Attack the beam cannons second.
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This is a good point. If you took out the fighterbay you could take the beams out at...reasonable leisure. Hadn't thought of that. Excellent idea, bombers for the fighterbay, comms, then beams, then capship support...
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Notes: I'm operating under the assumption that TAGged ships can be precision-targeted. If not, well...that's silly. Please point out flaws, and I'm also assuming the firepower I suggest would be sufficient. If not...feel free to up the required ships accordingly. I totally forget all of the exact values involved. I'm more discussing a potential strategy rather than precisely how much force would be required to execute it.
I suppose ideally speaking - assuming only one Sath "problem", with no capship escorts - I would use an operation requiring precision timing.
First wave, surprise attack of five wings of bombers with light fighter escort , jump in close and fire off enough warheads to take out the four forward beams and the LRed.
Upon stage one completion, initiate stage two, two wings of interceptors jump in, armed with TAG missiles, as well as a pair of Orion destroyers, precision-jumped into position to have firing lines on the Fighterbay and Engine systems of the Sath, respectively. LoS on both at once if possible (not sure if it is, I forget..). Destroyer escorts also jump in at this time, a pair of Deimos' and a few Aeolus', if we can get them, as well as some Leviathans for good measure and/or distraction. Those don't have to be too precise as long as they're close enough to cover the destroyers.
Stage three, interceptors TAG the fighterbay as soon as the Orions jump in, and all available capships with LoS, as well as all available bomber wings, attack it.
Upon stage three completion, stage four, interceptors TAG the comms subsystem, and it's taken out as quickly as possible, by the same method.
Upon stage four completion, interceptors proceed to TAG the engine and navigation subsystems, same as previous.
Stage five, all remaining weapons methodically destroyed (TAGged or just fired upon manually) and all remaining subsystems attacked until destroyed.
...Then just have everything available shoot it til it explodes and run away if reinforcements arrive.
Ideally you'd have extra forces on standby in order to deal with Shivan reinforcements...but that's a fair deal of firepower required just to blow up a Sath, even being intelligent about it.
Also...if another Sath arrives? Give it up and run away. Don't be stupid.
This is one of those awesome plans that would never, ever work.
The Sath could jump out at any time. The Sath could launch dozens of fighters before the fighterbay ever got hit. And this is all assuming that you could ever get that number of forces in place and get them into position on time.
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Oh, I know it's really, really touchy, and far from a good shot. But I will revise that with having the first bomber attack focus all fire on the fighterbay, then the comms, finally beams, then calling in capship support, thanks to an earlier comment that made me realize I was sucky at plans.
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It's not an awful plan, by any means, and coming up with these elaborate tactics is fun.
But the whole lesson of FS2 is that, well, plans don't really work on the Shivans. Maybe in the short term. Maybe you'd get lucky and catch one Sath without escort and disable it with huge numbers of Helios warheads and then kill it. We can pretend that the Shivans wouldn't tear the bombers to shreds, or that we have enough Helios warheads to do it, or that the concentration of Allied forces wouldn't bring an equally massive swarm of Liliths and Ravanas to bear.
And then, well, God alone knows what hits you next.
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Oh...I know. We kill one Sath perfectly, they bring in 27 simultaneously next time. Or one, then ambush with 48 more. Or just nuke the GTVA planet-by-planet. But it's still fun to try to invent a plan to take out a single un-escorted sath.
I don't even want to know what happens after Saths.
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If you know it's coming and where put a large object right in front of it as it jumps in. When it hits it doing nearly 999 by by Sath.
Park a support ship and a wing of bombers in the fighter bay
Dock a drone to a Meson and send it into the fighter bay.
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It does seem likely that the Shivans would use scouts. We've never seen a Sath jump in without fighters or other Shivan forces coming in first.
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The thing about the Sathanas is that to get the internal fighter escort to manageable levels, the fighters/bombers numbers must be drained over a long-term period like in FS2 or hit the fighterbays quickly in which time the Sathanas would escape.
However, it is viable to hit the engines and the fighterbay in a short space of time as if Shivan ships follow Terran or Vasudan launching rules, it would take some time for a massive Shivan fighter force to emerge from the fighterbay once the initial escort is taken down.
