Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The Modding Workshop => Topic started by: TrashMan on March 22, 2002, 03:31:13 am

Title: About models and skins
Post by: TrashMan on March 22, 2002, 03:31:13 am
hello there!
I'm new to this site, and modding alltogether, however I'm really good at making low-polygon 3D models.
Due to the fact that I like Freespace, I wanted to start modding.
I don't know much yet, but I'm learning.

What I really don't know is how to make good skins.
If anyone is interested, I'll send him several of my FS models (a Battleship, fighter, space station, and several other vessels), for him to make skins and/or complete mod-s.

On large ships (like destroyers), should I make the model without turrets ( they are not attached, but are individual objects)?

Thanx
Title: About models and skins
Post by: aldo_14 on March 22, 2002, 05:18:43 am
Yep.  Make the destroyer hull seperately.  Turrets are seperate objects, as are any physical susbsytems - like radar dishes, etc - that rotate are you want to be able to destroy (without blowing up the whole ship).
Title: You'll see
Post by: TrashMan on March 25, 2002, 04:57:18 am
Thanx! The model I'm talking abot is a 5,8 km long Battleship with over 150 turrets. When finished (I'll post a pic. here) it should have abot 8000-9000 polygons. Is that too much? Too litle?
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on March 25, 2002, 05:10:46 am
woot, I think there's a limit of about 90 or 100 subobjects (turrets, lods, debris included), so you can forget 60 of your turrets :)
for the polycount, the max limit is around 10000 polys for the pof, and a maximum of about 800 for each subobject.
Never use intersecting polys, you can't use either 2-sided polys.
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Styxx on March 25, 2002, 08:26:50 am
And remember, always make the hull out of a single object! ;)
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on March 25, 2002, 11:17:26 am
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx
And remember, always make the hull out of a single object! ;)

mmh, actually, many OTT capships use two objects( hey, when you have more than 900 polys per ship, you have no choice :p), and there was never any pb with that, I really don't understand what the pb is with that :confused:
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Unknown Target on March 25, 2002, 11:58:22 am
Sorry, you can only make a ship with a max of 60 turrets to be used in FS or FS2:(
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on March 25, 2002, 12:57:34 pm
that's not true :) I have ships with 74 turrets :p
Title: About models and skins
Post by: StratComm on March 25, 2002, 03:15:50 pm
Quote
woot, I think there's a limit of about 90 or 100 subobjects (turrets, lods, debris included), so you can forget 60 of your turrets
for the polycount, the max limit is around 10000 polys for the pof, and a maximum of about 800 for each subobject.
Never use intersecting polys, you can't use either 2-sided polys.


Probably 100.  Seems to me the Colossus has 80 turrets, a dozen or more radar dishes, and at least three debris pieces and four LODs.  That makes 99 subobjects.
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Styxx on March 25, 2002, 03:40:39 pm
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506
mmh, actually, many OTT capships use two objects( hey, when you have more than 900 polys per ship, you have no choice :p), and there was never any pb with that, I really don't understand what the pb is with that :confused:



Lemme correct myself. Always make each subobject out of a single object. ;)
Title: hmmmm
Post by: TrashMan on March 26, 2002, 05:52:34 am
Oh, well...
I'll have to reduce the turret number. Bumer.
The 3D model should be finished by the end of this week (I use Truespace 4,2 and 3D max 3). Like I said, the model isn't the problem, but the skin is.
I'll also post my campaign ideas (feel free to steal), and new weapons.
Title: campaign
Post by: TrashMan on March 26, 2002, 06:26:47 am
I'm thinking on making a campaign  that takes place after the second Great War.
There should be at least 1 new species.
New weapons include:
- gatling laser cannon
- prometheus H turret (cap only)
- Ion cannon x2 (cap only)
- meson missile launcher (cap only)
And more...

I'll post everything here in time to come.
Fell free to steal everything. I'd rather that someone else makes the mod, then that is never done.
If anyone is interested in making a new campaign, or will incorporate some of my models (when they are done) et me know.
Title: Lod?
Post by: TrashMan on March 26, 2002, 11:11:21 am
Are you sure that 100 is the limit?
Debris I can understand, but what does LOD stand for?
Title: About models and skins
Post by: CP5670 on March 26, 2002, 11:41:39 am
Just counted the submodels on the Colossus (which has more than any other ship); it has exactly 90, so the limit would be higher than that. ;)

Also, the primary ship submodel is called "SouperDupera." Maybe someone at Volition likes soup... :D
Title: Re: Lod?
Post by: Nico on March 26, 2002, 12:01:01 pm
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
Are you sure that 100 is the limit?
Debris I can understand, but what does LOD stand for?


