Hard Light Productions Forums
Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => FS2 Open Coding - The Source Code Project (SCP) => Topic started by: karajorma on March 22, 2009, 07:07:38 pm
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I'm definitely not promising to implement these any time soon but what other built-in messages are needed/would be nice.
One that springs immediately to mind is one similar to the rearm one which is used if ballistic primaries are out. Some of the current ones would work but "Missile banks depleted! Calling in support" definitely doesn't :)
Messages for being out of fuel would also be useful if FS2_Open ever supports a fuel system (Which looks pretty likely given that I have code to do that sitting on my HD thanks to LuaPineapple).
Any others?
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I reckon there are a bunch of things that there are existing messages for, but for which the messages aren't very specific.
Mostly I'm thinking of wingman directives.
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I really doubt it's worth making them more specific though.
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A revision of the error checking that (for release builds) calculates VP FileCount and VP FileSize to a list and warns (without breaking out) that there is a discrepency so that a Debug can be launched to get the checksum to look up?
Or am I thinking the wrong kind of messages here?
(On a related to this note: I'm in communication with Kevin Bentley (who gave us the existing CRC system) to try and optimize it. I already have it to where -verify_vps is no longer needed as a command line option, since it generates the same value in the debug log. I'm working on making that value match the CRC value generated by Zip/7z CRC checking so that log results can be verified against external applications.)
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Homeworld mod will be glad for a fuel system, I can tell ya that.
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Or am I thinking the wrong kind of messages here?
Wrong kind. I'm on about in-mission dialogue. Every spoken line you'll hear comes from one of two sources. Either you have dialogue that the mission designer added themselves or you have built in messages which are defined in messages.tbl. Built-in messages are played whenever the code feels that they are needed. So if the code notices an enemy fighter on your tail it will send a message and one of your wingmen will shout something like "Check your six!" or "Behind you, pilot!"
Built ins are easy to recognise, any time you hear a voice in a mission that doesn't have voice acting, it will be one of FS2's built ins.
What I'm asking is which others might we want to add in the future. That's nice from the feature standpoint but it's also good for mods and TCs to have an idea what might be coming in the future so that they can record their voice acting now to support it. Adding a couple of extra lines which are currently unused isn't going to cause huge problems but they'll be glad they did it if the engine ever supports them.
An example of this is the Oops 1 dialogue. :v: recorded every single pilot shouting something in cases of friendly fire but eventually decided to not use them. When I was solving another issue with built-ins I noticed this and turned them back on. As a result you no longer only hear "Invalid target! Hold your fire!" but also a whole host of new messages which didn't play in retail.
Similarly if WCS want the SCP to add a message when a ship goes into autopilot or something (Not that I'm promising anything), now's a good time to ask.
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"Seeker open!!!, Fox Two, Fox Two!!!"
"Missiles/Bombs away!!!"
(And more random text like that :lol:)
When launching a missile/bomb/etc; maybe make it adjustable like i.e. have a random squadmate say it once at the beginning of a mission when on approach to a target and his/her missile is already locked onto the enemy fighter...
I for one would love that even though it doesn't have that much purpose to me... unless the more 'advanced' people around here can find creative uses for it in FRED or something.
Pardon the lameness, but that's all I can think of atm. XDDDDDDD
Or some other speech, like deploying countermeasures when dodging a missile...?
That what you're at?
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I always thought messages for when ai pilots get a kill would be good. I mean, they congratulate me on MY kills, shouldn't they be leaping for joy too?
I'm pretty sure you could get some similar sounding voice actors if you ever wanted to voice these.
"Oh yeah, bandit down!"
"Target neutralised!"
Hey, you could even use the "Objective neutralised" message. If you've ever played any of the games in the Combat Flight Simulator games you'll notice wingmen call out occasionally when they get a kill.
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I don't know how feasible it would be but yeah, it's a nice idea.
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I don't know how feasible it would be but yeah, it's a nice idea.
I'm no coder so I'm not very helpful on that front. I can think of several ways to FRED it however.