That said, it only works if the Sathanas admiral assumes that it won't be directly assaulted any time soon and won't prepare defensive fighters in advance.
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Maybe someone could test the efficacy of the above plan by fredding something? :)
Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, it would still be fun to find out.
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I'm wondering if you could achieve the same effect if you collapsed an inter-system jump as you do when you collapse an intra-system jump? If it were, you could come up with some interesting weapons
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The original Sath-killing plan should work quite well. Maybe only in a nebula enviroment, but still. That's sending a diversion to lure the sath into a trap, tag its beam cannons so that 3 friendly destroyers take out the main beam cannons. Then it's only a matter of time.
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Are we allowed to engineer new weapons to aid our strategies?
Because if so, follow Sun Tzu's art of war: The victorious warrior only seeks battle after the victory has been won.
Use a massive stealth fighter deployment to target and destroy the weapons subsystems aboard the Sathanas and her escort. Have them warp away, and begin bombardment with Nuclear Railguns (imagine harbingers being fired out of the Orion's main guns, except with 40 times the velocity) and Long Range Assault Missiles (FS equivalent of an RIM-161 Standard Missile 3), targeting the anti-fighter weapons, and then deploy bombers to declaw the Sathanas. Summon your legions to finish the job. The initial stealth attack only targets weapons subsystems so that fighters can stay on the move, not get slowed down working on multiple turrets, and finish the job as fast as possible. I'm sure they all have families who would like to see them again. This sets the stage for the second bombardment: without weapons control, the Sath fleet won't be able to intercept the missiles (which are traveling so fast only ship-board defenses can stop them). The Nuclear railguns pulverize shipboard defenses, clearing the way for the bombers and final assault.
Of course, if the Railguns and missiles are that accurate, why not just pwn the sath's main beams then and there? Because this is FreeSpace: THERE MUST BE BEAMS.
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Or something like that awesome GVD Apothess, a ship that concentrates on one, cool, beam. A couple of those at long range could do some serious damage.
Alpha 1 in an ursa would also work very well. If the two armadas were so powerful and quickly launched that they negated each other so in-game only the Sath and Alpha 1 appear.
Amazon kamikaze fighters would own a target quickly.
Alpha 1 in an ursa attacks with several (maybe 3) bomber wings and target the beams with heavy escort (say, 6 wings). Hatshepsut follows and jumps in front of the sath and batters the sath with it's beams. A wing or two of Amazons could charge in and kamikaze the fighter bays, bombers continue in and periodically take out fighter bays, weapons, communications, engines, defensive turrets. If there are (most likely) corvettes and cruisers escorting, the hattie could concentrate on them first and maybe a couple of corvettes as back up. If a destroyer jumps in, decide wether you can possibly win and if you thinks you can, find a way to withdraw if you need to, if another juggernaut jumps in, bug out. Or send in something like the icanus.
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If there was only 1 Sath (and its escorts) this is probably how I'd go:
First of all, it'd be a prolonged engagement, a campaign maybe. Hit and run and ambushes to lure out the escorts (possibly fighter/bomber wings, too) and destroy. A Sath with any escorts, even just 1 extra destroyer would lower the success rate significantly.
After that's done, begin hit and run attacks on the Sath itself. When the main assault begins, comm systems should be priority, I'd probably even bring in a jammer. After engines, we don't our target jumping out prematurely. After that's done, main beam cannons so we can bring in heavier firepower (destroyers).
Of course, this tactic would not have worked on the 1st Sath in retail. =/ It probably would've worked fine for the Ravana.
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I've thought a few times of a campaign involving just that.
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Can we actually jam Shivan comms with a guarantee of success, especially with a warship that large, having (presumably) very powerful communications systems?
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That's why comm systems are a priority target. In fact all comm systems on all ships should be a priority.
1 Sath is hard enough to kill... Sath calling in reinforcements. *shudders*
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= 80+ saths :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: +
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My plan:
It took me some 2 fighter and 4 bomber wings to cripple a Sath, the fighters simply orbited near the hangar bay, and generally shot most of the SF's before they even had a chance to afterburn away and start a big dogfight, while the bombers needed 12-14 minutes IIRC to disable the ship. If the Sath has any escorts, I wouldn't bother to do anything with them, except for maybe disarming a beam or 2 to make the Hat's mission survivable.