LOD= level of detail, models with lower polycount displayed by the game when the ship is far away to easy the CPU work.
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Reaper on March 26, 2002, 12:49:59 pm
Another usless post :D  sorry about it :D

 TrashMan!! Kako kaj hrvatska? Šta delaš i pogledaj tole (http://kissifrot2605.free.fr/) i reci èe želiš zraven, rabim nekoga da mi pomaga sa modeli. Ja sam iz Slovenije i neznam tako dobro hrvatsko:(. :D
Title: campaign
Post by: Star Dragon on March 26, 2002, 01:59:22 pm
Hiya Trashman...

      I like to FRED so if you got an idea of how you want your mod scripted I would like to try it (for the experience).
I am getting my feet wet with the RbotechMod and so far have recreated 3 missions (I've planned on a 18 mission campaign).
So that is my level of skill :)

   You're more of a modeler? I'd like to learn myself cause I eventually want to try something called The Open Mod Project (TOMP). Basically it would have 2 aspects. First for the purests TC mods. Second data packs from those mods that contain the highlights for easy incorporation into custom mods or an "official release".

   In short cause of the text limit in the table files I was thinking of only 3 or 4 of each type ship in a release from each current mod.

ie. X-wing,TieF,A-wing,TieB,SSD,RbCRu,Ishuttle. for Star Wars

Star Trek would have 3 0r 4 of the cap ships. Kling/Rom/Fed/

  That way hopefully it would make it easier to do custom stuff and also have one big mod that can keep being added to for teh ultimate enjoyment

 Fed vs. Empire
 Shadows vs. SDF3
 Argo against everyone...

   What do you think?
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on March 26, 2002, 02:22:08 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Infested_Larva
Another usless post :D  sorry about it :D

 TrashMan!! Kako kaj hrvatska? Šta delaš i pogledaj tole (http://kissifrot2605.free.fr/) i reci èe želiš zraven, rabim nekoga da mi pomaga sa modeli. Ja sam iz Slovenije i neznam tako dobro hrvatsko:(. :D


Ouais, ben alors ça mon pôte t'aurais pu éviter, hein, c'est pas moi qui posterait dans ma langue natale, ça non alors, alors tu devrais avoir honte!
:D
nah, I can do that too ;7
Title: Not bad
Post by: TrashMan on March 27, 2002, 03:43:29 am
TO INFESTED LARVA-Not bad. When(if)  I put my models, feel free to use them in you campaign.

TO AVERYONE ELSE - has anyone actually tried to put more than 100 subobjects!? Well?
 And ALL my models have a small polycount and still look great! I have allso created lots of FRED2 missions, out of fun, and they are all pretty complex and fun, with lots of events (min. 50).
Title: Re: Not bad
Post by: Woomeister on March 27, 2002, 03:51:41 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
has anyone actually tried to put more than 100 subobjects!? Well?

Yeah, I was the one who found there was a limit :)
Title: Re: Re: Not bad
Post by: Nico on March 27, 2002, 07:08:09 am
Quote
Originally posted by Woomeister

Yeah, I was the one who found there was a limit :)


actually no, Killmenow figured it out first when doing his ( hey, what a coincidence :rolleyes: ) ISD.
Title: How many?
Post by: TrashMan on March 28, 2002, 02:10:16 am
How many low-poly LOD models do I have to make? 1, 2, 3?
For close, medium and far away?
I'll have to do only the hull, right?
Or do I have to make LOD models for turrets too?
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Bobboau on March 28, 2002, 03:17:23 am
you can do the turrets but it would be kinda counter productive to need them in all LODs, just do the realy big ones (note turrets that are in more than LOD0 need to have there names ending in a for LOD0, b for LOD1, c for LOD2, ect...) you should have four LOD0 (the main one with full detains),
LOD1 (poly choped some small details, remove most of the small turrets),
LOD2 (probly only about 200 poly here at most, not turrets unless it's huge, spinning subobjects should be gone after here),
and LOD3 (a box or triangle)

if you want to make more go ahead, but this is how I do it,
oh and make it out of one subobject... or else :D (im asuming you doing this right and not throughing fourty or so primitives or spline objects together into a nonseemless mesh, there's been an upsurge in that sort of thing lately)
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Setekh on March 28, 2002, 05:24:15 am
Manners, guys? Welcome to HLP, trashman; good to have you here. :nod::yes:
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Raven2001 on March 28, 2002, 10:16:00 am
Quote
Originally posted by venom2506