I'm looking at messages.tbl at the moment, I've not a clue how the hell it could be implemented, since I don't know how "Praise" is triggered in it's exact form and where, but if it were possibly to make a new entry in whatever table that's stored in which accounts for ai-wingmen getting a kill then it would be possible I'm guessing. I know ****-all about coding so completely disregard it if it's unfeasible.
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I mean I don't know how feasible it is because I haven't looked at the code at all. I've got a vague idea how to add new built-ins but right now I'm trying to figure out if there are enough useful ones to make it worth me fiddling with the current system.
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I mean I don't know how feasible it is because I haven't looked at the code at all. I've got a vague idea how to add new built-ins but right now I'm trying to figure out if there are enough useful ones to make it worth me fiddling with the current system.
Ahh forgive me then. I'll leave you to your devices, as I've stressed many times before, I can't tell **** from bananas when it comes to these things.
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Feel free to make other suggestions. As long as you have a good idea what built-in messages are you can always suggest some. I might say that it's too hard but that doesn't mean it can't be done. :)
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Well, since you mentioned WCS ;)
It would be nice to have Request status feature from WC games. I loved checking on escorts/wingmen. ;)
Not that it is possible without major changes to the comm system, I guess. What should be possible if wingmen would report on their own kills. Kinda like "nailed that sucker!".
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I _thought_ those friendly fire messages sounded different...
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Have the wingmen send that "fighter down!" message when AI fighters die, not just when the player bites it. Maybe not every time, and mix up the messages.
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Mixing up the messages isn't possible due to the way the system works at the moment. Of course it might be possible to change that.
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I'd like to know if the following are doable:
- Praise Mk II
Played when the number of kills achieved by the player is pretty high during the mission. The minimum number required to trigger this might be the result of this calculation:
number of kills => 1/5 number of hostiles
...or something similar. :D
- Self praise
What Tolwyn said - wingmen rarely send messages when they score kills.
- Subsystems' destruction
Wingmen come out with specific messages if vital subsystems of their spacecraft(engines, navigation, weapons, sensors, communications) are down. If the communications subsystem is down, the message would be nearly unreadable. :D
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I'd like to know if the following are doable:
- Praise Mk II
Played when the number of kills achieved by the player is pretty high during the mission. The minimum number required to trigger this might be the result of this calculation:
number of kills => 1/5 number of hostiles
...or something similar. :D
Almost ridiculously easy if I hardcode the number. Very easy if I stick the number in the AI Profile.
- Self praise
What Tolwyn said - wingmen rarely send messages when they score kills.
Compiling as we speak. No idea if it will work though. :D
- Subsystems' destruction
Wingmen come out with specific messages if vital subsystems of their spacecraft(engines, navigation, weapons, sensors, communications) are down. If the communications subsystem is down, the message would be nearly unreadable. :D
Probably possible.
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"Bombs away" type messages would be cool, maybe automated 50%, 10% hull warnings for friendly/hostile caps (possibly linked to the escort list and off by default so as not to trigger in existing missions), although it might be difficult to word it so it sounds both natural and generic.
Can't think of too many other useful ones for the moment, but if the random mission generator is ever to come to pass, generic messages for warping in and out of friendly caps (again, off by default) would be very useful :nod:
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To be honest I think that 10% hull warnings are the FREDder's job to add. They're far too likely to change depending on the mission circumstances to be something that should be entered in a table.
Bombs away might be nice but I'd probably want to hear them less often that that.
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I agree, anything related to capships is a matter of FREDding. :nod:
I find the builtin messages about damaged AWACS a bit pointless, although they have their use.
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Since we're talking about WC, it might be fun to include an option for trading insults, whether by your wingmen or by you (perhaps an extra option in the communications menu: Ships, Wings, All Fighters, Enemy). In the WC series, it's possible to open a channel to Kilrathi pilots and say unflattering things to them, so implementing a similar functionality might be amusing, if pointless. I don't know what would be useful as an AI trigger for it, though.
"Eat sand, Zod-head", "Bugs Bunny ****s his mother", etc., etc.