If the Hat can stay in the battle area, it can slowly sink the Sath. If not, the SJ is already mission killed and we can move on to the next one.
In the mean time, the already stopped SJ will need to be watched, by stealth fighters, to make sure there are no repair ops going on.
If new tech is allowed, I'd add stealthy combat ships the size of Argo's, one loaded with AAA beams and Flak guns, the second one being a micro-carrier, and the third a stealthy supply unit. I'd also make a Pegasus variant that can load Kaysers and some more missiles, and another one that can carry Cyclopses (2 would be enough) and Maxim guns.
Such units would attack the Shivans behind their lines, hide easily in nebulas, dust clouds, asteroid fields, or even near single big rocks. The stealth strike craft would attack the Shivans where they are weak- cargo ships, transports and gas miners. That would keep the Shivans' repair rate slower than the GTVA could damage their ships, and after a few weeks their would be dozens of SJ's floating around, waiting to be finished off.
All ships would require quick charging subspace drives and massive sensors to keep one step ahead of anything cruiser size or larger (at least until the big ships wake up without beams and engines). They could also be sleepers during combat in their system (floating in some hiding spots), and activate once the main Shivan force moves beyond them, giving a safer environment to work in.
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Just remembered something else my plan would need.
Frequent recon flights, and very good intel. =/
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No kidding. "Very good intel" seems something the Shivans love to upset every other mission, though.
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Would it actually be possible to have kaysers and cyclops on stealth craft? Wouldn't the shivans notice their systems and turrets were going even if they didn't notice the attackers?
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I'd certainly think they would...and I don't believe the energy from the shots is invisible.
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I'd certainly think they would...and I don't believe the energy from the shots is invisible.
IIRC, as soon as you use afterburners or weapons in a stealth fighter, you give your position away. Sometimes not with the afterburners unless you are close to the enemy, but certainly with weapons.
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By the time the explosions begin the stealth ships should be running the hell away, and by the time Shivans get backup there should only be smoke and debris left, if the plan gets played out properly.
Also notice that the Ptah flew near a Sath for a pretty long time in that recon mission in FS 2, I think the GTVA is better in hiding than the Shivans are in searching, so the strikers may have time to calmly find nice targets, lock on, and fire at really close ranges.
If the Shivans know what fear is, they'll feel it a lot. If they don't- well... it's never too late to learn. :p
Also any massive search operation to find the stealthy spec-ops ships would mean much less escorts near the Saths, allowing more frequent mission killing missions, and more of those missions would end in an epic boom. I don't know if they'd come up with counter-tactics, but if not, they'd be stopped before they'd get the GTVA.
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Send Alpha 1. He completes every mission.
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By the time the explosions begin the stealth ships should be running the hell away, and by the time Shivans get backup there should only be smoke and debris left, if the plan gets played out properly.
Also notice that the Ptah flew near a Sath for a pretty long time in that recon mission in FS 2, I think the GTVA is better in hiding than the Shivans are in searching, so the strikers may have time to calmly find nice targets, lock on, and fire at really close ranges.
If the Shivans know what fear is, they'll feel it a lot. If they don't- well... it's never too late to learn. :p
Also any massive search operation to find the stealthy spec-ops ships would mean much less escorts near the Saths, allowing more frequent mission killing missions, and more of those missions would end in an epic boom. I don't know if they'd come up with counter-tactics, but if not, they'd be stopped before they'd get the GTVA.
The Sathanas has AWACS, right? Sorry, man, nothing involving stealth is going to work.
'Monster in the Mist' probably involved the Shivans just totally disregarding the Ptah. (EDIT: It appears the Sath is a 'partial' AWACS and can only perceive stealth ships at intervals.)
Send Alpha 1. He completes every mission.
Go play on Insane, Ephili.
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Notes: I'm operating under the assumption that TAGged ships can be precision-targeted. If not, well...that's silly. Please point out flaws, and I'm also assuming the firepower I suggest would be sufficient. If not...feel free to up the required ships accordingly. I totally forget all of the exact values involved. I'm more discussing a potential strategy rather than precisely how much force would be required to execute it.
I suppose ideally speaking - assuming only one Sath "problem", with no capship escorts - I would use an operation requiring precision timing.
