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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: JediMasterTim on April 11, 2009, 06:30:58 pm

Title: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: JediMasterTim on April 11, 2009, 06:30:58 pm
I was playing Silent Threat Reborn today when something new happened to me.  I had just finished rearming when something hit me (I'm not sure what) and completely killed my engines.  I thought, "No big deal, the support ship is right near me", but it was disabled too!

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3250/disabled.png (http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3250/disabled.png)

I was destroyed pretty quickly, but I'm curious.  Is there any way I could have gotten out of this?
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: General Battuta on April 11, 2009, 06:32:25 pm
Were you listening to the message traffic at all?

That should explain everything.

Next time you replay, let me give you a hint -- take your wingman's suggestion right away!
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: The E on April 11, 2009, 06:33:16 pm
Did your wingmen tell you to jump away, RIGHT NOW??? You probably should have, even if it doesn't show a directive to that effect.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: JediMasterTim on April 11, 2009, 06:47:12 pm
Oh, so this was scripted?  That's kind of a mean trick after a long mission like this.  Having a wingman just recommend getting out of there doesn't seem strong enough of a warning.

But anyway, my original question still stands.  If both are disabled in ANY mission, is there any way out of the situation.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: The E on April 11, 2009, 06:52:41 pm
No. If they are disabled, escaping won't work, IIRC. In that specific mission, there should be a few comments from your wingmen before that event (Something like "Hey, has anyone heard from Command in the past 10 Minutes?", which is meant as an indication that something fishy is going on.)
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: SypheDMar on April 11, 2009, 06:54:37 pm
That's kind of a mean trick after a long mission like this.  Having a wingman just recommend getting out of there doesn't seem strong enough of a warning.
I know.

Quote
But anyway, my original question still stands.  If both are disabled in ANY mission, is there any way out of the situation.
Summon another Support ship if it explodes before you do.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Pred the Penguin on April 11, 2009, 07:19:21 pm
Why don't you just destroy it yourself? XD
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: General Battuta on April 11, 2009, 07:25:06 pm
Why don't you just destroy it yourself? XD

Um, because his engines are disabled?
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Pred the Penguin on April 11, 2009, 07:31:56 pm
You can't turn when you're disabled? Completely forgot about that...
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Dilmah G on April 11, 2009, 07:37:25 pm
Tell the Support ship to depart and call in a new one while maxxing your shields out...haven't tried it but it would be interesting to watch
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Aardwolf on April 11, 2009, 08:29:04 pm
How can the support ship depart if it's disabled? (Actually in FS1 I think there were some weird cases where disabled ships could depart, and I think one of the tables now sort of emulates that, ai.tbl or ai_profiles.tbl I think. Not sure which is which any more.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Dilmah G on April 11, 2009, 08:29:46 pm
How can the support ship depart if it's disabled? (Actually in FS1 I think there were some weird cases where disabled ships could depart, and I think one of the tables now sort of emulates that, ai.tbl or ai_profiles.tbl I think. Not sure which is which any more.

Oh True....My Bad
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Rodo on April 11, 2009, 08:52:28 pm
I replayed that mission twice... the first time I was expecting a directive of some kind or a more "reliable" source of objectives to tell me to jump away.

the second time around I was already prepared but even so I just tried to stay back and see if I could actually escape the dissabling attack some way.... disappointing I could not even see who dissabled me (guessing a sexp?)... the bad thing is that I pressed Alt + J right before dying and I appeared on the next mission without engines and with 5% hull.... what a unlucky day for alpha 1 :S

just jump away, you'll be fine after that ^^
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 12, 2009, 02:23:49 am
Bah. Getting disabled in that mission is not even the worst thing to happen. It sucked more to realize that in the original release jumping out wasn't required for ending the mission; all you had to do was to hit Alt-J. The next mission proved to be quite challenging without engines and support ships.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: ReeNoiP on April 12, 2009, 09:29:52 am
Aren't your comms also destroyed if you don't jump out? Meaning you can't even call the support ship.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Jeff Vader on April 12, 2009, 09:34:20 am
No. Or at least wasn't when I played. Only the engines.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Dilmah G on April 12, 2009, 09:35:01 am
No. Or at least wasn't when I played. Only the engines.

Yeah, that's what I remember.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Rodo on April 12, 2009, 11:15:18 am
never mind, you can call a support ship even without comms available.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Rhymes on April 12, 2009, 11:16:26 am
Yeah, that's so you can fix your ship.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: TrashMan on April 12, 2009, 11:16:46 am
HEhe...I had to replay that mission cause I didn't jump out in time. :p
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Rodo on April 12, 2009, 11:18:27 am
yeah.. you send smoke signs to the support ship on the other side of the subspace node :P
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Dilmah G on April 13, 2009, 10:20:01 pm
As if the EMP didn't do the job well enough
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: K515 on April 14, 2009, 10:53:30 am
Perhaps use your cheat codes?
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 14, 2009, 11:03:14 am
Since this thread is still active, request move to the Silent Threat: Reborn thread?