Tolwyn knows what I'm talking about. :D
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Trading insults probably should be done via changes to comms and not builtins (or at least a mixture of the two).
Anyway here's a build where wingmen brag about their kills. Since I wanted to check it was working correctly they brag after every single kill (Something I'll probably tone down to one time in ten most likely). Since :v: didn't record voice acting for all the personae and I wanted the stuff to for the bragging to be distinctive I edited the entries for Stray into Praise Self. So whenever the AI kills something they'll say a line about how you're off course or ignoring the objectives or something. :)
Since this is a build from my branch it has a lot of features trunk doesn't yet have. This stuff will go in after 3.6.10 is out.
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so i can haz build plz?
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Trading insults reminds me of Starlancer for some reason... XD
How random is the "timer" before anything is said? (just curious)
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so i can haz build plz?
Strange, I could have sworn I linked it.
Anyway , here (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Misc-Downloads/Builds/NewBuiltIns.7z) it is.
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so i can haz build plz?
Strange, I could have sworn I linked it.
Anyway , here (http://www.freespacefaq.com/Misc-Downloads/Builds/NewBuiltIns.7z) it is.
Will test asap :)
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Is it messages.tbl friendly? :)
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You'd know if you'd actually downloaded it. :p
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Are the additions going to become standard issue among all builds(anytime soon)? ;7
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Well as far as I could tell it worked (Y)
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Cool. :D
Gave it a try in some random mission in the stock FS2 campaign and it blends in nicely imo... at least till the pilots started their spamming :lol:
And those messages make it sound like fellow Alpha 1 the ace pilot doesn't care for the mission at all :wtf: :lol: XD
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Cool. :D
Gave it a try in some random mission in the stock FS2 campaign and it blends in nicely imo... at least till the pilots started their spamming :lol:
And those messages make it sound like fellow Alpha 1 the ace pilot doesn't care for the mission at all :wtf: :lol: XD
Yeah, maybe replace the messages to the same list as under "Praise" or whatever it is under the messages.tbl, for the time being, until something decent gets put together voice wise.
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Well you wouldn't add the messages to FS2. It would only be mods and TC's who got to take advantage of this change.
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Crap, completely forgot about this one. Will give a whirl tomorrow. :lol:
@kara: would it be possible to implement death screams for capital ships too? The whole framework is already in place for pilot deaths.
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@kara: would it be possible to implement death screams for capital ships too? The whole framework is already in place for pilot deaths.
Wouldn't that require specific warship personae? Also, there might be conflicts between those messages and the ones set in FRED.
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@kara: would it be possible to implement death screams for capital ships too? The whole framework is already in place for pilot deaths.
Mobius is pretty much correct about the reason why you can't do it via personae, we'd need to add them for capships and unlike fighters I've always felt that capships messages really should require a FREDder's touch.
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Unlike what Mobius suggested, death screams, as they are implemented now, have to be enabled (or completely disabled) by the FREDer by setting the appropriate flag in ship properties ("always scream on death" and "no death screams").
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All the flags actually do is affect the path through the game logic so that it decides whether or not to play the death scream that is part of the persona.
Now you might be able to get away with recording the scream and adding a persona with just that to your large ship. I scanned through the code quickly and as far as I can tell if the WCS flag is turned on the only reason large ships aren't screaming is simply because you haven't included a message.tbl entry for them.
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You'd still have personae to deal with, anyway. Not to forget that ships' COs should be more various than pilots in terms of age, sex, rank and so on.
I think a version of send-message that ignores the death of a ship would be good. In case of death, the message's audio is usually interrupted and the message source becomes invalid - fixing these two problems would do the trick, I guess.
I'm not Karajorma, anyway, so I wouldn't know. ;)
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Or just send the message from #Shipname instead of Shipname.
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In that case, however, the HUD indicator will not point to the ship that is sending the message. This is a minor glitch, anyway.
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Kara, which tbl's did you work on to modify built-ins?