First wave, surprise attack of five wings of bombers with light fighter escort , jump in close and fire off enough warheads to take out the four forward beams and the LRed.
*snip*
Why not just send in a wave of bombers to attack the fighterbay (and the comm. system so the Sath can't call for help) first? By the time the bombers attacking the BFReds (in your plan) had finished, the Sath would have launched some of its fighters in case other enemies arrived. Attack the beam cannons second.
The armor on the Sathanas is remarkably thick, specificaly around the subsystems. If a few direct hits from a BF green to the engines of a sath (ive never payed any attention to multiple hits on its other subsystems) doesnt knock it out, you'd have to send one heck-of allot of bombers.
Now, in a world of remarkably idiotic shivans, we could get away with a Collie-worth of Ursa bombers jumping in to land enough Helios' on the Comms system, and the fighterbay, in a short enough time for them not to bleed fighters into space, maybe.. But, that many bombers would prompt an immidate response from the shivans, weather or not they stayed to fight or jumped out. A number small enough to wipe out critical subsystems on the Sathanas and evade the whole Sea-of-shivans would probably get wasted by the guarding ships.. At least in my opinion.
In bearbateing on higher dificulties, my bombers and escort were in shambles when trying to engage the escorts along with takeing out just a few turrets
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I made a mission where there was a Sathy, escorted by a Moloch, Rakshasa, and Lilith, as well as a ton of fighters and bombers.
On the GTVA side there was a Sobek, Orion, and a Hades (modified with beams to have slightly more firepower than the Orion) as well as fighters and bombers.
Based on angles of attack and precise strategies, the GTVA side wins (with one plot device thing to keep the Sathy from warping out)
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That'd be very touchy to actually execute, I'm sure, but that'd be rather along the idea of what I'd go for, had I to make the choice.
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I made a mission where there was a Sathy, escorted by a Moloch, Rakshasa, and Lilith, as well as a ton of fighters and bombers.
On the GTVA side there was a Sobek, Orion, and a Hades (modified with beams to have slightly more firepower than the Orion) as well as fighters and bombers.
Based on angles of attack and precise strategies, the GTVA side wins (with one plot device thing to keep the Sathy from warping out)
Really? How did the destroyers avoid getting vaporized?
The Sath should be able to turn fast enough to take them out. Did you use attack orders, or waypoints?
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I think the best method to kill a Sathanas with as few casualties as possible is to attack from the rear, where the only threat to warships is an LRed. I believe the fighterbay is there as well. Get a few wings of bombers and fighters to jump in with anything of corvette class or larger (including Volition Bravos). The warship should target the LRed and blow it up first while the bombers go after the Fighterbay. Once the LRed is gone, the warship should target and blow up the fighterbay next.
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I think the best method to kill a Sathanas with as few casualties as possible is to attack from the rear, where the only threat to warships is an LRed. I believe the fighterbay is there as well. Get a few wings of bombers and fighters to jump in with anything of corvette class or larger (including Volition Bravos). The warship should target the LRed and blow it up first while the bombers go after the Fighterbay. Once the LRed is gone, the warship should target and blow up the fighterbay next.
It's not so hard for the Sathanas to turn around, big enough as it is though unless it involves hit and run attacks. And as Tantalus53 said, the subsystem plating of a Sathanas is very thick which may prolong the raid.
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A volition bravos owns everything in time.
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Best way to kill a Sath.
~ + K a lot of times. :p
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Wait a second, aren't fighter bay's invulnerable?
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In almost all stuff FS, yes. A few campaigns have exceptions to that rule though.
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Wait a second, aren't fighter bay's invulnerable?
That's a retail-only feature, I think.
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Some ships have had alterations made to them so that their fighterbays can be blown up.
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The Moloch in Testing Grounds' fighterbay was destructible IIRC.
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If a fighterbay is destroy-able or not is set in the tables.
Most ships give it an %HP of 0, making it an indestructible subsystem.
However, the one on the Sath IS destroy-able.
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In my campaign setting, I had the GTVA dump unholy amounts of resources to developing an anti-juggernaut weapon, the end result is a penetrating delayed-detonation Meson warhead which burrows deep into the hull of the target and detonates.
Probably not what you were hoping for, but I'm hoping it remains in the realm of plausibility.