K515, there is no cheat to restore hull integrity.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Polpolion on April 14, 2009, 08:42:00 pm
Were you listening to the message traffic at all?

That should explain everything.

Next time you replay, let me give you a hint -- take your wingman's suggestion right away!

Take orders from your wingmen? You're their superior officer! They don't have the authority to let you RTB!  :p
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: General Battuta on April 14, 2009, 09:15:10 pm
That's probably why I definitely didn't jump out my first time. Fear of the AWOL debriefing.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Goober5000 on April 14, 2009, 09:38:20 pm
That's why the wingmen made a suggestion, not an order, and left it up to the superior officer to make the decision. :p
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Rhymes on April 15, 2009, 03:26:47 pm
That's why the wingmen made a suggestion, not an order, and left it up to the superior officer to make the decision. :p

Read: They left it that way so you'd fall for it and get destroyed at least once. :nod:
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Mobius on April 15, 2009, 03:32:54 pm
Same thing here - I feared the AWOL debriefing mainly because I got many kills during the mission and I didn't want to lose my achievements. :nervous:

No offense, but I think there should have been more emphasis on the wingman's voice...
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: General Battuta on April 15, 2009, 03:42:37 pm
I think most pilots probably would've died there, so in that sense it was realistic. It did a good job of making the GTI look competent.

It was a bit frustrating from a player's POV, but hey...sacrifices.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Mobius on April 15, 2009, 04:06:18 pm
Most pilots would have escaped. It's the players who have problems about that. :nervous:
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: General Battuta on April 15, 2009, 06:12:02 pm
I've never seen a friendly pilot jump out without orders...
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Rhymes on April 15, 2009, 06:43:26 pm
*cough*SECRETS REBORN?!!*cough*   :nod:
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: ssmit132 on April 15, 2009, 09:28:32 pm
They weren't exactly friendly anymore, though.

Although one thing I didn't understand was what Zeta 1 was talking about when he said that "They didn't mention any of this in the briefing."
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Goober5000 on April 16, 2009, 12:21:09 am
Although one thing I didn't understand was what Zeta 1 was talking about when he said that "They didn't mention any of this in the briefing."
Yeah, I could have written that line better.  The idea is that Zeta 1's briefing presented the mission as fairly cut-and-dry: these are bad guys, go blow up their installation.  (Keep in mind that Zeta and Omicron are standard GTA pilots, so they don't have the benefit of the player's missions with GTI.)  Problem is, the Jotunheim commander raised all sorts of issues that cast the situation in a very different light: the precarious situation of the GTA military, the uncertain nature of the Terran-Vasudan cease-fire, the existence of a "prototype" capable of winning the Terran-Vasudan war, etc.  The pilot realizes they've got a point (at least from his perspective) and decides that Jotunheim is better qualified to give orders than Command.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 16, 2009, 01:03:52 am
Same thing here - I feared the AWOL debriefing mainly because I got many kills during the mission and I didn't want to lose my achievements. :nervous:

No offense, but I think there should have been more emphasis on the wingman's voice...


I always felt that adding a new directive titled "Jump?" would be appropriate.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Dilmah G on April 16, 2009, 01:29:56 am
I would agree that'd be a good move
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Goober5000 on April 16, 2009, 02:05:45 am
That sort of makes the decision for you though.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: ssmit132 on April 16, 2009, 05:46:08 am
The idea is that Zeta 1's briefing presented the mission as fairly cut-and-dry: these are bad guys, go blow up their installation.  (Keep in mind that Zeta and Omicron are standard GTA pilots, so they don't have the benefit of the player's missions with GTI.)  Problem is, the Jotunheim commander raised all sorts of issues that cast the situation in a very different light: the precarious situation of the GTA military, the uncertain nature of the Terran-Vasudan cease-fire, the existence of a "prototype" capable of winning the Terran-Vasudan war, etc.  The pilot realizes they've got a point (at least from his perspective) and decides that Jotunheim is better qualified to give orders than Command.
Ah. I had an inkling it meant that.

That sort of makes the decision for you though.
Not partcularly; this is probably a bad example, but in JAD2 you got a directive to destroy the NTSC Pal, when you shouldn't. However, Command is portrayed as an idiot in JAD2.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Commander Zane on April 16, 2009, 05:50:04 am
And the Pal ends up destroyed regardless of whether or not you do...
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: ssmit132 on April 16, 2009, 06:44:12 am
Spoiler:
No, it jumps out if you don't destroy it and the campaign ends. In fact, you can skip the whole "fight with FRED" part if you let it depart the first time.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Commander Zane on April 16, 2009, 07:43:02 am
Last time I left it alone Alpha (Or Beta?) 2 destroyed it for me.
Title: Re: Unwinnable Situation
Post by: Androgeos Exeunt on April 16, 2009, 09:01:34 am
Kill him. He's a zombie. Tell your other wingman to ignore the NTSC Pal.