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Messages.tbl
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Messages.tbl
Okay, I'll take a look at those
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Maybe I'm a bit late, but here are my two cents:
As suggested before, bombing run messages. I always wanted to FRED a mission with a bomber wing that goes out of subspace, announces locking a target and then fires the bombs while announcing the event. What can i say, bombers lack personality :)
Now that would be too complicated to make generic, so hear this:
A bomber wing only announces it's first bomb fired since entering the level, because after that the bomber go into what i see more or less as a dogfight with capital ship, and individual bomb launch messages are pointless.
But if so, the bombers will "cease to exist" again, so why not give a very low chance of another bombing run message (10%? less?) for each bomb fired. And space the messages apart 45-60 seconds minimum between two bombing run messages so they won't clutter the hud.
LE:
@Aardwolf: Fixed it. Didn't thought it would cause confusion.
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Please don't needlessly edit the subject line... it just creates confusion.
Interesting idea tho...
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Hmmmm, A lot of people seem to want bombing run messages. I'll look into it then.
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Could it be made more general then that. Instead of just bombing messages a trigger defined by secondary types. Then you could have different messages for things like Stilettos, Cycs, Helios, and Trebs in FS2 and whatever fits the weapon type for other mods.
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Unfortunately, the more diverse the types of messages that get requested, the more likely someone is just gonna say "do it all with scripting". The other option would be an entirely new table, like msg_defs.tbl or something.
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Could it be made more general then that. Instead of just bombing messages a trigger defined by secondary types. Then you could have different messages for things like Stilettos, Cycs, Helios, and Trebs in FS2 and whatever fits the weapon type for other mods.
As I see it, player-flyable ships are divided into two distinct categories: fighters and bombers.
The generic messages fits just perfect for fighters. And if a wingman congratulates you for a kill or just boasts himself/herself for one, does it really matter with what type of weapon the kill was scored? When a missile is fired, the time delay between the launch and the impact (or miss) is very small. I'd say that during dogfights, the message might not even end playing before the same wingman scores a kill... hence a possible new message.
Bombers, on the other hand, are a different matter. They are big, fat, juicy targets, and they pack a punch. Bombers are a priority when present on the battlefield, either friendly or hostile. So why not pointing out their actions with a couple of messages.
Combined with the new boast messages, this will increase the "battlefield" feel of the game.
While on the bomber topic, I have another suggestion:
A new message (from one of your wingmans) that plays when a enemy bomber fires on a ship on your escort list (with the same restrictions as stated above for the friendly bombers).
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I was just going along the lines it might be nice to hear a bomber say "Launching Torpedoes" when firing Trebes. Otherwise you might end up with messages that don't make sense depending on the loadout.
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An example of this is the Oops 1 dialogue. :v: recorded every single pilot shouting something in cases of friendly fire but eventually decided to not use them. When I was solving another issue with built-ins I noticed this and turned them back on. As a result you no longer only hear "Invalid target! Hold your fire!" but also a whole host of new messages which didn't play in retail.
I know this is from a few months ago, but I just wanted to add my two cents. Would it be possible to fix the 'Engage Enemy' and 'Ignore Target' messages too? I don't think 'Ignore Target' plays at all, and 'Engage Enemy', weirdly, only plays when there are no hostiles present. Also, does 'Traitor' play for wingmen, or just Command?
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I'll take a look at both of those two then.
Traitor does indeed play for both wingmen and command.
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On a related note, has anyone noticed that sometimes the Terran Support Ship messages don't play, and that the rearming complete messages refuse to play at all?
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Hmmmmm. Someone should start sticking these issues into Mantis.
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*Remembers his Mantis account activation email finally came.*
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:bump:
Sorry for trespassing ;), is there anything new on this end?
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What do you mean? I've fixed that last bug and implemented some of the new messages already.
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I know that some of them are already implemented. I was wondering about the status of bombing run built in messages
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I've been toying with the idea of overhauling the entire builtin messages system so that you could choose the messages that would be sent on a ship by ship basis. Until I decide if that is a go-no go I really don't want to touch something like the bombing messages as that would really increase the amount of chatter in a mission.
Bear in mind that the tools exist to allow any competent FREDder to add them manually anyway.
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*kkmic is satisfied