Ouais, ben alors ça mon pôte t'aurais pu éviter, hein, c'est pas moi qui posterait dans ma langue natale, ça non alors, alors tu devrais avoir honte!
:D
nah, I can do that too ;7


Yah... não me digas, eu tambem sei falar portugues e tu nem por isso :D Quando quiseres eu ensino-te a falar... :)  :ha:

Styxx: DON'T even say a WORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
Title: so
Post by: TrashMan on March 29, 2002, 12:51:39 am
So, three models for the hull, and two for large turrets.
How many debris should I have?
What abot fighters - they need LODs too, but I guess two would be enough.
Bombers and their turrets are allso seperate?
Can they have more than two turrets?
Title: feast your eyes
Post by: TrashMan on April 02, 2002, 04:15:38 am

O.k. the battleship's hull has about 430 (or was it 340?) polys.
I'll check that.

B.t.w. - Infested Larva, the story is good, except for one starange part; - why the hell would the GTVA want to rebuild the node to Gamma Draconis, they know the Shivans are there!?(http://www.inet.hr/~tstanici/Imagees/GTVBS_Paladin1.jpg)
Title: Here's more
Post by: TrashMan on April 02, 2002, 04:24:57 am
(http://www.inet.hr/~tstanici/Images/Fleet.jpg)

The GTVBS -  Battleship Paladin(I wanted to call it Apocalypse, but I saw that there are allready ships with that name), the military science vessel Galileo, a wing of Phoenix adv. heavy fighters and a Washington class freighter
(http://www.inet.hr/~tstanici/Images/Fleet2.jpg)
Just a test picture
Title: hmmm
Post by: TrashMan on April 02, 2002, 04:28:15 am
What do you think of the following names:
- Archangel
- Valiant
- Valour
- Avenger
- Vanguard
- Titan
- Paladin
- Claymore
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Odyssey on April 02, 2002, 06:25:40 am
You know, it really made me wonder why my floppy disk drive was churning, until I saw the image locations.
TrashMan, you need to get the images on a webserver before any of us can see them. The simplest way to do that is to Private Message any of the moderators here, and kindly ask them to host the images on HLP webspace. :nod:
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on April 02, 2002, 06:33:28 am
Quote
Originally posted by Odyssey
You know, it really made me wonder why my floppy disk drive was churning, until I saw the image locations.
TrashMan, you need to get the images on a webserver before any of us can see them. The simplest way to do that is to Private Message any of the moderators here, and kindly ask them to host the images on HLP webspace. :nod:


lol yeah, I wondered why too :D
I was about to kick my poor laptop again :p
Title: It's fixed
Post by: TrashMan on April 03, 2002, 04:19:45 am
Look now and tell me what you think!;7
I'll post other pictures, as soon as I finish making models of:
- Thunderbolt strike bomber
- Whirlwind Corvette
- Protector Cruiser (aaf)
- Unnamed race fighter (does Hygarii sound good)
- Unnamed race Bomber
- Terran Starbase (Vanguard)
- Shivan Destroyer (or Juggernout, I'll have to see)
Title: hrm....
Post by: TrashMan on April 03, 2002, 05:31:05 am
Thank you all for your help.
I still haven't got an answer on the question about turrets and bombers.
How do you animate the turret (it's barrels)?

Thanks for the offer Star Dragon, I may take you up on your word.
I'll write the main stroy of the campaign and put it on my homepage (don't laugh when you see it, I didn't even try to make it look noce, it's only a test page), and post the message here when I'm done (with the link). It might take a while, I have lots of exams coming up.
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on April 03, 2002, 07:04:17 am
woah, looks neat! those ships designs reminds me of my own for OS ( "sob" ). two thumbs up :)
( tho don't expect to have all this pretty lighting effects ingame ;) no specular map hehe )
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on April 03, 2002, 07:07:29 am
mmh, about lods, 2 are sure enough, but then they would better have a very low polycount. I always make the 3 lods anyway, coz Lod1 has to still look pretty good -as you see it in the targetting window- and lod3 can be as basic as a cube, so...
for bombers, yeah, you have to make the turrets subobjects and glue them, just like for a capship.
Don't quote me on that, but I think there's no turret limit for bombers ( well, save for the subobject limit of course)
Title: About models and skins
Post by: WMCoolmon on April 03, 2002, 06:57:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh
Manners, guys? Welcome to HLP, trashman; good to have you here. :nod::yes:

Yessir.
(http://members.cox.net/wmcoolmon/images/welcome.gif)
:D Looking very good there, btw :eek::eek2:;7
Title: yessss
Post by: TrashMan on April 04, 2002, 01:25:54 am
Glad you like it.
I'll be finished with the lods soon. Can anyone make the skin for it (I'll even send him the textue I used in TS)?
Title: well
Post by: TrashMan on April 04, 2002, 07:01:57 am
The two models that are allmost ready(for texturing) are the GTVBS Paladin and the GTF Black Phoenix.
Anyone interested?:confused:
Title: About models and skins
Post by: MeatPie on April 04, 2002, 09:15:44 am
I'm guessing 2 LODs for a fighter would be enough? 1 with fewer polys and the second just a triangle should do.

What about the engine flames?  That would be a subobject glued to the hull right?

And can someone please explain this stuff about hierarchies? thanks
Title: abot the debris
Post by: TrashMan on April 05, 2002, 02:46:57 am
:confused:  How many debris parts should I make.
How detailed should they be, and do they have to fit in like a puzzle ( put three peaces together and you have the original ship).
And what about putting turrets on the debris?
C'mon guys, talk to me.
Title: aaaaaaaa
Post by: TrashMan on April 06, 2002, 05:08:26 am
:mad: Gimme some answers!:sigh:
How can I finish my ships if I dont know how to do it?!
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Sesquipedalian on April 06, 2002, 09:09:32 am
The debris pieces don't need to account for the whole original model.  Just pick a few sections and do them.  Three ought to be plenty.  I wouldn't bother with turrets on the debris; if it has just been blown up, it's not going to be shooting.
Title: lods?
Post by: TrashMan on April 08, 2002, 03:57:44 am
On Lods with less detail I should remove the small turrets, right.
How does the ship fire then. Do I put just  a local light named turretxx on the spot where the turret should be?
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Kamikaze on April 08, 2002, 04:02:33 am
Hmmm, those ships look nice. a :yes: to you (though I can't help ya with any modeling technique - sorry :p)
Title: Re: lods?
Post by: Nico on April 08, 2002, 06:29:21 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
On Lods with less detail I should remove the small turrets, right.
How does the ship fire then. Do I put just  a local light named turretxx on the spot where the turret should be?


no, don't worry, all that stuff will be based on the main lod data.
Title: About models and skins
Post by: TrashMan on April 08, 2002, 06:57:13 am
But on LOD 2 I still have to place the big turrets, right?

My webpage with few additional models is up.http://inet.hr/~tstanici (http://inet.hr/~tstanici)
Check it out.
And, Infested Larva, check the stroy (Istll havent decided on the campaign's name)
Title: About models and skins
Post by: Nico on April 08, 2002, 07:21:34 am
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
But on LOD 2 I still have to place the big turrets, right?



you don't HAVE to, you can, that's different. when thy're very big, it's better to place them coz you might see them from the distance. Sometimes I put them, sometimes I just can't bother actually...
Title: hey
Post by: TrashMan on April 09, 2002, 06:31:16 am
Let's see if I got this right:
LOD 0 - full detail, all turrets, best textures
LOD 1 - The samy polycount, medium textures, and only big turrets
LOD 3 - less polys, poor textures, and no turrets
LOD 4 - a cube or something like that.

And three or four debris parts, low detail, poor textures, no turrets

Right?

And what about engine flames on fighters?
Title: hey
Post by: TrashMan on April 09, 2002, 06:32:42 am
Let's see if I got this right:
LOD 0 - full detail, all turrets, best textures
LOD 1 - The samy polycount, medium textures, and only big turrets
LOD 3 - less polys, poor textures, and no turrets
LOD 4 - a cube or something like that.

And three or four debris parts, low detail, poor textures, no turrets

Right?

And what about engine flames on fighters? They are subobject that have to be glued?
And check this out!
gammadraconis (http://www.inet.hr/~tstanici/)
Title: SORRY
Post by: TrashMan on April 09, 2002, 12:46:18 pm
Ups, I did it again.
I fixed the link, visit the page now and tell me what you think!