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Well, it would certainly looks cool if the engine could show it (like some thing attaching to the surface of the sath, drilling in, then inserting the warhead or something). Too bad the engine can't (well, unless you make it a rendered cutscene :P)
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Hold on! Isn't the hull of a ship able to hold out against unholy amounts of firepower from the vacuum of space to LRBGreens? So a small detonating charge trying to burrow into the hull would be extremely difficult right?
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So it has a BFGreen on it. no-one said anything about small. :p
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That's why I said a DRILL!
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Have two wings disable it and another wing take out the four main lasers. Then bomb away...right? :nervous:
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With anything you want, doesn't have to be bombs (but if your going to use blobs, you'd better watch out for other ships).
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Mass Aeolus Kamikaze.
Where was that animated GIF of it?
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Several hundred nukes or 20 or so colly's :drevil:. Or as Droid said, a really big drill.
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/Misc-Pics/Aeolus02.gif (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/Misc-Pics/Aeolus02.gif) this one?
And some ursas
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/Misc-Pics/MoreShoals04.jpg)
attacking
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/Misc-Pics/MoreShoals01.jpg)
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Hold on! Isn't the hull of a ship able to hold out against unholy amounts of firepower from the vacuum of space to LRBGreens? So a small detonating charge trying to burrow into the hull would be extremely difficult right?
Who said anything about small? This thing will probably wind up being bigger than a Seraphim.
As for the strong hull, yeah, that's a problem I'm choosing to ignore. I wanted a Sathanas solution that wasn't just another bigass ship, that route has been done and done to death.
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It seems like that many ursas so close together would provide a large enough target signature for a main beam. Flyswatter time!
But even still; HOLY CRAPZ.
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...and the sky full of Ursas and Helii.
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Actually, by small i thought it would be the size of an elysium
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Actually, by small i thought it would be the size of an elysium
Seraphim's actually quite a lot bigger. It really is grotesque how huge that bomber is. Freakin' thing is a quarter to a third the length of a Cain, for cryin' out loud.
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I'd love to see one inside the Imperial War Museum..
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I made a mission where there was a Sathy, escorted by a Moloch, Rakshasa, and Lilith, as well as a ton of fighters and bombers.
On the GTVA side there was a Sobek, Orion, and a Hades (modified with beams to have slightly more firepower than the Orion) as well as fighters and bombers.
Based on angles of attack and precise strategies, the GTVA side wins (with one plot device thing to keep the Sathy from warping out)
Really? How did the destroyers avoid getting vaporized?
The Sath should be able to turn fast enough to take them out. Did you use attack orders, or waypoints?
The Orion stayed out of range and launched bombers, while the Hades jumped in from behind and flanked it while out of its firing arc (it couldn't turn without hitting the Sobek which was actually in front of it but too close for its BFReds to target) - I figured this out with a lot of experimenting. Not to mention the BFReds were usually taken out by bombers by the time the Hades arrived
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The best way to kill a Sath is to forget to beam-free it.
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The best way to kill a Sath is to forget to beam-free it.
:confused:
and the best way to kill a roach is to let it go?
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The best way to kill a Sath is to forget to beam-free it.
:lol:
:confused:
and the best way to kill a roach is to let it go?
Well...if you think of it in the way of Snail...I think the best way to kill a roach is not to have it grow legs. Unfortunately, it has legs, so too bad for us. :p
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...
mmm what about...
6 fighter wings and two bomber wings engage the sath in a distraction effort, them 10 wings of Myrmidons each armed with 2 Helios jumps in from behind, two wings for each engine, enter closes in, launch bombs at the engines and jump out.
It will be enoght to disable it... after that its just a matter of bring the big guns at the flanks.
The problem is... it will only work once, or twice, after that they will know it. And there are hundred of saths.
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Mrymidons can be equipped with Helios?
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Mrymidons can be equipped with Helios?
Yes although it is amusing to a Myrm fire two Helios torpedoes that are individually about the size the Myrm itself.
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Mrymidons can be equipped with Helios?
Yes. Go play the mission "I Did Not Get Paid For This" in JAD3:SoaP to see them in action.
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Its a table flub.
Just like how GVB Bakas are compatible with Helios as Primary Weapons.
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Its a table flub.
Just like how GVB Bakas are compatible with Helios as Primary Weapons.
I've gotta try that.
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How does that even work out?
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*snip*
Heh. I remember that thread. Errors ftw. :P
tl'dr most of the thread but:
To kill a Sath use ~+K.
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To kill a Sath use ~+K.
No, ~ + Alt + Shift + K
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In my campaign setting, I had the GTVA dump unholy amounts of resources to developing an anti-juggernaut weapon, the end result is a penetrating delayed-detonation Meson warhead which burrows deep into the hull of the target and detonates.
Probably not what you were hoping for, but I'm hoping it remains in the realm of plausibility.
Didn't they make a couple (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armageddon_(1998_film)) of movies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Impact_(film)) like that?
*Alpha 1 grasps the detonator in his hand*
"WE WIN GRACIE--er, COMMAND!"
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To kill a Sath use ~+K.
No, ~ + Alt + Shift + K
... Isn't ~+K quicker?
Anyways, if you really wanted to kill A Sath, and just the one; you could always just throw two whole GTVA fleets at it. Back stab the Sath, and keep using your ships to pound away or distract it.
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To kill a Sath use ~+K.
No, ~ + Alt + Shift + K
... Isn't ~+K quicker?
Anyways, if you really wanted to kill A Sath, and just the one; you could always just throw two whole GTVA fleets at it. Back stab the Sath, and keep using your ships to pound away or distract it.
No, I think they're the same akshully. ~+K does 100,000 points of damage, while Alt+Shift+K just does 10% damage to the ship regardless of its HP. Since the Sath has 1,000,000HP I guess they would both take 10 goes to kill a Sath.
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If Alt Shift K only does 10% of hull then that would never kill a Sath.
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If Alt Shift K only does 10% of hull then that would never kill a Sath.
You're not very bright, are you? :P
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So it damages 10% of the original hull strength...
I don't even use cheats, and now I regret posting that comment. >_<
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I'm quite sicks of discussions that derail because of cheats. This was supposed to be a serious thread(or, at least, an acceptable one). Cut the spam, guys... :doubt:
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I remember using `+k on myself once. . . Said I died from collision with Alpha 1, if I remember right.
Anyway, the best way to kill one would be a meson bomb placed on one end of the node, then send in bombers to disarm the 4 beams and afterwards, a group of mjolnirs placed around the node in a large radius would finish it off. Have a small battlegroup farther away to pick off any runners or smaller ships and to provide further fighter and bomber support. Colossus engaging any shivan ships already in the system, but ready to reinforce the node blockade. Freighters and transports constantly moving/fixing/replacing mjolnirs and meson bombs. Should any of them run out- improvise. Cargo with ammunition in place of meson bombs and smaller capships ( eventually, the battlegroup itself ) in place of mjolnirs. ALWAYS keeping a large fighter and bomber screen there, and hope that this works out.
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Too bad that the Shivans are likely to sortie tons of spacecraft which would decimate Mjolnir RBCs and might also take the Meson Bomb down even before the arrival of the Sathanas...
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In FS2, the GTVA has fighter/bomber superiority. Better weapons, more gunpoints, etc... Plus, place a cruiser nearby with overcharged beams, and it'll be sniping their fighters and bombers with ease.
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It has superiority only because of balancing purposes. Shivan primaries have been weakened on purposes, we have no knowledge of arsenals of Shivan secondaries and spacecraft like the Nahema and the Mara are incredibly effective.
Only because in FS2 we take a lot of Shivan stuff down it doesn't mean the Shivans are weak. It's only an impression given by the fact that we don't play the game as a Shivan.
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I was talking of an in-game tactic, so what you just posted doesn't count.
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I'm quite sicks of discussions that derail because of cheats. This was supposed to be a serious thread(or, at least, an acceptable one). Cut the spam, guys... :doubt:
The thing is, there is no real definitive way to kill a Sath, or anything for that matter. There are far too many variables, such as, where is it, how many ships can you sortie in time, does it have capital ship support, etc. etc. Just like there is no surefire way to resolve a hostage situation, for example.
Bull**** statements like "send in 80 Ursas" or "just throw in a few dozen Orions and Hecates" are just about as pointless as using cheats. There's no way you'd be able to sortie that many bombers in any reasonable space of time from an in-universe perspective. In order to have a proper discussion on the topic, a simple scenario such as "How to kill a Sath?!?!?!" isn't enough.
But HLP is not Spacebattles.com so screwit.
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I was talking of an in-game tactic, so what you just posted doesn't count.
Meh, Universe related discussions are to be taken in consideration. It's quite idiotic to base discussions on the fact that 1) the player's faction always wins, 2) there are no arsenals of Shivan secondaries and 3) Shivan primaries have been weakened for balancing purposes.
Bull**** statements like "send in 80 Ursas" or "just throw in a few dozen Orions and Hecates" are just about as pointless as using cheats. There's no way you'd be able to sortie that many bombers in any reasonable space of time from an in-universe perspective. In order to have a proper discussion on the topic, a simple scenario such as "How to kill a Sath?!?!?!" isn't enough.
I agree. Wholeheartedly.
Discussions, even if strictly ingame-specific, are to be based on Universe-related facts.
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Ok, scenario 1:
Lone sath, with a fighterbay full of FS1 era fighters and bombers. Jumps out if you take more than 3 minutes to disable it.
Scenario 2:
Sath escorted by 1 ravana, 1 demon, 2 molochs, 2 rakshasas, and 2 cains. Lots of mixed fighters.
Scenario 3:
Shivan armada, led by sath, tries to run a blockade.
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Scenario 1:
I'd go for nav or engines first, depending on which one it needs to jump. Secondary would be comm and fighterbay.
My attack force would consist of bomber wings with fighter escorts. Frigates and maybe an Aeolus.
Scenario 2:
Those extra destroyers do make things more difficult this time. Any lone fighter/bomber wings would be completely wasted. Lots of recon and diversionary tactics to draw of those destroyers.
For the Sath, wings to destroy the beams and an Orion for the kill. Corvettes and extra wings for the remaining escorts.
Scenario 3:
General idea would be to divide and conquer. Any blockade facing the whole armada would be suicide, even with those OP Mjolnirs.
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Ok, scenario 1:
Lone sath, with a fighterbay full of FS1 era fighters and bombers. Jumps out if you take more than 3 minutes to disable it.
Scenario 2:
Sath escorted by 1 ravana, 1 demon, 2 molochs, 2 rakshasas, and 2 cains. Lots of mixed fighters.
Scenario 3:
Shivan armada, led by sath, tries to run a blockade.
You didn't get my point.
What I was saying is that theoretical stuff like this is bull****. You have to actually have a proper scenario - A scenario you would actually base a campaign on. Hypothetical stuff like this isn't enough to actually go on.
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Once again, I agree... :yes:
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well then don't take part. :rolleyes:
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Wrong. The point is that there shouldn't be any idiotic scenarios.
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Actually, if you don't like this thread, then don't post here. Simple.
And since I based my scenario on in-game stuff, don't bring in-universe facts in there. In-universe, it's likely that all that I mentioned in my scenario would be annihilated by a single Sath.
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I'm quite sicks of discussions that derail because of cheats. This was supposed to be a serious thread(or, at least, an acceptable one). Cut the spam, guys... :doubt:
The thing is, there is no real definitive way to kill a Sath, or anything for that matter. There are far too many variables, such as, where is it, how many ships can you sortie in time, does it have capital ship support, etc. etc. Just like there is no surefire way to resolve a hostage situation, for example.
Bull**** statements like "send in 80 Ursas" or "just throw in a few dozen Orions and Hecates" are just about as pointless as using cheats. There's no way you'd be able to sortie that many bombers in any reasonable space of time from an in-universe perspective. In order to have a proper discussion on the topic, a simple scenario such as "How to kill a Sath?!?!?!" isn't enough.
But HLP is not Spacebattles.com so screwit.
Yeah, this. Though I would've put it a bit more diplomatically, I concur with the general sentiment.
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Yeah, this. Though I would've put it a bit more diplomatically, I concur with the general sentiment.
I don't do diplomacy.
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Yeah, this. Though I would've put it a bit more diplomatically, I concur with the general sentiment.
I don't do diplomacy.
Not a problem, good sir! By no means do I want to reprimand your style. To each his own, wot wot, carry on!
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Stag Hare... :p
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Well this one went to hell in a handbasket...